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Bandwidth Vampires
If you buy a Wi-Fi router, learn to secure it
A Los Angeles couple couldn't figure out why their Wi-Fi connection suddenly seemed so sluggish, begins a story in the NY Times. "I didn’t know whether to blame it on the Santa Ana winds or what,” says Christine Brodeur, CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency. Mrs. Brodeur was apparently unaware she should secure her hotspot, and neighbors had been drinking from her broadband well.
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Alpine6
Premium Member
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA

1 edit

1 recommendation

Alpine6

Premium Member

Classy...

Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people.

Adam

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by Alpine6:

Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people.

Adam
And now we get to hear from all the people defending this because they were too dumb to lock down their connection. As if having a stupid victim somehow justifies their being victimized. The neighbors are scum and they have no defense.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by FFH5:

said by Alpine6:

Ahhh, those crazy bandwidth vampires - really classy people.

Adam
The neighbors are scum and they have no defense.
Now that's being a bit harsh.

Minister
join:2002-01-02
Fleeting

Minister

Member

Re: Classy...

Ya think?

I'm stealing TkJunkmail's signal right now to read Howard Zinn speeches.

hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium Member
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

hopeflicker

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by Minister:

Ya think?

I'm stealing TkJunkmail's signal right now to read Howard Zinn speeches.
And i suppose that TkJunkmail would classify pedophiles and rapists as "scum" too.
Expand your moderator at work
kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427

kdandaoc to hopeflicker

Member

to hopeflicker

Re: Classy...

There is no distiction on anybodies SSID that "announces" if the owner intends this to be public, or if he/she is to stupid to encrypt access. Furthermore, I suggest that since
I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get!

Steven Seagal & Linda Tripp in 2008

envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA

envoid

Member

Re: Classy...

said by kdandaoc:

Furthermore, I suggest that since
I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get!
then you are trespassing with your signal to their router/AP... remember, it's a two-way transmission.

calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA

calvoiper

Member

Re: Classy...

Yeah, yeah....

This is like an apartment building complaining about people standing under their port-cochere when it rains. Without "No Trespassing" signs posted, even if there is enforcement action by authorities there won't be convictions.

Saying that people should be able to leave WiFi hotspots open without anyone using them is like saying I should be able to walk any street in America alone and unarmed at 2:00 am. Nice concept, perhaps, but far from reality.

People need to learn that government can't protect you from everything.

calvoiper
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

The article ignored one thing ...

There have been people arrested for this type of thing for "unauthorized access to a computer system". The article didn't mention this aspect at all; 'kinda treated using your neighbors' wireless access as something cutesy, like taking the morning newspaper sometimes from their driveway.

I don't know how those arrests ended up, but at least in some locales, the officials don't take them lightly.

calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA

calvoiper

Member

Re: The article ignored one thing ...

Yeah, yeah, twice over.

I've seen the story about two guys being arrested for using an unsecured WiFi hotspot at a "big box" retailer in Minneapolis or someplace about 35 times.

What everybody forgets to mention is that the reason they were pursued, apprehended, and charged was that they used the access they got to hack the financial transaction systems of the retailer and stole using that method. The "unauthorized access" charges were just gravy added to the mix--but sensationalistic media hypers ignore or obscure that aspect.

To further the analogy--somebody probably has been charged for trespass for borrowing the porte-cochere of a building as shelter--but only in the context of some greater crime they committed there, like vandalism, robbery, burglary, or theft.

calvoiper

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

marigolds to kdandaoc

MVM

to kdandaoc
said by kdandaoc:

I pick up somebody elses network in MY house, they in fact are trespassing and deserve what they get!
You can pick up satellite broadband signals in your house too. Heck, you can pick up signals from satellite television too. And they are all radio signals! Try accessing both of those without express permission and see where that gets you....

Anomus
@rr.com

Anomus to hopeflicker

Anon

to hopeflicker
Glug glug glug glug, I also am gulping all the bandwidth my neighbors dont use p2ping to the tune of 25gigs a day. I have a cantenna direct from compusa pointing out every upstair window. Its so cool and the anonimity is awesome. If the **aa's bust down doors for p2ping content, it wont be mine and I may even be able to watch. Woo Hoo. But in all seriousness, the odds are very low of that ever happening. I can also monitor the broadband usage via the router logs and I am amazed at how little my neighbors actually use their connection. I am sure some households use it a lot but all my neighbors use it on average 1 hour a day. I am happy to keep it warm for them the other 23. And security? I have it all secured for them and even changed the passwords so rifraf wont butt in on our usage. I just love the wireless age.
Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI

Freezone

Member

Re: Classy...

How mice of you.

DenverRHamel
@comcast.net

DenverRHamel to Anomus

Anon

to Anomus
I'm not impressed. You should have made your own cantennas.

ROCINANTE
Original Member 007
Premium Member
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY

ROCINANTE to Anomus

Premium Member

to Anomus
The odds will rise tomorrow after you are reported.

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

1 edit

Jon Geb to Anomus

Member

to Anomus
I changed a password too on an unsecured router so it couldnt be messed with. I have since stoped using it though and changed it back... There were like 25 people leeching on it.
shashinka9
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA

shashinka9

Member

Re: Classy...

So anonymous and Jon here think that changing the web admin password is securing the setup, lol. Anonymous is saying that his neighbors are condoning his action because he has changed their web admin passwords (they let them). I think if you discussed with your neighbors that some may actually say no to it. I don't think he secured the APs and provided the new encryption keys/SSIDs to them

Jon Geb
Long time member
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI

Jon Geb

Member

The AP wasnt secured, I just didnt want someone changing settings and crashing the AP. My method was 99% harmless considering everything was set to default signaling that the end user has no idea what they are doing.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

[And now we get to hear from all the people defending this because they were too dumb to lock down their connection....

How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally.

Bob

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

1 recommendation

John Galt6

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by TamaraB:

How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally.
I have an AP at 40 feet that runs at the full legal power into an omni. Let's just say that it goes for miles (trees and such notwithstanding).

I have the AP connected to a DMZ port on my router. P2P is locked out, as are a few other things, and the speed is throttled to a reasonable value, but generally it is available for use in an unrestricted manner by anyone.

My provider does not care if I share my 8000/874 DSL line, I asked them specifically.

Have I noticed any slowdowns? Nope.

FreeFi in the 'hood.


TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by John Galt6:

...but generally it is available for use in an unrestricted manner by anyone....

So do I! I live on a Yacht. While at my home dock, where I have DSL, I keep my wireless router open. Many folks passing through appreciate the gesture, and I have made many friends this way. I have never observed "abuse", and if I ever do, it's a simple matter to disconnect the external abuser.

When I travel down the coast, there are FEW spots where I can't pick up an open connection; I am just returning the favor.

Bob

Anon4now
@mindspring.com

Anon4now to John Galt6

Anon

to John Galt6
Hey John Galt, which Access point do you have btw, maybe I should get one like yours.

marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO

marigolds to TamaraB

MVM

to TamaraB
said by TamaraB:

How can you tell if it is "stupidity" or simply being "allowed"? There are MANY free and open WiFi hot-spots, which are open intentionally.
If it's open intentionally, then it should be no problem to get explicit permission instead of implied permission.
So how can you tell? Ask.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
·Verizon FiOS
Ubiquiti NSM5
Synology RT2600ac
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

TamaraB

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by marigolds:

If it's open intentionally, then it should be no problem to get explicit permission instead of implied permission.
So how can you tell? Ask.
Normally, this is not possible. I advertise my ssid as the name of my boat "tamarab". On a relatively small dock, it's easy to find me physically. Usually this is not the case.

My transmission of ssid, along with ip/dhcp information and routing, constitutes my "explicit" (not implied) permission to use the connection; in the same way that putting on your turn signal in your car signals your intent to turn. I see nothing "implied" about it.

Bob

jsinaiko
Premium Member
join:2001-04-25
Chicago, IL

jsinaiko to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
This is idiotic. The FIRST thing I read when I was considering a wireless network in 2002 was to LOCK THE THING DOWN! So, with a bare minimum of homework I knew that I needed to encrypt my wifi before I know ANYTHING else about it! Anything. What planet are these idiots on?

This ain't rocket science. Just spend three minutes - about the time it takes to write a post to this thread - reading the quick-install guide. It'll tell you about WEP or WPA or whatever. It's SO easy. If you can hook up a wireless router you can set the encryption.

No sympathy. If they want a wireless network they need to understand how it works. If their network is wide open they are risking a hellovalot more than slow surfing.

To call the neighbors "scum" is so over the top it makes one wonder what this guy really thinks is important.

Tkjunkmail: get your priorities straight!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by jsinaiko:

It'll tell you about WEP or WPA or whatever. It's SO easy. If you can hook up a wireless router you can set the encryption.
I've used MAC address filtering for years and haven't had any problem at all. I think when I get better with m0n0wall I might just put my wireless rig on a separate subnet altogether.

bear73
Metnav... Fly The Unfriendly Skies
Premium Member
join:2001-06-09
Derry, NH

bear73 to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
Well, when I purchased my last 2 WIFI routers (b,g) there was a quick setup guide that TOLD you that if you don't enable wireless security, others will be able to connectto your connection. It also walked you through setting up basic wireless security.
Techman21
join:2005-04-14
Richmond, VA

Techman21 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
When it comes to wifi that is blatantly open to everyone, yes, they should feel stupid. Don't get into something you don't understand first. Its as simple as that.

Now if that was said for say hacking a computer...no I wouldn't agree there. But just using an open network is not hacking. Most of the time you aren't even aware of where this connection is actually located.

The neighbors aren't scum. Matter of fact a lot of people who get laptops for the first time aren't even aware that they have wifi on them or what it does. When the internet "magically" is able to be used they simply just say oh well I'll continue to use this.

I'm sure the majority of people in larger cities know what they are doing, but there is a portion of people who don't know what wifi is let alone where it comes from.

The scum are those that would use others computer/network, etc. in order to carry out an attack on another system. So if you want to complain/attack/demonize another do against those that hack computers and cause damage to others. No, I am not implying that every 'hacker' is a malicious one, but I do believe the malicious ones should be dealt with. The term hacker has been smeared by these people and the media. Hacker used to be used for anyone who knew computers in and out. Now its used in a negative connotation.

a
@qwest.net

a to Alpine6

Anon

to Alpine6
"I didn’t know whether to blame it on the Santa Ana winds or what,” says Christine Brodeur, CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency.

christine, ceo means chief executive officer which means i would be embarrased if i were you right about now.

RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT

RayW

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

said by a :

CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency.
Uhhh...look at what she does for a living, then consider the TV and radio comercials that you see. Does it make more sense now?

envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA

envoid

Member

Re: Classy...

said by RayW:

said by a :

CEO of Socket Media, a marketing and public relations agency.
Uhhh...look at what she does for a living, then consider the TV and radio comercials that you see. Does it make more sense now?
Thought the exact same thing! Does this mean then you need to be an idiot to be a CEO if we follow this logic?

RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT

RayW

Premium Member

Re: Classy...

In certain fields anyway. Hmmm....Thinking of some of my upper management, you might be right.

phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL

phattieg to Alpine6

Member

to Alpine6
I love it. Some idiot spends $50 to $90 on a router, just to plug it in without reading the manual. I hope it fries...

Phylop
Premium Member
join:2002-11-17
Reston, VA

Phylop

Premium Member

Yep.

It really is amazing how unaware people are of their security. I can connect to 5 different unsecured wifi points from my apartment alone.

•••••••••••

richk_1957
If ..Then..Else
Premium Member
join:2001-04-11
Minas Tirith

richk_1957

Premium Member

Personally..

My wireless security set-up might not be the best, but when I know I'm not going to need it, I just disable wireless. It's that simple.

I know this isn't a solution to having a good wireless security setup.

•••••••

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium Member
join:2004-02-14
EC/SETX SWLA

atuarre

Premium Member

RE - Bandwidth Vampires

I agree with another poster that said the neighbors are scum. Some people would likely say if you don't secure you wifi, then you get what you deserve, but we must remember that not everybody is as tech saavy as some of us, and just because you can do something, in this case, steal Wifi, doesn't mean that you should.

Stealing is stealing.

••••••

Dr Demento
I Vant Blud
join:2002-01-02
Denville, NJ

Dr Demento

Member

But.... Pre-Configured Routers

What about routers that ISPs lock which prevent the user from intern locking them?
srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY

1 recommendation

srobmw

Member

Vampires

It's called freedom of the airwaves. Remember, the signal is being sent out beyond your property lines. No one is coming to your house and stealing it.

If you're savvy enough to use a wireless router, you should be savvy enough to secure it.

Nuff said.

•••
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

1 edit

rradina

Member

Funny...

People lock their cars, homes and lockers at the gym. I think this is just a case of ignorance. If folks knew, I think they would lock them down.

Why is it so difficult for the computing industry to make something drop-dead simple and safe? Broadband and networking should be more like an appliance.

Cable and DSL operators should include NAT firewalls in their devices or give the consumer a basic router/firewall with the modem.

Wireless manufacturers should make some kind of idiot-proof way to setup wireless clients. They could add a USB port on the AP and an extra LED. Insert any old thumb drive and when the AP's LED shines, the drive has been formatted and configured with the router's SSID and a randomized WPA key. When installing the WiFi client on a desktop/laptop, it asks you to insert the thumb drive and it automatically retrieves what it needs.

Granted -- some folks will want total control and there's nothing wrong with that but we'd all starve if using a stove required a "setup wizard" each time we bought a new piece of cookware.

Edit: Now that I think of it, perhaps I should patent that idea as the next diet craze... Perhaps that would fix America's weight problems!
raderator
join:2003-07-22
Conklin, NY

1 edit

raderator

Member

I do it

A lot of people around here are paying $45 for Road Runner and barely use it. I know because much of the time their cable modem needs to be rebooted and they don't know it for days or even weeks. I'll log in to read the newsgroups or stuff like BBR, which uses virtually no bandwidth.

Anomus
@rr.com

Anomus

Anon

Re: I do it

I know just what you mean. I know some people use the pss out of their connection but all my wireless neighbors use it at most an hour a day and some days their log shows they dont use it at all. I am so greatful to use it all the rest of the time via compusa cantennas pointed out my windows. I just love the wireless age and all this p2p goodness. And to express my greatfullness, I changed their passwords from default to keep the rifraf out of their router. I am such a good neighbor.
Dave Lewis
join:2004-04-21
Nepean, ON

Dave Lewis

Member

Secuirty.. simple..

This is definetly a touchy subject.. My wife and I have had many discussions over it. To me... I'm of the same opinion as other people.. If you buy somthing learn how to use it. You bought a car... and you lock it.. why ? becuase you don't want someone to steal it or use it. You buy a house.. you lock it. for the same reasons.. and the list goes on. So.. when you buy a wi-fi enabled router.. secure it...

My wife takes the opinion of stealing is stealing. The intesting thing is. If I have ISP X and my neighbour has ISP X.. same service plans.. unlimited bandwidth. Am I really stealing ? I'm paying to use ISP X ? and I'm using it.. no matter which isp you get your not paying for bandwidth your paying for access... It's a never ending discussion..

That being said. the wi-fi manufactures could make it easier to enable some of the features of security.

In any case this topic will go on and on, who's right ? who knows....

Tursiops_G
Technoid
MVM
join:2002-02-06
Brooksville, FL
ARRIS TM1602

1 edit

Tursiops_G

MVM

Re: Secuirty.. simple..

said by Dave Lewis:

.... the wi-fi manufactures could make it easier to enable some of the features of security....
Some of them ARE now starting to do just that... For Example, Linksys' new "SecureEasySetup" Pushbutton function on their latest models...

While it doesn't provide a True "Soup-to-Nuts" Lockdown of the system, it DOES provide a BASIC level of security, to help keep Joe Average Wi-Fi Leechers out...

-Tursiops_G.

Kompressor
Premium Member
join:2002-02-12
Huntington Beach, CA

Kompressor

Premium Member

RIAA

I hope they don't get sued by the RIAA.
SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY

SilentMan

Member

Re: RIAA

said by Kompressor:

I hope they don't get sued by the RIAA.
Now you touched on one of the most dangerous aspect of having an unsecured WI-FI. People could be using your signal to distribute copyrighted music or to distribute chld prngrphy and YOU will be the one to get the bad wrap if the operation is discovered because it was being done using your IP! That is why I lock down my wireless network with passwords and encryptions so tough that it would even take NSA a million years to guess and crack respectively.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Kompressor

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to Kompressor
also why even deliberate hotspots can be dangerous to run, and brings another question. should the pipe owner be able to be held responsable for what travels over it in the case of a hotspot operator.
ColateralDMG
join:2005-06-13
Mcdonough, GA

1 edit

ColateralDMG

Member

Hmmmm

Well I guess its ok to a point. You can pop on the network as long as you only go to legal web pages and read e-mail it won't be malicious. Don't try to get into the wired part of the network and you won't be malicious. But you can't be on 24/7 surfing the web and downloading because the owners of the router and modem want that connection for some reason. But if you pop on for five minutes look at BBR then leave that would be ok as long as its just one or two people doing it a day. I’m saying this because my laptop connects to a secondary router sometimes and I use there connection and get Google’s main page then I figure out its not my AP so I switch back. Should it be a major problem if I just got Google. The only time I knowingly connected to my neighbors AP was to diagnose a network problem on my side pop on ,1min of pings to my ip, problem fixed I should go thank my neighbor for his help.

Any time your at "Vampire" status should be punishable by law. But "BBR Leech" is to menial to cause to much damage if you do it responsibly.

Rhobite
Premium Member
join:2002-02-24
Waltham, MA

Rhobite

Premium Member

The Ethicist

Randy Cohen, who writes the the New York Times' Ethicist column says "you may use but not overuse Wi-Fi hot spots you encounter". Mike Godwin of the EFF says "If you're driving around town and someone's left a node open and you pop on and use it just to download some e-mail, feel free". »journalism.berkeley.edu/ ··· 938.html

I agree. It's fine to hop on and check your e-mail.. if they wanted to secure their router, they would have put a password on it. Downloading files or using someone else's connection regularly probably indicates that you should pay for your own connection sometime.

jap
Premium Member
join:2003-08-10
038xx

jap

Premium Member

[rolls eyes]

Headline should read:

Bandwidth Vampires
If you buy a Wi-Fi router, learn to isolate your LAN & shape traffic, then map your location


Frikken fear-based society thinks everyone's out to do harm. Bah.

Vamp
5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD

Vamp

Premium Member

I'm a "Bandwidth Vampire"


Defiance
Computer Elite
Premium Member
join:2002-09-11
Minocqua, WI

Defiance

Premium Member

Re: I'm a "Bandwidth Vampire"

I use MAC Filtering for mine. You can use WEP/TKIP and so on. I have an old laptop that doesn't even support tkip only wep so we use the mac filter since the wep is messed up on it..
jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA

jdir

Member

Go ahead - I dare anyone to use my unprotect WIFI

It's not wep encrypt, it's not secure, go ahead, I dare you to use my WIFI access point

odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

odreian615

Member

this can prove dangerous

what if someone downloads child porn on your open wifi

Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium Member
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO

Fronkman

Premium Member

who is at fault

ok, here is a new spin: maybe it isn't these people's fault. sure, it is easy to blame them for not "doing their homework" and understanding how WPA, MAC filtering, DMZ, port-forwarding, etc work.

But for once think of it this way: maybe it is the fault of the hardware companies for failing to make technology easy to use?

••••