 | | What's left? This sounds like it is now a Pork Bill. What use is this money going to? to help farmers herd cattle? And no stimulus to areas that can use higher speeds than 768kbs or 2Mbps ....
Where is the investment in Broadband or the promised higher speeds and special tax breaks for those companies who do invest in fiber or higher speeds?
" Cable-industry lobbyists complained that the 100Mbps watermark was too fast"
You mean they can't keep up? Who are they to decide what is too fast? Explain why other countries are putting out 1Gbps (GPON) why would these much smaller countries need it and yet the US doesn't????
What politicking .... Lobbyists win again. good job. Nice to know "YOUR" elected officials are keeping an eye out for you rather than their pocketbook....
Look at the facts: Congress members have a higher percentage of criminal record than the average person in NY City alone.
And these are the guys running a country that people put there. | |
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Road Runner
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| Re: What's left? This sounds like it is now a Pork Bill. Maybe. The mapping provision could be useful if done correctly. The problem with this country's approach to broadband has traditionally been follow up. The bill could contain a million brilliant propositions, but if nobody accurately maps broadband coverage, or nobody holds anybody accountable across a wide slew of well-lobbied agencies, it all means nothing. | |
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| |  Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| Re: What's left? said by Karl Bode:This sounds like it is now a Pork Bill. Maybe.The problem with this country's approach to broadband has traditionally been follow up. The bill could contain a million brilliant propositions, but if nobody accurately maps broadband coverage, or nobody holds anybody accountable across a wide slew of well-lobbied agencies, it all means nothing. You could replace "broadband" with just about anything 
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| | | | | Re: What's left? True, that. | |
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| | | | | | Re: What's left? "change we can believe in" must mean whats left in our pockets after a forty hour work week...Change.
I'd gladly give a kidney for a politician that actually knows what he/she is doing. This is just as painful as watching The View!
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"When I was in junior high school, the teachers voted me the student most likely to end up in the electric chair."---Sylvestor Stallone | |
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| | | | said by Karl Bode:This sounds like it is now a Pork Bill. Maybe. The mapping provision could be useful if done correctly. The problem with this country's approach to broadband has traditionally been follow up. The bill could contain a million brilliant propositions, but if nobody accurately maps broadband coverage, or nobody holds anybody accountable across a wide slew of well-lobbied agencies, it all means nothing.
Yes, sounds like the only thing in the bill that is worth while. | |
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| | | | | Re: What's left? So often on this site people complain about how South Korea is so far area of us in broadband deployment. South Korea's broadband is largely subsidized by their government. The problem is America is the lack of accountability with public funds.
Having worked for a couple of large corporations, accountability isn't that great in the private sector either. There are so many people publicly and privately there are unqualified in the jobs they are doing, or are just too lazy to take the time to learn. In the corporations I've worked at, making some arbitrary number was the only thing that mattered regardless of how that numbers was met.
I would like this stimulus to work, but the lack of accountability and greed will probably derail it. There is something about having access to a large sum of money that makes it hard for people to control themselves, especially free money. | |
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| | | said by Porky 33 :
Where is the investment in Broadband or the promised higher speeds and special tax breaks for those companies who do invest in fiber or higher speeds? Taken out, luckily. I hated that provision. Most large operators are already making healthy profits on broadband. The largest would have recieved tax money to line their profits more as it was previously written because they have a rollout of "next-gen" internet going (mainly just in large cities). We would have basically been paying them twice and that was a really stupid idea.
What they need to do is press for more competition and prevent companies from trying to derail munis (especially in areas that most companies would never serve without regulation anyway).
I don't see much of that in there, but at least better broadband mapping will be a start.
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- "Techie" Jim | |
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| me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | some areas can't get 768k for less than $80 a month, i'm one of the people there, I would LOVE 2m for $50 or less. | |
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| | | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: What's left? Well we its $70 BEFORE taxes, I'm guessing closer to $80 after it maybe more like 75-77. its wireless, but they ALWAYS give you what you pay for I pay for 512 down now($45 a month) and I GET 512 down, it works with VoIP and the pings and pacet loss are about the same as cable. I would love 20/20 for $92 I could drop dish and save about $25 a month, 20/1 would work too, i don't do much uploading, other than normal web surfing. | |
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| | elray
join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| said by me1212:some areas can't get 768k for less than $80 a month, i'm one of the people there, I would LOVE 2m for $50 or less. I don't get it. If the market in your area is so sparse that it costs $80/month for 768K, what is the problem? You choose to live there.
Why are the taxpayers supposed to subsidize you? | |
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| | |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: What's left? said by elray:said by me1212:some areas can't get 768k for less than $80 a month, i'm one of the people there, I would LOVE 2m for $50 or less. I don't get it. If the market in your area is so sparse that it costs $80/month for 768K, what is the problem? You choose to live there. Why are the taxpayers supposed to subsidize you? Because he voted for Obama, thats why. 
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: What's left? I cannot vote, yet not 18, also I never said the tax payer should help, just that I want less costly internet. BTW I would have voted for Mcain. | |
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| | | | | wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Re: What's left? said by me1212:I cannot vote, yet not 18, also I never said the tax payer should help, just that I want less costly internet. BTW I would have voted for Mcain. You might not want to hear this, but if you think there is enough market for high speed internet where you live start your own WISP. If you really feel there is demand, you can purchase 'wisp in a box' kits for a few thousand bucks (even less for lower quality/home brew gear).
As for McCain, I voted for him too even though I would have preferred a better candidate. 
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
-Ronald Reagan-
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| | | I am glad they dropped tax breaks for Verizon. Verizon has already collected enough from taxpayers over the years. Time for other providers to get a chance to build their networks. | |
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|  BIGMIKEPremium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA | said by Porky 33 :
This sounds like it is now a Pork Bill. What use is this money going to? to help farmers herd cattle? And no stimulus to areas that can use higher speeds than 768kbs or 2Mbps ....
Where is the investment in Broadband or the promised higher speeds and special tax breaks for those companies who do invest in fiber or higher speeds?
" Cable-industry lobbyists complained that the 100Mbps watermark was too fast"
You mean they can't keep up? Who are they to decide what is too fast? Explain why other countries are putting out 1Gbps (GPON) why would these much smaller countries need it and yet the US doesn't????
What politicking .... Lobbyists win again. good job. Nice to know "YOUR" elected officials are keeping an eye out for you rather than their pocketbook....
Look at the facts: Congress members have a higher percentage of criminal record than the average person in NY City alone.
And these are the guys running a country that people put there.
I got a bridge for sale...... | |
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| wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | No kidding its pork! I am not sure what anyone else expected to be honest. It really doesnt shock me all that much, and anyone who is shocked needs a reality check. The real question is how this will impact us long term; is it the end or the beginning? Welcome to the next four years people! I expect pork to be the norm going forward, so hang on for the ride. | |
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| | | Re: Dept Agriculture has poor record on using funds for broadban Rural electric co-ops are pretty good though. We are serviced by one (Sussex REC) and they are by far the best utility I've ever had service from. | |
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| | iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Re: Dept Agriculture has poor record on using funds for broadban Heard of Stelera Wireless? There are a few others, but there are a few companies who are using USDA funds for rolling out broadband, mostly wireless, to underserved areas. OTOH we're talking about low-speed offerings; Stelera AFAIK is the fastest right now, and they're just using HSDPA. Maybe HSPA. | |
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| | | Senator Harkin (D-Iowa) is a clown. He originally added a $75 Million provision to the stimulus for the prevention of smoking.
»www.islandpacket.com/opinion/let···282.html
He even went on CNN to defend it. Republican or Democrat it doesn't matter the political process is broken and easy to be influenced by self interest and preserving power. A congressman or senator has to be on a committee to have any real say so. They can't be on a committee unless they play ball with the senior party leaders. Because legislation is written in committees, that newly elected "I'm gonna change Washington" politician becomes like the rest of them. I'm not referring to Barack Obama specifically, it goes for ANYONE elected.
Unless Americans start voting out incumbents or for a third party, nothing will ever change. I fear that will never happen because Americans have become polarized and easy to manipulate. | |
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approval from:
old_dawg 
| Re: Dept Agriculture has poor record on using funds for broadban And this is one Pennsylvanian who will be voting out Arlen Spector in 2010. He's been an idiot for too long, but his democratic opponent has usually been even less palatable. Not any more, Arlen needs to be retired. To bad we can't cancel his pension that he didn't earn. | |
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| lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Re: 100mbps is too fast? said by jadebangle:The only thing America is good at is using the most gasoline and having the biggest car with the biggest engine in the world. The biggest gas consumer will become the poorest nation in the world. American company that complain about 100mb as being too fast is idiotic and laugable at best.  You left out whining from those the subscribe to the philosophy of "Ask not what you can do for your country but what your country can do for you"! | |
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| |  LegoPower77AbecedarianPremium
join:2002-08-03
Midlothian, VA | Re: 100mbps is too fast? It's, "Ask not what your country can do for you: demand it." | |
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 jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·voip.ms
| The Real Cost How much of the pork spending in this bill is one time stimulus, and how much is just growing government permanently?
How much is it going to cost to maintain the broadband coverage map year after year? Do they get their own building in Washington DC?
What happens when Karl disagrees with the job that agency is doing and starts calling for a complete overhaul of the map again in 5 years? | |
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| | 6.7kbps to the U.S. House of Representatives
It's a little more than funny that I'm downloading the conference report PDFs from the U.S. House of Representatives at a maximum speed of 6.7kbps.
Fitting. | |
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1 edit | Re: 6.7kbps to the U.S. House of Representatives They're probably overloaded because Michelle Malkin and others slashdotted them. | |
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 Duramax08A Challenger AppearsPremium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX | I wants internets pl0x Deploy broadband in my area pl0x, I is unserved
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OM NOM NOM | |
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|  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: I wants internets pl0x | |
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plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY | 350 million dollars.. to find out who has broadband? seriously? | |
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|  tshirtPremium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:3
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: 350 million dollars.. said by plat2on1:to find out who has broadband? seriously? That's probably the best INVESTMENT, in the whole broadband section.
setting up a long term comprehensive measurement system, is the only way to know where and how to spend future funds (this isn't the last money we'll see spent on broadband or overall stimulus BTW)
The entire bill is a shotgun/blunderbuss fired in the dark, hoping enough it hits something for effect to jump restart the economy.
Do you think anyone really went out a measure how many feet of fiber/cable/ switches/etc. it would take to "wire" america and then checked the price lists, contractor rates, etc? No the house made their guesstimate of 'it'll cost AT least this much", and the senate did much the same, the compromise resolution isn't as good as either, but in someways is better than both, that's the system we have.
The whole stimulus is the same way, waited to long to carefully plan each investment, and now have to throw a huge pile of money at the problem hoping 25-50 percent has some effect both short term and over the next few years.
The best value we can get is tracking how the money is spent, and what gets the most bang for the buck so that future investments ARE better directed. | |
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 christcorpPremium
join:2001-05-21
Cheyenne, WY
kudos:1 | stimulous? If they'd get rid of the "Net Neutrality" tone, I'd like it better. Other than that, I don't see how any of these pork programs STIMULATE the economy. I don't see Verizon, Qwest, Comcast, etc... re-hiring people they laid off. | |
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| | title wrong? Titles says $7.2B, article says $7.2M. | |
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| | | Re: title wrong? Yeah my mistake, corrected. | |
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| | Nothing's going to change. The rural areas will still have only dialup, other than slow, expensive Satellite or wireless 3G. They will concentrate all the money to improving all the cities and close urban areas, just like they have done in the past. Nothing is going to change. | |
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 woodwardXMission BroadbandVIP
join:2000-12-28
Salt Lake City, UT | RUS. Ugh. One of the least discussed but most damaging impediments to the UTOPIA FTTH project here in Utah was the choice to pursue RUS financing.
It was an indescribable mess of false promises unfulfilled commitments that drove the entire project to the brink of collapse.
This news is not confidence inspiring. I hope it will be a more effective program under the new administration than it was under the old. | |
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| | Wool over your eyes this bill is a joke. it's a giant prok and earmarked-filled amendment against free enterprise and has basically no stimulus factors whatsoever. government does not create wealth and governments do not create new legislation to stir an economy. if any gov't whats to spur their nation's economy, the only proven method is LESS regulation.
this bill is designed to do one thing and one thing alone: firmly cement the Democrats in power for years to come. this does nothing for the economy and we have yet to be told where this $800 Billion is coming from. does anybody know? China already stopped buying our bonds. no one wants our bonds. we dont have gold to back up our currency and we keep printing money, more relatively than in our nation's history even adjusted for inflation.
there are provisions in the bill to set in motion plans for nationalized healthcare, man-made global warming, something like $50 billion for new highways (of which only 10% will be used in 2009).
the majority of the money in this bill won;t even be used until 2011 and 2012.
the length of the bill is something like 1100 pages! our Senate and House Reps havent even read a FRACTION of this bill that is being voted on TODAY. this will set America back 50 years and will make us reset our economy and rethink social priorities over the next 50 years once veryone realizes how big of a mistake this bill is. it's almost infinitely worse than the Bush stimulus packages combined that passed last year, which were both big mistakes.
this is truly a scary piece of legislation...
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| | | Re: Who's Worst Off?? said by bombadill:I used to sit an look into the fabulous world of US computer science as shown on BBR. Now perhaps I won't think I'm so badly off after reading the posts above. I'm not going to winge any more about my service.  The problem is this except for $350M USD the rest is pork. People who pay taxes don't like pork unless it comes from a pig. This is misappropriation funds should have been used for something else which it is not.
That's what the complaints are about. | |
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| LegoPower77AbecedarianPremium
join:2002-08-03
Midlothian, VA | All well and good, but one of the problems with nationalizing things is that it kills the incentive to innovate.
When things are set up as a utility, the companies that run it are guaranteed profits by the government and so have no need to push the edge.
There's a reason stuff used to be invented here in America.
Another problem is that older equipment isn't phased out as quickly because of the guaranteed returns. Since the government sets the prices, it doesn't matter that they use less-efficient equipment.
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"It is a melancholy reflection that liberty should be equally exposed to danger whether the government have too much or too little power."—James Madison
It's right, it's free. | |
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| |  bombadillHonest it just fell apart in my handsPremium
join:2008-11-10
australia
·Telstra Bigpond
| Re: Who's Worst Off?? Well you're right up to a degree.
But our old PMG (Post Master General's Department) WAS the government, form day one back in 1900. No business entity about it so "profits" didn't come into it, service DID. Mind you it was expected to return sufficient dividends to maintain and improve its service which it also did well.AND their laboratories were world class.
The we got divesting and, lord help us, Sol Trujilo (spelling uncertain??) and the 3 caballeros, his mates from some US company, who have successfully trashed what was a good service, all in the name of profits.
Hopefully Trujillo will soon be gone but the damage is well and truly done.
I know that the private ethic is very strong in the US of A however sometimes the public utility can also do as good if not better job without gouging for profits over service.
I also run a business so I can see both sides of the coin I hope. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T Yahoo
·Comcast
| Re: Who's Worst Off?? said by bombadill:Well you're right up to a degree. But our old PMG (Post Master General's Department) WAS the government, form day one back in 1900. No business entity about it so "profits" didn't come into it, service DID. Mind you it was expected to return sufficient dividends to maintain and improve its service which it also did well.AND their laboratories were world class. The we got divesting and, lord help us, Sol Trujilo (spelling uncertain??) and the 3 caballeros, his mates from some US company, who have successfully trashed what was a good service, all in the name of profits. Hopefully Trujillo will soon be gone but the damage is well and truly done. I know that the private ethic is very strong in the US of A however sometimes the public utility can also do as good if not better job without gouging for profits over service. I also run a business so I can see both sides of the coin I hope. I think that everything should be like the internet
Everyone pay a flat fee every month say 100.00 USD for Electricity, Gas, Phone, Internet, TV.
Think of the savings
We wouldnt be so poor anymore would we?
Unlimited use=freedom for all
But you know in a capitalist world few are only looking after themselves aka self gain=easy wealth
Its like everyone is making the few super rich
We expect the government to do more for us but a government being run by a private interest is called fascism or corporation... who loses? we the people.
we are being fleeced and misled by our leader who is only looking after their friend.
us? there is no us. we are like sheep being led to the slaughter house for profits and exploitation. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Who's Worst Off?? said by jadebangle:said by bombadill:Well you're right up to a degree. But our old PMG (Post Master General's Department) WAS the government, form day one back in 1900. No business entity about it so "profits" didn't come into it, service DID. Mind you it was expected to return sufficient dividends to maintain and improve its service which it also did well.AND their laboratories were world class. The we got divesting and, lord help us, Sol Trujilo (spelling uncertain??) and the 3 caballeros, his mates from some US company, who have successfully trashed what was a good service, all in the name of profits. Hopefully Trujillo will soon be gone but the damage is well and truly done. I know that the private ethic is very strong in the US of A however sometimes the public utility can also do as good if not better job without gouging for profits over service. I also run a business so I can see both sides of the coin I hope. I think that everything should be like the internet Everyone pay a flat fee every month say 100.00 USD for Electricity, Gas, Phone, Internet, TV. Think of the savings We wouldnt be so poor anymore would we? Unlimited use=freedom for all But you know in a capitalist world few are only looking after themselves aka self gain=easy wealth Its like everyone is making the few super rich We expect the government to do more for us but a government being run by a private interest is called fascism or corporation... who loses? we the people. we are being fleeced and misled by our leader who is only looking after their friend. us? there is no us. we are like sheep being led to the slaughter house for profits and exploitation. wrong on almost every point...i dont even know where to begin, so i wont | |
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iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Golden, CO
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Toothless I suppose I need to read the bill. Though I hope it doesn't pass.
Seems like it's a bit toothless as of right now. Am I missing something or do they not even talk about how fast broadband is? The whole next-gen 100/20 thing would've been a boon to Verizon, yes, but it'd still get high speed fiber out there... | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  House of Reps passes stimulus bill; Senate later today
The House on Friday voted 246-183 to approve a compromise version of the estimated US$787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. All 176 Republicans present voted against the bill.
The Senate is expected to vote on the bill late Friday. U.S. President Barack Obama has said he will sign the legislation.
The bill includes $7.2 billion to help deploy broadband in rural and other unserved areas, $17 billion for incentives for health care providers to adopt electronic health records, and $11 billion to update the nation's electricity grid by hooking it up to the Internet. 1 down; 1 to go.
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| Lobbyists had copy of stimulus before many lawmakers I thought this was somewhat telling:
»www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-···-do.html
We're receiving E-mails from Capitol Hill staffers expressing frustration that they can't get a copy of the stimulus bill agreed to last night at a price of $789 billion. What's more, staffers are complaining about who does have a copy: K Street lobbyists. E-mails one key Democratic staffer: "K Street has the bill, or chunks of it, already, and the congressional offices don't. So, the Hill is getting calls from the press (because it's leaking out) asking us to confirm or talk about what we know�€”but we can't do that because we haven't seen the bill." | |
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chelpt
join:2008-05-24
La Crosse, WI | How will they get the money back? Um, what happens when they run out of money? I can imagine that to continue the program of giving High Speed Internet to the 'less fortunate' or rural areas the government is going to find a way to continue financing this.
Does this sound familiar to ANY one? This sounds like that Subscriber Line Charge people find on their phone bills. Only, when the money runs out, to continue funding this I see the 'Bright Idea' from government will be to make something called Broadband Subscriber Charge.
Come on folks. The government will just get these companies hooked on this just to provide a clamoring demand from people to make a new government taxing body.
This will not be good, unless you like more taxes latter on. | |
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Re: What's left?
