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story category $700 Billion Would Buy A Lot Of Fiber
Actually it would wire every single home, and a whole lot more...
(old news - 06:21PM Thursday Oct 02 2008)
tags: coverage · business · Op/Ed
Cable Digital News finds a bit of irony in the fact that analysts from the same firms who often criticize ISPs for high "homes passed" financial numbers are now taking a $700 billion bailout to save them from their own, overly clever book-keeping. Crunching the numbers, writer Michael Harris notes that $700 billion could deliver fiber to the home to every single American, with enough money left over to outfit half of all homes for solar electricity.

Ok, sure, it's an apple to orangutan comparison -- and perhaps not valid because you're talking about saving the economy versus providing what many people consider a luxury service. Still, it's ironic to see skeptical analysts with their hands outstretched, eager for a deal they'd never approve were they objectively critiquing a telecom operator:
Like most industry analysts, I've sat in on countless earnings calls for cable MSOs and their infrastructure suppliers over the past decade. We've all listened to managers from famed Wall Street institutions like Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc. , Lehman Brothers , Goldman Sachs & Co. , Credit Suisse , and UBS AG chide MSOs for their debt ratios, continuing capital investment requirements, and challenging competitive prospects.
In broadband land, the bailout is akin to a $6,250 per home passed upgrade, a number that would make most analysts pass out (and should). For reference, Verizon's costs per home passed to install FiOS is around a grand -- closer to $2.5k per home if you're picking up the tab for homes passed that don't subscribe to service. Those numbers have driven some analysts to argue that Verizon has gone mad, spending with reckless abandon in order to future-proof their network in the face of cable competition.

One wonders how oft-quoted Sanford C. Bernstein analyst Craig Moffett, who thinks even cheap network upgrades are ridiculous and unnecessary, would feel about a $6,250/home investment that may or may not actually work -- if the money belonged to an ISP and not United States taxpayers?

Related:
  1. If Microsoft Supports Broadband, Why Support Connected Nation?
  2. Here Comes The Connected Nation Sales Pitch
  3. U.S. Still Fifteenth In Broadband Penetration
  4. Verizon Threatens Massachusetts
  5. FCC Issues Rural Broadband Report
  6. Verizon Continues Proud History Of Denial
  7. 'New' FCC, Same Regulatory Rubber Stamp For CenturyLink
  8. FCC Greenlights Centurytel/Embarq With Wimpy Conditions
Forums » $700 Billion Would Buy A Lot Of Fiber
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Matt
Quitting Caffeine - Argh
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Oh no, here it comes ....

.... puke .....

Ok, I feel better now.
Core0000
Premium
join:2008-05-04
Somerset, KY

Re: Oh no, here it comes ....

Haha.. I'm with you man. Although it didn't really make me feel any better.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS

You do realize they're not SPENDING $700B. They're buying $700B in interest paying assets, by issuing debt with a lower interest rate. The trick is weather they get the credit risk right or not. IMO they won't, but that won't result in losses for 5-10 years anyway.
Ulmo

join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET

Re: Oh no, here it comes ....

said by Ahrenl See Profile :

You do realize they're not SPENDING $700B. They're buying $700B in interest paying assets, by issuing debt with a lower interest rate. The trick is weather they get the credit risk right or not. IMO they won't, but that won't result in losses for 5-10 years anyway.
Don't get me wrong: that they owe us is better than they not owing us. But, from what I understand, this is undercollateralized debt, so it is bad debt, and shouldn't be loaned. I don't want to dig up a bunch of vials of creamated remains of baby boomers who sent all my money to China and yell at them that they still owe me; I'd rather not give them the money in the first place.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS

Re: Oh no, here it comes ....

It's whatever debt they purchase. There's very little "undercollateralized debt", as you put it, that hasn't already been written off, as there wasn't a whole lot of it to begin with. Regardless, buying it at less than the hold-to-maturity value (especially if it is properly written off) protects the investor from this.

The biggest problem is with ALL debt regardless of it's creditworthiness. This being priced at implied default rates implying 2 of every 3 americans will file bankruptcy is what is sinking financial firms. Generally banks, insurance companies, and other related firms will hold large amounts of debt (assets is what is usually called) that is deemed very safe, and still is. But when half the buyers in that market are vaporized, and those that are left have their capital drastically haircut, there is no where for the price of these assets to go but down, as there are NO buyers.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Yawn

Yep, and a gazillion stolen from taxpayers would turn the universe into a utopia. Let's just shackle ourselves to our jobs right now and just endorse our paychecks to Pelosi's politburo so the bliss can start today.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

$700 billion could also...

1. Repair or replace a good portion, if not most, of the structurally deficient bridges and roadways in the US

2. Help halt and reverse coastal erosion and wetlands loss in states like Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and other areas.

3. Could build Category 5 hurricane protection in areas line Southeast and Southwestern Louisiana, Florida, Texas and other vulnerable areas.

4. It would be MORE than enough to overhaul the deplorable state of health care and mental health services that Veterans and former armed services members get by overhauling the VA and modernizing the facilities.

The list goes on.
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.
dcurrey

join:2004-06-29

Re: $700 billion could also...

Amazing how the government can't fix roads properly fund schools. Yet suddenly we got plenty of money to give away so they can go on and do it again now knowing the government will bail them out. What a crock. What an example to set.

Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Re: $700 billion could also...

But alas, they DON'T have the money. They have to borrow it and pay interest, blowing our already out of control deficit into the stratosphere.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by Dogfather See Profile :

But alas, they DON'T have the money. They have to borrow it and pay interest, blowing our already out of control deficit into the stratosphere.
The government will do what all governments do when they can no longer borrow money.

They will simply print it.
--
"At the moment of conception."
jc100

join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: $700 billion could also...

While devalues the Dollar on the World market, causing massive inflation. Hence the HUGE increases in food prices, oil, and all facets of life in the past 8 years. Bush added 6 trillion to the deficit. It's like the dilemma we're in now. People borrow and don't want to pay back. Doing so means you got bad credit. The U.S. is in so much debt to the world, thanks to Regan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr, our dollar is a laughing stock about now.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by jc100 See Profile :

While devalues the Dollar on the World market, causing massive inflation. Hence the HUGE increases in food prices, oil, and all facets of life in the past 8 years. Bush added 6 trillion to the deficit. It's like the dilemma we're in now. People borrow and don't want to pay back. Doing so means you got bad credit. The U.S. is in so much debt to the world, thanks to Regan, Bush Sr, and Bush Jr, our dollar is a laughing stock about now.
Yeah, and the Democratic controlled house and senate are pushing hard to spend even more to bail their buddies out. Can't win for losing when you are where we are.

The Dems will push the bill through, which has more pork in it now than a pig farm to bribe all the bodies in the house and senate who are up for election, and Bush will eagerly sign it to say that he did something when in reality the problem could have and should have been solved by the legislative branch a couple of years ago. But, hind sight is 20/20, and politicians have rose colored glasses on that have built in holographic projectors so they can ignore reality.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: $700 billion could also...

Democrats tax to pay their way. Republicans Borrow. Taxing pays as you go, but as all politicians do, waste waste waste. Borrowing hurts worse though. It devalues the dollar and raises prices. As anyone can tell you, higher prices are something that stick around. People and companies are not apt to lower things, even if the dollar gets better. Therefore, the Republicans sink us into far worse situations. Not to mention, BLS.Gov shows any time a Republican is in Office, Unemployment SKYROCKETS and the Deficit does too. Don't get me wrong, Democrats suck equally as bad at blowing our money. It's just in such a way it doesn't screw up stuff on a global scale.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by jc100 See Profile :

Democrats tax to pay their way. Republicans Borrow. Taxing pays as you go, but as all politicians do, waste waste waste. Borrowing hurts worse though. It devalues the dollar and raises prices. As anyone can tell you, higher prices are something that stick around. People and companies are not apt to lower things, even if the dollar gets better. Therefore, the Republicans sink us into far worse situations. Not to mention, BLS.Gov shows any time a Republican is in Office, Unemployment SKYROCKETS and the Deficit does too. Don't get me wrong, Democrats suck equally as bad at blowing our money. It's just in such a way it doesn't screw up stuff on a global scale.
Or in other words, both parties wind up raising taxes and putting us deeper in debt. Just the order changes and the method used to get there.

What a choice coming up, a 1/4 slaver, 1/2 white boy, 1/4 foreigner who claims to be what he is not and has done nothing on his own and an old crony type who has done a lot, but nothing that people I know in Arizona who think like I do like.

Wish we had None Of The Above on the ballot. That would be my choice since the rest of the pack looks like a bunch of fruitcakes to me and Biden I did not care for when I lived in Texas (Obama is NOT for change picking him!). The only one I do not know about is Palin, and she either walks on water or makes Obama and McCain look good. Kind of hard to tell since the reporting is so partisan twisted and it seems she has cramped her style spouting McCain's party line.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: $700 billion could also...

Well Palin scares the CRAP out of me. I won't vote for her for all the tea in china. I wish we had OTHER choices between the 2 we got. Being we got 2 choices, I can't give McCain / Palin my vote. I don't much care for Obama and I think Biden is a waste. Being that's basically the rundown, I guess for me it'll be Obama. No 3rd party has won in 120 years. It just doesn't pay to vote for one. Then again, as long as Americans are LAZY and consider the first tues in november (30 percent anyway) their civic duty, it doesn't matter who wins. We are such a lazy bunch of people, that once these idiots get elected, we don't hold them accountable for nothing. Then when things get bad, we whine and go about the same routing every 1-4 years. You'd think we'd learn. We don't.

As for Palin:

Troopergate

Belief that Sex Education is Wrong (prob why her daughter pregnant)

Wanting to fire librarians for REFUSING to ban books while mayor.

Worst of all, while mayor of Wasilla, she enforced a lay that charged women 1000 dollars for rape kits.

She's unconscionable. I hate the other 3 on the list, but she disgusts me.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast


1 edit

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by jc100 See Profile :

Troopergate
So you think cops who taser 10 year old kids, are drunk on the job and make death threats against people should not be fired? Gov. Palin's only fault here was that she didn't have this cop jailed.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Pub···h_threat
said by jc100 See Profile :

Belief that Sex Education is Wrong (prob why her daughter pregnant)
And you know for a fact that her daughter didn't use any form of birth control? No form of birth control, short of spaying or neutering, is 100% effective. The fact remains that had she abstained, she'd not be pregnant. That proves that abstinence works.

Besides, the state of Alaska clearly shows that some schools do require sex education which discusses birth control other than abstinence.

»74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:mOz···=3&gl=us
said by jc100 See Profile :

Wanting to fire librarians for REFUSING to ban books while mayor.
Except that it didn't happen. The librarian quit. Big difference. Besides, local libraries are funded by local taxpayers, why is it wrong for the elected officials to present the will of the people when it comes to stocking certain books at a local library? And what's this nonsense about "banning" books. How can anyone ban a book? If your library doesn't stock a book, there's nothing stopping you from going to a bookstore to get it or ordering it online, which you can do at a library, using their computers.

»www.fightthepalinsmears.com/smea···brarian/
said by jc100 See Profile :

Worst of all, while mayor of Wasilla, she enforced a lay that charged women 1000 dollars for rape kits.
Wrong again. The town of Wasilla, like many local governments, attempted to bill the insurance companies of rape victims for the cost of these kits.

»campaignspot.nationalreview.com/···ZGEwZDk=
--
"At the moment of conception."
Kommie

join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT

said by jc100 See Profile :

Well Palin scares the CRAP out of me. I won't vote for her for all the tea in china. I wish we had OTHER choices between the 2 we got. Being we got 2 choices, I can't give McCain / Palin my vote. I don't much care for Obama and I think Biden is a waste. Being that's basically the rundown, I guess for me it'll be Obama. No 3rd party has won in 120 years. It just doesn't pay to vote for one.
Well maybe its about time you started voting third party. With cynysim like yours and the propaganda that a third party vote is a wasted vote its no wonder we have a shitty system. If everyone in America who dislikes the bailout votes for the third party we might have real change.

But then again not like our vote matters anyway.
Gogo1

join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY

said by jc100 See Profile :

BLS.Gov shows any time a Republican is in Office, Unemployment SKYROCKETS and the Deficit does too. Don't get me wrong, Democrats suck equally as bad at blowing our money. It's just in such a way it doesn't screw up stuff on a global scale.
I think the problem is that the interests of politicians do not align with the interests of the populations/countries as a whole.

The interest of a politician is to get elected in X years time. The interest of a country is to be stable and prosperous over the long term. What a politician needs to do in government to achieve the former, often conflicts with what he needs to do to achieve the later. I wonder which goal these aholes choose.
jc100

join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: $700 billion could also...

Interest for them is how long they can stay in office by feeding us enough lies to get elected. All while doing so, they align themselves with special interest groups who them rape this country blind. Got to love our politics. Crooked as shit, and Americans tolerate it.
Gogo1

join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY

Re: $700 billion could also...

Heh. Its no different in my country.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
I believe the Senate is Republican controlled and they are the ones who wanted the bill redone with tax breaks.
RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by CylonRed See Profile :

I believe the Senate is Republican controlled and they are the ones who wanted the bill redone with tax breaks.
Although Dick Chaney is the Senate President, in reality he is only a tie break vote. The President Pro Tempore (the longest serving senator in the majority party) is the one who handles the day to day work of the Senate.

Majority Leader
Harry Reid
Democrat

President Pro Tempore
Robert C. Byrd
Democrat

Assistant Majority Leader
(Democratic Whip)
Richard Durbin
Democrat

Minority Leader
Mitch McConnell
Republican
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time.

CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy


1 edit

Re: $700 billion could also...

Yet it is the Republicans who pretty much voted down the last bill and there was not enough Democrats in the Senate to override. If the Democrats were truly in power the bill would have passed. The Republican's have pretty much forced the tax breaks thru that the Democrats have generally been against. The Republican's in the Senate forced the House to include measures they did not want in the bill. Hardly the Democrats pulling their power against the President or over the Republican's.

If the Democrats pulled all of the strings - the tax breaks would not be in and the last bill would have passed.

The Republican party in all of the things I have seen - took the accolades with defeating the last bailout package.

EDIT - opps - I see I had my the House and senate mixed up - thinking the Senate defeated the first and second legislation when it was the House...

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: $700 billion could also...

Total BS. The Democrat party has majorities in both houses of Congress. If it wanted to, it could vote for the Wall Street welfare queen plan without a single vote from the GOP.
--
"At the moment of conception."
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
You do realize a vast majority of this problem is the result of the Clinton administration, right?

John Galt
What...me panic??
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
I wonder how much we could get for Taiwan...??
--
A is A

pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom

said by pnh102 See Profile :

The government will do what all governments do when they can no longer borrow money.

They will simply print it.
At the staggering numbers we're talking about, how far away is hyperinflation? What are good hedges?

For those that don't know...
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation
The main cause of hyperinflation is a massive and rapid increase in the amount of money, which is not supported by growth in the output of goods and services.

--
My Site

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: $700 billion could also...

Oh, I know it will be horrible in terms of inflation. I was just making it clear that the government will be printing the money as opposed to borrowing it or redistributing tax revenue.
--
"At the moment of conception."

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS

said by Dogfather See Profile :

But alas, they DON'T have the money. They have to borrow it and pay interest, blowing our already out of control deficit into the stratosphere.
AH, what's to worry about. My kids and their eventual kids should be able to pay it off...

P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Cromwell, CT
clubs:

said by NetAdmin See Profile :

1. Repair or replace a good portion, if not most, of the structurally deficient bridges and roadways in the US

2. Help halt and reverse coastal erosion and wetlands loss in states like Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and other areas.

3. Could build Category 5 hurricane protection in areas line Southeast and Southwestern Louisiana, Florida, Texas and other vulnerable areas.

4. It would be MORE than enough to overhaul the deplorable state of health care and mental health services that Veterans and former armed services members get by overhauling the VA and modernizing the facilities.

The list goes on.
1. blah, should not even cost that much
2. worthless.
3. worthless. no one is paying to protect my house why should i pay to protect yours?
4. blah so much corruption and wasted money..there is already enough in military spending to do this.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by P Ness See Profile :

1. blah, should not even cost that much
There's a lot more out there than you think.

2. worthless.
3. worthless. no one is paying to protect my house why should i pay to protect yours?
Actually, in both cases, the federal government's policies to oil leases and lax environmental regulations regarding wetlands during the oil boom is WHY the problem exists. The federal government should fix something they created.
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.

See 8 replies to this post

sansri88
Go digtal you analog laggards
Premium
join:2005-12-17
Iselin, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

You aren't a civil engineer, are you.

My dad is one. He's worked in the NYC area for 20+ years in the industry.

Many bridges are in terrible shape, and to fix them would require replacement, not rehab. Just look at the deficient Tappan Zee Bridge. $6 billion just to replace the bridge.

The costs are staggering, and are not as cheap as you may think they are.
--
Sriram Satish
Comcast of NJ II sucks. Period.
25 HD channels compared to the average 32 or so.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
1.) I would support that.
2.) Its nature, leave it alone.
3.) See #2. Same with morons that live in flood plains.
4.) For veterans and seniors only. The rest get what they or their parents earn for them.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22


3 edits

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by Skippy25 See Profile :

2.) Its nature, leave it alone.
It may be nature, but it is a man-made problem that was created by irresponsibility. Man-made problems should be cleaned up and fixed.

-- edit --

Just realized that I should be more specific, as I'm talking about wetlands loss/erosion, not natural BEACH erosion.

-- /edit --

As for those "morons" who live on flood plains, those flood plains are the gateway to the regions largest energy reserves. If those "morons" didn't live there, you wouldn't have access to that energy. Nor would you have access to the materials and supplies that flow through the ports and waterways. Flood plains are also where the best soil for growing (used) to exist, so without those "morons", you wouldn't have affordable food.
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: $700 billion could also...

Any erosion period is natural. It is the way the world works and has worked for millions of years before we were here. Leave it alone and let it take it's course. WE can work/live around it without it having to cost billions of dollars to support everytime a perfectly natural thing happens.

You obviously missed the point of my post. People utilizing flood plains is one thing. Grow crops and do what ever to utilize the resource. But people living there and/or government building levies so people and businesses can build there are just plain stupid and they should pay the price everytime they are flooded. Not us tax payers.

You want to live in an area that has hurricanes or a "bowl" of land that the Mississippi can easily flow into, then feel free. But you do it at your expense and when it is destroyed YOU rebuild it without my tax money.

NetAdmin

join:2008-05-22

Re: $700 billion could also...

said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Any erosion period is natural. It is the way the world works and has worked for millions of years before we were here. Leave it alone and let it take it's course. WE can work/live around it without it having to cost billions of dollars to support everytime a perfectly natural thing happens.
And I will rebut this claim again... The wetlands erosion along the Texas, Louisiana and other coastal regions is a man-made problem. It is anything BUT natural. Like I told the other poster, research wetlands loss and get the facts before you claim it is a natural problem and shouldn't be fixed.

You want to live in an area that has hurricanes or a "bowl" of land that the Mississippi can easily flow into, then feel free. But you do it at your expense and when it is destroyed YOU rebuild it without my tax money.
Considering the amount of tax revenue from those areas, which are major ports and huge energy producing areas, which the federal government has made billions in tax money from, the government should funnel some of that tax money back to those areas.

Non-oil producing states, like Missouri, are benefiting from the oil and gas revenues the federal government collects from states like Teaxs, Louisiana and other coastal states. Perhaps the money from those oil and gas revenues should stop flowing to any state that doesn't produce.
--
---
Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab.

swhitney2003
I can't drive 55.
Premium
join:2003-06-13
NH
clubs:

1 edit

.

Money can buy anything, just name your price. Copper is just so darn cheap, let's stick with that!! :-P

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

1 edit

Re: .

Wire the world with ISDN!!!!

Imagine how many shotgunned 56kbps modems $700 billion could buy. I kid, it's all kind of irrelevant.

tnroroc
Let's Rock

join:2001-04-25
Matawan, NJ

Do as I say, not as we do...

I didn't believe it as a child, and it make's even less sense now.

DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southeast


2 edits

700billion

Could save this country if spent correctly. Giving it to the coperations is a waste. Invest it in us Americans. We are what make this country tick, not money hungry corporations.

Outfit every single house with solar power. That would cut our energy demands by at LEAST 50%. It would pay itself off in no time flat. We would create more jobs in repair and installation of the panels. Since we use less barrels of Oil, gas prices should drop to an all time low. That would save this country ALOT more than throwing it away at Wall Street.
--

Have a Networking problem or question? Stop by the Networking Forum and let us help you.

texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:

Votes

Obama voted YES
Biden voted YES
McCain voted YES
Clinton voted YES

Remember this is a bipartisan passing in the Senate when you go to vote this November.

It was House Republicans who blocked it last time. Will they block it again? Will Democrats not like the new tax cuts and block it tomorrow? Will it pass as easily in the House as it did in the senate? Hopefully the damn thing dies tomorrow. If not, we've been sold out by both major parties.
--
We have two political parties in America. One is evil, and the other is stupid. Sometimes, they get together and do something both evil and stupid. That's called bipartisanship.

See 10 replies to this post

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Ugh

Kill this damn bailout already.

Is it really fair that the government is going to do the equivalent of print almost $1 trillion? That's right, the current version of the Wall Street giveaway is $850 billion.

If this passes we might as well hang an old USSR flag over the NYSE. The commies will have won. It disgusts me how so many in our government have literally embraced the economic policies of the old USSR.
--
"At the moment of conception."
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Fredericksburg, TX

Re: Ugh

A. Freakin'. Greed. There are about a zillion better things to do with that much money than to push back, by a few months or maybe a few years, a natural market correction.
Kommie

join:2003-05-13
East Haven, CT
This has nothing to do with Communism. Socialism to the Rich is not what us Commies are about....

Learn your history and stop buying into the Bullshit Propaganda.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast

Re: Ugh

said by Kommie See Profile :

This has nothing to do with Communism. Socialism to the Rich is not what us Commies are about....

Learn your history and stop buying into the Bullshit Propaganda.
You sound like you were born after 1991. I suggest you go read The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels and you might learn a thing or three about communism.

The old USSR and other communist countries would routinely pour tons of money into failing state-owned enterprises. The now-passed Wall Street Welfare Queen Bailout Act of 2008, along with the federal re-acquisitions not only does the same thing, but now effectively nationalizes the domestic mortgage industry.

As for "socialism," as someone once said, it is merely "communism sold by the drink."
--
"At the moment of conception."

no_one

@QWEST.NET

Selling us out to Chine

My wife asked if the US is broke where do they get the money. Well print it or borrow from say China. To me just another way of delaying the problem and making it even worse.
Obligations to other countries. Sure the rich or very political are now citizens of the world. The US goes down just move to another country and cut their losses.
Then those that can not do that are stuck with the mess. Wait they deserve the mess. Those good enough are the winners. Just like most posting on this site. Then again there is always someone better. Look out.

Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
·Shaw

Re: Selling us out to Chine

said by no_one :

My wife asked if the US is broke where do they get the money. Well print it or borrow from say China. To me just another way of delaying the problem and making it even worse.
Obligations to other countries. Sure the rich or very political are now citizens of the world. The US goes down just move to another country and cut their losses.
Then those that can not do that are stuck with the mess. Wait they deserve the mess. Those good enough are the winners. Just like most posting on this site. Then again there is always someone better. Look out.
Yep its official, the US is broke, perhaps not really as to be broke your debts have to be more then your assets. As of July 2008 the largest single holder of US debt is Japan followed closely by China (if you total up all the China's then they are the largest holder of US debt, top 10 listed below):

Japan 593.4 Billion
China, Mainland 518.7 Billion
United Kingdom 2/ 290.8 Billion
Oil Exporters 3/ 173.9 Billion
Brazil 148.4 Billion
Carib Bnkng Ctrs 4/ 133.5 Billion
Luxembourg 75.8 Billion
Russia 74.1 Billion
Hong Kong 60.6 Billion
Switzerland 45.1 Billion

From the end of June to the end of July the debt went up by about 31 Billion dollars (see »www.ustreas.gov/tic/mfh.txt )

I've often wondered why anyone in Luxembourg works as the US debt owed there is equivalent to about $76 Billion / 500,000 people or about $152,000 for every man woman and child. There is a truth to the statement that the world is made up of only two kinds of people, those that spend and those that save. $700 Billion can't be good for the bottom line as its not just paper, there has to be assets to back that up somewhere.

Now talking about using assets to cover off debts, given the US owes Canada 26.6 billion (we tend to buy US made products which helps keep it down a bit), which state(s) would we be able to buy with that, I'd like a warm one as I'm tired of freezing my butt off every winter . Alaska might be a nice fit of convenience but only if Sarah Paulin moves out, as a rule Canadians are not keen on political figures, no matter which party they represent or BS they spew as we already have a surplus in that area.

Now as a Canadian I like you guys and you have been good neighbors, but your credit funded life style has made me nervous for a long time as at some point in time the bottom line has to be settled up and typically the longer you wait the worse it is and frankly I'm a little worried about who all owns that bottom line.

Blake
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Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Another Federal jerk around.

The bail out will not help homeowners that purchased homes between 2004 and the end of 2006 and whose homes have lost value. Even if homeowners receive relief on their mortgage rates they will have a problem if they want to sell their homes and the selling price of their home is less than the unpaid balance on their mortgage. They will have to come to the closing with money that they do not have for the shortage. Our government has not explained how the bail out will help those homeowners. On the other hand the telecommunication monopoly took the money for outside plant upgrades and ran. The telecom mafia has already received money collected by the government and used it for other purposes. The telecommunications mafia need to be sanctioned for their misdeeds.

DaMaGeINC
The Lan Man
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southeast


1 edit

Many of us need to stick together.

I am sick and tired of our government. Us Americans are being ran over by them. Its a broken system and does not work anymore. What happened to the government for the people of the people. We let a few thousand people tear this country down. (people in Washington) We need to have a march and protest and be heard. I for one am to the point on taking a trip and protesting in Washington. I want these people out of their. Why should our government be controlled by the wealthy? Its whoever has the most money to buy themselves into office. Do you think a poor man(making 20k/yr) could EVER be elected into office? HELL NO. Why? Because he can not buy himself into office. He cannot buy all the media attention he will need to get his face out in the public. He cannot hire lobbyist to get his way. But that other guy with the cool couple million is the one who can, and hes the one getting elected into office. I could go on and on.
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dcurrey

join:2004-06-29
·ViaTalk

Re: Many of us need to stick together.

We have become complacent and lazy. And even if you did manage to get a major protest going in one city it would get maybe 1 minute total coverage on the news nationwide if that. Media tends not to tick the government off. That way most don't know about it and won't repeat the process in other cities.
Gogo1

join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY

Off topic article.

This article is a bit of a stretch in terms of relevance/substance. Irony makes the front page? Sure $700bn could pay for a lot of upgrades. It could also pay for everyone to have a car. That fact doesnt mean the bailout should be headline news in the automobile industry though.

This should surely be a post in a politics or economics forum. What is there to discuss from a broadband point of view? Of course the thread is going to stray straight into politics/economics. Unless that was what was intended?
qworster

join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME

Here's the bottom line:

REPUBLICANS PUT US IN THIS MESS!! Between 2000 and 2006, they controlled EVERYTHING! THEY put us here! Its seeds were planted by THEM!

Spin it all you want, but those are the FACTS!

Are the Democrats any better? I don't know..BUT remember, THEY DIDN'T PUT US HERE!!!

So the next time you want to blame the responsible party, DON'T blame the Democrats..BLAME the ones who gave us the "Contract for America" that has now RUINED our country-THE REPUBLICANS!!!

See 6 replies to this post

mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV
·DIRECTV
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast Digital Vo..
·Comcast

why don't we ask the world to pay us back???

Why doesn't the us ask the world to payback all off the money they owe us. Like france,japan,etc all owe us money from either world war 1 or world war 2. If the people in congress would get their heads out of their butts and tell these people overseas that we want what they owed us NOW we could have enough to string fiber to every home, put out economy back to normal, rebuild highways, get everyone "affordable" healthcare, and pay off some of out debts. Of course since this hasn't happened ever it probably won't because we like to just loan people/countrie's money and never get it back.

rec9140
Provoice just DO it

join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL

You can drop the freshly minted bills off at...

my house... I will put the $700B to very good use.

NO CHECKS, cash only! $1,000 bills only, please.

The rec9140 Trust will be glad to put this to good use to better rec9140!



Lets see.... what does newegg have for $700B
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Red Dragon
Imagine BBR in 20 years

join:2005-04-30
Scarsdale, NY

In other news....

Quoted from 1000+ people in front of walls street last week.

"You break it you buy it, you broke it you bought it."
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Stop or I will shoot put the CD down and step away nice and slowly *snap* *crunch*

Duramax08
Oy, Pass It on.

join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX
·Juno Express

Mmmmmm, Fiber..........

A country with everyone having access to fiber including rural areas. That would be awesome. But then it would probably kill ATT since there DSL availability sucks bad then people would start complaining and eventually kill the idea. But half of all US homes with solar? That would be great. Lower the electric bills for almost everyone since they are going up about every year. But then, They are giving all this money to banks that caught fail (not to mention all the money that went to a very expensive war). Say what you want be we are screwed for now.

THANKS BUSH FOR ALL THIS CRAP YOU GOT US INTO AND DIDN'T FINISH IT OFF!
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»live.xbox.com/member/Duramax08
crapmac
California - Sun, Surf, Traffic Jams

join:2007-05-03
California

Screw 'em!

Screw the banks, let's get internet!

some of these "news" stories are useless...

some are Grand, though!

cappya

@shawcable.net

WIll never happen

It can't be done because it in no way benefits the super rich...
Metatron2008

join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Wireless Broa..
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·AT&T Southeast


2 edits

Maybe another great depression is neccesary...

If anyone used their heads, this bailout is to spur the credit crunch. This bailout ain't gonna help fat cats with billions of dollars. It would help college students trying to get school loans. Or people trying to buy a house. Or small businesses trying to hire.

Of course people would rather spend the money on things like this.

I'd say then let another 1929 happen. When people are on the street, they'll realize how much they took for granted.
casey131

join:2006-09-07

Re: Maybe another great depression is neccesary...

I live in SE rural Louisiana and have been waiting for wired broadband service for over 8 years now. If this gets it to me faster, then GO FOR IT.
Forums » $700 Billion Would Buy A Lot Of Fiberpage: 1 · 2


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