NYC Broadband Committee Meeting to discuss muni-broadband Newsday has more on the plan to bridge the digital divide in New York City with a broadband elixir. This week should see the creation of a 15 member "broadband advisory committee," tasked with considering the multitude of options available. From the article: "more than half the U.S. households with annual incomes above $100,000 have broadband while more than two thirds of those who earn less than $100,000 do not."
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem quote: From the article: "more than half the U.S. households with annual incomes above $100,000 have broadband while more than two thirds of those who earn less than $100,000 do not."
Rock On! I wonder if NYC will tackle the major problem of high income households owning Jags, Porches and Bentleys while low income households don't.
But in all seriousness, how is this a problem? Doesn't NYC have libraries with computers that have net access? I have relatives living in Queens who used their public library's computers for net access until they bought their own and it didn't kill them. Why not focus on expanding availability of these systems (e.g., if there are long lines and limits to the amount of time you can use them, etc.)
Perhaps instead of trying to ban violent video games, Her Highness Hillary ought to tackle this issue instead. -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
|  |  BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? 
Actually, I agree with you and was going to post much the same thing... until I thought of the longer term picture.
The reason libraries even offer free Internet access is that the community pays for it. Since we all seem to think the "library of the future" is based on the Internet model with ubiquitous and home access, it's not unreasonable to carry that idea further to the point of making utility computing free or subsidized in most homes. (Community wireless is a great idea, for example.)
It may or may not be time to think about that right now (really productive or educational broadband applications are few), and I agree the income quote sounds a bit silly, but I wouldn't dismiss out of hand organized efforts to be forward thinking.
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  |  |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium join:2002-03-03 Mullica Hill, NJ kudos:4 | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem said by B: Since we all seem to think the "library of the future" is based on the Internet model with ubiquitous and home access, it's not unreasonable to carry that idea further to the point of making utility computing free or subsidized in most homes. (Community wireless is a great idea, for example.) The US doesn't need another product that is to be considered a right for the welfare crowd. People on welfare should have a right to nothing but food and housing. After that they should be on their own. -- -- Join Red Room Forum My Web Page | |
|  |  |  |  BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem That's very civil of you. Food and housing.
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  |  |  |  | | And that, of course, is why people like him can never be given power. Having an educated populace is a threat to those with weak minds.
It's not surprising he left out some of the other rights that we consider so important. As far as he and his ilk (G. Dubyah and friends), these rights are on a worthless piece of paper that gets in the way. That nasty 4th amendment doesn't help stop terrorist, so it must be ignored!
The right to speak. The right to gather peacefully. The right to be secure from unreasonable searches. The right to an impartial trial. The right to vote. The right to an education.
Anyone who gets ANYTHING from the government (heating assistance, etc) has to give up all those rights according to retire_rich and his astrotufing pals. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem I think what he meant to say was publicly funded "rights". When someone says we need to start giving away more services to those in the welfare programs I think a lot of frustrations arise. Due to the fact that so many people abuse the system, the thought of more tax dollars being spent on someone who isn't going to contribute positively towards society it pisses some people off. | |
|  |  |  |  |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium join:2002-03-03 Mullica Hill, NJ kudos:4 | said by G_Poobah:And that, of course, is why people like him can never be given power. You don't get it, do you? WE already have the power. It is you that don't have it. -- -- Join Red Room Forum My Web Page | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem said by ThrowDemsOut:said by G_Poobah:And that, of course, is why people like him can never be given power. You don't get it, do you? WE already have the power. It is you that don't have it. You don't have crap, thanks God.
As for 'solution' and 'problem' it's nothing but the usual barking from our resident right-wing nuts.
Smalltown boys won't get it, even with relatives from Queens - there will be a difference if every household will have a basic broadband, even those who cannot afford it.
Meanwhile poor kids outside of NYC will be stucked with their libraries, of course, thx to their local extreme rightwing nuts.  | |
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 |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | said by G_Poobah:And that, of course, is why people like him can never be given power. Having an educated populace is a threat to those with weak minds. It's not surprising he left out some of the other rights that we consider so important. As far as he and his ilk (G. Dubyah and friends), these rights are on a worthless piece of paper that gets in the way. That nasty 4th amendment doesn't help stop terrorist, so it must be ignored! The right to speak. The right to gather peacefully. The right to be secure from unreasonable searches. The right to an impartial trial. The right to vote. The right to an education. Anyone who gets ANYTHING from the government (heating assistance, etc) has to give up all those rights according to retire_rich and his astrotufing pals. C'mon. It's quite obvious they've stucked on some smalltown way of thinking - I've heard these nutcase 'arguments' many times when I traveled around the country. Of course, these are the folks who think government should do nothing but tax breaks and everything will be fine. Economical geniuses.  | |
|  |  |  |  |  JoeyDeePremium join:2004-07-23 Las Vegas, NV | "And that, of course, is why people like him can never be given power. Having an educated populace is a threat to those with weak minds."
In my limited experience it's those with weak minds who resort to hyperbole, hysterics and *name calling*. | |
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 |  |  |  sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM join:2000-07-01 Morristown, NJ | said by ThrowDemsOut:The US doesn't need another product that is to be considered a right for the welfare crowd. People on welfare should have a right to nothing but food and housing. After that they should be on their own. Who said anything about welfare? In your little bubble-world of golf tours, do you not notice the working people that work very hard yet don't make an assload of money? Do they not exist if you say so? -- enjoy zesty ranch man-flavored baby tacos responsibly | |
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 |  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD 1 edit | said by B:The reason libraries even offer free Internet access is that the community pays for it. Since we all seem to think the "library of the future" is based on the Internet model with ubiquitous and home access, it's not unreasonable to carry that idea further to the point of making utility computing free or subsidized in most homes. But also keep in mind that libraries exist because people may also not be able to purchase the books contained therein. The first libraries (I believe they were invented in Babylon 5000 years ago) main purpose was to store tablets so that the average joe could see them if he/she wanted to. I think providing (and expanding) Internet access in modern libraries is no different, after all, we wouldn't go purchasing books for anyone else who wants them now, right? We tell them to go to the library and check out a copy.
But as for "free" Internet for people who don't want to pay for it, I figure society already provides enough freebies as it is. People who want Internet so bad, just like people who want Jags, Porches and Bentleys, should have to go work and earn the privilege if they want to. -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
|  |  |  |  BPremium,MVM join:2000-10-28 | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem Yes that's a perfectly reasonable argument, except that the other theory is that the Internet really changes everything, to the point where NOT having it ubiquitiously available will be a serious drawback to participation in society.
We're nowhere near that point yet, but if we reach it then visiting a physical library will not be a reasonable substitute.
-- B -- In a realm outside causality and function | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem Why not give free phone and Tv to everyone while were at it. These are vital sources of info and communications, arent they?
I cannot believe that many are touting internet as the save all from economic depression. This is all just left wing political posturing so that "uninformed" people think that these politicians have their best interests in mind...please they just want their votes in the next election.
Subsidized internet will be probably not be utilized by the poor or those who can't afford it becuase if they can't afford internet then how can they afford a new PC or laptop, plus wireless adapter. Are our tax dollars going to buy people these too?
Lets just give everyone free everything and we will all be happy, no rewards for hard work or sacrifice...oh wait communinism, a similar "great idea", has been crushed by the US, hopefully this "new great idea" of municipal free broadband will so see the same fate. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  phugitPremium join:2002-07-26 Olney, MD 1 edit | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem Out of all the arguments, I really can't believe I never looked at it the way you just put it... right on!
>Why not give free phone and Tv to everyone while were at >it. These are vital sources of info and communications, >arent they?
Yes, yes I see a counter is that soon that stuff is over the Internet anyway, but it isn't now. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  rideboarderwelcome to the socialPremium join:2003-07-28 Snohomish, WA Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by truocchio:I cannot believe that many are touting internet as the save all from economic depression. This is all just left wing political posturing so that "uninformed" people think that these politicians have their best interests in mind...please they just want their votes in the next election. Let's leave politics out of this one. I'm "liberal" and I don't support this at all. For all I care these politicians are nuts. | |
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 |  |  |  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | said by B:We're nowhere near that point yet, but if we reach it then visiting a physical library will not be a reasonable substitute. Another good idea is for anyone who wants to donate Internet access to a poor household should be given tax breaks or other incentives to do it. It would be an ideal charity with the government not spending a single dime. I.e., people who want others to have internet can just pay for a subscription for someone else who is poor, and then deduct that from their gross income for tax purposes. -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem said by pnh102:said by B:We're nowhere near that point yet, but if we reach it then visiting a physical library will not be a reasonable substitute. Another good idea is for anyone who wants to donate Internet access to a poor household should be given tax breaks or other incentives to do it. It would be an ideal charity with the government not spending a single dime. I.e., people who want others to have internet can just pay for a subscription for someone else who is poor, and then deduct that from their gross income for tax purposes. Suuure, government shouldn't pay for ANYTHING, right?
Fuck the government then. I pay taxes, so I want my money back if they don't do shit as this current corrupt lunatic freak show doesn't do shit. | |
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 |  |  |  rideboarderwelcome to the socialPremium join:2003-07-28 Snohomish, WA Reviews:
·Comcast
| said by pnh102:But as for "free" Internet for people who don't want to pay for it, I figure society already provides enough freebies as it is. People who want Internet so bad, just like people who want Jags, Porsches and Bentleys, should have to go work and earn the privilege if they want to. "Free" internet would be one thing, but it's talking about broadband access. Now, I could understand giving them dial-up access for free or at low cost, however I for one don't believe that they need broadband access for free.
To continue with what you said...Why is having broadband access more important than having a car? As far as I'm concerned, without either of them you can still get around, i.e. public transportation or going to the library for internet access. Does this mean that we will just hand out BMW's to the poor so that they can get around and have the same freedoms and luxuries as hard working people? Hell, even giving them a beat up. car would be too much. Giving them assistance to live is one thing, but having broadband access surely isn't a necessity at all since we can survive just fine without it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY 1 edit | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem said by rideboarder:said by pnh102:But as for "free" Internet for people who don't want to pay for it, I figure society already provides enough freebies as it is. People who want Internet so bad, just like people who want Jags, Porsches and Bentleys, should have to go work and earn the privilege if they want to. "Free" internet would be one thing, but it's talking about broadband access. Now, I could understand giving them dial-up access for free or at low cost, however I for one don't believe that they need broadband access for free. Ouch... FYI: dial-up COSTS MORE, due to the cost of the landline, pal. BB isn't, that's only the cost of the provider's operating cost.
To continue with what you said...Why is having broadband access more important than having a car? As far as I'm concerned, without either of them you can still get around, i.e. public transportation or going to the library for internet access. Does this mean that we will just hand out BMW's to the poor so that they can get around and have the same freedoms and luxuries as hard working people? Hell, even giving them a beat up. car would be too much. Giving them assistance to live is one thing, but having broadband access surely isn't a necessity at all since we can survive just fine without it. Ouch again... have you ever been to NYC? Why is having broadband access more important than having a car? - perhaps because we have a great subway system, as well as bus, express bus etc and perhaps there's a reason most people use mass transit for commuting? I could easily afford a car but I won't buy one - what for? Subway is cheap and takes me to anywhere or if I want it, I take an also cheap cab. And we already have the elderly/disabled/welfare/whatever MetroCard for dirt cheap. | |
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 |  John GaltForward, MarchPremium join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp kudos:2 | Same Old... Same repetitive arguments as last week...and the week before...and the week before.
No need to vist THIS thread again...
But you guys...feel free to go at it. -- A is A | |
|  |  JoeyDeePremium join:2004-07-23 Las Vegas, NV | Re: Another "Solution" Looking for a Problem said by pnh102: quote: From the article: "more than half the U.S. households with annual incomes above $100,000 have broadband while more than two thirds of those who earn less than $100,000 do not."
Can somebody help me with the math, here? Can these fractions be reinterpreted to say that 16% more families with incomes over 100K have broadband than those with incomes under 100K?
I guess I would expect that and note that that's not a staggering difference....
I would expect the folks over 100K to be better educated and therefore more interested.
What am I missing? | |
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 rit56 join:2000-12-01 New York, NY Reviews:
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| native New Yorkers the other poster besides me who lives here in New York is for this. I am in full agreement with the city providing FREE wi fi to every city resident. you people commenting have no idea of city life, how expensive it is living here and what a treasure it is. most of you are racists who feel that any sort of government assistance is wrong. that's bullshit. free wi-fi will enable every resident and business high speed access thereby allowing students better access to information and making business more competitive. it is a good idea for the City to do this. I have roadrunner. a basicplus package with tv and Roadrunner is over 100 bucks a month. I think that's a lot of money. free wi-fi? sure. Another thing you have no idea how much damn money we pay here in taxes. we pay Federal, State and CITY. that's right City tax as well. I pay a lot of money in City tax. I want this return on the City tax I pay, I am not poor nor on welfare and all you out of town people commenting it's none of your business. let them provide free wi fi to rich and poor folk. screw Verizon and Time Warner. There is another post here today that states a town in Pennsylvania has to get Verizons permission to wire itself? You don't think that is wrong?
by the way you're using my avatar. | |
|  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD 2 edits | Re: native New Yorkers said by rit56:the other poster besides me who lives here in New York is for this. I am in full agreement with the city providing FREE wi fi to every city resident. you people commenting have no idea of city life, how expensive it is living here and what a treasure it is. You do realize that by electing someone to senate who had previously lived in NYS as long as we have not once, not twice, but THRICE! ok maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration LOL) does open you up to this sort of criticism, but I digress 
said by rit56:There is another post here today that states a town in Pennsylvania has to get Verizons permission to wire itself? You don't think that is wrong? I'm pissed that they would be allowed to wire themselves up even if they got Verizon's permission. -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
|  |  a @rr.com | I wouldn't mind free wifi (paid by only NYC residents) as a backup or as a way to get net access everywhere. The only alternative is Verizon EVDO and that is just ridiculously priced. There is no reason why the city can't offer 128/64 service for basic browsing and downloading of attachments. Alot of people have laptops in the city as desktop replacements. TO the posters not from NYC you definately don't ahve a right to comment because you have no idea what it is like to live in the city. The taxes here are tremendous and there are no light broadband tiers so those of you with light tiers available you are also shouldn't be commenting. To the poster who made the telephone/dial up comment: almost everyone in NYC no doubt has telephone. I can't imagine someone without it here. So almost everyone can get free dial up as there are many free dialup isps around or keep leeching off of AOL or PeoplePC. I don't see how Broadband is going to change these people's carreers such that dial up wont. The only thing Broadband will do is lead to more P2P and cause these impoverished people more problems (nothing against P2P just the XXAA scumbags won't hesitate to pick on the poorest of the poor). I can see this as a problem of artificial competition, but Verizon and TWC's services are faster. People who want to do things with their connection other than check their email will buy it anyway. Those are probably the people on dial up now. This muni project won't do anything to companies bottom lines. I am pro muni because it will increase the availablity of wireless throughout the city so everyone can use it. If it were just a project to wire up the poor so they could have broadband and no one else I would be against it. | |
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 tapeloopNot bad at all, really.Premium join:2004-06-27 Airstrip One kudos:1 | curing the symptom? Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it behoove the NYC politicos to apply their efforts toward solving the problem of economic disparity first before worrying about the "digital divide"? It appears that the more disposable income a household has, the more likely that household is able to afford broadband access.
While I'm very much in favor for affordable broadband for all of America, it seems like this task force in NYC is a bit misguided. -- Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. | |
|  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Re: curing the symptom? said by tapeloop:Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it behoove the NYC politicos to apply their efforts toward solving the problem of economic disparity first before worrying about the "digital divide"? Nah, that would be too intelligent of an approach  -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
|  |  | | said by tapeloop:Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it behoove the NYC politicos to apply their efforts toward solving the problem of economic disparity first before worrying about the "digital divide"? It appears that the more disposable income a household has, the more likely that household is able to afford broadband access. While I'm very much in favor for affordable broadband for all of America, it seems like this task force in NYC is a bit misguided. Maybe high speed access to the internet will help close the economic gap between poor and the middle class. | |
|  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: curing the symptom? said by compton:said by tapeloop:Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't it behoove the NYC politicos to apply their efforts toward solving the problem of economic disparity first before worrying about the "digital divide"? It appears that the more disposable income a household has, the more likely that household is able to afford broadband access. While I'm very much in favor for affordable broadband for all of America, it seems like this task force in NYC is a bit misguided. Maybe high speed access to the internet will help close the economic gap between poor and the middle class. Exactly. See my points above. | |
|  |  |  |  tapeloopNot bad at all, really.Premium join:2004-06-27 Airstrip One kudos:1 | Re: curing the symptom? said by kamm:Maybe high speed access to the internet will help close the economic gap between poor and the middle class. Exactly. See my points above. I must've missed your "points above" kamm; I didn't see anything you said that would warrant precluding other methods of equalizing economic disparity in favor of all-out broadband.
So why broadband before everything else? Is it the magic bullet to end poverty? -- Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. | |
|  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | Re: curing the symptom? said by tapeloop:said by kamm:Maybe high speed access to the internet will help close the economic gap between poor and the middle class. Exactly. See my points above. I must've missed your "points above" kamm; I didn't see anything you said that would warrant precluding other methods of equalizing economic disparity in favor of all-out broadband. So why broadband before everything else? Is it the magic bullet to end poverty? No, it's one of the magic bullets which makes sure poor kids will push you out every work you get... | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  tapeloopNot bad at all, really.Premium join:2004-06-27 Airstrip One kudos:1 | Re: curing the symptom?
said by kamm:So why broadband before everything else? Is it the magic bullet to end poverty? No, it's one of the magic bullets which makes sure poor kids will push you out every work you get... Maybe your grammar is slipping today, but are you trying to say that broadband will instantly create poor kids who will push us out of a job? Help us out here. -- Copyright infringement is illegal. Murder is illegal. Therefore, file sharing is murder. | |
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 | | Mo Money, Mo Money, IF NYC WANTS TO SPEND MORE MONEY, IT COULD SUBSIDIZE THE HEALTHCARE OR WAGES OF MTA MUNICIPAL WORKERS. nyc's priorities are always skewed towards the mega-rich. 30-50k salaries are not making anybody rich, with todays consumer prices, and business cutbacks. Holiday season is, worker gets screwed season. The red of santa's tailcoats is becoming more and more diluted into pink slips, for you, and you, and you.. while the mta squanders money on a seasonsal -lite- fare just to stick it to the union negotiations, What Money? we're broke, hahaha This time things might get ugly teamsters style, if they try to break the union up... Isn't it amazing that you need to earn less and less to be considered poor in this country, and the only people who make that much are primarily undocumented workers (illegal aliens) which could be the new MTA staff if nyc doesn't take transportation workers seriously. Who really needs wifi when it bleeds thoughout the city already.. wide open. | |
|  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Re: Mo Money, Mo Money, said by stateofaffairs :
IF NYC WANTS TO SPEND MORE MONEY, IT COULD SUBSIDIZE THE HEALTHCARE OR WAGES OF MTA MUNICIPAL WORKERS. You raise an interesting point. The more the city government spends on useless projects like universal WiFi, the more the city unions will demand in terms of wages, especially since the city would be spending so much on such services. I remember when the Philadelphia city council voted itself a 15% pay hike, the city's unions all in turn asked for the same pay hike since they reasoned if the city had so much to spend on the council, then it could also be more generous to the workers. -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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 BiggA join:2005-11-23 EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| great this is great, as grandmas and poorer people or minorities who can't see using the computer a lot can get free wifi, without paying $50 or $60/mo for something they don't think they will use. Of course, once they have it, they will use it more. This could be good for the cablecos in that way too, if the city wifi is 200kbps each way, and the cablecos have 15/2 connections. | |
|  |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD 1 edit | Re: great said by BiggA:Of course, once they have it, they will use it more. This is the same thinking FDR used in 1930s to ensure Democratic control of Congress for decades to come. Just give everyone government freebies and those who receive them will always vote for you. There is absolutely no way the opposition (composed of those paying the benefits) will ever win an election if a solid majority of people are on the government dole.
Of course, the plan backfires when there are more incentives to not produce and live off the government than there are to produce and pay taxes. After all, who would want to bother working when they know 80% of their wages would go to taxes and they would have to forfeit all the nice freebies they would get for not working? -- Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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