 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Raise your hand... ...if you don't know the difference between unlimited bandwidth and unlimited time. It's only been rehashed a few thousand times here that when an ISP is selling a unlimited service, they are selling always-on, not unlimited downloads.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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Pateo
Premium
join:2005-11-15 | Re: Raise your hand... Granted, that's probably in the TOS - I don't know.
I do know that ISP's rarely if ever make that point clear to potential subscribers when advertising their services. | |
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Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting
1 edit | Raise your hand... Raise Your hand....
...if you want to ignore the fact that the marketing term "unlimited" is intentionally misleading, and pretend it's the end-users fault for being stupid. It's only been rehashed a few thousand times here that the term "unlimited" should not be used by a marketing department if the service they're selling has caps or limits of any kind. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Raise your hand... said by Minister  :Raise Your hand.... ...if you want to ignore the fact that the marketing term "unlimited" is intentionally misleading, And much of marketing isn't misleading? It's marketing 101. Intentionally skating the fine line between legally safe and illegally deceptive marketing. I remember reading an article once about the deceptive, but still perfectly legal phrases used in marketing. I'd toss the phrase "unlimited broadband" in the boat with it.
I'm not going to argue that saying it's unlimited broadband but then putting caps on it isn't somewhat misleading. I'm just saying that this isn't exactly the first time this has ever happened. If you are going to argue that it's misleading to advertise "unlimited broadband", then you better argue that they shouldn't offer different speed tiers either. After all, the only difference between a speed cap and a download cap is time.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| But exactly who's fault is it for not reading their agreement in the first place where unlimited and always on are defined?
Problem is that so many people here the word unlimited and then tune out anything else after that. Unlmited what? Use? access? Transfer? head aches? Unlimited amounts of downtime? What?
I do hear tham market, more, instant access always on internet more so that unlimited internet.
Even in the telephone business, unlimited long distance is based loosly on the average residential use which has been deemed the average of 5000 minute a month. Unlimited is how it's marked in the sense that it's intended for use, again, deemed avg. 5000 minutes a month. People would know THAT if they read their agreements - that little thing you are required to read and accept, usually just clicking accept with out reading simply to complete the install "because we've heard it all before. Right? Then what? Here we are complaining they were never told.  | |
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| | gefflong
join:2003-02-18
Aledo, IL | I agree. The phone companies might as well advertise UNLIMITED PHONE USAGE for $19.99/month...
and conveniently forget the small print
...as long as you talk without actually dialing the phone.
That would be just as ethic. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| Re: Raise your hand... that is the fucking dumbest definition.....unlimited = always on? My god thats like Frigidaire saying I have UNLIMITED COOLING! because the refrigerator is turned on all the time.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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| Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | I'll raise my hand because Verizon tried this and failed to live up to what it SAID (screw the fine print, if you tell someone "I'll give you unlimited service" then say quietly "But really it isnt", then your deceiving the customer. | |
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HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
| said by cdru :...if you don't know the difference between unlimited bandwidth and unlimited time. It's only been rehashed a few thousand times here that when an ISP is selling a unlimited service, they are selling always-on, not unlimited downloads. Unlimited is DEFINED as having NO LIMITS---PERIOD.
»dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unlimited
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.
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All Things Art »kkart.deviantart.com | |
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| Eek2121
Lovin Verizon FIOS
join:2002-10-12
Flanders, NJ
| Yeah, you try to sell ME unlimited service and then place limits on it...watch what happens. I'll laugh all the way to the bank. Seriously, it doesn't matter what the ISPs think unlimited means, it's what they portray it to mean that matters. Thats why comcast and many other ISPs have stopped advertising unlimited...it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. | |
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Obliteration
Premium
join:2005-09-18
Somewhere
| Re: Raise your hand... said by Eek2121 :Yeah, you try to sell ME unlimited service and then place limits on it...watch what happens. I'll laugh all the way to the bank. Seriously, it doesn't matter what the ISPs think unlimited means, it's what they portray it to mean that matters. Thats why comcast and many other ISPs have stopped advertising unlimited...it's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Comcast still isn't any better.
Comcast Rep:"Sir you are downloading too much!"
Person: What is "too much" so it won't happen again?
Comcast rep: STFU and and quit asking questions. You are downloading too much bitch and you should accept it. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| Re: Raise your hand... you didnt include the part where the Comcast rep experiences the recieving end of Ultraviolence.
I think more people need to get punched in the face when they pull crap like that.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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| tscoccol
join:2002-08-03
New York, NY
| There are two selling points for broadband. Always-on and unlimited download. Marketing something as unlimited means what it says. Unlimited has no contextual meaning to the ability to always get a connection. Unlimited time -- what the hell does that mean?
Stop being an apologist asshat and mind your business if you have nothing constructive to add. | |
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| zod5000
join:2003-10-21
Edmonton, AB
 ·TELUS
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| to defend the users, right when they intro'd the cap, they were advertising unlimited downloads.
so i'm guessing theres people who signed up before the changed the wording for west canadian users, and had no idea it wasn't unlimited downloads anymore. | |
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Meroonys
@comcast.net | Court Can you spell class action ? | |
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| Roop
join:2003-11-15
Ottawa, ON
·Cybersurf Corporat..
| Re: Court said by Meroonys :
Can you spell class action ?
no, i can't.
here in canada, rogers.com's EULA states you give up your rights in court if you agree to subscribe to their service.
i'd bet many american isp's have similar clauses.
what does unlimited mean? it means whatever my isp tells me it means.
what does class action mean? false hope. | |
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| | taar
join:2000-11-21
 ·Charter Pipeline
| Re: Court said by Roop :said by Meroonys :
Can you spell class action ?
no, i can't. here in canada, rogers.com's EULA states you give up your rights in court if you agree to subscribe to their service. i'd bet many american isp's have similar clauses. what does unlimited mean? it means whatever my isp tells me it means. what does class action mean? false hope. Dont know about you canucks but here in the states EULAs can be challenged. Who the hell reads that crap anyways?? There will always be one crooked lawyer that will sue for anything and he just might win....... | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: Court said by taar : Who the hell reads that crap anyways?? Ignorance is not a defense.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| 1) It's impossible to sigh your rights away in this country.
2) Even the "arbitration cluase" doesn't prevent law suits against neglegent actions.
4) The EULA, as called here, the TOS actually, imposes certain rights upong the end user. However, that same TOS does not apply to the state AG's office if they feel gross misconduct on the part of the ISP. There are many things that the TOS does not protect the company from the general public.
and finally, class action means that the lead attorny get's rich, the lead plaintiffs get a descent amount of meny, and the class memebers get a certificate good for 1 free hamburger. | |
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Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON
| Re: Court said by fiberguy :1) It's impossible to sigh your rights away in this country. It's impossible to sign away your rights in Canada as well. It is commons for big corporations (read: Rogers) to put lines like that into their TOSes and EULAs to scare users into not challenging them in court, even though they still have every legal right to do so. Ultimately, a contract is only as good as the judge who is determining who breached it.
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca | |
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| | | cbiggers
join:2000-08-10
San Luis Obispo, CA
clubs:  | Sound legal advice from someone who spelled virtually every word wrong... | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Court What are you, all of about 4 years old? | |
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Chris 313
Come get some
Premium
join:2004-07-18
Houma, LA
clubs: | Rediculous Stupid suckers. Charge one flat rate and if you insist on charging over the limit fees, make them CLEAR for everyone to see.
I feel real sorry for the person with the 400 dollar bill. It's things like that that caused me to dump AOHell. | |
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| sd70mac666
join:2003-06-05
Saint Albans, VT | Re: Rediculous isn't that illegal to do that in the way of false advertising? | |
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Persona
Premium
join:2004-07-07
Gravenhurst, ON | unbelievable! Clearly, this is about total contempt for anyone who would want to download that much data in a month. | |
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extremelyataloss
@cox.net
| Re: unbelievable! Just a question: How in the heck do you download 600 gig on a 3 mbps deal in one month?
The simple truth is: most companies are worried about Upstream bandwidth not downstream.
That upstream bandwidth is the sticky point.
Maybe the Japanese should buyout all the telcos around the USA so we could pay $25 a month for 100/50 mbps connections.
Tech support might be in Japanese or Mandarin (LOL), but it probably would always work, never go down, and even survive hurricanes, volcanos erupting, and Dick Cheney's shotgun. LOL! | |
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| | Joe123456789
join:2003-11-24
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: unbelievable! said by extremelyataloss :
Just a question: How in the heck do you download 600 gig on a 3 mbps deal in one month?
The simple truth is: most companies are worried about Upstream bandwidth not downstream.
That upstream bandwidth is the sticky point.
Maybe the Japanese should buyout all the telcos around the USA so we could pay $25 a month for 100/50 mbps connections.
How far does that 100/50 go? | |
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milnoc
join:2001-03-05
H3B
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Re: Is this the only DSL provider with CAPS ?? Before Sympatico removed their bandwidth caps about two years ago, they would charge you something like $4 per GB if you went over 10GB. However, the total accumulated charges were limited to $40 per month no matter how much excess bandwidth you used up. So you'd pay almost double per month for your "unlimited" bandwidth, but you wouldn't be slammed with a $400 surcharge like some Primus customers recently (ouch!).
This could very well become a government matter if more and more people are charged extra fees for which they were not properly advised of their existence, especially in Alberta which is a "true-blue" province. | |
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zoonby
@primus.ca | Re: Is this the only DSL provider with CAPS ?? never got a warning letter or email about the 50 GB limit but Primus said they sent it in last nov,2005.knew that untill got charged $274.83 on the last bill. | |
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| jerry666
Premium
join:2002-12-12
Sainte-Anne-Des-Lacs, QC
clubs: | yes . 2 years ago totalnet tried to charge me 79 cents for 1 gb over their 5 gb limit , i told them to tsake me to court . now they have unlimited , whatever they mean by that . so far i've received no bills for over doing any limit. | |
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GlenQuagmire
Giggidy Giggidy Giggidy Goo
Premium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | As far as I know most don't. If they want to cap people fine but don't go and start complaining when you become unprofitable and go out of business because people have moved to different ISP's. | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Is this the only DSL provider with CAPS ?? said by GlenQuagmire :As far as I know most don't. If they want to cap people fine but don't go and start complaining when you become unprofitable and go out of business because people have moved to different ISP's. and when that happens and the other isp has control, they will ultimately do the same thing.
They all have the same reasons to cap users. Right now, they are balancing their over all useage of their users and trying to keep things on the straight and narrow.
Ultimately, bandwidth does have a cost associated with it. They all would cap if they could. Same reason why web hosting providers do the same thing. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Qwest reserves the right to remove users, or limit them, if they download excessive amounts. Enforced? Probably not yet - which we don't know that either. There could be people ou there that have had this happen and aren't visitors here.
But, if you look at the TOS of the isps, they all reserve the same rights. It's under "any activity that impacts their network" - at anytime, excessive downloads could be stated as impacting the network. | |
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast
| Only 50GB? 50GB cap? That's almost nothing at all when it comes to serious use of broadband. $2.95 per gigabyte over is crazy. I'm glad Primus isn't my ISP (other than the fact that I'm not in Canada  )
quote:
A South African programmer claims it's cheaper to fly round trip to Hong Kong from South Africa - and download 100GB of data from an Internet cafe - that it is to use his 1Mbps per-byte DSL connection from South African telco Telkom to download that same 100GB.
ROFL! | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Only 50GB? 50GB cap? That's almost nothing at all when it comes to serious use of broadband. $2.95 per gigabyte over is crazy. I'm glad Primus isn't my ISP (other than the fact that I'm not in Canada )
It's not uncommon. In Sacramento/Roseville CA, Surewest offers a 10/10 and 20/20 fiber connection, first major rollout in the nation (WinFirst actually) and their service is based on a 40gb cap in and out.
Up to 40 Gigabytes of unidirectional throughput monthly, calculated on inbound or outbound usage, whichever is higher.
»personal.surewest.com/internet/highspeed.php | |
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IanR
join:2001-03-22
Madison, NJ
| My queston is... What's the business strategy in trying to charge $2.95 for every GB over 50 GB pm? The cost of such an extra GB to the ISP is probaby a few Cents ONLY. Is the ISP seriously trying to say they down't have a "pipe" large enough? That doesn't ring true, so why the massive over charge? | |
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Allinduetime
@sympatico.ca | Re: My queston is... You get "unlimited access" to their service and they get "unlimited access" to your bank account. Take it or leave it. NEXT! | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA | Wow ...and I bitch about Comcast. | |
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Kital
join:2002-01-04
Park Hills, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| per gb rate Companies that decide to go this route, should just charge a flat rate per GB. The overage charge is completely rediculous. Maybe a flat rate for the connection, then $0.20 a gigabyte after that.
Atleast then when you only use 8-10gb one month you could save money. That or start offering roll-over gigabytes.
If i use 20 gig last month, then i could effectively use 80 this month and break even.
That'd be the only two situations where i'd accept a cap like this if there was an alternative. Im not really into downloading heavy, but there is the occasional month i would break a 50gig cap, and other months only 6-8gig.
So as far as my logic takes me, I would expect some money back or savings for transfering less than the cap.
Seems easier to just charge a FAIR, flat rate per GB though.
But then that would run off all the people on the fence thinking about switching from dialup, if there was no set price. Not sure the system in place will do any different though. | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Tit for tat... There should also be a credit then for each GB under the 50 threshhold. 
Anyway, $2.95 is punitive... clearly meant to curtail online activity, not just recover costs, etc. They want those users to cancel and/or stop downloading. It's not about paying a "fair" share...
I'd bet at least 80% of the normal monthly fee per account goes for paying for things like advertising, tech support, admin/accounting, exec salaries, etc... there might be 15% left to pay for equipment investments (past and future)... the remaining 5% could go down for actual bandwidth.
Yeah... the numbers are pulled out of my nether orifice LOL! But, for a $50/month service cost, I get $2.50 per 50GB or 5 cents/GB.
So... someone downloading 600GB would owe $27.50 in surcharges.
Seems fair to me! | |
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Primus Users Adjust to 50GB Cap
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Is this the only DSL provider with CAPS ??