EFF Sues AT&T For Handing NSA Customer Info E-mail, Phone records handed over without legal process The Electronic Frontier Foundation has filed suit against AT&T, accusing the company of "violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating with the NSA in its massive and illegal program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications." According to the EFF, AT&T has given the NSA direct access to the company's 300 terabyte "Daytona" database without proper legal process; the information collected included phone records and e-mail exchanges. "Congress has set up strong laws protecting the privacy of your communications, strictly limiting when telephone and Internet companies can subject your phone calls to government scrutiny," says EFF Staff Attorney Kurt Opsahl. "The companies that have betrayed their customers' trust by illegally handing the NSA direct access to their networks and databases must be brought to account. AT&T needs to put a sign on its door that reads, 'Come Back With a Warrant.'"
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 | | Finally? I'm on the fence. | |
|  | | | Re: Finally? So was Humpty Dumpty, but I dont think well be able to smash the NSA into pieces. | |
| | | | I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON.
Remember, boycott the bells. Alternatives finally exist in cable and voip. One can finally, after 100 years of monopoly bullying free themselves from Bells' embrace. | |
| | | | | Re: Finally? Suing the Government is harder than suing private corporations. ATT doesn't enjoy governmental immunity. ATT will have a harder time invoking national security as a defense, but I don't completely rule it out. Echelon was spying on foreign soil aimed at foreign airwaves. A US court is more likely to find no jurisdiction.
Please note this is not a ringing endorsement of Echelon, but I think ATT is more vulnerable than the NSA. Too bad. The NSA needs something to slow them down. | |
| | |  sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ | said by TelecomJunky2:I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon?
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity | |
| | | | | | Re: Finally? "Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon?"
From a right wing talking points fax. | |
| | | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
 ·Bright House
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Knee Jerk! Interesting. A knee-jerk reaction, accusing the right wing of a knee-jerk reaction.
Anyhoo, Echelon, as we know it, appears to put into action between 1996 and 1998 under the oversight of George Tenet. It was executed by Clinton and authorized by the FISA court.
However it's an outgrowth of existing surveillance by the NSA and the GHCQ. There are documents as far back as 1981 referring to the gathering process as Echelon 2.
It seems be initially directed toward eastern bloc and Russian monitoring, but expanded during the 80's and 90's to include international terrorism, drug cartels and expanded spying. It's a cooperative effort including the sigint agencies of South Africa, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and (who knows) maybe even Antarctica.
It's various attributes and incarnations have been know as P-415, Silkworth, Project P-377 (aka CARBOY II) and a host of others.
What Clinton put into action brought the most profitable use of Word Spotting for sifting information and brought it to new levels of effectiveness.
I'm pretty sure there are already files on me somewhere anyway.
NV
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Abortion: Improves the Gene Pool! | |
| | | |  kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Finally? said by sporkme:said by TelecomJunky2:I am all for anyone suing At&t for any reason. Even one that should have been brought in the 90's when Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Where did this rumor start that Clinton created Echelon? Umm Echelon was
1. Authorized properly
2. targeting foreigners
None of these are true about Bush's highly illegal, stalinist eavesdropping operation.
He's not only continuously violating the law but also openly and loudly advertizing it, calling for more support to violate the law.
Bush should be impeached. Clinton came under fire for the fraction of Bush's last 5 years - lies and outright violation of both laws and Constitution, of both he promised under oath to not only respect but enforce. | |
| | | | |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Finally? said by kamm:Bush should be impeached. LOL... with Republican majorities in both houses of Congress and no hope at all for the Democrats regaining control of either one? Um, yea... you get right on that.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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| | | | | I didn't say Clinton started Echelon, but he did abuse it.
ECHELON was originally designed to spy on foreign communications, however, in the late 90's agreements were signed with our foreign allies involved in the project to spy on our citizens through these foreign countries who did not have any laws restricting them from spying on U.S. citizens and transmitting those intercepts back to the U.S.
In addition, ample evidence exists that Clinton and the DNC used intercepted communications against their political opponents at the time.
Check links below for references:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
»americanthinker.com/articles.php···_id=5150
Aside from ECHELON, here is a good report about Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement and how dangerous laps in security exist that would allow just about anyone with the knowledge can tap into our telephone communications network.
»www.informationclearinghouse.inf···6480.htm
But I digress, this is not a thread on politics of dems and repubs, we are talking about At&t and how they and other ILECs are willing to sell out their customers privacy and drive their costs up through hidden fees and two-tiered Internet schemes.
»hotcarl.diaryland.com | |
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| | | | said by TelecomJunky2:Clinton was doing the same thing under project ECHELON. Echelon is multinational. You get around the laws by having canada or UK do actual spying on America. They report what they have to the NSA & DIA. We in turn do the same for them. Easy way to get around the courts. Also remember that the NSA is not really a govt organization. There funding does not come directly from the national budget so they don't fall under same rules as the CIA, FBI, or homeland security. | |
| | | audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI | All Telecoms are in on it some don't even know it.
Your VoIP has a telecom tie to get its numbers all Data(voice is digitized to maximize bandwidth) traffic is sifted even Cell calls including the Nextel walkiesucky. Most of it is boring but the .01% is what they are after and people did not question the provisions in the patriot act the allowed the government to tap communications by invoking National Security as a means to an end.
By the way Clinton is not the first. The Reagan admin started the project when the CIA purchases 3 systems in addition to the NASA system and gave Canada and England each a system so we could spy on each other and not break the law.
The exchange went like this,"Sorry we intercepted your communications my mistake here is a copy." | |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
| Nice I hope ATT loses this one and I hope they lose a shitload of money.
Imagine EFF investing that money in encryption so people can communicate without anyone listening.
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I did not give you tool points. I'm too cheap to do that.  | |
| |  Sr TechPremium
join:2003-01-19
New Fairfield, CT | Re: Nice ATT always has and always will think they are god in the telecom world, I hope they stick it to them good. Real good, make ATT suffer bad. | |
| | rileyjam514There You Go Again...
join:2005-06-26
Kearny, NJ | Amen to that, brother! | |
| | | | said by Anonymous:I hope ATT loses this one and I hope they lose a shitload of money. Imagine EFF investing that money in encryption so people can communicate without anyone listening. Unless you build your own cypher forget about encryption. There is a reason PGP is limited to 128-bit encryption. And there is some evidence to suggest the NSA has already developed techniques to break it and other 128-bit encryptions. IMHO it would have never been approved for export had they not done so. | |
| | | Reviews:
·Mediacom
| Re: Nice Yeah but what about people outside US? I wish someone would create something really strong just to see them sweat
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I did not give you tool points. I'm too cheap to do that. | |
|
 ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 |  NSA tapping worldwide comm forever; surprised??
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Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page | |
| |  TopmounterSent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | Re: NSA tapping worldwide comm forever; surprised? If this was one of **AA's doing this, I'd be scared and angry.
The NSA I don't mind so much. | |
| | | Sr TechPremium
join:2003-01-19
New Fairfield, CT Reviews:
 ·PHONE POWER
| Re: NSA tapping worldwide comm forever; surprised? I don't have a problem with the NSA tapping calls as I have nothing to hide. The NSA is supposed to be tapping calls out and in bound from countries that support terror. That's fine and dandy, but if ATT is just turning over every record with out a subpoena or reason then that is just wrong in my book. | |
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| bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | said by ThrowDemsOut:With the current Supreme Court, they will lose in the end. Which just shows that the Supreme Court will sell out the Constitution just as quickly as Congress and the White House.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
|
 Dominokat"Hi"Premium
join:2002-08-06
Boothbay, ME
kudos:2
·RoadRunner Cable
| Good bye to our rights With this administration, our rights to privacy and everything else will cease to exist, more and more. (Using the cloak of terrorist activity) Especially now that this Alito is now on the Supreme Court.
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Adelphia HSI*6000/768*Linksys BEFCMU10 v4 modem*Linksys WRT54G WAP/Router | |
| |  DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Re: Good bye to our rights under Clinton, there was echelon, and a roaring silence. Plus if you read the consitution its clearly states they can..so whats your point ? | |
| | | bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Good bye to our rights said by DaveDude:Plus if you read the consitution its clearly states they can.. Where in the Constitution does it say that the government can spy on its citizens without a warrant or checks? Anyone who would interpret the Constitution to give the government that power clearly is out of touch with what the framers were thinking.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | | well, actually
The Government can do whatever it damn well pleases since it writes, as well as enforces, the laws. Who is going to stop them? You? Who is going to catch them? The FBI? The Homeland Security agency? Get real. They all work for the executive which is, naturally, not going to allow the grunts to investigate, let alone charge and try their bosses.
Why is it, do you think, thay you are not allowed to sue the Federal Government unless they LET you? They are the real power. As I said earlier: THEY can break the contract (laws)with YOU, but YOU had better not break the contract with them, pilgrim. If you do you will find that they will use ANY amount of power needed to make you bow and kiss their ring. And, no matter what, they will have a law that justifies their doing it. | |
| | | | | bmn? ? ?Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: well, actually said by Fatal Vector:The Government can do whatever it damn well pleases since it writes, as well as enforces, the laws. Who is going to stop them? You? Who is going to catch them? The FBI? The Homeland Security agency? Get real. They all work for the executive which is, naturally, not going to allow the grunts to investigate, let alone charge and try their bosses. The Constitution says otherwise...
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | | | State constitutions say otherwise also.
Power in America is distributed among may different individuals: federal, state, local and the people (voting, Second Amendment). The executive branch does not have that much power. Whenever a judge makes a ruling that President Bush dislikes, he cries, "liberal activist judge." The point is that judges make rulings that he does not like. President Bush is a conservative making a power-grab (with lots of success). We, the people, need to stop him. I know which box I marked on the ballot in 2004. If he had lost, I think he would have stepped down from power.
A drill instructor once said, "You're in the Army now: you're no longer covered by the Constitution." | |
| | | | | | | | OK then
WHO, pray tell is going to enforce the constitution? You? No, it's enforced by the federal courts, isn't it? That means they have to be caught first, or, have a case brought before the federal courts.
State constitutions are subject to being overruled by fedral courts if they are deemed by said courts to violate the federal constitution. Guess what? That means they mean diddly to the federal executive and we are back to my original statement, aren't we?
When was the last time you heard of ANY federal agent of ANY kind being arrested by local or state law enforcement and then prosecuted in state courts? It doesn't happen because federal law enforcement allway overrides the local/state jurisdictions and takes them into federal custody and prosecutes them in federal courts. Once they disappear into the maw of the feds, you likely never hear of them again, except by chance.
This is why the Federal Supreme Court overruled the Florida Supreme Court in 200 because their actions were unlawfull in the state of florida and the florida supreme court exceeded their authority.
The bottm line fact is that in america ALL the laws, local and state are subordinant to federal laws and rulings. While normally, the federal government will not interfere in state matters, the fact is that it CAN whenever it wants to. What? You thought the really rich and powerfull that actually run things would give the states any ability to bring them down? | |
|
RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Sort of old news The FBI has been doing that with generic John Doe warrants for a LONG time.
As far as the right or wrong about it, I know of two cases where information from what some people are calling illegal access stopped what could have been a messy incident.
But, do we want that level of scrutiny in our free country? Do we even have a free country after the 20 or 30 years of Dems and Repubs? Are people allowed to even defend themselves anymore to make that scrutiny uncalled for?
As an obscure writer wrote in the 1700's:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
The question is, are we REALLY still free? Or has Congress legislated us into serfdom? (just try shooting the punks striping your car because the cops are tied up with a murder, a fire, and a 5 car accident and they know that they out number you and the cops will not be there in time to do any good)
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | | | Re: Sort of old news As an obscure writer wrote in the 1700's:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
That obscure writer was Ben Franklin | |
| | | RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | Re: Sort of old news said by Spudge_Boy:As an obscure writer wrote in the 1700's: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." That obscure writer was Ben Franklin As the drunk pointed out, Franklin most likely did not pen that but supposedly another person by the name of Richard Jackson in a letter to the Governor of Pennsylvania did. If I lived in Boston I know where I could go to get more details, but for now it is just one of those items that make up the American Mythos.
I always thought is Ben too, but I had an instructor who caused an uproar in class by saying Ben did not do it, and had some convincing proof. Thus it stuck with me. The name Jackson does not ring a bell, but several net sources (if you can trust them) did have his name and to whom it was written to. Your research may vary.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 MadDog3057Ex Astris, ScientiaPremium
join:2002-02-26
Miami, FL | There you have it.... Your personal information....delivered. | |
| |  PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1 | Re: There you have it.... ROFLMAO -- good one!!! | |
|
 calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerl..
| What the statutes say.... The EFF, to the extent it references Title 47 of the US Code (i.e., the title dealing with the FCC), references section 605 which generally prohibits interception or dissemination of communications, though one of the exceptions, IN ADDITION TO COURT WARRANTS, is "on demand of lawful authority." Clearly, there is some condition anticipated which involves a "lawful authority" demanding stuff without a warrant--otherwise it wouldn't be a separate exception.
Historically, phone companies have treated this as "when the lawful authorities (i.e., the police) make the demand, we comply" and this provision has been used, for example, to place warrantless wiretaps on phones in hostage situations. I am not aware of its use for long term taps.
A related provision is section 606, which gives the President all of the FCC's regulatory powers, along with the powers to seize, close, or use telecom facilities "[u]pon proclamation by the President that there exists war or a threat of war, or a state of public peril or disaster or other national emergency...." While the President's powers are limited somewhat by other language in 606, he does get all of the FCC's powers, which would include the first cut at defining the otherwise undefined "lawful authority" phrase in 605.
Bottom line in this analysis is that ATT may have been (and will certainly claim to have been) effectively immunized by the Presidential proclamations involved.
(The legality of the proclamations is, of course, a separate matter--but it's not likely that the US Supreme Court is going to decide a case that will make ATT not want to comply with Presidential directives in time of war. Defining and limiting "time of war" may well receive attention, but I doubt that ATT is really in much danger here.)
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
| jpark
join:2005-02-05
Jackson, TN | Won't likely affect anything, but a good effort. Unfortunately, our government [I do not mean just the current administration] believes that protections built into our Constitution mean nothing. That to 'protect' the populace, violations of privacy which violate the Constitution are OK.
The government places itself above the law -- you can't effectively sue the government. So filing suit against a company which cooperates with illegal activities is the only real option.
Monitoring calls which go outside the US is perfectly reasonable. Monitoring communications from/to persons who have no legal right to be in our country is reasonable. But citizens have rights to privacy and due process.
There is an argument that states 'If you are doing nothing wrong, why do you care if your communications are intercepted'. The fallacy of this argument is that privacy is in and of itself an important right. A lady taking a shower is doing nothing wrong, but likely would object to monitoring during that process.
Unfortunately, there seem to be many citizens who don't seem to mind giving up Constitutional protections.
Perhaps this action by the EFF will at least give companies and even perhaps the government cause to reconsider their actions. | |
| | | | Unfortunately
The thing about having rights is that you have to be able to enforce them to begin with and the sad fact is that you, as a individual have absolutely no way to effectively do that.
Bottom line is that, as proles (common people) we are nothing but grunt workers dominated by the rich (Whom we have to work for and OBEY in order to live, access the courts/legal system, be accepted by society as a "upstanding citizen", etc. Basically, it boils down to being a societal ass kisser to survive in the mob) who have all the power and who have made sure that that power is secure by enacting laws that protect them, as well as giving "the Government" power to act on their behalf, if necessary, against us, either by using the laws and courts to threaten the destruction of our lives, by tort, loss of job/income source (which leaves you essentially helpless), or, criminal accusations, conviction and prison
(And, my friends, once they convict you, they own you body and soul and no one in society gives a damn about you any more)or, simply by proclamation of an emergency which under the laws automatically suspends our constitutional rights under the law, the greatest example of which was the Japanese interrment during WW 2.
The only thing that stops them today is that we are armed to the teeth, which is why they are so hot to disarm us, yet cant because of the constitutional provision that they have to at least appear to respect and enforce, lest we wake up to them and start actually thinking for ourselves. They know what that would likely lead to. Thus, they resort to incrementalism. United we stand and divided we fall.
Just as your children have no rights as minors except those that you choose to give them as their parents by accessing the courts and legal system on their behalf, so do you, just like them, have no rights except what the Government chooses to grant you access to. It's as simple as that.
You can spout about the constitution and your "rights" all you like, however, you will find that somewhere in federal laws there will be provisions that serve to deprive you of every single one of those rights, or, "privleges", couched in perfectly reasonable (on the surface) terms, or, as an ancilliary to, or, of other laws. Basically, what it amounts to is that they allways have a "gotcha" law to screw you with if it is in their interests or need to discredit and screw you.
After all, once you are charged (or sued) in whatever manner, no matter how, you are thought to be guilty and no matter if you are aqutted, you remain guilty in the collective memory because, the government wouldn't have laid charges against you in the first place unless you were guilty, now would it? This mindset is encouraged in the population (mob) for this very reason and if you fall for it, you deserve what befalls you in the end.
No. It is up to you to actually think, be aware of the world around you and cover your own ass because it is guaranteed that no one else will, especially when they are occupied protecting their own asses. If you fail to do this, you will remain what the majority of people in this country are, regardless of income or apparent social position (which can easilly be taken away from you quickly), an ass kisser. Weather the ass is societies, your bosses, your wifes, the governments, or, a combination of same is immaterial. You have no choice, UNLESS you make it your business to be free and that, my friends takes commitment, especially since you have been programmed since you were a baby to "follow the rules" and "get along in society".
Think about it. You know it's true. | |
| | | | | Re: Unfortunately If you don't follow the driving rules, how long would you last as a motorist? An accident would likely stop you before a patrolman. Not all rules are bad. | |
| | | | | | I hate to tell you But driving (while I understand the metaphor) is nothing like living life and surviving in society. Nor is a accident the same thing as losing your job or source of income, or, being convicted of a crime, or5, haveing a massive judgement laid against you, thereby destroying your life. | |
|
| | illegal program is the topic. Again we are here because people are ignorant. The problem isn't that the NSA is tapping our phones but they are tapping our phones and communications ILLEGALLY. Here in America we have these things called LAWS which everyone is suppose to follow. Simply put the president said fuck the law do it anyway. All you have to do is read the article.  | |
|  BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO | right to privacy Since when do you have the right to privacy when you are communicating with someone on a "international" call. YOU DON'T!!! | |
| |  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | It comes down to the same thing The left wing hates Bush, Bush cases every problem in the world, Bush is Evil, etc, etc, etc, and on and on.
The New York Times first reported on Bill Clinton's spying program and stated it was a necessary thing. Bush does the same thing in a much more focused way and he is braking the law.
You Bush haters just flat hate the United States, and Everything it stands for. If you have the courage and I know you don't you lefties are cowards, go here »www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/ click on "Know Your Enemy" I wonder what these poor souls thought when these Islamic butchers started to saw their heads off with a butcher knife.
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you. | |
| | | looser
join:2001-02-04
La Mesa, CA | Re: It comes down to the same thing You said Bush, all we said it wasn't right whoever does it. | |
| | | | | Cowards, let me take a stab at that one.
So, why should my freedom of speech be curtailed or stifled! Why should I not be able to post anonymously!
They way I look at George Bush is the only President that was stupid enough to come out an publicly state that "I have the right to do this". This case will prove that he was doing wide spread data mining on all the American People. Which I think is unreasonable. He should be impeached for it, or we just another police state.
As far as Echelon I hope the Supreme Court finds that agreement unconstitutional as well. No foreign Government should be able to spy on the American People or Diplomats with are Governments consent.
No one should be sent to a foreign soil, so that they can be tortured with are governments consent or held indefinitely with out trial.
George Bush launched this war in Iraq on bull shit intelligence and lies. If are Intel was so great why didn't it pick up the huge nuclear program in Iran. This Bull Shit Intel has given us Mushroom Cloud, Yellow Cake, The do not fly list, Guantanamo Bay. He is just trying to cover his ass.
He should be impeached for any and all of these things. Plus he and his staff outed a CIA spy.
I am not willing to sacrifice my freedoms for these things. This is not what my ancestors fought for, and are fighting for till this day. So say what you have to say, because it was paid for in blood.
PS You dishonor those people that where beheaded by visiting those kinds sites. | |
| | | | TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | who is it that seeks to suppress free speech Oh you have the all of the freedom of speech you want, you can thank the people such as myself who put their lives and those who today continue to put their lives on the line so the left wing kooks can drop their hate the USA bombs. I find it interesting it is the left wing that seeks to curtail free speech. Look at your average university, there you see the suppression of anything that doesn't toe the left wing PC line, Christian groups, conservative groups, The Military services, etc. On the satellite there is a the Free Speech channel. It's name is a laugh all I have ever seen on it are left wing nut cases usually screaming at the top of their lungs about the evils of the United States, Bush, the CIA, our SS military, the so call right to kill their unborn children, and so on. Watch any demonstration staged by these nut cases and see what they do to somebody who has a different view point then theirs, they are shouted down, they are assaulted, children carrying signs they don't like have the signs torn out of their small hands and ripped to shred's leaving them in tears. It is ok for somebody like Louis Farrakhan to say the most racist and bigoted things, but when a member of the KKK says the same despicable things they are excoriated and their lives are in danger. The ACLU seeks to suppress freedom of expression in more ways then I can count. Now tell me again who is against free speech?
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Low voltage Tech's are wimps, Real tech's use 45 pound filament transformers, plate voltages no less then 2400 volts with at least 10 amp's lighting 8877 triodes...BPL I'm coming to get you. | |
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 kba4
join:2001-10-23
Canton, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | AT&T your ____, delivered.
someone beat me to it but that's the truth, isn't it. someone please recap what's happened in the past few years that allowed ATT to regroup. tell me who allowed that, and what deals ATT must have cut with them to be allowed. how easy it must be for the government to 'tap' now when there's really only one large company to deal with. ATT will gladly hand over anything on us because they are in debt to the feds now. | |
| ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 |  President's words on this subject
»www.kutv.com/national/misc_story···225.html
We now know that two of the hijackers in the United States placed telephone calls to al-Qaida operatives overseas. But we did not know about their plans until it was too late. So to prevent another attack – based on authority given to me by the Constitution and by statute – I have authorized a terrorist surveillance program to aggressively pursue the international communications of suspected al-Qaida operatives and affiliates to and from America. Previous presidents have used the same constitutional authority I have – and Federal courts have approved the use of that authority. Appropriate Members of Congress have been kept informed. This terrorist surveillance program has helped prevent terrorist attacks. It remains essential to the security of America. If there are people inside our country who are talking with al-Qaida, we want to know about it – because we will not sit back and wait to be hit again.
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Join Red Room Forum
My Web Page | |
| | | | Re: President's words on this subject Translation to English:
We are monitoring you. However, we have no way of picking out what terrorist are planning, because they are not dumbasses. However we will continue to use the patriot act to spy on our on citizens, who do not take the same precautions, so are easier to convict. The terrorist surveillance program has been used to great success to build up a database of 'enemies of the state', and as president, I get to ignore the constitution, and define 'enemy' as I see fit. (So my friends at halburton can make more money). P.S. I'm such a dumbass, if we do get hit again, the entire republican party is going to look like morons. And if we don't get hit, the entire republican party looks like the secret police. We lose either way. | |
| | | | | Re: President's words on this subject would a terriost in these days really use a phone or email when they know they will be tracked I dont think so plus they use throw away phones if they use a phone whats next reading mail(postal)sent to and from oversea's | |
| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: President's words on this subject said by odreian615:would a terriost in these days really use a phone or email when they know they will be tracked I dont think so plus they use throw away phones if they use a phone whats next reading mail(postal)sent to and from oversea's Which is exactly why the persons who leaked this information to the press should be convicted and executed for treason. They provided aid and comfort to the enemy. I just hope when they are caught there are at least 2 people who will testify against them so that they can indeed be convicted of treason.
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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| | | | Translation to English:
We are monitoring you. However, we have no way of picking out what terrorist are planning, because they are not dumbasses. However we will continue to use the patriot act to spy on our on citizens, who do not take the same precautions, so are easier to convict. The terrorist surveillance program has been used to great success to build up a database of 'enemies of the state', and as president, I get to ignore the constitution, and define 'enemy' as I see fit. (So my friends at halburton can make more money). P.S. I'm such a dumbass, if we do get hit again, the entire republican party is going to look like morons. And if we don't get hit, the entire republican party looks like the secret police. We lose either way.
Meds... TAKE your meds. | |
| | | | | | Re: President's words on this subject I guess you really haven't done any research on they way that the NSA works. When the NSA does its so called intelligence gathering on foreign Government and allies. It pulls down everything then filters from there, everything that is encrypted or diplomatic is set aside for analysis no matter who its from. It would be against there M.O. to do anything other then that. The fact that Bush didn't seek any warrants speaks to that idea that they where pulling down anything and everything they could on everyone within America. And the Department of Homeland Security has opened people’s mail that had nothing to do with terrorism.
Wake up | |
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| | Right, Rights? Its really amazing all of you bleeding liberals will stand up and say yea this is entirely wrong and AT&T should pay for what they did. In reality you probably werent even affected...
Yet daily your computer is attacked by spyware, and hackers and virus and malicious programs that invade your privacy, steal your identity, and yet you say and do nothing about it. Oh God the sky is falling the sky is falling!!! is what you cry. Yet daily your rights have already been taken away because all you do is scream bloody murder, yet the murder took place 10 years ago.
Stop your hypocrisy, open your eyes and realize your rights have long since been denied. Quit nitpicking on one instance and realize you have already lost your right.... | |
| |  cfm117
join:2004-02-13
Woodland Hills, CA | Re: Right, Rights? You all want to be safe and live your day to day lives like nothings going on,but be the first to complain about the manner this is being done. Ill bet after the next terrorist attack that strikes the U.S, the same people will be saying "Well, we should have done more,maybe better intel,more electronic surveillance, more of everything." If the government listened in on some shithead calling from L.A to Iran, to make sure we dont get attacked again, so be it. | |
| | |  golgoj4
join:2005-10-19
Los Angeles, CA | When did Americans give up? Wow, I didnt realize there were so many Americans that were pre-dispositioned to live under a dictatorship complete with secret police. I recommend Russia or even China, that way you dont have to deal with us pesky Patriots who believe the government doesnt have the right to spy. I would recommend Afghanistan too but shucks, freedom is on the march there too.
btw, my gov't file is
|-------------------this thick----------------| | |
| | | | | | Re: When did Americans give up? This is where terrorism is succeeding. The government may have,(I say may have), stopped some attacks with the new methods, but at what cost to our freedoms. If the government continues to erode the constitution and the laws of this country, terrorists won't have to come here to win the war, we are winning it for them. | |
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| | cfm117
join:2004-02-13
Woodland Hills, CA | Re: Right, Rights? The people who want to destroy the U.S are also engrained in our society, wait for orders to detonate a school bus or drive a truck laden w/ explosives into a shopping center in YOUR hometown. These people have to be removed from our society surgically. One of the first things realized after 9/11 is that the way we conduct our normal lives has changed forever if we want to try to prevent another attack in respect to security and privacy issues. Im not for blanketed /random wire taps or anything like that. These people who were targeted, were targeted for a reason by the NSA. Like someone said up above this post, if you think your rights are being violated now, wait till the next attack. Im not anybody's cool-aid drinker, I like to think independently on each issue. At almost every turn in the anti-terror war, there is some wacko organization screaming someones rights were violated, from the "freedom fighters" @ Guantanamo Bay to Cindy Sheehan being taken out of the House last night and "tortured and beaten by the police." | |
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BBC4544
join:2002-03-12
Saint Peters, MO | missing the point YOU do NOT have the right to privacy outside of the U.S. . ALL these NSA taps they did not get warrants were international calls NOT domestic. Wait and see that is what they will hang their hat on. When you call overseas you forfeit your right to privacy. You are transmitting information to an entity outside the borders of the U.S. . | |
|  tmpchaosRequiescat in pacePremium,Mod
join:2000-04-28
Hoboken, NJ | (topic offline) NSA
Moderator Action
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently. | |
| | | Now why would you do that, Mr moderator? Did the fed spooks show up in their sunglasses? | |
| | | | Re: Now why
And, yes, I did notice that there seems to have been a number of posts suddenly and mysteriously removed from this thread. | |
| | | | | Re: Now why And a few that never made it on. Heh. So much for my rant about giving up free speech. | |
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nonner9
join:2005-10-14
Charlotte, NC | damages what were the damages? | |
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