 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Very true! I'm saying this for long time... | |
|  | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON | Re: Very true! They are stealing our grammar as well!
Bastards... | |
| | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
| Re: Very true! said by Shark_615  :They are stealing our grammar as well! Bastards... Especially if we are immmigrants, of course... | |
| | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL | Is it rehash Thursday ? I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA . | |
| | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
1 edit | Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by JSRoman :I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Which has nothing to do with the original post. Thank you for your contriubution.
Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA .
Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge?
Wake me up when you've posted something meaningful... | |
| | | | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by kamm :Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge? The point is that broadband availability and technological availability are unrelated to GDP.
»www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.html
The per capita GDP of the USA(#4) is far above that of Japan(#22) and South Korea(#51). Japan and SK both have had better broadband options (and a more direct availability of things "higher tech") than the USA for awhile, but this has not resulted in either country overtaking the USA in per capita GDP.
»www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.html
The total GDP of the USA is also greater than... well... everyone 
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
| | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind.
--
Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | | noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
1 edit | Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything?
Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios)
Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries.
I await your response.
Edit: Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same thing. | |
| | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by noone1 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios) Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries. I await your response. 1. There are no studies on this topic yet... The last mile network problem hasn't become a major issue yet.
2. READ what I posted... "America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer..." That's not a statement that says it WILL suffer, but that our anemic last mile networks may affect the next generation of services and tools that haven't come out. Strange factors have affected the economic progress of nations in the past before.
--
Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | | | | noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
1 edit | Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by bmn :said by noone1 :1. There are no studies on this topic yet... The last mile network problem hasn't become a major issue yet. 2. READ what I posted... "America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer..." That's not a statement that says it WILL suffer, but that our anemic last mile networks may affect the next generation of services and tools that haven't come out. Strange factors have affected the economic progress of nations in the past before. If there are no studies even to provide a basis of informed decision then how can you even make the claim that it "may very well suffer"? No one knows, arguments bases on pure conjecture hold no water beyond the proffering of a concept. While this does have limited validity within the concept of discussion, it credibility dies at the first mention of "show me". Again, I apologize for singling you out within this thread but it goes to prove a point, all the ranting (loosely used term) in the world is useless if the problem does not exist. | |
| | | | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by noone1 :If there are no studies even to provide a basis of informed decision then how can you even make the claim that it "may very well suffer"? Well, if one watches the technology that's in the works, like IPTV, home automation, etc and realizes that those technologies, in combinations with the emergence of VoIP and IPTV, are going to need some hefty connections, one can see how the last mile network's condition may affect the marketability of those technologies down the line. If it doesn't work, people aren't ging to buy it until it does.
No one knows, arguments bases on pure conjecture hold no water beyond the proffering of a concept. While this does have limited validity within the concept of discussion, it credibility dies at the first mention of "show me".
Again, I apologize for singling you out within this thread but it goes to prove a point, all the ranting (loosely used term) in the world is useless if the problem does not exists. While I admit there is some conjecture on my part, its an educated and informed observation... I'm merely taking a look at what the future in technology holds, like outlined above, and being a system/network admin, I'm aware that bandwidth needs are going to starting to grow. You put them together and you have a problem where available bandwidth prevents the development of new services and markets.
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Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | | | | | 
rawwhide
Zer0
Premium
join:2000-09-03
Zero
clubs:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Broadband Internet access is recognized as a critical component of our global communications infrastructure, and significant public policy reforms and proactive programs are in place and under consideration to ensure continued investment to make broadband services competitively available to all U.S. citizens. There is an on-going debate regarding whether there is a broadband digital divide, whether emphasis should shift from concern over service availability to usage (penetration), and whether markets or direct government interventions would most effectively promote broadband growth.
To date, these discussions have suffered from a lack of solid empirical data measuring the
economic impact of broadband. This is not surprising given the daunting data and methodological challenges with measuring the economic effects of information technology generally (e.g., the “Solow Productivity Paradox") and of broadband, in particular. Assembling good comparable data on the economic effects of IT is difficult, and on a microlevel (firm or community-level data), data sources are quite limited.17 The problem is further aggravated by the lack of appropriate data to measure the extent of broadband usage. The FCC's zip-code data on broadband availability since December 1999 offers the best publicly available community-level indication of the extent of national broadband deployment. Unfortunately, penetration data is only available at the state-level which we believe is too aggregated to offer reliable estimates of broadband's economic impacts.18 Finally, at this early stage in the growth of broadband and the inevitable lag in publishing reliable economic performance data, it has been too early to be able to produce empirically sound estimates of broadband's economic impacts. While it is still early, this paper offers some preliminary estimates utilizing the economic data in the biennial business Census from 2002 (the most recent date for which data is available). We match this with earlier Census data and with the FCC data on broadband availability to produce a panel data sample with which to identify potential impacts of broadband on economic activity (employment, wages,
and industry structure).
The analysis we present here supports the view that broadband access does enhance economic growth and performance. We find that between 1998 and 2002 (see Table 15), communities in which mass-market broadband was available by December 1999 experienced more rapid growth in (1) employment, (2) the number of businesses overall, and (3) businesses in IT-intensive sectors. In addition, the effect of broadband availability by 1999 can be observed in higher market rates for rental housing in 2000. This analysis is perforce preliminary because additional data and experience are needed to more accurately address this important question; however, the early results presented here suggest that the assumed (and oft-touted) economic impacts of broadband are both real and measurable.
There are several clear implications for policy-makers. First, all of those who have been spending their time worrying about promoting broadband should take comfort that their efforts are not in vain.
Second, while the initial evidence suggests that there are significant economic impacts, more research is needed to enhance the quality of these measures. An especially pressing problem is the need for better microdata on how broadband is being used and on the quality of broadband. The current definition of what constitutes broadband sets a pretty low threshold that does not adequately distinguish between services that are only marginally better than legacy dialup and real next generation broadband services that offer data rates of multiple MBps. Additionally, knowing that broadband is available is not as useful as knowing whether and how it is being used, or the state of broadband competition (which also will require better data on pricing and market shares). Such data is inherently sensitive to collect, and so conducting rigorous empirical analyses with which to inform public communications policy debates is challenging. Nevertheless, such work is important and needs to be done if we are to frame effective policy. Cross-national studies of broadband, more case studies, and multidisciplinary research that jointly considers technical, business, and policy issues are needed to understand this critical aspect of our global information infrastructure. The good news is that as researchers we anticipate having an important agenda of issues to address into the future.
Measuring Broadband’s Economic Impact
Do a little bit of searching and well look what we find!
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HUH!!! Sekurecom | |
| | | | | | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
4 edits | said by noone1 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Then compare this to the next generation communications that are rolling out right now and their impact on "last mile" penetration. (EVDO, 1/2/3xRTT, Fios) ROFL, EVDO as somthing advanced thing? LOL... Compare it to Europe: even former Commie countries have similar speeds available for long time - in some you can already order 10-20Mbit ADSL2+ or cable connections, unlike here.
Generally speaking US is clearly behind most of the developed world (ie West EU, Japan, Korea) - if somebody don't see this, he's living in denial. : we have an awkward, anti-competitive monopoly in most of the US markets and that's why we are waaaay behind.
Heck, there's no other country where a corporation would dare to try to openly block muni developments, not to mention no state legislation would block competition by law... and let's not get into the totally rotten and corrupt big business-employee, the FCC's actions...
Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries.
I await your response.
This is probably the most ridiculous excuse and pro-corporate, pro-monopoly guys love to post it.
To shortly rebuke this idiocy, two things:
1. according to 2004 census daTA, over 80% of US population live in metropolitan areas which are the perfect places for en masse broadband deployment
2. look at Canada
I await your response... FYI: I expect you to prove me somehow magically that 80% already have *real* broadband (real = not the artifically inflated, laughable broadband definition of FCC)
Edit: Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same thing.
Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. | |
| | | | | | | | noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by kamm :Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything?
Show me how we are falling behind as a result of this and not conjecture. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by noone1 :said by kamm :Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Show me how we are falling behind as a result of this and not conjecture. Umm WTF are we talking about, seriously?  Go and search for available services in Japan, Korea, France, Sweden, Holland, UK, Germany or even Hungary or Poland.
It's not rocket science, no need for "whitepaper" and "peer reviewed journals" (What an idiocy: 'peer review" on actual service offerings! ROFL!) - if you weren't kidding, then obviously you have zero knowledge on this industry.
Apparently you're not only ignorant on this particular subject but also too lazy to do a search, right? :P :P | |
| | | | | | | | | | noone1
join:2004-06-04
Nashua, NH
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by kamm :said by noone1 :said by kamm :Sorry to single you out amongst the many who are claiming basically the same false crap. Do you have any studies or proof to back this up? Please provide evidence to this, white papers, publications, peer reviewed journals, anything? Show me how we are falling behind as a result of this and not conjecture. Umm WTF are we talking about, seriously? Go and search for available services in Japan, Korea, France, Sweden, Holland, UK, Germany or even Hungary or Poland.It's not rocket science, no need for "whitepaper" and "peer reviewed journals" (What an idiocy: 'peer review" on actual service offerings! ROFL!) - if you weren't kidding, then obviously you have zero knowledge on this industry. Apparently you're not only ignorant on this particular subject but also too lazy to do a search, right? :P :P said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. Not that its a bad thing, but its something to keep in mind. This is the original post in this part of the thread that I was responding to.
I never contended that service offerings were different.
Why dont you actually take the time to read before pressing the reply button.
My contention is no one knows just how much (or little) any differences in network accessibility is hurting (or not) the US. I see many making conjecture but nothing more. It is easy to scream the sky is falling, is it, how much, what truly are the implications.
said by kamm :Umm WTF are we talking about, seriously? Try reading, its not rocket science. | |
| | | | | | | Briggs6
join:2004-10-05
Boring, OR
1 edit | said by noone1 :Then balance that versus the US population density per square kilometer against the target countries. Even large cities in America don't have Asian/European like speeds available for average consumers. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband.
Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't.
--
Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
| | | | | | | wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by pnh102 :said by bmn :The US GDP might be high right now, but beware... America's ability to outproduce may very well suffer in the future if the country's last mile networks stay at their current subpar level. The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband. Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't. You are correct in that it is not a panacea. There is no "silver bullet" that will magically lift an area from abject poverty to Trumpian wealth overnight.
Having said that, broadband, I think, is fast becoming a precondition (along with transportation, good education, good government), that enables an area to begin to make the transition. A prerequisite, but as you note, not a guarantee of success.
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That which does not kill me merely prolongs the agony. | |
| | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by pnh102 :The main reason that I don't agree with this assessment is that there are many areas like inner cities, certain poor rural areas and the like which do have high speed Internet access but are still in the same wretched economic state that they were in prior to getting broadband. Well, that's because you are only looking at broadband in relation to their economic state... You examination of how they are related is flawed. Broadband isn't going to lift people out of poverty by itself. So to say that the discoonect between wired areas and their economic state is some sort of proof that broadband doesn't have economic influence is fallacious.
Broadband is being sold as some sort of panacea for every little problem out there when it really isn't. Indeed. But that doesn't change the fact that America's lagging position in the broadband world may very well hurt the economy.
--
Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | |
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| said by pnh102 :said by kamm :Ummm what GDP has to do with taking the technological edge? The point is that broadband availability and technological availability are unrelated to GDP. » www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.htmlThe per capita GDP of the USA(#4) is far above that of Japan(#22) and South Korea(#51). Japan and SK both have had better broadband options (and a more direct availability of things "higher tech") than the USA for awhile, but this has not resulted in either country overtaking the USA in per capita GDP. » www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac···ank.htmlThe total GDP of the USA is also greater than... well... everyone Which still has nothing to do with the more advanced technological standpoint. yes.
OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. | |
| | | | | | Briggs6
join:2004-10-05
Boring, OR
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by kamm :OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. Someone needs to look up what "per capita" means. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
·T-Mobile US
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? said by Briggs6 :said by kamm :OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. Someone needs to look up what "per capita" means. Or perhaps someone still has to grasp that 'per capita' doesn't mean equal distribution too?  | |
| | | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by Briggs6 :said by kamm :OTOH you can have better GDP yet piss-poor people with not enough job etc etc. GDP proves nothing here, FYI. Someone needs to look up what "per capita" means. Per capita simply means the total GDP over the total population divided by 1000. Its usefulness is limited to comparing GDP between nations only because it can not show the actual distribution of GDP to individuals. The share of GDP on a per person basis varies widely. For example, if you have a few very wealthy people, they can inflate the per capita GDP for a nation. That's why kamm 's statement holds water.
--
Too logical to be a conservative... Too practical to be a liberal... Too realistic to be a Libertarian. | |
| | | | | 
richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Unfortunately I could not format the columns, instead I use comas. The data comes form ITU for broadband per 100 (2003) and the GDP per Capata (2004) and GDP growth rate (2005 est.) comes from the world fact book. It seems the idea that Increase broadband results in increase GDP is busted. Interesting is Korea, while fist in broadband it last in GDP in this list.
Broad band Ranking,Country,Broad band per 100 (2003),GDP Per Capata,GDP Groth Rate
1, Korea (rep) ,23.3, $19,200, 3.7
2,Hong Kong China ,18 ,$34,200 , 7
3, Canada ,14.8 ,$31,500 , 2.8
4, Iceland ,14.5, $31,900, 5.9
5, Taiwan, 13.4, $25,300 , 3.6
6, Denmark,13.1 ,$32,200, 2.2
7, Belgium ,12.4, $30,600, 1.5
8,Japan,11.7,$29,400 , 2.1
9, Netherlands,11.6 ,$29,500, 0.6
10, Switzerland ,11.4 ,$33,800, 1.2
11 Sweden ,10.6 $28,400, 2.4
12 *Singapore, 10.1, $27,800, 4.5
13 USA, 3.8,$40,100 , 3.5
14 Israel, 3.6,$20,800, 4.3
15 Finland , 3.6 ,$29,000, 1.7 | |
| | | | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
1 edit | Article states that lack of universal broadband will basically hurt financially. I have no idea how old you are but I've been hearing that Asians countries are going to eat us up for the last 20 years. Hasn't happened. Yea mega speeds at low price would be nice but it is not the end of the world if everyone in the US doesn't have the option of getting cheap, ultra broadband service. The reason I stated some Universities is because that is where a lot of breakthroughs happen and most of these schools are running on the so called Internet 2 with super dooper speeds. Hope that helps.
edited for spelling | |
| | | | | joshpo
join:2002-09-24
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: Is it rehash Thursday ? I think you are missing the point of the article. The author argues that broadband is a utility because more and more services will be delivered over broadband connections in coming years. This isn't about having the fastest connection so you won't lag in CS. In other words its not about having superior connections to Japan etc, its the fact that there are many people in the US who have no access to broadband at all. (And no, Direcway is NOT broadband!) | |
| | | voyager6868
join:2003-01-29
Lynnwood, WA
·Bell Sympatico
| said by JSRoman :I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all runing on dialup. Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA . Ummm. By the time Japan or S. Korea are beating the US in GDP, it'll be way too late to do anything about it. If you don't act before it happens, then you're screwed.
Take a look at China, for example--imagine where they will be in 10 years compared to the US. | |
| | | 
oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | You know DSLR eds day isn't perfect without a good America Sucks news item. | |
| | | 
cdigioia
Premium
join:2005-06-08
korea, repub
·Korea Telecom
| said by JSRoman :I guess MIT,Harvard,Yale,Northwestern etc... are all running on dialup. Wake me up when Japan or S. Korea have a greater GDP than USA . [/BQUOTE There are many things that contribute to how high a nation's GDP will be. Broadband availability is probably one of those things. Japan, etc. do have better broadband. Fortunately enough we have a lot of other better things, so overall we have higher GDP per capita. We have better GDP despite the lower broadband, just because we're the best overall, doesn't mean we should ignore our own deficiencies, its a competitive world. | |
| | 
packetscan
Premium
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT
clubs: | Re: Very true! I'm with you I've been saying this for "MANY" years now.
--
Who do you want to pay off today? | |
| | Sailor Enlil
join:2006-01-12
Philippines
| Indeed. I live in the Philippines where Broadband, especially DSL and WiFi, is being rolled out like hotcakes. In fact ADSL can be had for really cheap now (one Telco, which has nationwide coverage, is markerting a package to highschool students - the package provides 384kbps unlimited usage for just around $20 a month; my subscription package, which comes from the same Telco, goes for 1Mbps at $60 a month, though a competitor is recently offering twice the bandwidth at the same price). | |
| 
Figures2006
@nc.us
| Go figure ... Perhaps if less attention was paid to corporate greed, outsourcing resources to foreign countries, the Middle East and the lame Space program, then maybe more companies would have the sense to participate in more realistic projects such as alternative fuels and network developments, such as high speed broadband. Nah, makes too much sense, would never work in the US and, at a minimum, would require massive amounts of regulations and political kickbacks. | |
| 
scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| As long as lobbyists in Washington... ..have their way, decisions will be made for the best interests of companies and not citizens. Campaign finance reform needs to happen, and funding from lobbying groups needs to be cut down to a quarter of what it is now. These special interest groups for the telcos will encourage our politicians to only slow our advances in the broadband market by passing asinine laws on preventing municipal broadband. This article clearly shows how that small town in Indiana saved itself from economic collapse by taking matters into their own hands. I can't fault broadband companies for not laying in areas if their is no profit to be made, but if they won't do it, local governments should have the right to..
Sessions also needs to take a seat and shut his soup-cooler. If he wants to ban municipalities from deploying broadband at the cost of the taxpayer/private bonds then he can do that all he wants....in his own state. Passing Federal regulations such as the one he is trying to pass only creates a bigger bureaucratic Federal government, something Republicans are supposed to be against. The issue of local broadband should be up to the local and county governments, not the Federal and Sessions needs to keep his special interest in SBC out of the Federal government... | |
| 
rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Broadband not Electricity of 21st Century I think the author's assumptions of economic ramifications are incorrect since not having broadband access in rural areas probably doesn't impact development of applications, products, services and {insert buzzword here }. The fact is you can get broadband in most urban and suburban areas in the US. These are the high tech centers. There are some folks (especially in rural areas) that will probably never want broadband in their lifetimes, unless cable and/or telephony goes 100% IP. If and when that happens, it will be the telcos and cable companies that will by default deliver some form of broadband as its the underlying transport of the service.
I think the hand-wringing over broadband coverage in regards to international competition is unfounded and overstated. The applications will drive broadband into un-served areas in the US, not the other way around. | |
| | jdracer47
join:2005-10-16
Auburn, PA
| Re: Broadband not Electricity of 21st Century Those are pretty strong assumptions made by someone from a fairly rural area of PA themselves. Ever think about the impact on education of the area's children? Think any of those kids will end up in a tech field, or are they all destined to drive a forklift or work in a coal mine for the rest of their lives. Yeah, screw the rural areas, like the Judge said in Caddyshack, "the world needs ditch diggers too". I personally would like my kids to have the same opportunities to be whatever they want to be when they grow up and not technologically oppressed since we don't make the profit margin list for the local monopoly.
My rural area was the first to force Verizon to deploy DSL with over 15% of consumers signing up for 1 year of DSL service through the BFRR. That is with no guarantee of the cost, there are hundreds waiting for it to be deployed to keep their options open. All areas have SOME people who will never sign up, it is unfair to assume that urbanites are more willing to adopt broadband than everyone in a rural area though. | |
| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | can u say auto industry? sure u can!
I'm sure there was a group that was dismissive of asian auto manufacturers EVER being the equals of the U.S. auto industry.
And now, asian automakers are poised to overtake the U.S. industry, if they haven't already. | |
| |
See 8 replies to this post | |
Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Stupid Topic Since apparently it's ok to rehashthe exact same story over and over again, I'm going to continue giving the same answer:
Wake me when any of these countries that are "ahead" of the U.S. have anywhere near the deployment challenges to deal with. Not the surface area, not the lack of population density, and not the pre-existing networks and conditions (in many of these other areas worldwide, they simply rolled out fiber form the get-go because they were behind at the time).
Then we'll talk.
Until then, please shut up and stop whining just because you don't have a T3 directly to your desktop yet so you be l33t h0rd3 on WoW. Nobody cares. | |
| | 
BonezX
Basement Dweller
Premium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | Re: Stupid Topic Canada is ahead of the states in terms of broadband deployment. | |
| | | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI | Re: Stupid Topic Canada also is very different population and density-wise from the US. So it's still apples and oranges. Most of the Canadian population resides in several small areas by comparison.
It's still a stupid topic. | |
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qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Fort Worth, TX | I know.. Since this seems to be AT LEAST a weekly news article, why not just save some time and create a front page "sticky" with the title "Latest Article Why America is Loosing the Broadband Race". You could also put an "Ignore" button, too. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: I know.. I guess they temporarily ran out of "FIOS is only deployed in rich areas" and "it's cloudy because Bush and Texas stole all the sunshine" articles.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Mike_9961
@aliant.net
| Asia has a more dense population Since the U.S has very many neighbourhoods which have houses far apart, and many different networks its virturally impossible to keep up with japan and its dense population. They are all close to the co's and most likely on one network this insures no slow routers and extremly high bandwidth. Its not that these extremely fast networks are not available to americans its the distance, money and density of population and also the ammount of different networks. If you are pinging from canada to the us you are sure to hit a slow router vise versa. Thats why japans net, sweedens and other countrys with blisteringly fast net dont have as much problems. There is one network, not 50 different networks spanned across a large area. | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY | Its called all the greedy companies The problem is all the greedy companies. Any attempt to bring broadband to the masses gets shot down by companies like verizon.
I am still amazed at how I have 15/2 internet when there are a lot of people who dont have even half that. | |
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lonnyb
lurking no longer
Premium
join:2004-01-25
Elizabethtown, KY
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Continuous quality improvement In the early '80's a man named "Deming" approached USA's big auto makers and said that they can make their products better by *the subject* and they said get out of here you pipsqueak!! We are the biggest vehicle makers in the world. The Japanese auto makers embraced his ideas and have been kicking our hind ends ever since. Please see - »www.ccqi.com/pages/Profiles.htm and click on the "Deming" link. I see some of you saying the availability of broadband doesn't matter and some of you say see I told you so - it is crucial. I really don't know but we shouldn't be complacent and hide behind our formidable GDP. And when we plan ahead - perhaps we should be more like our Asian friends and plan further than next week. When our Asian friends formulate strategic plans - they plan decades, even generations, into the future. (I am preaching to myself - I detest planning ahead!!) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Yeah, another repeat »Yawn...another slow news day...
»Re: Not this AGAIN!
PLEASE...it's called NEWs for a reason. If you want to put up items like this, create and OLDs section.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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signmeuptoo
Tune in to XM 120. BOO
Premium
join:2001-11-22
LOSTinSpace
clubs:
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
·AT&T Southeast
| We are behind partly because we are... ...we are spread out over a very large area. Population desnity isn't like it is in the EU or in the developed Asian nations.
We aren't completely behind. For instance, the guy that came and installed my phone laughed when I lamented that we are so far behind in bandwidth and technology, that S. Korea is well ahead of us. He laughed and commented that much of S. Korea doesn't even have telephone service. If that is true, things aren't all bad.
OTOH, whenever the USA falls behind in any given industry, we tend to lose the creative edge that has created new industries and new jobs. IMHO, we need a national "moonshot" where our government sets a federal mandate that our countries state counties/parishes establish Fiber to the Home everywhere, by first developing County owned Fiber Central Offices not owned by any private company.
*Then*, as time progresses, communities gradually get fibered up to it. Service providers would then pay to have respective hardware/backbone presences at those COs which would help fund the project, if not fully fund it. Federal seed money would be needed. A federal law preventing Telcos and Cablecos from blocking or introducing federal and/or state legislation against this happening would first need to be passed.
If this were taken on my our nation, a huge number of new jobs would be created, new companies would sprout up, contractors would compete to mainstain the COs and FTTH cables. New technologies would sprout forth. New products taking advantage of the great bandwidth would come into existance, such as internetted refriderators (maybe that idea is lame, but who knows what products might take good advantage of National Country Run FTTH.
The really exciting thing is that the Service providers would not have to make a truck roll to the Optic CO to "hookup" the customer, as everything could happen via simple MAC type addressing/Passwords/yada yada.
This way, a person in Paducca, KY could get Time-Warner TV service even if T-W was otherwise only available in, Say Tennessee nearby.
Some have decried my idea here as stupid, but it isn't. When the nation got wired for telephone service, it WAS a national program, so many many decades ago. Sometimes the way to get the ball running is not free enterprise directly, but the government spurring free enterprise on.
The space program is an example. We wouldn't be as far along as we are if NASA had not been formed when it was. Now, decades later, Free enterprise interests are doing some of what NASA started, but it wouldn't have happened so soon if Kennedy hadn't worked towards the formation of NASA.
We need this. We need a presidential candidate that realises the federal spending can actually reduce taxes over all by creating new tax paying industries that allow for lower federal taxes etc. Federal research and developments is critical to America's immediate future, and we need leaders desperately that have the vision to realize this, or the middle class will continue to fade and the poor will increase because there will be that many less jobs for them. Not everyone can go to college or has the aptitude to.
Thus, we need Country Owned and contractor maintained FTTH that providers pay leases to access. It would be a monstrous boone to our economy.
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God Bless us all. Pray for the starving in the world. Pray the Rogue nation's change their ways and our nation can resolve to not force itself always on others. Protect Taiwan from China. Peace to the world. | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | Re: We are behind partly because we are... You're high if you believe all of this crap. | |
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Slowsky
It's ALL relative
Premium
join:2004-07-31
Pelham, NH
| said by signmeuptoo :.... . . we need a national "moonshot" where our government sets a federal mandate uh-HYUH!! Yipper-dee DO, that's the gol-durn sew-lew-shun we'all wuz missun---ain't it purty? Hood'a no'd how simpalistical it'd be fer usn' r kin t'all git that-ther hay-seed. . er, hay-speed . . . er, well, that there Brawad feller n'is Band EVER'WARE--in th'AIR!
Then let them brainy hyskooler intelektulz comense ther feudin' n' D-bate'n regardin that homeland C-curity, cual-T a' R skoolz, th' fedral deafshit, n' all at there nonsens...
An' th' kreme on the kornbred--IT'LL DUN BE FER FREE!! CUZ TH' GUVMINTS
PAYIN FER'T!! | |
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American Broadband: Outclassed