 
gomer1701ems
join:2001-08-23
Minneapolis, MN | Tri-cities? Tri-cities?
1. Minneapolis
2. St. Paul
3. ??? | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Tri-cities? Fixed. | |
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gomer1701ems
join:2001-08-23
Minneapolis, MN
| Re: Tri-cities? Oh, no problem. It's just that I've lived here all my life, and didn't know we had a "third" city! 
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"Don't argue with stupid people; they will beat you with experience." | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Tri-cities? I grew up in a part of NY called the "triple cities", so it was just a brain fart.  | |
| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Technically, right now, it's NOT the twin cities.. it's the St. Paul system that also covers some metro area. Minneapolis is served by Time Warner Cable, until later this year.
They have changed, internally, the system name to the Twin Cities System, but to the market place, this is still just the St. Paul system.
Voip is rolling out as of tomorrow here. It was initially going to be to the Sprint served areas only (maple grove, rogers, hamel, hanover, corcoran, and parts of Brooklyn Park) becuase they are not served by digital phone right now, but it's been launched to the entire served metro area.
There are already 200 orders in the system that are due by Saturday of this week.
Tell me it's not taking off like wild fire.
Sure it has a higher price tag, but you know what? You are getting a better service. You are getting a QoS that Vonage, Call Vantage and Sun Rocket can't give you. Those 3rd party voips are only as reliable as the ISP that it's on. It also gains reliability from their own infrustructure as well. But, 3rd party VoIP can't be compared to MSO offered voip AT-ALL! To do so IS silly.
Sorry to say guys, but the BWM-Hyundai comparison is very much valid here.
Look at this...
3rd party:
- Self install: not a good option for most people. Many want it tied into their home wires. Many don't know how to mess with the NID outside to remove themself from Ma Bell first.
- Service issues: You call up your Voip provider. "It's your ISP. Call the ISP, "we don't support that, call your Voip provider." The customer "I don't care, I just want it fixed." Unfortuantely, in this case, they just want their phone to work and not care who is responsible. However, in this case, YOU DO take the responsibility. It's no different than computers when they went clone. When somehting happened, was it the make of the computer? the new card that you put in it? or was it Windows causing the problem? Where do you go? There is no compare here.
- Call clarity: sure. Good service most of the time, but not always. I have vonage. Workds good most the time, sometimes the clarity sucks. (Hint: I don't use the TAD, I do call forwarding to my land line for my vonage calls. I have the out of area numbers to bring long distance callers in. Their calls simply get forwarded to land line and never touch my broadband connection yet the calls STILL sound crappy sometimes and with echos. Explain that?)
- Runs on the public internet with NO quality control.
- No batter back up service included. Optional by customer.
Cable MSO Voip:
- Professional install. Cable does all the work
- QOS: Priority for call traffic. Entire call is managed by the network.
- Monitored and serviced: MSO monitors the eMTA and performs in home service calls. Trouble calls are complted in 24 hours of time of call no different than the regular phone.
- Battery Backup: included with the eMTA.
- Call Quality: no different that digital phone.
So tell me, why should cable lower their price to match an inferior product? Why should the BMW be sold for the same price of a Hyundai? To ignore these facts, a blinded fool makes you. For $15.00 more, I am going with quality and superiority, not gimicy and cheap. Telephone is still a life line service and I want it to work when I need it to. I don't want to play with using the cell phone if my land line goes out, it's WHY I have a land line in the first place. Cell phones are expensive and the quality of them are crappier than 3rd part voip.
3rd party voip is still a techies toy and a service for the few that want to take a risk, make a change, or have no other options available to them. 3rd party voip will eventually die. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
2 edits | Re: Tri-cities? Fiberguy.. what you failed to point out, it might be "priority" on Comcast's network, but at some point, and trust me, it's a lot of points, they have to hand off to a IXC or other telco to get it through the other people who don't have VoIP, therefore, they no longer go to the head of the line. And as far as QoS, Comcast is a BIG monster therefore should provide nothing less.
VoIP is overrated. I just dumped SR and going back to SBC. WHY? Your battery backup isn't going to do you much good after a few hours of no A/C.. While cell users and VoIP users will see service drop like a rock after a few hours, my 34.00 a month POTS line will be working just fine, thank you very much.
As I work for a LARGE IXC who has both wireless and wireline, I remember seeing the MAJORITY of cell sites die after a few hours (except for the golden sites) due to the few hundred sites we have in this area, not all of them had generators. This was back during the big blackout about 2/3 years ago.
As far as the 40.00 for VoIP compared to POTS costs, it's WAY too much and after having it for a year, it's not a service I want to depend on. My family is worth more then the 15.00 I was saving each month by having SR. Till the FCC regulates or takes control and labels VoIP for what it really is or wants to be, a telephone service, in every word, people don't understand that VoIP providers can do what they want and when they want without having to answer to anyone or pay fines like a regular telco would have to (i.e., do upgrades on a friday afternoon knocking down 100% of the network). VoIP just isn't for everyone and for those thinking they are getting something for nothing will realize real fast that what they got is a fad gone wild full of bugs but is getting better but slower then they are growing. People see it as a way to stick it to the "Bells" but they find out over time that it's they who got stuck. One outage in the middle of the day might be ok, but 2 or more a year is unacceptable. Granted POTS has been around for years and people say VoIP is new. It's been around since the late 80's/early 90's. I use to use it in California back in 93 using my PC, microphone and headset. Sounded like crap but it worked and was free.
You post a good case but I'm here to tell you.. From a user and someone who has had to work with it's shortcomings. When that CISCO 12000 series router hick ups on a Friday afternoon, the one that's carrying cables customers tfc, and it has to be powered down and rebooted, a few thousand customers are not going to have service till the problem is fixed. And your right, if CC can fix the problem in 24hrs, it only takes me a few seconds to reboot the router, and maybe 45minutes for everyone to figure out what went wrong or the system is restored. It happens, has happened and will continue to happen. Short of a tornado, I've never had these kinds of issues with POTS. That's another reason I'm going back. CC, WOW, they are both charging for what you can have POTS for. Long distance? Who here doesn't have a cell phone w/Free long distance? My 1 or 2 calls a month on LD wasn't enough to keep me on the wagon. You will see these issues with just about ALL VoIP providers and CC will be no different. Rant off. 
- Call clarity: sure. Good service most of the time, but not always. I have vonage. Works good most the time, sometimes the clarity sucks. (Hint: I don't use the TAD, I do call forwarding to my land line for my vonage calls. I have the out of area numbers to bring long distance callers in. Their calls simply get forwarded to land line and never touch my broadband connection yet the calls STILL sound crappy sometimes and with echos. Explain that?) Ok, It's because your call is still traveling through a Network controller, to a network gateway, then back out to a ILEC or IXC to your lec. It's simple. Don't try to tell these people it doesn't travel without SIP because it does. It has to go through route lists, route tables and route plans, SS7, the works, all controlled by some Lucent box or Sycamore switch in some providers network center or telco CO. I wouldn't would be so quick to write off your quality problems to not being caused by your VoIP or the IP path. I was amazed by the handing off, path and process that makes this all work till I just completed a class on a Plexus 9000 »www.tmtelcomm.com/Products/telic···A900.htm . | |
| | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Tri-cities? tc1usg,
The ONLY part of the VOIP call I am talking about is the part that actually travels as a call as data. There is nothing traveling over any telephone call that any one carrier can give a QoS. Again, I am ONLY talking about the portion of the call that is actual data packets. Comcast, and I only speak of Comcast, can control the quality of that data packet. 3rd party can't control any of the last mile packets from the customer's home.
Further, you and I agree largely on VoIP in general. I do not care for it, want it, and I think it's a toy! I think everyone is trying to shove everything through the internet which is bad bad bad. I have Comcast digital Phone, classic switched. It's network powered and stayed up for 2 days when we had storms last year. I do NOT beleive that a $15 savings is worth the safety of my family, home, and health. Others do. If you read my other posts, I have been saying the same thing as you all along.
HOWEVER, my post was LARGELY comparing the two flavors of VoIP on those merrits alone. If I HAD to choose between Vonage and Comcast Digital Voice, I would take Comcast over Vonage anyday. In our system, Comcast DTS is going to go away and everyone will have to take CDV or drop service all together. I will be heading back to Qwest when this happens, even as much as I HATE Qwest, I will NOT depend on ANY VoIP unless I HAVE to.
Also, my point on how my vonage does work and how the quality is still not good EVEN when it doesn't hit my broadband was to further prove my point. People will blame the poor call quality on the last mile broadband connection. My point is that it's not just the local broadband carrier that is the cause for poor voip quality. The fact that Vonage DOES carry calls from out of areas over the public internet STILL comes into play. People continually look at their local broadband provider as the cause of poor phone call quality. My point was simply that taking out the local last mile broadband, and VoIP calls are still not up to par to that of a traditional phone service. I AM, in fact, blaming the phone quality on the VoIP carrier ALONE... nothing more. That's my whole point. VoIP carriers can't control the quality of their calls. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI | Re: Tri-cities? That's true. People also forget that the eqp they are using, modem, router and even the punchdown block inside the house, can cause as much a headache as the ISP.  | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| said by fiberguy  :Sure it has a higher price tag, but you know what? You are getting a better service. You are getting a QoS that Vonage, Call Vantage and Sun Rocket can't give you. Those 3rd party voips are only as reliable as the ISP that it's on. It also gains reliability from their own infrustructure as well. But, 3rd party VoIP can't be compared to MSO offered voip AT-ALL! To do so IS silly. Sorry to say guys, but the BWM-Hyundai comparison is very much valid here. That is totally false. We have done extensive testing with our VoIP service with Comcast and Time Warner Cable customers that have their digital phone service and let me tell you, their is absolutely no quality improvement in the MSOs offering.
In addition, if they are offering QoS as they claim, then they are violating Net Neutrality and the FCC may have something to say about that. Hindering communications of competitors has already been addressed by the FCC in the Vonage case.
Regardless, of net neutrality, there is absolutely no difference in quality on the current systems and the battery backup can easily be solved with a battery backup for the end users cable modem/router and ATA. And when you compare $20 unlimited to $40+ unlimited there is no question who is the winner for the consumer.
The big problem is the cable MSOs have a direct window into the home of their customers through their TV and through their monthly bill and that gives them a significant marketing advantage over competing VoIP providers. And they will continue to do so as long as they are allowed to block ads for competing services on their network.
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SomeDudeSomeWhere
@comcast.net | Re: Tri-cities? What makes you think they are not doing QoS or traffic shaping? | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Tri-cities? Because we have done extensive testing with our VoIP service on their network. We have done extensive comparison testing as well.
In all cases their is no evidence of any QoS. In fact, in reports of jitter, etc... we came out slightly ahead of the cable MSOs.
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| | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Tri-cities? said by TelecomJunky :Because we have done extensive testing with our VoIP service on their network. We have done extensive comparison testing as well. In all cases their is no evidence of any QoS. In fact, in reports of jitter, etc... we came out slightly ahead of the cable MSOs. Pure B.S. and corporate shilling at it's best. | |
| | | | | | | | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Tri-cities? said by fiberguy : Pure B.S. and corporate shilling at it's best. Labelled by an expert at it. Do you really have the Comcast logo tattooed on your ass?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Ahh yes.. it's the Vonage guy, or who ever you work for.
No, nothing I said was "totally false" and to think that my statement was "totally false" is "totally false"...
You can test your service all you want. Proof is in the puddin' bud.
I spend about 5 hours a day on the phone with customers on both CDV and TimeWarner phone. BOTH of those customers calls are 100% better than those people I have spoke to using Vonage, or Call Vantage. However, I will say that Call Vantage is far superior, in my opinion to the ear, than Vonage.
I also HAVE vonage. I have made calls using Vonage over my two different broadband lines and I, having put my hands on MANY CVD installs, can tell you that Vonage is still far less superior. (For the record, my two connections are crystal clean - and *WE* have done 'extensive testing' as well.)
You say they are violating Net Neutrality? WHAT net neutrality as far as FCC in concerned. Please show me the FCC NN rules. The cable company is very much allowed to ensure their products work. Simple question, have you read the recent supreme court ruling on cable companies...? .. at all?
Some how, you are able to turn this into a position of who has better marketability. That's just absurd and you know it! Comcast has to advertise to their own customers as much as the rest. In fact, here, CDV is just launching and I STILL see more of those annoying Vonage comercials than I do the annoying Comcast CDV comercials. If I see that stupid kid throw the bat through the window (as if it were an accident - get better actors ) again, I will throw the tv through the window.
Your post is full of claims that are just silly and sound like they are coming straigh from the mouth of the corporate big wig excuse makers at the VoIP company you work for.
I am not sticking up for any corporation period. I am simply refuting the claims you are making that are plain silly.
You claim that the price is the only thing that matters.. to who? Your target audience is who. YOUR target audience, by default, is the thrifty shopper/spender. You guys are targeting those that want a cheap phone company. NOT EVERYONE wants CHEAP phone service.. there are MANY people that want REALIABLE phone service. NEITHER Vonage, 3rd part voip, or even MSO managed Voip, in my opinion and based on statistics in general, is realiable phone service. | |
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AndyWarhol
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Broken Arrow, OK
clubs:
1 edit | That is an utterly ridiculous price. I pay $4.95 per month with Cox VOIP and it works great, and has the same "battery backup" they are referring to....
They are asinine.
Edit: In fact, I got 2 batteries in mine. Li-ion polymer. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors Question: Will Comcast increase their profits by deliberately screwing up (adding latency, or even smarter, adding jitter) to the VoIP traffic of all the competitors in that area?
Answer: Yes
Thus : If you have VoIP services from a competitor in that area, prepare to see it go to hell. Comcast makes more money by forcing you to use their service (a LOT more in most cases), thus some middle manager with access to the sandvine, or p-cube (cisco) box will QOS your VoIP packets from (vonage, sunrocket, whomever) to hell, while prioritizing their own traffic.
Solution: Federal Regulators checking comcast with highly skilled engineers from Vonage/Competitors acting as advisers, going into Comcasts offices/POPS/etc, to see if such equipment exists. Fully armed jack booted thugs, instead of working for the **AA's, can be transferred to attack Comcast in fishing expeditions. If the feds can get away with fishing expeditions against citizens, then the citizens can get away with fishing expeditions against the megacorps (i.e. the 'owners' of the feds). If found, Comcast should be fined billions, and their executives jailed for blatantly lying that they would never do such a thing. It's time for the Feds to make an example of Comcast, to prevent their tricks from becoming 'the standard' for all ISP's.
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
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DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this?
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
| | | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by DaSneaky1D :When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this? You haven't . G_Poobah is just being G_Poobah. There is no facts to back up his comment. Hell even Comcast COO has said they(we) will not block voip. Here there is even a link.
»www.multichannel.com/article/CA5···+News&re
we= I work for Comcast | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by JSRoman :said by DaSneaky1D :When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this? You haven't . G_Poobah is just being G_Poobah. There is no facts to back up his comment. Hell even Comcast COO has said they(we) will not block voip. Here there is even a link. » www.multichannel.com/article/CA5···+News&rewe= I work for Comcast Oh Noez! Watch out! You might get called a Comcast Shill by Poobah! Take back what you said! | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| said by JSRoman :said by DaSneaky1D :When has Comcast degraded other VoIP traffic? Did I miss a post about this? You haven't . G_Poobah is just being G_Poobah. There is no facts to back up his comment. Hell even Comcast COO has said they(we) will not block voip. Here there is even a link. » www.multichannel.com/article/CA5···+News&rewe= I work for Comcast There is a big difference between blocking competitors and degrading them. Comcast can get away with degrading them by claiming they are giving their service a QoS and you won't be able to prove otherwise with out auditing their network.
Blocking = no connectivity
Degrading = jitter, latency filled, connectivity
QoS = Normal, unhindered IP connectivity
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AndyWarhol
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Broken Arrow, OK
clubs: | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors I concur with Tkjunkmail. Everything he posts has some sort of conspiracy theory he concocted. Whether they are based in fact or not. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Paid Shill. I NEVER advocated LENINIST dreams. Lenin was a nutcase, Marx had it right. If you're going to earn your astroturfing paycheck, you better come up with a better answer than that. Remember, George 'Pol Pot' Bush won't stay in power unless he has lots of shills like you to back him up.
Remember, comcast is in this to MAKE MONEY. If comcast CAN make more money by screwing up competitors VoIP products, then comcast has a LEGAL OBLIGATION to the shareholders to do so. So by not messing up the VoIP, by not trying to shoot down net neutrality, by not hiring astroturfers, comcast is opening themselves up to lawsuits by the shareholders.
Thus, Comcast as a for profit corporation, has no choice but to screw everyone! It's capitalism, which is what you constantly advocate!
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by G_Poobah :Paid Shill. I NEVER advocated LENINIST dreams. Lenin was a nutcase, Marx had it right. If you're going to earn your astroturfing paycheck, you better come up with a better answer than that. Remember, George 'Pol Pot' Bush won't stay in power unless he has lots of shills like you to back him up. Remember, comcast is in this to MAKE MONEY. If comcast CAN make more money by screwing up competitors VoIP products, then comcast has a LEGAL OBLIGATION to the shareholders to do so. So by not messing up the VoIP, by not trying to shoot down net neutrality, by not hiring astroturfers, comcast is opening themselves up to lawsuits by the shareholders. Thus, Comcast as a for profit corporation, has no choice but to screw everyone! It's capitalism, which is what you constantly advocate! Yep, knew it. "Paid Shill". Go f'in figure. Poobah, I think you should take your sig and apply this to yourself. | |
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AndyWarhol
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Broken Arrow, OK
clubs:
2 edits | Hey Poobah. Reality check. He can't "stay in power" anyway. It's his second and final term. How about you actually read the amendments?
Edit: Oh, and yes, I do constantly advocate capitalism. But within moral bounds. Competition is key. If you haven't noticed that is all I advocate, then you (like many radical left wingers) are only reading what you want to read and citing only the things that fit your design. Go read my posts again, but after you read the amendments, that is far more important. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by AndyWarhol :Hey Poobah. Reality check. He can't "stay in power" anyway. It's his second and final term. How about you read the amendments? I think he ate paint chips as a child. | |
| | | | | mrks
join:2005-07-12
Lowell, MA | what the f. comcast can be sued by their own shareholders for not breaking the law and screwing the compition. Where can I get your refer? | |
| | | | | mrks
join:2005-07-12
Lowell, MA
| not to mention comcast makes money either way you go. You pay for there internet with voice or pay for there internet and go to a third party VOIP. Ever hear of a win/win. They can't lose. And don't getting me defending them too much because they are a megacorp. Your just a total moron. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors Hmm, I 'think' I know which corporate shill you are, but, can't prove it.. So I'll just point out that you REALLY should login into your fake accounts (i.e. you haven't used this account in months and months), more often, just to maintain appearances. You need to generate what's called 'backfill' for your fake identity. Sheesh, didn't you read the handbook at ALL?
The paid astroturfer handbook clearly specifies that you should alternate accounts at least once per week. People don't believe you when you 'magically pop out of the woodwork' with an account that's been inactive for 9 months, only to make a couple of inane comments, then disappear. Your not going to earn your paychecks with sloppy work like this.
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
| | | | | | | mrks
join:2005-07-12
Lowell, MA | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors You got me I work there and I can tell a hundred crooked things they do. Degrding 3rd party voip is not one them. To them voip's are like using a different email provider. THEY DON"T CARE! So how do I get to your level. Login in everday and post BS. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by mrks :To them voip's are like using a different email provider. THEY DON"T CARE! So how do I get to your level. Login in everday and post BS. If they don't care then why make a statement to say they offer QoS and battery backup? They care.
All I know is, consumers would be stupid too pick a $40+ voip package from bell vs a $40 unlimited package from bell, which offers a truly reliable 100 yr+ proven network for the same price.
The only reason to switch to voip is savings and mobility. The cable MSOs VoIPs services offer neither. Only the independent competing VoIP services do.
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AndyWarhol
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Broken Arrow, OK
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors Umm. Read my first post on this page. And another farther down. Cox offers VOIP for $4.95 a month for unlimited use. That's pretty cheap in my book. A hell of a lot cheaper than the $50 that Valor Telecom charges. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by sivran :did I mention my Comcast internet service has been, well, pretty good lately? Oooh, and rumors flying of another round of upgrades! It's such a sweet deal! /tweakthepoobah Mine was out for nearly 24 hours last Thursday. When I called the blamed a fiber cut on a Budweiser Truck. When I said I though all their lines were under ground they said not all of them.
So apparently the big expensive fiber ring that fed the entire city is left out exposed for trucks to run into. Either that or they just thought they could get away blaming some evil alcohol company for their mistakes. But they were kind enough to credit my bill a whopping $3.
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AndyWarhol
Premium
join:2004-03-14
Broken Arrow, OK
clubs:
3 edits | Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors said by TelecomJunky :So apparently the big expensive fiber ring that fed the entire city is left out exposed for trucks to run into. Either that or they just thought they could get away blaming some evil alcohol company for their mistakes. But they were kind enough to credit my bill a whopping $3. Haha. That gave me a pretty good laugh. $3 is pretty insignificant. LOL. | |
| | | | | | salahx
join:2001-12-03
Saint Louis, MO
| Comcast doesn't need to. The service Comcast is selling uses the same technology as Vonage as friends, but at a completely different service level.
Standard VOIP uses the Internet to send it packets to/from your VOIP provider There are no QOS guarantees on the Internet. Comcast's service actually uses a private network, it does not travel over the public Internet; thus Comcast can provide carrier-grade service.
Vonage and most other VOIP provers are "best effort" providers and cannot offer carrier-grade service like your regular phone company can. Since Comcast controls their VOIP from end-to-end; they can provider lifeline service with the same regular quality as a ILEC/CLEC.
The service Comcast is proving is suitable for an only phone line. The best-effort providers are not. | |
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See 47 replies to this post | |
| amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
| quote:
Fully armed jack booted thugs
that's funny.
quote:
If the feds can get away with fishing expeditions against citizens, then the citizens can get away with fishing expeditions against the megacorps
good luck to ya.
..and billions? I doubt it. I mean, sure, there should be some 'neutrality' to their network, but fining them BILLIONS won't help any... would you rather they were bankrupted and nobody had any access to anything? I know that's not what you mean, but surely there are better ways.
back to topic... those prices are just silly. who wouldn't rather go for another service at those prices? battery backup is nice, but one could also get themselves a cheapo UPS just for their modem/router/phone and probably do just fine for WAY less money.
all the voip confrontation and smack talk makes me laugh. I still like net2phone. run it on a laptop (battery powered..) and have a UPS on the modem/router, there ya go. granted, nobody can 'call' me back, but I really don't care. What I really want to know, is why haven't regular POTS services prices dropped more? A landline should be so much cheaper than it is, esp for in-state/local calling, when in fact the opposite seems true... I still refer people to stick with POTS for reliability/ease of use etc. but so much VOIP is really a lot cheaper.
Don't know what Cox's phone plan is, but I thought I saw cheaper prices than $40 bundled!
Don't care if cable has a nice service for voice, one should still be able to leverage that same level of service for whatever applications they wish to use through said service. ..Hence the "debate" over "neutrality" all over the place.
If everyone took a step back from their own ignorance to reality, and made some real decisions based on what is truly best for everyone, none of this hogwash would be happening. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors Yes there is. Lets create a monopoly for the infrastructure like we did with power, water, gas etc. IP itself is a utility, lets have one regulated company that has profits capped at 11% controlling it. Regulate them to commit $X to r&d and deployment.
Then let Bell, Cable MSOs, and the rest of us compete equally with the same exact access prices and network neutrality to the infrastructure and lets see who consumers choose.
As long as cable and bells are able to control the infrastructures we paid for with taxes and guaranteed profits nothing will change and consumers will lose.
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BoyNamedSue
@208.17.x.x
| Ummm..I hate to burst your anti-corporate hate bubble...But I live in NewCastle Delawhere and Comcast CDV has been available for months..I have Vonage and it works fine.
Must be an oversight, huh?  | |
| | | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA
| Re: Comcast degrading VoIP for competitors My grandmother, aunt, uncle and a couple other family memebers have vonage over comcast for at least 6months, probably a year. My grandma is 83 and doesn't complain (and believe me she would if there was!) I did it to save her money so she wouldn't need anything but a basic prepaid cell for emergencies, saved about $360 a year maybe more. My other grandmother is in a hole and her cell doesn't work to well in her house (only from where I put an external antenna on a beam with some metal as a ground plane). She uses Comcast ($70 for the 1st year for HSI and Voice with a cable plan) total about $105? They will come out within 1-2 days to fix just like verizon, even on the weekend. Needed the reliability because of the Cellular issue. Otherwise she would be with vonage also! After her year is up i will proably switch her anyway. So Verizon to Comcast (now that she is used to a couple outages and then Vonage which is just as reliable as far as I can tell but for $30 for the 1st year it was a good transition). Screw these cable operators! She would be with Verizon DSL if she could get it but unfortunately her street is fed with a T1. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
2 edits | said by BoyNamedSue :Ummm..I hate to burst your anti-corporate hate bubble...But I live in NewCastle Delawhere and Comcast CDV has been available for months..I have Vonage and it works fine. Must be an oversight, huh? But wait, I thought Vonage wouldn't work fine on Comcasts network because non-Comcast VoIP providers don't have the great QoS that Comcast has to offer... Now you are telling me your $20 a month unlimited service works well...
Hmm, I wonder then why anyone would pay twice as much for the same quality voip phone service with less features.
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | why so expensive ? I dont understand why comcast is selling it so pricey. If they dropped it down to $35 a month, they would probably have every one on comcast. 50$ is way to much
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THXULTRA
@12.158.x.x | Its Comcraptic I would never switch to thier phone service for that much. I can't believe people would pay so much when you can get a regular phone line from at&t for that and it will not go out everytime thier is a storm. | |
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Tweak
Premium
join:2002-06-08
Oklahoma City, OK
1 edit | Re: Its Comcraptic You can not get the full phone package with A.T.T with that price. Maybe on a special offer but the price will always go up with Ma bell | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Its Comcraptic AT&T/SBC has had a $50 unlimited package with all features for several years.
To get that price you would have bundle expensive cable with your digital phone and Internet.
On the other hand, I could get the basic DishNet with locals package for $30 and no equipment charges. Stand-alone dsl or cable for around $30-50, and competing voip for $20 and pay less than $100 for all my services...
But why would I do that when I can pay cable $200 a month for their inferior picture quality, identical voip quality, and less features?
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL
| $$$$$$$ I see no benefit in going with Comcast Digital Voice. They have been marketing the hell out of it lately but I dont think it is going to do any good. People are all about saving a few $$$ and becoming more technology minded, so I dont think that Comcast digital voice will last long. Not with some VOIP providers pushing unlimited calls for $20 and I am sure they cant compete with other international rates.
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votum76
join:2002-01-29
Matawan, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| other voip services most of these posts relating to comcast deprioriting voip calls from other providers are pure speculation, for some real facts I have comcast in NJ I use packet8 $20 as my only phone line, well I have a cell but no other landlines,
When I didn't have any traffic on the network my connection was perfect the only issue's I've ever had was while downloading uploading alot of traffic from my computer and I was able to fix that issue with the Hawking HBB1 device which will prioritize your outgoing voip,games,ssh etc ( time-sensitive apps ) since then 0 problems with the phone service. It seems most issues with other providers are due to the lack of priority on packets leaving your cable modem, which tends to have long queues to handle the difference between the link speed of your ethernet card and the small upload cap of your cable modem. sure the device costs $50 but I save $30 a month over comcast's overpriced phone service. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
1 edit | Re: other voip services So let me get this straight... another comcast customer who claims his competing voip quality is good... not sub par as the comcast supporters on here would lead you to believe with their one network propaganda.
As I said previously, I work for a company that offers consumer level VoIP. We did extensive testing with customers of Comcast and Time Warner VoIP and no discernible difference existed.
Which leaves price, features, and customer service and we know how the cable companies perform in those categories.
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Hmmmmm, I wonder..... If you use someone like Vonage on a Comcast line, does that go against your invisible cap? After all, it is packets traveling on the network.
And another serious question, has anyone done a study to see how much traffic VOIP actually puts out on the network? | |
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FiL
Premium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
| wowy said by JSRoman:
"Hell even Comcast COO has said they(we) will not block voip."
lmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao! Made my day! good laugh. Just the thought of someone ACTUALLY quoted an exec. in the vain of TRUTH! Man, get back to reality, and quick!
How can a company so blatantly bash another companys performance when thier own is trash? Because you fools keep buying into it. Aside from the contract, those "take it up the ass days" are gone along with Comcast. But theres neighborhoods that get only Comcast, and those are the people I feel most sorry for. | |
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Mous-Anon
@208.17.x.x | Re: wowy So start your own ISp to help them. What would you charge?
Like I said..I have my proof to back it up. I have Vonage in a CDV area and it works great, so kinda defeats the whole Comcast is degrading other Voip providers traffic. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: wowy said by Mous-Anon :
So start your own ISp to help them. What would you charge?
Start his own ISP? LOL. So where will he get a venture capital company to give him the money to build his own broadband fiber network?
Oh right, he can't, because VCs won't give money in this industry because the cable and phone companies will sue you, hinder deployment, and insert temporary predatory pricing to drive you out.
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Mustbeyou
@208.17.x.x | Re: wowy Funny, back then there was less people then now. And im sure alot of people got their full speed. Must of been a PC hardware/tweak issue. If you only knew what you missed...ahhhh well. | |
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odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL | In 3 years comcast will just buy vonage | |
| | JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Re: In 3 years said by odreian615 :comcast will just buy vonage Actually in 3 years Vonage will be out of business. | |
| mlord107
join:2006-03-29
Warren, MI
| Comcast doesn't care Comcast isn't advertising that they are the best value voip. They understand that customers put trust in "utility" companies. I am a comcast voip installer. The first thing everyone asks me is, "are many people switching?" All I have to say, is "yup, it's nice to know what your bill will be each month." or "it's nice to have one less bill to pay." and they're smiling. Most of my customers can barely check their e-mail. They are afraid of or uninformed of vonage. You have to look at the GIGANTIC customer base that comcast has and if even 20% of those customers were to sign up in the next couple years, picture vonage being a fly on the wall in comparison. | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Comcast doesn't care When u take time to invest millions and do the job right i pays off. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Comcast doesn't care said by brooklynman4 :When u take time to invest millions and do the job right i pays off. You mean the millions your monopoly provided you, the millions competing VoIP providers don't have access to, the millions competing providers can't get in investment dollars because of cable MSOs and Bell companies' anti-competitive practices?
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UmmmNo
@208.17.x.x | Re: Comcast doesn't care No, the millions of dollars they generate from revenue.
Comcast aren't like the bells who got reimbursed to create their network. | |
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ghdfhdfhdh
@speakeasy.n | Comcast a BMW? Comcast is comparing themselves to a BMW?!?!?!
OMFG Comcast is a POS not a BMW I want what their smoking! | |
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Warren_O
@comcast.net | Comcast Digital Voice is $39.99 / month I've had it for 4 months now and LOVE it.
$39.99/month with the first month free. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: Comcast Digital Voice is $39.99 / month Ever tried a competing VoIP provider? No one disputes comcast's phone service works. The question is whether the competing providers voip works just as well for half the price and more features.
Vonage and many other VoIP providers offer the first month free. I suggest you get them and try it. No risk and you could save $200-300 a year.
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Yeabut
@208.17.x.x | Re: Comcast Digital Voice is $39.99 / month If he has issues, who is he gonna call? Vonage will just say its the ISP. | |
| | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT
3 edits | .. quote:
Actually in 3 years Vonage will be out of business.
LOL When the telecommuncations act is rewritten, most of them will be gone. Does anyone know how many voIp providers there are?
Mark my words.. when voIp lines become regulated.. it will be mandatory for them to pay the ISP's delivery fee's. This will put most of the small voIP co's out of business. When your cable, DSL or satellite/cellular internet goes out, they will have to be fixed within a timely manner.. the ISP's will be held liable once theyre being paid by the voip providers. In the end, the overall price of voIp will increase.. A LOT.
... and when THIS happens, you will start to see cable co. voIP being sold to households / businesses without having actual internet access.
The other scenario is the FCC and state PUC's dropping the regulations off traditional telephone lines.. and I just dont see that happening. One way or another, each type of telephone service will eventually be on level playing grounds. | |
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TelecomJunky
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Kansas City, MO
| Re: .. Yes they will. And people will finally realize how much they have been over paying for local phone service and why SBC profits $9 billion a year making it one of the top 10 most profitable companies in the world.
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| ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA
·Comcast
 ·Vonage
| $40 to $55 for comcast voip? the comcast marketing folks are either kidding or smoking crack cocaine thinking that people will pay those prices for voip on top of the already inflated prices for cable offerings. there is nothing quite so sobering to grossly over-smug corporate monopolies as C-O-M-P-E-T-I-T-I-O-N. | |
| wahoospa
join:2006-03-23
Charleston, SC | I Hate Comcast The prices (pdf) of course are considerably higher than other VoIP providers ($55 unbundled, $40 bundled with broadband & TV).
B U T I D O N ' T W A N T T V, JUST INTERNET AND MAYBE PHONE SO I AM SCREWED. SO NO COMCAST FOR ME. | |
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Comcast Scoffs at 'Regular' VoIP
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