dslreports logo
 story category
72% Of P2P Pirates Would Stop With ISP Warning
No P2P or no Internet -- not much of a choice...

Our friend Mike Masnick at Techdirt directs our attention to a study by Entertainment Media Research, which claims that 72% of file sharers would stop file sharing -- if sent a letter by their ISP threatening to cut them off the internet. As Techdirt notes, a choice of no P2P use versus no Internet access entirely isn't much of a choice, making the survey (which was released last Spring but covered today by the BBC) a little bit silly. The results clearly help bolster entertainment industry efforts to push ISPs into the role of Internet babysitters. From the report (pdf) itself:

quote:
One of the most compelling reasons to quit would be if a consumer received a cease and desist warning notification from their ISP. 7 out of 10 currently accessing un-authorised content state they would stop if this happened. Interestingly, some of themost likely to be dissuaded are teenagers (78% for male teenagers and 75% for female teenagers). Nonetheless people are concerned about stories of prosecution, and nearly 2 in 3 say they would stop if they felt there was more chance of being caught, and over half are put off pirating by news stories.
Given the fact that the negative press from the occasional legal suit hasn't stopped P2P from growing exponentially, the entertainment industry has placed their hopes into recruiting ISPs as content gatekeepers -- either voluntarily or by getting governments to pass mandatory filtering laws. Piracy babysitter is a role some ISPs are embracing more enthusiastically than others. AT&T plans to employ filters sometime soon, while just last week we explored how Cox threatens to terminate the connections of those who receive repeated DMCA warnings.

Earlier this year RIAA President Cary Sherman, when he wasn't suggesting that AV software should scan for pirated material, hinted that there would be less piracy if users simply knew what they were doing was illegal. Sherman opined that AT&T's upcoming piracy filters would effectively work not only as a filter but as moral signposts, giving users a slight slap on the wrist should they get into downloading copyright materials. The problem is: filters can almost always be circumnavigated, and the cost of playing piracy whack-a-mole could be costly, and drive up the cost of services for consumers.
view:
topics flat nest 

baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium Member
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 edit

baineschile

Premium Member

Up to ISPs?

If someone stays within the cap range, and pays their bill every month, why should an ISP care whats going over its pipes? When did it become the duty of the ISP to police content?

Not that I support them, but will ISPs start limiting the websites of the KKK? Will the government jump in and censor people that write about government reform? Where does the filter stop?

Anyone who has read any of my posts on here knows that i support ISPs enforcing caps, mainly because most people are piraters that download tons and tons of content and eat up bandwidth. But i never have advocated that the service provider should police it.

If the music and movie industry wouldnt have been so greedy the last 30 years and prices on those products wouldnt have been so outrageous, piracy wouldnt be as big of a problem today. But cmon, 300 bucks for a blu ray player, and then 30 for each dvd?!?!!? All of it going to line the pockets of already rich millionaires.

maartena
Elmo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA

maartena

Premium Member

Re: Up to ISPs?

said by baineschile:

When did it become the duty of the ISP to police content?
Since they were forced to by the Patriot Act adopted in 2002. I believe ISP's had to have their monitoring equipment in place by either 2005 or 2006, and are not forced to allow access to records to officials that have a warrant to look at them.

Obviously, the INTENDED use is to track down terrorists, but legally speaking the system may be used by any law enforcement who sees reason enough to suspect someone of crimes, and that could include piracy. Of course a proper warrant is still required.

The point of this post is not that the police weren't able to issue warrants BEFORE the patriot act, because they were. But before the patriot act, an ISP could simply say "I am sorry, but our records only go back 2 weeks" or something that sounds technically reasonable, while with the Patriot Act they are legally forced to keep all records to user traffic for at least one year.

Of course, the Patriot Act is useless in the fight against terrorism, because any smart terrorist uses very high encryption to communicate, which is virtually uncrackable, at least not within a reasonable amount of time.

So in a nutshell: The ISP's are forced to keep all traffic records for a year, and the government can request access to those records under the Patriot Act if they suspect you for any type of crime, including those not even close to terrorism, such as torrenting the latest issue of Girls Gone Wild.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Up to ISPs?

said by maartena:

said by baineschile:

When did it become the duty of the ISP to police content?
Since they were forced to by the Patriot Act adopted in 2002.
you forget that the internet does not belong to the united states government nor is it confined within the borders of the united states.

i, personally, have always felt that the internet should be a sovereign entity and treated as such.

BIGMIKE
Q
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Gainesville, FL

BIGMIKE to baineschile

Premium Member

to baineschile
Thank you RIAA.

RIAA v. The People: Five Years Later

On September 8, 2003, the recording industry sued 261 American music fans for sharing songs on peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing networks, kicking off an unprecedented legal campaign against the people that should be the recording industrys best customers: music fans.1 Five years later, the recording industry has filed, settled, or threatened legal actions against at least 30,000 individuals.2 These individuals have included children, grandparents, unemployed single mothers, college professors�€”a random selection from the millions of Americans who have used P2P networks. And theres no end in sight; new lawsuits are filed monthly, and now they are supplemented by a flood of "pre-litigation" settlement letters designed to extract settlements without any need to enter a courtroom.3

But suing music fans has proven to be an ineffective response to unauthorized P2P file-sharing. Downloading from P2P networks is more popular than ever, despite the widespread public awareness of lawsuits.4 And the lawsuit campaign has not resulted in any royalties to artists. One thing has become clear: suing music fans is no answer to the P2P dilemma. »www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-pe ··· rs-later

POB
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium Member
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA

2 edits

POB to baineschile

Premium Member

to baineschile
said by baineschile:

[...] i support ISPs enforcing caps, mainly because most people are piraters that download tons and tons of content and eat up bandwidth. [...]
People who use the words most people are clueless and/or full of shit. I support caps on clueless shit peddlers.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to baineschile

Member

to baineschile
said by baineschile:

If someone stays within the cap range, and pays their bill every month, why should an ISP care whats going over its pipes? When did it become the duty of the ISP to police content?
That's like saying UPS or FedEx shouldn't care if customers are shipping illegal drugs or child pr0n as long as those customers paid them.

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Silly? Hardly.

quote:
As Techdirt notes, a choice of no P2P use versus no Internet access entirely isn't much of a choice, making the survey (which was released last Spring but covered today by the BBC) a little bit silly.
It's certainly not silly. A lot of people engage in criminal acts regardless of the possible penalty so it's certainly not surprising that some people would continue engaging in copyright infringement even at the risk of losing their service.

Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON

Mashiki

Member

Re: Silly? Hardly.

I salute xkcd and their common sense overlords.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four

Premium Member

Re: Silly? Hardly.

Click for full size
Here's something in a similar vein:

The original can be found at »markshroyer.com/files/piracy.png

cob_
1310nm Of Goodness
Premium Member
join:2003-07-08
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

cob_

Premium Member

Re: Silly? Hardly.

said by Doctor Four:

Here's something in a similar vein:

The original can be found at »markshroyer.com/files/piracy.png
...except that one's ridiculous. The idea of IP is not difficult to comprehend; if you were a content producer, you wouldn't want to give away your works for nothing. The only thing I have a problem with is what xkcd brought up in their comic - whether you buy DRMed media or steal it, you're a criminal. If you buy the DRMed stuff, you've simply limited yourself to specific software and devices. That's why I only buy music from Amazon as DRM-free MP3.

Koil
Premium Member
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC

Koil

Premium Member

Why don't they get it?

So...If, yet again, another stupid piece of this were to be set in place, do they not think that either "pirate" ISP's will begin to proliferate, and/or ways of (such as is already possible) masking our packets from the ISP's?

Those that do not wish to be seen can move and adapt so much faster than the ones trying to catch them, that this endless cycle will continue ad nauseam.

Instead of building a better rat trap, someone on their side needs to wisen up and build a better model of distribution....and one that isn't over inflated.

But, I say that now, but realistically its too late, isn't it. They've already done irreparable harm and pissed sooo many ppl off, I doubt they'll be able to come back into good graces with those they have spurned.

LaZ3R
Premium Member
join:2003-01-17

LaZ3R

Premium Member

I'm not surprised...

It's no doubt that the majority would rather not risk losing their existing internet connection rather than continue downloading movies/music/pirated files for free.

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

Doctor Four

Premium Member

ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

Already the number of people who still use p2p vs. less traceable methods such as IRC, Usenet, and direct download services like Rapidshare and Megaupload is decreasing. MAFIAA mandated ISP crackdowns will force more people to use means of getting content that are much harder to stop than p2p is, and furthermore encrypt every part of the file transfer.
Let's see Audible Magic and other anti-piracy companies try to deal with that.

mythology
Premium Member
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC

mythology

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

72% of people would get a new ISP.

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

said by mythology:

72% of people would get a new ISP.
That doesn't work for those who have limited ISPs like my area (no DSL, no FIOS, etc.) that only has cable modem.

wings10
I Am Legend
Premium Member
join:2004-06-09
South Elgin, IL

wings10 to mythology

Premium Member

to mythology
said by mythology:

72% of people would get a new ISP.
LOL yea how many are there?
Vtr_Racing
join:2006-09-04
Pflugerville, TX

Vtr_Racing to Doctor Four

Member

to Doctor Four
Yep, they dont get and refuse to (RIAA) admit this is stupid.
Rob_
Premium Member
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL

Rob_

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

again, this is about control in what we say/do on the interent.

the MPAA and RIAA are the thieves and need to let go.

i still advise all to use this and keep it up to date:

»phoenixlabs.org/pg2/

it offers some protection from this crap.
the RIAA and MPAA are worried about their bottom line. they don't give a fuck about us or the artist they represent.

-Rob
ctggzg
Premium Member
join:2005-02-11
USA

ctggzg

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

Wow, businesses trying to protect THEIR property? Who would have thought? Wal*Mart only cares about their bottom line as well. I guess it's okay for me to shoplift.
Rob_
Premium Member
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL

Rob_

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

it's not their property, it's the property of the ARTIST.
when will you learn? it's about CONTROL. america is almost dead.

i do not support the mafIAA at all.
i haven't purchased a cd since this shit started. and i will stick to my word.

and from what i heard the artist gets treated like crap beyond belief. so if you want to support greed, then buy cds and watch foax news. if you want to be a part of the revolution then wake up and join the fight.

there are so few of them and many of us.

-Rob

bassjunky
join:2005-05-12
Aubrey, TX

bassjunky

Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

So what are you actively doing to support the artist whose music you're listening to/stealing from?

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four to Vtr_Racing

Premium Member

to Vtr_Racing
Another thing that the MAFIAA will never be able to stop is
the trading of content via portable hard drives. Considering
how cheap these are, a person can bring his entire library of
music and ripped DVDs over to their friends' houses, and allow
them to copy whatever they want.

The same thing is going on on college campuses, and is likely
more popular where draconian anti-p2p policies have been put
into place on the school's network.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: ISP Warnings only drive it further underground

Colleges could also just see P2P moving to existing solely with in the College Network and never exiting out to the internet and as such never crossing their firewalls which would mean the RIAA couldnt track it unless they had hardware setup to monitor the LAN as well.
lordofwhee
join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA

1 recommendation

lordofwhee

Member

This again?

It seems every few months someone releases the exact same figures which supposedly come from different sources, or have their source in the 1980s.

I've gotten in the habit of disregarding every statistic the MAFIAA come up with (or, more probably, make up).
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: This again?

said by lordofwhee:

It seems every few months someone releases the exact same figures which supposedly come from different sources, or have their source in the 1980s.

I've gotten in the habit of disregarding every statistic the MAFIAA come up with (or, more probably, make up).
"Earlier this year RIAA President Cary Sherman, when he wasn't suggesting that AV software should scan for pirated material, hinted that there would be less piracy if users simply knew what they were doing was illegal."

It's pretty hard for users to know what is illegal when the MAFIAA constantly makes an effort to obfuscate both the law and the facts.
Vtr_Racing
join:2006-09-04
Pflugerville, TX

1 recommendation

Vtr_Racing

Member

Lame Legislation.

Laws are already in place for this. Its not the ISP`s job to be the internet cops. RIAA isnt interested in Joe Blow songwriters intellectual property. They are interested in control, plain and simple. Instead of complaining about it, they should embrace it. This internet IS the new radio.
id_deleted
join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT

3 edits

id_deleted

Member

There is no ISP required to get free music now.

The ISP issue has already been circumvented. Now you can get all the free high quality mp3's you could ever want, without an Internet connection, and to top it off its quite legal. We should actually thank the RIAA for giving us the technology to do so. In their never ending greed, they promoted the idea of broadcasting digital CD quality sound over radio station signals with advanced text embedding that makes RBDS look like garbage, its now known as HD Radio. Hoping to capitalize on increased listeners and the ad revenue that resulted, they have heavily promoted HD Radio technology all across America, they even got the FCC to mandate the technology.

But, they made a big mistake thinking they could prevent recording the digital broadcast with a software system that takes full advantage of the embedded text (an automated mp3 generator). The RIAA along with the inventors of HD Radio, Ibiquity, had effectively prevented any PC card or USB based HD Radio tuner from ever being sold in order to prevent this nightmare scenario from happening. It was just a matter of time before someone found a way to interface an existing HD Radio receiver to a PC, and their hopes for aversion came crashing down.
Pv8man
join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Pv8man

Member

I got a notice from WOW

I got this notice about 3 weeks ago, and I'm going to be honest because I think the info is important, The last time I used bit torrent was about a month or two ago, and I downloaded the NIN album, and a Ubuntu distro. That is it, and I received this notice once when I pulled up Firefox.




I have continued to call the number but get no answer for almost two weeks now.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

Re: I got a notice from WOW

said by Pv8man:

I got this notice about 3 weeks ago, and I'm going to be honest because I think the info is important, The last time I used bit torrent was about a month or two ago, and I downloaded the NIN album, and a Ubuntu distro. That is it, and I received this notice once when I pulled up Firefox.I have continued to call the number but get no answer for almost two weeks now.
I've never seen an ISP relay a "warning" quite like that. Looks kinda iffy to me, especially if your internet is still functional.
ragingwolf
join:2003-04-22
Nepean, ON

ragingwolf

Member

Re: I got a notice from WOW

A canadian isp, rogers, can do this kind of thing. If you go over, or get near their cap, they give you a warning through the browser like the person above. I wouldn't be surprised to see this kind of message in the US though :/

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four to Moffetts

Premium Member

to Moffetts
It could be thought of as a phishing attempt, especially if
it didn't come from the ISP itself.

Either that or a social engineering ploy to get malware
installed on your computer.

A real example of this recently was cybercriminals spoofing
MediaDefender emails sent to subscribers, telling them to
open an attachment to see infringement details. The attachment
was of course a trojan.
Videl
Premium Member
join:2002-07-23
Scarborough, ON

Videl

Premium Member

warnings or not

like that would stop me from going to newsgroups!

DJMASACRE
join:2008-05-27
Nepean, ON

DJMASACRE

Member

No issue.

you guys are too much .

stop being paranoid.

Theres more important things going on with the internet right now to worry about piracy.

... we have been going over this topic for over a decade now, and nothing has changed.

so relax, and move on

BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Nite-Owl
join:2007-01-11

BabyBear

Member

Re: No issue.

Don't forget comrade Bush signed the PRO-IP act into law too.

n7zzt
@cox.net

n7zzt

Anon

cox as gatekeeper

I was recently sent such a "cease and desist" order from cox. However, their spam filters prevented that order from getting to my e-mail (and thus, I was cut off).

The other problem I found (once I was able to get hold of someone in authority at cox) was that teh IP noted in teh abuse complaint hasn't belonged to me in over 2 months!

It took my going over to the corporate offices in north phoenix arizona and camping in front of the door of the managing operations director before I was seen. 10 minutes at a computer terminale resulted in 3 things happeneing:

1. I showed that the IP address in question was still active (it was still live)
2. the cease and desist order was rescinded
3. my services were restored post haste.

it seems somone over at cox wasn't doing their job correctly as I have now joined the ranks of people being harrassed by their ISP's for activities I clearly did not do. I just can't await the day when I get a knock on my door, have to deal with a bunch of cops and a search warrant to sieze my computer equipment, just because the MPAA or RIAA decided I was sharing on a non-existant service.

GGxsa
@telus.net

GGxsa

Anon

GG

Also 85% of all stats are made up or just pulled out of ones a$$ with no real basis in reality
wispalord
join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

wispalord

Member

omg

i have not downloaded mp3s in so long, with hd and xm radio, and my car is the only place i need it i dont care anymore, my issue is movies, where i live there are no places to buy movies, and i will not buy the editited monkey shit from walmart, there are no theaters ect, and i dont have a credit card, so i need another way to leagle get movies, like let me download divx's and bill me every month i'll send a money order, i'd do that for $1 each, and it cost them nothing exept bandwidth, and me a blank disk, and wow all the people who benifit, isps, blank media companys, artists ect. why cant they see this?
id_deleted
join:2003-05-01
Salt Lake City, UT

4 edits

id_deleted

Member

Re: omg

Whats wrong with renting DVD's or blu-ray's from Netflix? Is $14 a month still too much to stay legal? I am sure you at least have a checking account, just about any bank will give you a debit card for use with a checking account, and the debit card will work just like a Visa or Mastercard for online purchases. If you get a Paypal account you can get a Paypal debit card (works like a mastercard) and it will automatically draw funds right from the checking account at your bank when you make a purchase. If you are at all persistant you can easily average less than a buck a piece over the month for Netflix rentals.

Netflix is the only way to go for blu-ray, 3 at a time and I have a constant supply; way more movies then I ever have time to watch, and all I have to do is walk out to the mailbox a few times a week. I have the new released Indiana Jones flic in my mail box right now, just havnt had time to make it out there yet.

Internal PC blu-ray drives can easily be found for less than $100 now. I spend more than that in one night on a date. I just do not see any valid reason to spend the time and bandwidth just to download some cut-up, downgraded movie off the net that some 14 yr old ripped. Most of them are unwatchable since they typically have no clue on to how to sync their bitrate raped sound and video properly. I'll take my blu-ray rentals that play from my HTPC to my 47" 1080p LCD HDTV with intact original 7.1 channel Dolby TrueHD sound pushed out to my Onkyo via HDMI anyday over that crap.
33358088 (banned)
join:2008-09-23

33358088 (banned)

Member

and this affects canada how?

AHH i see USA issue, enjoy.
You vote for them and keep that dual system that keeps both sides with the same people paying them all off.

How is that Plutocracy these days?