WSJ Claims Verizon Scaling Back Fios Nervous Investors... Users in our Verizon forum point to a Wall Street Journal (reg required) piece that suggests Verizon is not hitting deployment goals - landing 44 FiosTV franchise approvals last year, slightly more than half the company's target for the year. Verizon is spending a lot of money trying to convince lawmakers (and the public) that local franchises need to be eliminated. The Journal claims Verizon is backing off ambitions. "To save time and money, Verizon has scaled back its "fiber to the home" plan to something more modest that doesn't necessarily put fiber in people's living rooms. Originally Verizon talked of stringing optical fiber lines -- the same type that form the backbone of the world's telecommunications infrastructure -- directly into the living quarters of homes. Now, Verizon says it has decided in many cases to stop the fiber rollout outside the home. From there, old-fashioned coaxial cable will carry the data indoors. Except as one of our users notes, the piece makes it sound like Verizon just changed course to please investors. The fiber/coax solution was their plan from very early on in the project.
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  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
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Mount Airy, MD | Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? Verizon should stop wasting time and money trying to get local franchise agreements and focus only on the states which grant companies a statewide franchise agreement or on those communities which grant favorable franchise arrangements. As other communities/states are bypassed, the people who want FIOS can then vote out the governments that are standing in the way.
Like I said in previous forums, why would any state or community not want some kind of fiber-based Internet access, especially when a private company is willing to deploy it on their nickel and not yours?
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|  | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
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Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? Verizon should deploy FiOS and then do a suprise IPTV turn on with or without franchise agreements once the network is in place. and call the IPTV a Data service and not a cable TV service.
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| | |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
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Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? said by Kearnstd:Verizon should deploy FiOS and then do a suprise IPTV turn on with or without franchise agreements once the network is in place. and call the IPTV a Data service and not a cable TV service. That is exactly what AT&T is doing. And then daring the local community to go into court where AT&T are sure they will win.
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| Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? said by ThrowDemsOut:said by Kearnstd:Verizon should deploy FiOS and then do a suprise IPTV turn on with or without franchise agreements once the network is in place. and call the IPTV a Data service and not a cable TV service. That is exactly what AT&T is doing. And then daring the local community to go into court where AT&T are sure they will win. Forget court. If the video deployment is a hit, can you imagine local politicians trying to pull the product from happy voters? | |
| | | | | | | Make more sense to get (TV) franchise license, before install? Just a thought.
Wouldn't it put more pressure on (local) governments if Verizon didn't begin the months long process of installing fiber *UNTIL* they had whatever (TV) franchise required, in hand?
Such pressure only likely to be a bit more than noticable?
Essentially pointless?
Internet / Phone only ain't "never" gonna' pay to install FiOS into an entire town, without the vital TV segment? | |
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| |  rec9140Provoice just DO it
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Mulberry, FL | said by Kearnstd:
Verizon should deploy FiOS and then do a suprise IPTV turn on with or without franchise agreements once the network is in place. and call the IPTV a Data service and not a cable TV service.
EXACTLY! ! !
Although as far as I am personlly concerned they should just forget the stupid video service. I am a very happy dish user, and that ain't changing. The video offering just can't match what I get from Dish.
I really don't get the whoopdeeedoo about the TV part. HD, don't care, PPV, don't care, VOD, don't care. Can't offer west cost networks, or match the movie line up I get, so its a turkey.
I am all for competition as it keeps the greedy crapble companies in line, but if this is slowing down getting fiber for data to me. DITCH IT!
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2 edits | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? quote:
I really don't get the whoopdeeedoo about the TV part. HD, don't care, PPV, don't care, VOD, don't care. Can't offer west cost networks, or match the movie line up I get, so its a turkey.
You're looking at it backwards. The only way they can "sell" FIOS to investors is to convince them that this new fiber pipe is actually needed for something. Problem is, old coax and twisted pair *works just fine* for high speed internet service for the vast majority of people. TV is about the only thing phone copper can't do well, although SBC/AT&T seems determined to fit a square peg in a round hole.
I'm glad you like your Dish service, but it's really a dinosaur. You haven't seen how useful a "movie lineup" can be until you've seen what happens when you combine free VOD with your premium channel subscriptions. Now you can watch *any* movie that's being aired on premium channels *whenever you want* from a categorized list. Way more useful! And who cares about HD? I do!
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Mount Airy, MD | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? said by djrobx:And who cares about HD? I do! Must... Have... HD...
I was really pissed when Comcast stopped carrying USA in HD. Their HD channel lineup outside of premium channels is now just a subset of what I can get off-air. I hate non-HD programming so much that I don't even bother watching most of the non-HD channels... heck, I even watch PBS because its in HD and I can't stand public broadcasting!
I figured once I got a house I could just get all of my HD off-air since Comcast doesn't have much of a selection anyway. As for FIOS... if they offered a huge array of HD programming, I would jump.
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| | | | | rec9140Provoice just DO it
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Mulberry, FL | said by djrobx:
You're looking at it backwards. The only way they can "sell" FIOS to investors is to convince them that this new fiber pipe is actually needed for something. Problem is, old coax and twisted pair *works just fine* for high speed internet service for the vast majority of people. TV is about the only thing phone copper can't do well, although SBC/AT&T seems determined to fit a square peg in a round hole.
Thats the problem the investors are idiots as well as the analysts. There are only looking for QUICK $$$ not LONG TERM FUTURE VIABILITY of the NETWORK AND COMPANY. VZ will be WAY AHEAD of the "Death Star" company with its fiber network that it will take years for them to catch up. It may also end some of the merger mania. Cooper is only good for HSI, IF the ILEC decides to invest in the network to get DSL to 100% areas. My area, forget it, SLC's etc. all over the place, DSL is never coming to my area. VZ made a choice to dump copper and go fiber, good move. This is one time when shooting the messenger is needed.
said by djrobx:
I'm glad you like your Dish service, but it's really a dinosaur. You haven't seen how useful a "movie lineup" can be until you've seen what happens when you combine free VOD with your premium channel subscriptions. Now you can watch *any* movie that's being aired on premium channels *whenever you want* from a categorized list.
I have this thing called a DVD-R which quite nicely records what I want, and plays it back when I want. No need for VOD. This is another turkey as far as me, I don't see the need with PVR's, DVD-R's and even a VCR.
FIOS TV offerings do not match the present level of movie channels I get now, and thus its not useful for me. I am not downgrading channels I watch just because its there. Theres no savings if I can not watch what I want on a channel because I don't get it.
said by djrobx:
Way more useful! And who cares about HD? I do!
HD is a turkey, I am not impressed, and its a waste of bandwidth be DBS or fiber or coax. HD is for the uber niche videophile, and thats not me and its a very small group. If floats your boat,great, I am tired of hearing about it. I am not impressed with HD. A simple conversion to digital format for OTA, fine.
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| | | | | |  56403739Less than 5 months leftPremium
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Naples, FL
kudos:2 | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? HD is a turkey, I am not impressed, and its a waste of bandwidth be DBS or fiber or coax. HD is for the uber niche videophile, and thats not me and its a very small group. If floats your boat,great, I am tired of hearing about it. I am not impressed with HD. A simple conversion to digital format for OTA, fine. You've hit that nail right on the head. Even the content providers know this and are far more interested in the "multicasting" (multi-channel) capability of ATV than the HD aspect, which is mostly a money-losing toy. | |
| | | | | | | | Fair enough, and I can understand your sentiments. But you have to admit that HD signal TV in some format (probably several) will continue to gain traction as the hardware prices come down and new products are launched. The way I see it the older 720p only stuff will become the baseline affordable screens, while the newer, fancier, 1080p screens will become the new top niche. There's just too much perceived profit potential driving the HD market right now for it to slow down at this point. Just look at all the hype concerning blu-ray and HD-DVD...Truthfully I could care less about those devices because they are going to hose the whole concept with draconian hardware/software protection schemes. But, just because I'm uninterested, doesn't mean there aren't thousands lined up to buy into the fiasco. | |
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| | | | said by Kearnstd: call the IPTV a Data service and not a cable TV service. Exactly right... the whole point of IPTV, it's all data... video=data. For that matter, voice=data, web pages=data, everything is just plain data. The experience you get from the data depends on what you use for the Human-System Interface, Video display, PC, telephone, audio receiver (radio over IP - why not?). | |
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| | | | | | Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? Sometimes it's really hard to be coherent first thing in the morning. | |
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| Re: Why Is Verizon Wasting Time With Unfriendly Governments? said by rdmiller:Sometimes it's really hard to be coherent first thing in the morning. Apparently also very difficult to think also.
Whats with all the conspiracy issues here.
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| | | | | If the Bells don't have to get franchise agreements then cable companies shouldn't have to either. That would make it a fair playing field. | |
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Aleck79
join:2003-07-23
College Station, TX | Stop outside of the home. ...Wait wasn't this the original, and same idea they are currently using? The run it to the outside of your house to the ONT, which gives converts to coax which is run inside your home.
Or if I am reading that wrong, they are going to not deploy fiber on your property line at all, no digging up the yard, but that seems like they would just use the old POTs crap and still have to bury a coax line? | |
| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Stupid WSJ reporting said by Aleck79:...Wait wasn't this the original, and same idea they are currently using? The run it to the outside of your house to the ONT, which gives converts to coax which is run inside your home. Of course. VZ never planned to use fiber for home networking.
This is just stupid reporting, probably by some liberal arts major with little understanding about what they are wrintg about. These guys are never held accountable for these errors, either. | |
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| | WSJ Misleading quote:
To save time and money, Verizon has scaled back its "fiber to the home" plan to something more modest that doesn't necessarily put fiber in people's living rooms
That's pretty misleading for a major paper if there's been no real technology shift in recent months. The piece reads a little like a Fios hit piece. Either the WSJ didn't do their homework, or they're working an agenda, which is either:
1. pressuring Verizon on behalf of investors to scale back the project, which is what they've been hoping for.
2. Helping Verizon sell this idea that if a community fights their franchising system and actually has the nerve to try and improve their community in the process, they'll be left in the stone-age. | |
|  Gwailo
join:2000-07-16
Richardson, TX | And SBC said ... "Project Lightspeed minimizes deployment time and cost by using both a Fiber to the Premise (FTTP) and Fiber to the Neighborhood solution. This approach gives SBC's customers the IP capabilities they want — integrated digital TV, super-high-speed broadband and voice over IP services — at one-fourth the cost and time as an FTTP-only overbuild."
»www.sbc.com/gen/press-room?pid=4···se=check | |
| ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
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Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 |  WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth
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Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth said by ThrowDemsOut:The WSJ really got it wrong on putting fiber INSIDE the home. That was never the plan. But they got the part about the pressures from investors and the problems and costs of a rapid roll-out right. Verizon has a good plan, but Wall St just won't wait the 10 yrs it takes to really make Fios a paying proposition. That will cause Verizon to slow down deployment. It takes a lot of money and time to roll-out brand new infrastructure. Just ask the cable companies - it took them decades to get where they are now. and where are the cable companies now? Not in very good shape IMO. We're going backwards in time, not forward.
This is a great country, but too many people have too many says in what can and cannot be done and sometimes it hinders our ability to push forward, to move into a new era of technology, to lead the world.
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Whittier, AK | Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth said by Rob:and where are the cable companies now? Not in very good shape IMO. We're going backwards in time, not forward. This is a great country, but too many people have too many says in what can and cannot be done and sometimes it hinders our ability to push forward, to move into a new era of technology, to lead the world. Yea, cable companies are really hurting?
"But even as Verizon hopes to snatch business from cable companies, the cable companies are grabbing business from Verizon. In the Northeast, Verizon's home territory, cable giants Comcast Corp., Cablevision Systems Corp. and Time Warner Inc. are enjoying early success in selling phone service over cable lines along with television channels." | |
| | | | RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
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Kendall, FL
kudos:2 | Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth said by caco:said by Rob:and where are the cable companies now? Not in very good shape IMO. We're going backwards in time, not forward. This is a great country, but too many people have too many says in what can and cannot be done and sometimes it hinders our ability to push forward, to move into a new era of technology, to lead the world. Yea, cable companies are really hurting?
"But even as Verizon hopes to snatch business from cable companies, the cable companies are grabbing business from Verizon. In the Northeast, Verizon's home territory, cable giants Comcast Corp., Cablevision Systems Corp. and Time Warner Inc. are enjoying early success in selling phone service over cable lines along with television channels."
Just because I don't think they are in great shape doesn't mean they aren't at least pulling a profit. Comcast has invisible caps, OOL has invisible caps and TW has AOL stuck to it.
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|  TopmounterSent By Grocery Clerks
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Evergreen, CO | "Video" has (or had) the sex appeal to sell the expensive network upgrade to the Wall Street crowd.
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| Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth I dunno, I think it might be the video component that scares them most. You can sell the need for additional bandwidth. But with entrenched cable/sat competition and a slew of IP video services, on-demand, place-shifting, and other services, I'd be worried about telco TV.
The best way to sell it I guess is to bundle, but that's still a long time before Telco-TV becomes profitable. | |
| | | | TopmounterSent By Grocery Clerks
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Evergreen, CO | Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth Without some "sex appeal", Wall Street would have been happy to cash cow the Telcos into twisted pair oblivion.
I think you are correct though, when it comes to video services, the Telcos don't know what they don't know and it is going to be quite sometime before they have a widely deployed, competitive product that is financially viable (assuming they even have the stomach to get there).
Cable and Satellite haven't even begun to compete.
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| Re: WSJ got it wrong on fiber inside home; but right on growth I certainly wouldn't want to be trying to compete in the video space in 2010. If the offerings are good from the five-zillion companies planning to offer TV to iPod, phone, and everything else - there becomes no need for traditional "cable" service, or anything like it.
Existing cable-operators could have a hard time, much less a telco with only 45% of its footprint capable of offering IPTV.
That's without even mentioning piracy and show-trading, which I'll assume will explode even more in popularity. | |
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| | Typical This is par for the course, PA was promised a 45 mps up and down in the 1990's, now they are backing off of deployment after being left off the hook.
I don't know why I am even surprised anymore with this company. Even as a Republican, I don't see how the deregulation of the telcos has helped anyone except for the stock holders and they were already in good shape with a rock solid regulated stock.
Maybe when we fall out of the top 50 in broadband penetration someone will actually do something about it. | |
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| Re: Typical Quit your bitching about PA verizon is rolling out fiber there and doing it as fast as they can in other areas.
It's not their fault your intolerable leaders decided to try and stop roll outs in areas because they weren't getting kick backs.
This is the market of the US always has been always will be it's called a trend. Republican run government always had and always will devalue tech stocks, while democratic run government value the tech stock. It's life.
Verizon pays dividends YEARLY and Modest gains. Greedy stock holders and people like the jack ass who wrote this article are what is holding back our country from decent broadband.
Your damned by "the street" if you don't roll out and your damned if you do. What is the point of rolling out if you got whiny ass investors crying about how they can't buy a new Bentley to 1 up their neighbor in this pissing contest we made life to be ?
Rome wasn't built in a day ! But you expect because your in PA that we get the whole fleet of verizon techs down there and wire the whole state because you gave them tax breaks ? Get real. They are rolling out where they can to try and get the most early adopters so they can wire the whole area. Stop whining about it cut down some of the forests and build a bridge to get over the river of tears we all cry for you because you don't have fiber to the home.
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join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: Typical I'm from PA and I'm not complaining about Verizon's rollout of FiOS. Lots of Verizon techs have been spotted locally working hard on the rollout so it is local politics and Wall street that are the impediments. IMHO both Democrats and Republicans share the blame. Our Governor, a democrat, only cares about his own image and bringing more gambling to the state. | |
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cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK | WSJ doing some light lifting for VZ investors Expect more pressure from investor community. In a perfect world, Vz would be seen as a company looking towards it future but in the real world, large investors have 6-12 months time frame for ROI. Hopefully VZ ceo can keep its Board of Directors onboard and no drastic scaledowns happen. ATT buying BS didn't help things for VZ and investors are going to push for VZ to do some buying of its own. | |
| Jonbo298
join:2004-01-12
Council Bluffs, IA | Fiber, the new Cable This is what investors fail to realize and Verizon is failing to tell investors. This isn't a short term job to deploy Fiber. Cable didnt just spring up overnight, it took quite awhile to get it to a majority of the households in the country. | |
| | cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK | Re: Fiber, the new Cable said by Jonbo298:Cable didnt just spring up overnight, it took quite awhile to get it to a majority of the households in the country. Your absolutely right but the difference is cable deployed its fiber during the 90. In the 90 you could have a crappy company ,change it name to crap.com or crappy.net and your stock would go up 100 fold in a week. No pressure from investor class because all telecom and internet stocks where just kicking ass and taking names. Not so today. If your not hitting WS expectations then you are going to ge trashed. VZ just decided to deploy fiber about 5 years too late for most big investors(mutual funds and sate pensions). | |
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kjl1977
join:2003-02-20
Bolingbrook, IL | Fiber Me The problem really comes in the fact that, as much as you and I might want it, I don't think the American public as a whole is even ready for fiber. Hell, I know people that are still asking me how DSL is and if they should upgrade from dial-up. DSL and Cable haven't even reached their peak yet.
That said, the first of these companies to get their fiber in the greatest amount of area will win, hands down. | |
| | | Don't trade FIOS today for loss of freedom tomorrow This is exactly the way it should be happening. Verizon isn't changing its plans because of the cost of the rollout, they were fully aware of the costs.
Verizon only made this announcement because they are terrified that 'net neutrality' laws will pass. They are desperate to try and get the public on their side. Of course, it's not going to work, and verizon will 'reconsider' the slowdown once it realizes this shallow and meaningless tactic is failing.
Look at shaw, and the uproar over the $10.00/month charge to carry OTHER COMPANIES voice traffic. That's Verizon wet dream come true. Verizon is a dinosaur, and is trying to get back to the glory days of .75cents/min phone calls, and making you rent the telephone in your house. It will never happen, because when even the REPUBLICAN leader of the commerce committee is starting to lobby for Net Neutrality laws, you know it's going to happen. Especially in an election year. All Verizons stolen tax break money, and all verizons lying marketing people in the world won't bring back the world domination power verizon is seeking. Verizon moves bits. Period. Make a business out of that, or get out of the way.
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| nshulga
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Morrisville, PA | So WSJ is full of bs This is news how? | |
| | | | wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Life's unfair, but give me a break! VZ is laying fiber everywhere. Most bang for the buck. Problem is, no one wants to wait any amount of time for a 500% return on their money, so VZ will light up what it thinks it can sell 1st. Articles like this just (unfairly) keep the pressure on VZ to only lay fiber where it can get the quickest return, instead of setting priorities based on need of BB or proximity to other fiber areas.
VZ knows this is the future of the company, just trying not to lose all its market capitalization in the process | |
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| | Hmm The funny thing is that verizon is doing their fttp backwards. The areas that need it and will have the most people subscribe to it are being done last.
Also On Long Island with Cablevision they will have more of a fight and won't be as easy to win customers over as it is in states with time warner and charter. On long island the speeds are about the same and once cabelvision dumps analog they will have more bandwidth to add more channels. we already have services like looking for a car on your tv and looking for a house on your tv.
Why go into a market where you will have less success? Shouldn't they be doing the parts of the country that they will have the least resistance first ? | |
| | | | Re: Hmm Yeah I was wondering about this I mean one block in Mannhattan will probably bring Verizon more revenue than these smaller towns. I wonder what they do about the 32 person per node thing though because in buildings it is different. Do they install several nodes per building? | |
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| | They need to get economies of scale. Simply put, if there were MORE companies offering access to part of the BACKBONE at deep discount prices, this would not be a problem. It's the same as in the days of $30 to send a telegram across the ocean back in the 1800's and they charged by the WORD. There need to be providers that can do the job cheaper and offer more bandwidth with MEGA fiber channels of THOUSANDS of terabits at pennies per terabyte... not thousands as they are today!
This is the industry's problem to work out and unfortunatley, since we have a percieved US against THEM mentality about it all (telco, vs cableco vs satellite, vs international partners), this won't happen overnight.
It will take a LOOONG time.
Don't forget, its orders of magnitude easier to wire a country like Japan, or the UK, or Netherlands, or Korea than one like U.S.A. So, provided there isn't WWIII with Iran in the next 20 years it will all work itself out. | |
|  xdeadhead220, 221, Whatever It Takes.Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA
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| make sure the sub contractors know how to drive first this showed up at a local vz garage. fios subcontractor rolled brand new 75k line truck. ya know for all the safety that verizon preaches, they really ought to make sure the subs are certified to drive the correct vehicles. this is not the only wrecked, new truck there. this couldnt possibly have any effect on the scaling back of fios rollouts. could it?
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