Alpine6 Premium Member join:2000-01-11 Atlanta, GA 1 edit
1 recommendation |
Alpine6
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 1:28 pm
Classy...Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people.
Adam | |
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| FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ
1 recommendation |
FFH5
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 1:33 pm
Re: Classy...said by Alpine6:Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people. Adam And now we get to hear from all the people defending this because they were too dumb to lock down their connection. As if having a stupid victim somehow justifies their being victimized. The neighbors are scum and they have no defense. | |
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| | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greed Premium Member join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA |
Re: Classy...said by FFH5:said by Alpine6:Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people. Adam The neighbors are scum and they have no defense. Now that's being a bit harsh. | |
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Re: Classy...Ya think?
I'm stealing TkJunkmail's signal right now to read Howard Zinn speeches. | |
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| | | | hopeflickerCapitalism breeds greed Premium Member join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA |
Re: Classy...said by Minister:Ya think? I'm stealing TkJunkmail's signal right now to read Howard Zinn speeches. And i suppose that TkJunkmail would classify pedophiles and rapists as "scum" too. | |
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to hopeflicker
Re: Classy...There is no distiction on anybodies SSID that "announces" if the owner intends this to be public, or if he/she is to stupid to encrypt access. Furthermore, I suggest that since I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get!
Steven Seagal & Linda Tripp in 2008 | |
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| | | | | | envoid join:2002-12-21 Duluth, GA |
envoid
Member
2006-Mar-5 11:48 pm
Re: Classy...said by kdandaoc:Furthermore, I suggest that since I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get! then you are trespassing with your signal to their router/AP... remember, it's a two-way transmission. | |
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| | | | | | | calvoiper join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
Re: Classy...Yeah, yeah....
This is like an apartment building complaining about people standing under their port-cochere when it rains. Without "No Trespassing" signs posted, even if there is enforcement action by authorities there won't be convictions.
Saying that people should be able to leave WiFi hotspots open without anyone using them is like saying I should be able to walk any street in America alone and unarmed at 2:00 am. Nice concept, perhaps, but far from reality.
People need to learn that government can't protect you from everything.
calvoiper | |
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| | | | | | | | PDXPLT join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR |
PDXPLT
Member
2006-Mar-6 8:19 pm
The article ignored one thing ...There have been people arrested for this type of thing for "unauthorized access to a computer system". The article didn't mention this aspect at all; 'kinda treated using your neighbors' wireless access as something cutesy, like taking the morning newspaper sometimes from their driveway.
I don't know how those arrests ended up, but at least in some locales, the officials don't take them lightly. | |
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| | | | | | | | | calvoiper join:2003-03-31 Belvedere Tiburon, CA |
Re: The article ignored one thing ...Yeah, yeah, twice over.
I've seen the story about two guys being arrested for using an unsecured WiFi hotspot at a "big box" retailer in Minneapolis or someplace about 35 times.
What everybody forgets to mention is that the reason they were pursued, apprehended, and charged was that they used the access they got to hack the financial transaction systems of the retailer and stole using that method. The "unauthorized access" charges were just gravy added to the mix--but sensationalistic media hypers ignore or obscure that aspect.
To further the analogy--somebody probably has been charged for trespass for borrowing the porte-cochere of a building as shelter--but only in the context of some greater crime they committed there, like vandalism, robbery, burglary, or theft.
calvoiper | |
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| | | | | | marigoldsGainfully employed, finally MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO |
to kdandaoc
said by kdandaoc:I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get! You can pick up satellite broadband signals in your house too. Heck, you can pick up signals from satellite television too. And they are all radio signals! Try accessing both of those without express permission and see where that gets you.... | |
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to hopeflicker
Glug glug glug glug, I also am gulping all the bandwidth my neighbors dont use p2ping to the tune of 25gigs a day. I have a cantenna direct from compusa pointing out every upstair window. Its so cool and the anonimity is awesome. If the **aa's bust down doors for p2ping content, it wont be mine and I may even be able to watch. Woo Hoo. But in all seriousness, the odds are very low of that ever happening. I can also monitor the broadband usage via the router logs and I am amazed at how little my neighbors actually use their connection. I am sure some households use it a lot but all my neighbors use it on average 1 hour a day. I am happy to keep it warm for them the other 23. And security? I have it all secured for them and even changed the passwords so rifraf wont butt in on our usage. I just love the wireless age. | |
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Re: Classy...How mice of you. | |
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DenverRHamel to Anomus
Anon
2006-Mar-5 8:34 pm
to Anomus
I'm not impressed. You should have made your own cantennas. | |
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| | | | | | ROCINANTEOriginal Member 007 Premium Member join:1999-06-29 Hartsdale, NY |
to Anomus
The odds will rise tomorrow after you are reported. | |
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| | | | | | Jon GebLong time member join:2001-01-09 Howell, MI 1 edit |
to Anomus
I changed a password too on an unsecured router so it couldnt be messed with. I have since stoped using it though and changed it back... There were like 25 people leeching on it. | |
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Re: Classy...So anonymous and Jon here think that changing the web admin password is securing the setup, lol. Anonymous is saying that his neighbors are condoning his action because he has changed their web admin passwords (they let them). I think if you discussed with your neighbors that some may actually say no to it. I don't think he secured the APs and provided the new encryption keys/SSIDs to them | |
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| | | | | | | Jon GebLong time member join:2001-01-09 Howell, MI |
The AP wasnt secured, I just didnt want someone changing settings and crashing the AP. My method was 99% harmless considering everything was set to default signaling that the end user has no idea what they are doing. | |
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| | TamaraBQuestion The Current Paradigm Premium Member join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx ·Verizon FiOS Ubiquiti NSM5 Synology RT2600ac Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:[And now we get to hear from all the people defending this because they were too dumb to lock down their connection.... How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally. Bob | |
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| | | John Galt6Forward, March Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp
1 recommendation |
Re: Classy...said by TamaraB:How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally. I have an AP at 40 feet that runs at the full legal power into an omni. Let's just say that it goes for miles (trees and such notwithstanding). I have the AP connected to a DMZ port on my router. P2P is locked out, as are a few other things, and the speed is throttled to a reasonable value, but generally it is available for use in an unrestricted manner by anyone. My provider does not care if I share my 8000/874 DSL line, I asked them specifically. Have I noticed any slowdowns? Nope. FreeFi in the 'hood. | |
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| | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current Paradigm Premium Member join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx ·Verizon FiOS Ubiquiti NSM5 Synology RT2600ac Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)
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TamaraB
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 8:14 pm
Re: Classy...said by John Galt6:...but generally it is available for use in an unrestricted manner by anyone.... So do I! I live on a Yacht. While at my home dock, where I have DSL, I keep my wireless router open. Many folks passing through appreciate the gesture, and I have made many friends this way. I have never observed "abuse", and if I ever do, it's a simple matter to disconnect the external abuser. When I travel down the coast, there are FEW spots where I can't pick up an open connection; I am just returning the favor. Bob | |
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to John Galt6
Hey John Galt, which Access point do you have btw, maybe I should get one like yours. | |
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| | | marigoldsGainfully employed, finally MVM join:2002-05-13 Saint Louis, MO |
to TamaraB
said by TamaraB:How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally. If it's open intentionally, then it should be no problem to get explicit permission instead of implied permission. So how can you tell? Ask. | |
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| | | | TamaraBQuestion The Current Paradigm Premium Member join:2000-11-08 Da Bronx ·Verizon FiOS Ubiquiti NSM5 Synology RT2600ac Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)
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TamaraB
Premium Member
2006-Mar-6 10:38 am
Re: Classy...said by marigolds:If it's open intentionally, then it should be no problem to get explicit permission instead of implied permission. So how can you tell? Ask. Normally, this is not possible. I advertise my ssid as the name of my boat "tamarab". On a relatively small dock, it's easy to find me physically. Usually this is not the case. My transmission of ssid, along with ip/dhcp information and routing, constitutes my "explicit" (not implied) permission to use the connection; in the same way that putting on your turn signal in your car signals your intent to turn. I see nothing "implied" about it. Bob | |
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| | jsinaiko Premium Member join:2001-04-25 Chicago, IL |
to FFH5
This is idiotic. The FIRST thing I read when I was considering a wireless network in 2002 was to LOCK THE THING DOWN! So, with a bare minimum of homework I knew that I needed to encrypt my wifi before I know ANYTHING else about it! Anything. What planet are these idiots on?
This ain't rocket science. Just spend three minutes - about the time it takes to write a post to this thread - reading the quick-install guide. It'll tell you about WEP or WPA or whatever. It's SO easy. If you can hook up a wireless router you can set the encryption.
No sympathy. If they want a wireless network they need to understand how it works. If their network is wide open they are risking a hellovalot more than slow surfing.
To call the neighbors "scum" is so over the top it makes one wonder what this guy really thinks is important.
Tkjunkmail: get your priorities straight! | |
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| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 4:19 pm
Re: Classy...said by jsinaiko:It'll tell you about WEP or WPA or whatever. It's SO easy. If you can hook up a wireless router you can set the encryption. I've used MAC address filtering for years and haven't had any problem at all. I think when I get better with m0n0wall I might just put my wireless rig on a separate subnet altogether. | |
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| | bear73Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies Premium Member join:2001-06-09 Derry, NH |
to FFH5
Well, when I purchased my last 2 WIFI routers (b,g) there was a quick setup guide that TOLD you that if you don't enable wireless security, others will be able to connectto your connection. It also walked you through setting up basic wireless security. | |
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to FFH5
When it comes to wifi that is blatantly open to everyone, yes, they should feel stupid. Don't get into something you don't understand first. Its as simple as that.
Now if that was said for say hacking a computer...no I wouldn't agree there. But just using an open network is not hacking. Most of the time you aren't even aware of where this connection is actually located.
The neighbors aren't scum. Matter of fact a lot of people who get laptops for the first time aren't even aware that they have wifi on them or what it does. When the internet "magically" is able to be used they simply just say oh well I'll continue to use this.
I'm sure the majority of people in larger cities know what they are doing, but there is a portion of people who don't know what wifi is let alone where it comes from.
The scum are those that would use others computer/network, etc. in order to carry out an attack on another system. So if you want to complain/attack/demonize another do against those that hack computers and cause damage to others. No, I am not implying that every 'hacker' is a malicious one, but I do believe the malicious ones should be dealt with. The term hacker has been smeared by these people and the media. Hacker used to be used for anyone who knew computers in and out. Now its used in a negative connotation. | |
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| a @qwest.net |
a to Alpine6
Anon
2006-Mar-5 6:33 pm
to Alpine6
"I didnt know whether to blame it on the Santa Ana winds or what, says Christine Brodeur, CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency.
christine, ceo means chief executive officer which means i would be embarrased if i were you right about now. | |
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| | RayW Premium Member join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT |
RayW
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 7:41 pm
Re: Classy...said by a :
CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency. Uhhh...look at what she does for a living, then consider the TV and radio comercials that you see. Does it make more sense now? | |
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| | | envoid join:2002-12-21 Duluth, GA |
envoid
Member
2006-Mar-5 11:50 pm
Re: Classy...said by RayW:said by a :
CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency. Uhhh...look at what she does for a living, then consider the TV and radio comercials that you see. Does it make more sense now? Thought the exact same thing! Does this mean then you need to be an idiot to be a CEO if we follow this logic? | |
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| | | | RayW Premium Member join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT |
RayW
Premium Member
2006-Mar-6 7:59 am
Re: Classy...In certain fields anyway. Hmmm....Thinking of some of my upper management, you might be right. | |
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to Alpine6
I love it. Some idiot spends $50 to $90 on a router, just to plug it in without reading the manual. I hope it fries... | |
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Phylop Premium Member join:2002-11-17 Reston, VA |
Phylop
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 1:32 pm
Yep.It really is amazing how unaware people are of their security. I can connect to 5 different unsecured wifi points from my apartment alone. | |
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richk_1957If ..Then..Else Premium Member join:2001-04-11 Minas Tirith |
Personally..My wireless security set-up might not be the best, but when I know I'm not going to need it, I just disable wireless. It's that simple.
I know this isn't a solution to having a good wireless security setup. | |
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atuarreHere come the drums Premium Member join:2004-02-14 EC/SETX SWLA |
atuarre
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 2:12 pm
RE - Bandwidth VampiresI agree with another poster that said the neighbors are scum. Some people would likely say if you don't secure you wifi, then you get what you deserve, but we must remember that not everybody is as tech saavy as some of us, and just because you can do something, in this case, steal Wifi, doesn't mean that you should.
Stealing is stealing. | |
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But.... Pre-Configured RoutersWhat about routers that ISPs lock which prevent the user from intern locking them? | |
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srobmw join:2005-10-01 New Windsor, NY
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srobmw
Member
2006-Mar-5 2:30 pm
VampiresIt's called freedom of the airwaves. Remember, the signal is being sent out beyond your property lines. No one is coming to your house and stealing it.
If you're savvy enough to use a wireless router, you should be savvy enough to secure it.
Nuff said. | |
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rradina join:2000-08-08 Chesterfield, MO 1 edit |
Funny...People lock their cars, homes and lockers at the gym. I think this is just a case of ignorance. If folks knew, I think they would lock them down.
Why is it so difficult for the computing industry to make something drop-dead simple and safe? Broadband and networking should be more like an appliance.
Cable and DSL operators should include NAT firewalls in their devices or give the consumer a basic router/firewall with the modem.
Wireless manufacturers should make some kind of idiot-proof way to setup wireless clients. They could add a USB port on the AP and an extra LED. Insert any old thumb drive and when the AP's LED shines, the drive has been formatted and configured with the router's SSID and a randomized WPA key. When installing the WiFi client on a desktop/laptop, it asks you to insert the thumb drive and it automatically retrieves what it needs.
Granted -- some folks will want total control and there's nothing wrong with that but we'd all starve if using a stove required a "setup wizard" each time we bought a new piece of cookware.
Edit: Now that I think of it, perhaps I should patent that idea as the next diet craze... Perhaps that would fix America's weight problems! | |
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I do itA lot of people around here are paying $45 for Road Runner and barely use it. I know because much of the time their cable modem needs to be rebooted and they don't know it for days or even weeks. I'll log in to read the newsgroups or stuff like BBR, which uses virtually no bandwidth. | |
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Anomus
Anon
2006-Mar-5 4:52 pm
Re: I do itI know just what you mean. I know some people use the pss out of their connection but all my wireless neighbors use it at most an hour a day and some days their log shows they dont use it at all. I am so greatful to use it all the rest of the time via compusa cantennas pointed out my windows. I just love the wireless age and all this p2p goodness. And to express my greatfullness, I changed their passwords from default to keep the rifraf out of their router. I am such a good neighbor. | |
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Secuirty.. simple..This is definetly a touchy subject.. My wife and I have had many discussions over it. To me... I'm of the same opinion as other people.. If you buy somthing learn how to use it. You bought a car... and you lock it.. why ? becuase you don't want someone to steal it or use it. You buy a house.. you lock it. for the same reasons.. and the list goes on. So.. when you buy a wi-fi enabled router.. secure it...
My wife takes the opinion of stealing is stealing. The intesting thing is. If I have ISP X and my neighbour has ISP X.. same service plans.. unlimited bandwidth. Am I really stealing ? I'm paying to use ISP X ? and I'm using it.. no matter which isp you get your not paying for bandwidth your paying for access... It's a never ending discussion..
That being said. the wi-fi manufactures could make it easier to enable some of the features of security.
In any case this topic will go on and on, who's right ? who knows.... | |
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| Tursiops_GTechnoid MVM join:2002-02-06 Brooksville, FL ARRIS TM1602
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Re: Secuirty.. simple..said by Dave Lewis:.... the wi-fi manufactures could make it easier to enable some of the features of security.... Some of them ARE now starting to do just that... For Example, Linksys' new "SecureEasySetup" Pushbutton function on their latest models... While it doesn't provide a True "Soup-to-Nuts" Lockdown of the system, it DOES provide a BASIC level of security, to help keep Joe Average Wi-Fi Leechers out... -Tursiops_G. | |
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Kompressor Premium Member join:2002-02-12 Huntington Beach, CA |
RIAAI hope they don't get sued by the RIAA. | |
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Re: RIAAsaid by Kompressor:I hope they don't get sued by the RIAA. Now you touched on one of the most dangerous aspect of having an unsecured WI-FI. People could be using your signal to distribute copyrighted music or to distribute chld prngrphy and YOU will be the one to get the bad wrap if the operation is discovered because it was being done using your IP! That is why I lock down my wireless network with passwords and encryptions so tough that it would even take NSA a million years to guess and crack respectively. | |
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| KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to Kompressor
also why even deliberate hotspots can be dangerous to run, and brings another question. should the pipe owner be able to be held responsable for what travels over it in the case of a hotspot operator. | |
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HmmmmWell I guess its ok to a point. You can pop on the network as long as you only go to legal web pages and read e-mail it won't be malicious. Don't try to get into the wired part of the network and you won't be malicious. But you can't be on 24/7 surfing the web and downloading because the owners of the router and modem want that connection for some reason. But if you pop on for five minutes look at BBR then leave that would be ok as long as its just one or two people doing it a day. Im saying this because my laptop connects to a secondary router sometimes and I use there connection and get Googles main page then I figure out its not my AP so I switch back. Should it be a major problem if I just got Google. The only time I knowingly connected to my neighbors AP was to diagnose a network problem on my side pop on ,1min of pings to my ip, problem fixed I should go thank my neighbor for his help.
Any time your at "Vampire" status should be punishable by law. But "BBR Leech" is to menial to cause to much damage if you do it responsibly. | |
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Rhobite Premium Member join:2002-02-24 Waltham, MA |
Rhobite
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 5:01 pm
The EthicistRandy Cohen, who writes the the New York Times' Ethicist column says "you may use but not overuse Wi-Fi hot spots you encounter". Mike Godwin of the EFF says "If you're driving around town and someone's left a node open and you pop on and use it just to download some e-mail, feel free". » journalism.berkeley.edu/ ··· 938.htmlI agree. It's fine to hop on and check your e-mail.. if they wanted to secure their router, they would have put a password on it. Downloading files or using someone else's connection regularly probably indicates that you should pay for your own connection sometime. | |
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jap Premium Member join:2003-08-10 038xx |
jap
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 6:11 pm
[rolls eyes]Headline should read: Bandwidth Vampires If you buy a Wi-Fi router, learn to isolate your LAN & shape traffic, then map your locationFrikken fear-based society thinks everyone's out to do harm. Bah. | |
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Vamp5c077 Premium Member join:2003-01-28 MD |
Vamp
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 6:43 pm
I'm a "Bandwidth Vampire" | |
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| DefianceComputer Elite Premium Member join:2002-09-11 Minocqua, WI |
Defiance
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 7:16 pm
Re: I'm a "Bandwidth Vampire"I use MAC Filtering for mine. You can use WEP/TKIP and so on. I have an old laptop that doesn't even support tkip only wep so we use the mac filter since the wep is messed up on it.. | |
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jdir join:2001-05-04 Santa Clara, CA |
jdir
Member
2006-Mar-5 8:41 pm
Go ahead - I dare anyone to use my unprotect WIFIIt's not wep encrypt, it's not secure, go ahead, I dare you to use my WIFI access point | |
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this can prove dangerouswhat if someone downloads child porn on your open wifi | |
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FronkmanAn Apple a day keeps the doctor away Premium Member join:2003-06-23 Saint Louis, MO |
Fronkman
Premium Member
2006-Mar-5 10:12 pm
who is at faultok, here is a new spin: maybe it isn't these people's fault. sure, it is easy to blame them for not "doing their homework" and understanding how WPA, MAC filtering, DMZ, port-forwarding, etc work.
But for once think of it this way: maybe it is the fault of the hardware companies for failing to make technology easy to use? | |
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