 raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| ZoneAlarm has worked well for me for almost 7 years Got the free one back in 1999, moved to pro version in 2001. All my home and small business boxes use ZP Pro and have had no issues with it. It even works on my Windows 2003 boxes, even though ZoneAlarm officially doe snot support it.
Pro seems to be the best deal IMHO. Kapersky is better for AV, so their security suite version is not worth it for me. | |
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 | whocares
Premium
join:2003-07-26
..
1 edit | ZA free, WOW, thats got me worried NOW, WOW after seeing the test results,
»www.firewallleaktester.com/tests.php
al this time i thought I was "protected ok with the za free firewall, now I'am going to d/l the "K", and try that one, & see how it works, "jazzy"
p.s. according to that poll/results even micro win firewalled failed miserbally.
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I try to be friends with everyone,wary of a few,
& will always be an enemy to some reguardless of what we do
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| | seankelly
join:2005-09-05
UK
| Re: ZA free, WOW, thats got me worried NOW, As I understand it, for most of these leaks to be a problem somebody would need to install a malicious program on my PC. Common sense should be a pretty effective defence.
Out of interest I downloaded & installed CoreForce, which I'd seen mentioned in this forum. It seemed to work pretty well, and to be very comprehensive, although I didn't put it through all the tests because it slowed my laptop down to a crawl. It also took ages to install and nothing worked afterwards, although functionality was restored bit by bit using the learning wizard. | |
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| | whocares
Premium
join:2003-07-26
.. | oops double post | |
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SNT
Premium
join:2002-07-17
Satellite Beach, FL | I like ... iptables
-SNT | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs: | Firewall? I don't need no stinking firewall! | |
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99664227
Heavily MODerated
Premium
join:2002-11-21
USA
| Re: Firewall? said by Cheese  :I don't need no stinking firewall! True Dat!
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Market go up. Market go down. | |
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GilbertMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ | Hmm Little Snitch | |
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crypto7ogic
join:2001-08-29
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: Hmm said by GilbertMark :Little Snitch Try NetBarrier... has the outgoing functionality of LS plus a lot more. | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | What do you need extra for? Linksys router, Windows XP firewall on.
I don't see all the need for the extra stuff. | |
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Derspankster
Premium
join:2003-02-12
Marion, OH
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by Heterman :Linksys router, Windows XP firewall on. I don't see all the need for the extra stuff. Me either. I've been running 4 boxes on a network that way for quite some time now. No problems what-so-ever.
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I thought I made a mistake once but I was wrong | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by wriley : Why the hell would I be worried about outbound traffic. As long as my system has no viruses and spyware Im fine. Once a program gets onto your system no ammount of outbound protection is going to help your messed up computer. My thoughts exactly. If it can't get in, then how's it gonna send stuff out? People need to be more cautious of what emails they open and where they browse. Maybe they should consider getting a decent AV software. | |
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barnett25
join:2004-01-26
Huntington, WV
| Ah, but how do you know if there is something on your computer? Antivirus and adaware don't detect everything. But when a suspicious program pops up trying to get out just after you went to a "bad" site or opened an email you know something is on your computer. That way you are not one of the millions of people who's computers are part of a botnet without them even knowing it. | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR | Re: What do you need extra for? I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by Heterman :I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. Get out much?  | |
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nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
| said by Heterman :I watch where I go and what I do. Simple as that. That does NOT mean you are not infected with anything, nor that you won't ever be.
This level of ignorance is what spawns massive networks of zombie PC's, or how your personal information leaks out to some companies etc.
Anyone, who for even a second believes they're immune just because they think they're "careful" is seriously delusional.
There's no such thing. These softwares/hardwares are created for a reason. They're not just there for the hell of it.
Sorry Heterman, I don't mean to be insulting, but this kind of ignorance is seen all to often, and when you frequent a massive online community like this one with several experts and information about security, there's no excuse for anyone to be saying "I don't need a firewall." or "I don't need an AV". That is complete BS.
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Biting off more then we can chew... | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: What do you need extra for? I never said I didn't have a firewall. I use XP firewall and I am behind a Linksys router. Did you not see that post? I think not, but in case you did, keep reading.
I just don't believe in the software firewalls. Not that they may not work, it's just I don't see a reason.
Oh, lastly, if you think my computer is infected with some virus or even spyware, I will be more than happy to run whatever programs/applications you have in your toolbox. How much money/toolpoints do you wanna bet that my system is clean? It has been clean for a long time now. By the way, what AV do you use? | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by tc1uscg : Yeah.. lots of people said the same thing about seat belts, air bags and condoms..  All it takes is one time and it (they) have paid for themselves.. I think that's the point. That's not exactly a valid parallel to surfing without a software firewall. For one, "automobile accident" can't get into your car and make your seatbelts not work without you knowing.
I don't use a software firewall anymore because I have good surfing habits and thus have never seen one block something that should have been blocked.
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Hail Xenu! | |
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DownTheShore
Tar and Feather Joe Lieberman
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
clubs:
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by Combat Chuck :said by tc1uscg : Yeah.. lots of people said the same thing about seat belts, air bags and condoms.. All it takes is one time and it (they) have paid for themselves.. I think that's the point. That's not exactly a valid parallel to surfing without a software firewall. For one, "automobile accident" can't get into your car and make your seatbelts not work without you knowing. I don't use a software firewall anymore because I have good surfing habits and thus have never seen one block something that should have been blocked. But all it takes is one mistyped URL and then you can accidentally wind up someplace you never wanted to go, no matter how "good" your surfing habits are. 
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA
2 edits | Re: What do you need extra for? said by DownTheShore :But all it takes is one mistyped URL and then you can accidentally wind up someplace you never wanted to go, no matter how "good" your surfing habits are. 1. I don't use IE as my main browser
2. The settings for IE are locked down
3. I know what processes should be running and when
So my surfing habits have little to do with where I go but how I get there. In addition I've never had a software firewall that didn't cause me to have to work around it; be it causing some software to not work properly or a reduction in my speeds software firewalls have been nothing but trouble for me add to that the fact that I have never had it actually pop up and tell me something was connecting that I didn't know was going to do so. And I'm not telling anyone not to use a software firewall if you want to use it go ahead; just remember there is the school of thought that if your system is already compromised you can't rely on the software present on it to let you know.
There are too many chicken littles posing as security experts running around insisting that everyone use this or that in the stead of knowing your software, knowing what you're doing, and knowing the tools available.
I was yelled at the other day by a friend who runs no less than 3 on demand spyware scanners and multiple on demand AV's in addition to multiple software firewalls. He said my system was insecure and then went on to complain that his system was running slowly and thus he thought he was infected with something.
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by wriley : Well for one I have virus protection and I have done virus scans and spyware scans, now besides for some cookies I have never in 11 years of broadband been infected. And how does it pay for its self. ...... so how would it pay for its self? Where is my cost? Where is my accident without a seatbelt? 3rd party firewalls are great for people who dont know much about computers.
BINGO! That's why people are arguing with you. A IT person worth thier weight will never belittle someone because they want peace of mind. You explain the risks, the pros/cons and provide them services based on needs, wants and habits. Would you buy a teenager a cell phone with a 100 minute plan, telling them NEVER to go over?  I've worked around electronics in the military for 20 years. I now work in a central office of a telco going on 7+ years. I use to NEVER wear a wriststrap when working with any IC boards, PC's, etc.. But I do now because it's required. I've never fried a board in all my times of working with PC's by not wearing static strap so why should I? So, I've got 27 years of being around PC's and the like and have yet to fry a board. What does that prove? Nothing. But my company requires us to wear them. Why? Why would I take a chance of frying a OC192 transceiver board just because I've never done it before? And because they pay me to be careful. You can count yourself lucky as you never get "trashed". I've gone in and fixed peoples systems that would be better off just replacing the hard drive and starting over (I do this on the side). I visit sites that try to dump anything they can on your system. I want peace of mind, I have it. Do us all a favor. Don't belittle people because they want this peace mind. Rather it's a hour you spend restoring your system or whatever. I don't spend 1 minute. My cost? Nothing. For the cost of taking my family of 5 out to Wendy's, I know I'm safe even though I take chances. | |
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nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON | Re: What do you need extra for? I don't believe that's what he said at all. Quit being an ass.
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
2 edits | said by wriley :WTF??? You never "restore" your system? Wow thats great never re-imaging ever, you are very lucky. You sound like you know alot about viruses. Please explain how it would ever be better to replace the HDD then the format and reinstall? You have to spend the same amount of time with the new HDD. Well, for one, HD's are so cheap, take the subjects 80gb out and slap in a 200. Or stick in a couple of 120's, and put critical data on the 2nd drive which doubles the chance of not loosing anything worth keeping on nr 1. But I'm not here to argue the point of re-imaging or not. The point being, I've restored my PC once in the past 2 years. Only because I upgraded the HD, added a 2nd. So, I started fresh. I keep my system clean and perform housing keeping about 2 times a month. I have 3 kids, all with PC's or access to one, and 3 laptops (2 old ones but portable and the kids like to take them outside). I have 1 primary laptop and desktop the kids are not allowed access to. All these except the primary PC are all wireless. Even my sons Xbox 360 and PS2 share a WGA54G adapter for gaming. Maybe you see my point when I rather keep the system as safe as I can without the worry of having to do a restore. I run ZA internet suite. It does everything I want and keeps my kids out of trouble. And that's what software is for. Non tech types, the majority of users out there, want to sit down, go on line and feel safe too. They don't want to be bothered with pop ups, cookies, 1 month of surfing and 1gb of "trash" on the hard drive. I or they can have 20 routers all lined up in a pretty row and it's not going to protect my system from some ahole sending spam to my kids email and them or my 9 year old when he opens some email on yahoo or gmail then has to hunt me down to fix the damage he and the email has done. So, you feel safe without, I feel safe with. It's my money, my time, therefore, you can flash all the certificates you want, my experience and judgement makes me feel like I know what I'm doing and so far, it's paid off.  I'm just not willing to take the chance. I think you can understand that. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
| Because your "average" user will carry off their PC to some PC shop who will charge them some good cash to clean it up. Recommend a bunch of upgrades when all they needed in the first place is some good software to stop this from happening. I think that's what this topic was about. | |
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nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by wriley :Thats why I said I dont need a firewall, becuase a computer that is updated and taken care of properly will not just have some random person, site or virus take control of their computer. The other thing I said was that is takes less time to re-image a system then it does to properly configure most software firewalls. A software firewall is great for people with little knowledge but in most cases is a false sence of security because of of those tests are howing outbound trafic. They all show windows firewall failing at stoping outbound traffic. But if you have outbound traffic then you, your virus protection and all other methods have failed. If you allowed that program to be downloaded and installed then your data has already been put at risk and most likely you have already given that software permision to pass your firewall. Those tests this artical shows are not very relivent to computer security Spoken like a true n00b.
Outbound traffic doesn't necessarily mean you've been "hacked". You should have absolute control over what does, and doesn't have access to the Internet. There are many many softwares that can be installed which don't need Internet access but pass on information that doesn't need to be passed on. For instance, did you know that nearly all printer software "phones home"? Why on earth would your printer software need to do that? Even when printing from a website the information is downloaded to your computer or cached so that you can print the information. You're obviously not very well educated when it comes to outbound traffic. So please, for the sake of n00bs everywhere, stop spewing on about things you obviously know nothing about.
So far you have yet to serve up any legitimate reasons one shouldn't run a software firewall. We've given you several reasons why you should. If you don't want to, then don't. But please stop misinforming others. You are not better off without a software firewall and you are absolutely securing your computer by running one. Of course, nothing is 100% when it comes to computers, so if someone were to say "OMFG you're so perfectly secure!" that would be incorrect.
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by nekkidtruth :For instance, did you know that nearly all printer software "phones home"? Why on earth would your printer software need to do that? And I would like to know how this is a security threat? We aren't talking about legitimate software phoning whoever it needs to. We are talking about malicious software, which should have been stopped before it was installed. (With a firewall such as XP Firewall or AV if it got past that.) No outbound software protection is going to do that.
Please come up with a better example, so far your's isn't holding water. | |
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Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by nekkidtruth : You're not protected. I feel so relieved that you can sit at your pc and tell me that mine is not protected. Get real. Use the damn outbound firewall if it makes you feel more secure. I haven't needed one for many years; Never been infected. | |
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nekkidtruth
You fail at life.
Premium
join:2002-05-20
London, ON
| Re: What do you need extra for? said by Heterman :said by nekkidtruth : You're not protected. I feel so relieved that you can sit at your pc and tell me that mine is not protected. Get real. Use the damn outbound firewall if it makes you feel more secure. I haven't needed one for many years; Never been infected. That you know of. Because hey, it's fine. It's your loss, not mine.
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aurgathor
join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA | Tiny here Tiny firewall on PC (mostly for outbound control), plus a NAT router. | |
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Doci
Toothless Fairy
join:2003-02-01 | No software will compensate for the idiot factor I run Competent User v0.999.999 on Slackware 10.2
Hasn't failed me once.
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KeepOnRockin
Music Lover Forever
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Beaverton, OR
·Comcast
| Re: No software will compensate for the idiot factor said by Doci :I run Competent User v0.999.999 on Slackware 10.2Hasn't failed me once. I guess that means most non DSLR members are running Incompetent User v0.999.999 on Windows XP
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raw
War Eagle
Premium
join:2001-01-17
Pasadena, MD
clubs: | Re: No software will compensate for the idiot factor No, they're running Incompetent user v0.999.999 SP2 Community Preview 3 | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| Re: Fedora Core i agree. cut down on all the software firewalls and run a pysical router comign in. Now al the pcs are protected and you dont need to run the mutiples of extra resources for the firewall. remember if the virus can send outbound traffic it can infect other machines and worse yet it can download the real virus or new programing as needed. example zombies. Also if you run as a limite duser not as admin the programs cannot install itself as well. and as i have seen personally no av or spyware program is 100% effect. as soon as yuou assume you are fully protected then the hacker has the first vulnerability. the user, never assume you are safe. Reasoneable sure, but completely , no. | |
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rlocone
Honor Our Heros, Our Armed Forces
Premium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN
| Hey too go! That is definitely the way to go! From my personal experience I've used, "IPCop, Smoothwall & Edian" Edian happens to be my favorite of the three. I build boxes and sell & install them to people. I only charge for installling and parts. Not the software. I'm making homes and small businesses safer. I try to educate people about internet and it's dangers. Yes, it's a another box, but that is the point it's the box doing all of the work not your own personal desktop which you need for other things.
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Come to the "Home of rlocone" »www.rlocone.com | |
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Combat Chuck
Too Many Cannibals
Premium
join:2001-11-29
Erie, PA | m0n0wall on a P133 for me.
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Hail Xenu! | |
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iSEPIC
join:2001-04-17
Las Vegas, NV
| Zone Alarm Pro I ran every one of the tests in the study on Zone Alarm Pro, and each and every one of them were stopped by zone (it popped up asking me, and of course I denied it like I would unless I knew I was installing something). I guess they fixed all of the problem areas already? I'm running version 6.1.744.000 | |
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Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Zone Alarm Pro I still like Zone alarm but im really liking Outpost firewall more more..
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»www.auralmoon.com/html/ Stimulating ears for 6 years | |
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Eric Martin
join:2005-06-19
66308 | Sygate is free and trumps all of them. Easy to use and auto updates. Catches all new kinds of attacks.
Really excellent. | |
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spanishbob
join:2004-11-30
spain | Blackice you can turn off the outbound protection, very versatile firewall and great for on the road. If you are at home just use a NAT/SPI router and laugh. | |
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Godfatha
@mchsi.com | Re: Blackice Disappointed no one mentioned or tested Tiny Desktop Pro.
Been using it for years, and (IMHO) it makes these other ones look silly. | |
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UncleScrooge7
join:2003-08-24
Norcross, GA |  Tiny Personal Firewall
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join:2003-02-13
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clubs:
1 edit | XP firewall XP SP2 built in firewall, Linksys router, McAfee Virus scan with latest updates and Firefox browser for me. | |
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gnubird
@comcast.net | netfilter iptables/netfilter - with the hashlimit match module
loaded it can become it's own self-defending IDS too.
Now that's good stuff . | |
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Stucky
@teksavvy.com
| M0N0WALL for me M0N0WALL on a Wrap platform. No Noise, compact.
WallWatcher syslog software. Here's a snapshot.
Kerio on desktop. For the stuff that slips thru.
ACTIVITY SUMMARY TODAY
Wan IP
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Events received from Router 13,433
logged 13,433
not logged (user filters) 0
not yet processed 0
processed but not yet in Log file 0
Records in Events List 500
Records in today's log file 13,591
Inbound events 10,447
in last hour 609
Outbound events 2,945
in last hour 2
Events blocked by Router 13,351
Alerts issued 158
Messages 42
Max queue; avg & max processing times 47 / 0.03 / 0.12
Current time 2006/03/28 19:58:50
Router: Last msg received at 2006/03/28 19:58:40
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