 
oroper
Patriots Rule
join:2004-06-01
Beverly, MA
| Ahh well I think they should deploy this to the places that really, really need broadband service.
I think out west in MA has a few towns that are making a ruckus about not having broadband and parts of Maine, Vermont etc.
If they do this, they have a lot better chance of success and PR that is actually worth mentioning.
Not fit for big city deployments IMO...too much competition already.
Feed the hungry!
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I'm a Chapelle Fan-I'm Rich Beehatch!! | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
2 edits | Re: Ahh well My question is specific to BPL technology, or delivering the last mile over powerline. Sure the backbone is fiber in most cases, but the most I've seen offered anywhere via BPL (correct me if I'm wrong) is about 6 meg down. If 802.11b already exceeds that right now, why would an investment in BPL make sense at all?
So assuming you use a pre-wimax or fiber backbone to link your "neighborhoods", woulndn't wifi "drops" be cheaper and faster than all the gear necessary to make a BPL drop to a home, even if they over-built the system and had a one-to-one drop requirement (one home gets a direct dedicated point to point wireless or BPL connection)?
I'd like to be supportive, but I don't get it.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Ahh well said by batageek  :I'd like to be supportive, but I don't get it. TXU electric here in Dallas/Fort Worth is plopping-down $10 million (as stated above). I think they know it'll be a consumer flop -- especially in a metro area that is well served by cable and telco broadband.
IMHO - TXU just wants the new data-grid for their own sensor/meter-reading network. It's damm good for that. TXU had to get it past the shareholders somehow -- and God knows they're dumb enough to think maybe this thing will pay for itself (heh-heh).
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"...lacking a [U.S.] military option, that leaves only a diplomatic option..."(Andrea Mitchell CNBC's Hardball 1/12/06 on Iran nuke buildup) | |
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batageek
Slave To The Duopoly
Premium
join:2003-01-25
| Re: Ahh well but even so, their own meter readings could be done wirelessly.
I'm a fiber guy for God's sake, but if I just wanted to read meters and try to offer some broadband offering (with no phone or tv offering), it would just seem to make sense to use a hybrid fiber / wifi system to accomplish that. You'd have much higher potenital for a competitive offering due to higher bandwidth (as far as I can tell) than you'll ever get out of a BPL system.
Again, I must be missing something.
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»www.tricitybroadband.com | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | It is best The one thing about it BPL is going to die on it's own. There will be no accusations that is wasn't given a chance. | |
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Blasterbator
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Jackson, MS | Re: It is best Hopefully that is how it will happen.
I don't want to have to spend the next 20 years hearing about "200 MPG carburetor quashed by the man" type stories about BPL.
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"If PCs are hard, then Macs are flaccid" -bb | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Transmaster :The one thing about it BPL is going to die on it's own. There will be no accusations that is wasn't given a chance. I would even go so far as to say that's all ready happening.
Most anyone outside the tech community has never heard of BPL. Most power companies don't want to lay out for the startup costs.
I wouldn't stick a fork in it just yet, but I think that little thermometer that tells you the "bird" is done is ready to pop out.... | |
| jdracer47
join:2005-10-16
Auburn, PA
| BPL My area has stuck a fork in it already, PPL is my only power supplier and they dumped it. PPL couldn't make it work in an area they had a monopoly on, as soon as the cable supplier upgraded to two way service and Verizon Avenue wireless went to Emmaus, PA, PPL decided to get out immediately. | |
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gwion
wild colonial boy
Premium,ExMod 2001-08
join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA
1 edit | The boat left... ohhhh, let's see... yeah, it left ... around noon... 1995. I guess one of the comical asides I see in the whole thing is that BPL might have actually generated some interest and excitment, if not downright enthusiasm, ten years ago. That's forever in tech years.
Once cable, DSL... heck, now we're deploying FTTP... and all became reasonably available, the market for Jerry-rigged approaches like BPL sort of dried up a little... OK, a lot.
It's a lot like a charity trying to build a two room shack for a homeless person who hit the lottery a week after he cashed in his ticket and moved into a mansion. It's downright humorous.
Why would someone choose BPL over fiber to the premises? If they would, wouldn't they expect to get it for a nickel and a dime? Wouldn't its sole major competitor be dialup?
For an area that needs service because the DSL, cable or fib-op system isn't being deployed there, great. It's a stop-gap alternative... again, directly positioned against dialup, and, maybe, satellite... can you really imagine that it's going to create competition for FTTP, FTTN, DSL or cable?
Effectively, it is "FTTN" the way it's usually implemented. In other words, it's nickel and diming the comm network by running the last mile over power lines instead of dedicated comm services lines...
But here's my question, in the proverbial nutshell: they expect us to start jumping up and down, drooling with anticipation and excitement, for a technology that, for most populated areas, was in practicality already obsolete before it was even widely discussed?
You don't expect to sell 12 inch black and white CRT TV sets, today, by pricing them competatively with and positioning them next to brand new 42 inch plasma sets...
No, I've never been excited about the tech, to be honest. But the question that really amuses me is why they're running around spending money they could be using to put in a real long term solution for the underserved instead of just trying to create a way of underserving them, just for a few years, using a new underserving technology, instead of just biting a bullet and deploying a proper, future-proof, dedicated comm network? As far as serving areas already being feasted upon by the cable company, the ILEC, a few CLECs and several dozen dialup providers, you'll have to pardon me if my first question is "why would you bother?" ...
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Semper Eadem
Sir, I have been through it from Alpha to Omaha, and I tell you that the less a man knows the bigger the noise he makes and the higher the salary he commands.
- Twain, "How I Edited an Agricultural Paper," 1870 | |
| | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: The boat left... ohhhh, let's see... yeah, it Actually, Ronpin in Keller, TX (and a few other people in other threads) probably come the closest to the reason for the BPL HYPE.
BPL has a use for the power companies, it will allow them to read and control your power usage. It is also low bandwidth, so the RF radiation is probably insignificant. Now, considering the stodginess of the power industry, if they tried to put the BPL in place for that purpose, the stockholders would call it a waste of money. But to try and do Internet to Joe Six Pack, now THAT is different. Now we do a business case, get funding, do a tax plan, then when it folds, take a write off, and recycle it all to the controlling the user better.
Makes more sense than what the media is hyping.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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BPLSUCKS
@comcast.net | Yea... The only positive benefit that I have seen in BPL is price and the fact that you have symetrical connection but everything else about it sucks. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
 ·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| Hot. After Many successful trials, and a few bad deployments, with a few premature cancellations. The technology is finally ready for the mainstream application.
IMO this expert is crumbling with pressure (or bribes) from agencies against it's deployment.
Essentially the agencies against it's deployment are trying to get the momentum to stop, by forcing a(n) (illegitimate) prophecy to come to fruition. Don't forget that there are more than just this person on the panel.
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Current Custom Tronix Mini-Gamer PC:EVGA 133-K8-NF43, AMD XP 64 3200+, 2x512 DDR Memory in Dual-Channel mode, 2x Diablotek nVidia GF 6600 w/512 MB DDR2, WD RAPTOR 10k RPM SATA-150, 16x DVD-ROM, 600W PSU, Mid-Tower Dragon Case ~$1235 + S&H | |
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dingus_b
@69.7.x.x
 from:
Vvian Kalyss
| Re: Hot. After Many successful trials, and a few bad deployments, with a few premature cancellations. The technology is finally ready for the mainstream application.
Really, under what criteria is something "premature cancelled"? The places it got cancelled were due to it being financially unsound.
Essentially the agencies against it's deployment are trying to get the momentum to stop, by forcing a(n) (illegitimate) prophecy to come to fruition. Don't forget that there are more than just this person on the panel.
What illegitimate prophecy is that? | |
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Vvian Kalyss
join:2003-10-14
Stage 5.0
clubs:
| Owned. Some of those visionaries are high on the fumes blowing out of their rear ends. As gwion mentions above, BPL was always a middling solution at best. I don't see any successful trials resulting in deployments bringing broadband to those who don't already have access in the form of cable, dsl, fios, etc. I don't see them rushing to fill in the rural niches neglected by mainstream cable and dsl deployments, to those who are supposedly yet unserved and need it.
They want to bring a "choice" which is not even as competitive, economical, nor efficient as the existing ones already in place. BPL is and always has been a broadband bandwagon jumper. Not a good solution by any stretch of the imagination either, judging by FACTS like their track record and not fiction like their PR.
BPL = complex nonsolution to simple nonproblem.
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Mikami Vvian, resident Girlfriend of Steel, care of the Tokyo-3 Middle Daughters Club | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Hot? It's tough to even classify BPL as lukewarm at the moment. After about nine years of development and four years of lobbying and extreme promotion in the US, BPL is in only 0.1% of the zip codes in the US. This figure counts both commercial deployments and trial systems, and most of the systems don't cover a majority or even a large portion of the zip code they are registered in.
A lot of the public is misled into thinking BPL is faster and better than DSL, cable, and even fiber and they have been told BPL can be deployed essentially anywhere there are power lines and that it is a viable rural solution. Despite this non-factual hype and a demand for broadband that is greater than ever in a society that considers Internet a necessity, BPL deployment is still back at the starting gate.
Note that the two paragraphs above don't even mention interference, presumably the "illegitimate prophecy" you allude to. | |
| | KB2PSM
join:2002-08-06
Long Beach, NY
| Translation of this "BPL must be, has to be and darn it, will be great" poster's comment:
The facts be damned, the proof be damned, an honest assessment be shunned- if BPL isn't universally accepted as the best thing in the world, its only because of some conspiracy against it.
(For those who have tried to offer ctceo credible information and are still waiting for his responses and proof of his MANY claims, I think I summed up ctceo's baseless rants pretty well, eh?)
Rob
said by ctceo :After Many successful trials, and a few bad deployments, with a few premature cancellations. The technology is finally ready for the mainstream application. IMO this expert is crumbling with pressure (or bribes) from agencies against it's deployment. Essentially the agencies against it's deployment are trying to get the momentum to stop, by forcing a(n) (illegitimate) prophecy to come to fruition. Don't forget that there are more than just this person on the panel. | |
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ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
clubs:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Comcast
·AT&T Midwest
·HughesNet Satellit..
| Baseless rants? It seems that BPL is finally rolling out is key areas, and gaining momentum. Not as much as it could be due to companies with smaller pockets having to fight against big lobby, but it's gaining none the less. If it were so disastrous to emergency communications, it's strange that I haven't heard a bad word from any law enforcement agencies that I've e-mailed about such interference in there areas.
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Current Custom Tronix Mini-Gamer PC:EVGA 133-K8-NF43, AMD XP 64 3200+, 2x512 DDR Memory in Dual-Channel mode, 2x Diablotek nVidia GF 6600 w/512 MB DDR2, WD RAPTOR 10k RPM SATA-150, 16x DVD-ROM, 600W PSU, Mid-Tower Dragon Case ~$1235 + S&H | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: Hot. said by ctceo :Baseless rants? It seems that BPL is finally rolling out is key areas, and gaining momentum. Not as much as it could be due to companies with smaller pockets having to fight against big lobby, but it's gaining none the less. If it were so disastrous to emergency communications, it's strange that I haven't heard a bad word from any law enforcement agencies that I've e-mailed about such interference in there areas. Again, you pull this "I haven't heard anything from {insert public safety agency}", but you always fail to note whether the BPL system in question is actually operating in the spectrum the public agency uses. BPL doesn't use high band VHF and UHF frequencies that a lot of public safety uses. Emergency communications isn't just local public safety, it's also long distance HF communications.
The "big lobby" is on the BPL side, my friend. BPL has the UPLC/UTC, APPA, and the PLCA. Even the FCC could be added to this list. There's other consorsiums like HomePlug. All of these organizations (minus the FCC) are funded by their members who are power utilities with millions of customers and revenue in the billions. The so-called ARRL "big lobby" is funded by maybe 80,000 radio amateurs that go to work everyday and pay the rent each month just like you.
If this amateur radio "big lobby" is so powerful, where has it prevented BPL from rolling out? Also, why is it that a BPL system like Cinergy's in Cincinnati which hasn't had interference issues isn't impeded by the ham lobby who according to Comtek wants to deny businesses and families of BPL broadband?
The fact is any BPL company can roll out BPL anywhere they want today. All they need to do is get buy-in from a utility or municipality, release a press release, and do it. If interference becomes an issue and they can't fix it, release another press release portraying hams as the bad guys and say everything is fixed. Even with documented evidence of measurements showing maps, signal levels, and recorded interference emissions, bozos on BBR will still say there's no evidence and side with BPL companies. The general public can easily be misled into thinking BPL is a viable rural solution, or that it's better than cable or DSL because most people don't have a technical clue. Rest assured, BPL companies are not at a disadvantage in all of this. | |
| 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | In the sticks In the sticks would be fine but anywhere that offers Cable or DSL forget it.. unless you like a Qwest DSL type level of service.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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BourneKilla
join:2005-04-12
| Hard to say... The only way I can see them drawing customers would be to offer Broadband connection comparable to Cable or FIOS speeds, lighten up the TOS agreements, and have a good pricing plan like Verizon DSL.
So, if some provider offered 6/2 Mbps for 30 bucks a month I am sure many would be satisfied with that. No bundles to worry about, as cheap as DSL with Cable speeds. I don't believe it is wise to dismiss any technology even with such a rocky start. The key is the startup costs. Can they make it in the long run offering cheap internet service.
768Kbps/128Kbps DSL $15 + $50 for POTS = $65
6Mbps/2Mbps BPL $30 + $25 (or less) for VoIP = $55
3Mbps/768Kbps DSL $30 + $50 for POTS = $80
6Mbps/768Kbps Cable* $55 + 25 (or less) for VoIP = $80
6Mbps/768Kbps Cable* w/TV $100 + $25 for VoIP = $125
5Mbps/2Mbps FiOS** $35 + 25 (or less) for VoIP = $60
15Mbps/2Mbps FiOS** $45 + 25 (or less) for VoIP = $70
*Cable speeds are different everywhere. Some have 10Mbps for the same price as 6, others may have 16Mbps which usually costs a few dollars more a month.
**Assuming Verizon does not make you purchase POTS with it. | |
| Viscer
join:2005-07-25
Sandy, OR
| Maybe you've forgotten What dialup speeds are like on 30 year old lines.
Any glimmer of broadband hope for the people that do live in the sticks is a breath of fresh air. Granted, it may never come because broadband is currently deployed in areas where the companies deploying it make their most money. Areas that have Cable, DSL and Fiber, get faster and faster and cheaper and cheaper.
I have satellite. It costs me about 60 US/month. I am limited to 160megs of download at a time before I'm dropped to dialup speeds. I live in Oregon, where it rains...so I have a fair amount of times when I'm out of service.
I have Verizon's EVDO...but I don't get broadband where I am...just a bit too far out.
My only other choice is Fractional T1 (frame relay) or full T1 line (No ISDN, DSL (25kft) or Cable). Telco priced a 128k dedicated line for 200US/month...and my isp would be an additional 200/month.
So for the record...when I hear there "might" be something on the horizon that can even get me close to 1996 DSL speeds...I get excited. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: Maybe you've forgotten BPL isn't going to bring broadband to rural areas any quicker than DSL or cable has (or hasn't). BPL isn't a long haul technology; you still need to get the Internet to the BPL feedpoint using fiber or telco facilities. Also, you need repeaters every 2000 feet or less.
If BPL was truly the solution to rural broadband, wireless would have filled this void years ago before BPL came on the scene in the US. | |
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1guest
| Re: Maybe you've forgotten Please go to UPLC.ORG and check out the BPL deployment map. | |
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BPL: Hot or Not?
Re: Ahh well