Cheese Premium Member join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL
1 recommendation |
Cheese
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 6:26 pm
To far behind already?I think we are to far behind to come back anytime soon. It would take many years to recover from this kind of position. | |
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| wvcaver Premium Member join:2005-04-17 Millersburg, OH |
wvcaver
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 6:30 pm
Re: To far behind already?I am going to forward this to the FCC | |
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| | Cheese Premium Member join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL
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Cheese
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 6:31 pm
Re: To far behind already?said by wvcaver:I am going to forward this to the FCC Please do, maybe, JUST MAYBE, it will light a fire under their ass, but I won't hold my breath | |
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| | rawgerzThe hell was that? Premium Member join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA 2 edits
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to wvcaver
The FCC is either stupid, ignorant, or has other interests. Any of which is not a good mix.. Or maybe they're too swamped in other involvements, it would be nice to see a group dedicated to the broadband issue that is closely watched for bribes and IQ of what they actually are ment for Actually, after seeing Their 'report' with the quote 'The U.S. is doing exceptionally well.', It's obvious they're stupid as hell, unless they based this on country's with OUT any infrastructure
But good luck | |
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| | | JLevinworthJames Levinworth Premium Member join:2004-11-21 Muddy Field 1 edit |
Re: To far behind already?said by rawgerz:The FCC is either stupid, ignorant, or has other interests. Any of which is not a good mix.. Or maybe they're too swamped in other involvements, it would be nice to see a group dedicated to the broadband issue that is closely watched for bribes and IQ of what they actually are ment for Actually, after seeing Their 'report' with the quote 'The U.S. is doing exceptionally well.', It's obvious they're stupid as hell, unless they based this on country's with OUT any infrastructure But good luck Seems the FCC is all three, rawgerz. I still remember the information super bahn Gore was touting and promised in the early 90s (anyone else remember that?). My area (NJ) was supposed to part of the initial deployment schedules.. Millions on millions were promised 45Mg fiber by 2000 (est. 85M from the site below). NJ, 100% fiber by 2010. All to be paid for (and was) by higher rates, etc.. through deals with the FCC and government agencies that be. If all that came through as promised, the US was supposed to be the leader in Broadband. I often wondered what happened with that all.. and came across this site doing some research on it recently. I am not affiliated with them, or anything like that.. But found the background interesting enough to pass on, considering I clearly remember many of the milestones they spoke of. (Even so, the site wants you to buy their book, so take that for what it's worth). The statement from the FCC just makes me go, "WTF are you talking about?". Spin it, FCC. Spin it. | |
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to Cheese
I don't think it would be that hard, but it would require steps that share-holders and free-market fans wouldn't like.
That would include government involvement in the infrastructure process, including setting deployment water-marks (and actually enforcing them), correcting the corruption in the USF system and perhaps expanding its function (not just eliminating it), and not kowtowing to telco & cable lobbyists at every turn.
None of that will ever happen, as the political system now serves the will of the largest incumbents, not the public. | |
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| | Cheese Premium Member join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL |
Cheese
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 6:32 pm
Re: To far behind already?said by Karl Bode:I don't think it would be that hard, but it would require steps that share-holders and free-market fans wouldn't like. That would include government involvement in the infrastructure process, including setting deployment water-marks (and actually enforcing them), correcting the corruption in the USF system and perhaps expanding its function (not just eliminating it), and not cow-towing to telco & cable lobbyists at every turn. None of that will ever happen, as the political system now serves the will of the largest incumbents, not the public. Well said. | |
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Re: To far behind already?Also putting a technologist at the head of the FCC instead of an empty-headed think-tank deregulatory drone would be a good move as well. | |
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| | | | kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY |
kamm
Member
2006-Apr-3 8:49 pm
Re: To far behind already?said by Karl Bode:Also putting a technologist at the head of the FCC instead of an empty-headed think-tank deregulatory drone would be a good move as well. I agree with everything you just said but I'm sure you also know that these things never gonna happen - unless we disband this rotten FCC and forget it forever. We need a completely different communication market approach.Sorry, we tried this - during last decades it didn't work out, by now it's completely ridden by corruption. Kill it. | |
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| | | | | packetscan Premium Member join:2004-10-19 Bridgeport, CT |
Re: To far behind already?i'm not sure about total disassemble #5..
But Serious Chances need to be made. I can agree to that. | |
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idjk
Anon
2006-Apr-4 12:17 pm
Re: To far behind already? It is not just the FCC -try to place fiber in the ground and you have all local governments plus the EPA in your pocket- then the are the tree huggers 'who sometime are right' so it is hard to compare USA with third world or not where there are less hoops to jump thru. Also USA got in this early so it is a replacement not new which means you pay for it twice. | |
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| | RayW Premium Member join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT |
to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:None of that will ever happen, as the political system now serves the will of the largest incumbents, not the public. It has for many years, as long as the 'incumbents' keep paying.....And as Clinton found out, foreign countries pay too for special favors. | |
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to Karl Bode
said by Karl Bode:...would include government involvement... Good luck. Our current government could't give a $#*$ about the 'people'. As long as businesses are putting the green where the politician's dog-dishes are, they will obediently play to the corporations' demands. At this point in the game the only ones helping the people are themselves. By mass protests (already seen), billions of letters and petitions (already signed), and violent gatherings (still contained to Paris, but Im sure its on the way). I don't know about you, but I think we need a change of adminstration. One that will not pat itself on the back for a job well done (or not done as the case may be). | |
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| rawgerzThe hell was that? Premium Member join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA 1 edit
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to Cheese
Exactly, I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's too little, too late. Our digital future was sold out a long time ago. When a group of people larger than the special interest groups decides to make an appearance and fight for us, only then will we bounce back but we will never catch up. Money comes first, and people and the country's infrastructure comes 2nd.. or never | |
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| | Dydion join:2001-03-07 Baton Rouge, LA |
Dydion
Member
2006-Apr-3 6:40 pm
Re: To far behind already?That's right. Only when some company has a marvelous patent and stands to make a billion dollars overnight will the US see some real progress...until the CEO decides to retire with a multi-billion dollar package, and all the other top dogs take the money and run...
...then we will be back at the drawing board. The US is screwed, face it. Our politicians and greedy-ass corporations will forever sell us out for their own short term gains. We're a joke to the world and will never recover. | |
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Re: To far behind already?The fcc will post that email in the lunchroom for there amusment. | |
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to Dydion
said by Dydion:...marvelous patent and stands to make a billion dollars overnight... Believe me, if something that miraculous was to be invented tomarrow... consumers wouldnt see it for at least another 3 decades. | |
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Jovi Premium Member join:2000-02-24 Mount Joy, PA |
Jovi
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 6:46 pm
What I'd like to see..I'd like to see how penetration rates are per how many people and then give a percentage. Comparing a country the size of Ohio, to the whole United States isn't fair overall with our landmass.
Plus with cell phones, How many companies have service areas the size Cingular or Verizon do? I don't like the big company monopolies we have here, but you have to take these reports with a grain of salt. | |
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| | kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY 1 edit |
kamm
Member
2006-Apr-3 8:31 pm
Re: What I'd like to see..Ouch: » Re: Martin: outrageous lies, deception of public and fat checksIt's kinda boring to see that you're posting the same old lies over and over again, even within an hour... So let me post the reality again:
it's not the subject we are talking about.
We understand that you have to work for that money you get from the cable company for being one of their astroturfs but unless you can come up with some true statement, take your stupid spin somewhere else, please.
It's well-known [b]how ridiculously the US stats are being compiled: like if there's at least one user with broadband - remember, in the US broadband is from ~256kbit/s unlike other countries - then FCC counts it as full ZIP CODE.Of course, it serves nothing but the interests of the current incumbents, first adn foremost the monopoly-based cable industry.Your stats are fake and deliberately made up to deceive the public.. | |
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| | | oliphantI Have 8 Boobies Premium Member join:2004-11-26 Corona, CA |
oliphant
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 8:58 pm
Re: What I'd like to see..And any stat about "penetration" is irrelevant and is made to deceive the public.
Just because someone doesn't want it, doesn't mean it's not available to them...which is all these statistics describe...Americans not wanting it. | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 9:04 pm
Re: What I'd like to see..said by oliphant:And any stat about "penetration" is irrelevant and is made to deceive the public. You said "penetrate." | |
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Re: What I'd like to see..So did you | |
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| | | | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 11:44 pm
Re: What I'd like to see..hehehe I'm so cool... huhuhuh. | |
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| | | | Combat ChuckToo Many Cannibals Premium Member join:2001-11-29 Verona, PA |
to oliphant
said by oliphant:And any stat about "penetration" is irrelevant and is made to deceive the public. Just because someone doesn't want it, doesn't mean it's not available to them...which is all these statistics describe...Americans not wanting it. Not that any of these stats actually matters anyway other than to fill the blank spaces in magazines or to give the fantabulous four a forum to call everyone astroturfers in place of cogent arguments. That one article a couple months back really gave their lives purpose. | |
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swinn join:2001-02-16 Clarksville, TN |
swinn
Member
2006-Apr-3 6:47 pm
PopulationsDoes this report really mean all that much? The US has 280 million people. The top two in the report don't have the land mass and their populations don't exceed 20 million even when they are combined together.
South Korea should be impressed though - getting 24.9% of 48 million people on broadband even if they don't possess as much land.
Also, how do you exceed 100% in penetration based on your population? Either all your people are on or they aren't. If people from other countries are using your service then it isn't part of your population, and if they have dual citizenship then isn't that part of your population? | |
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packetscan Premium Member join:2004-10-19 Bridgeport, CT
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Stumbled?We've been on the ground..
You mean someone tried to pick us up? | |
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Primis join:2004-03-21 Coldwater, MI |
Primis
Member
2006-Apr-3 6:50 pm
What's so bad?Seriously... what is so bad about US broadband? What *don't* we have that we need and allegedly need so badly, that others have?
I'm really getting tired of all these negative reports on "how far behind" the U.S. is. It's complete and utter B.S. It's Grass Is Greener Syndrome and nothing... NOTHING.... more.
The problem isn't tech or penetration. The only real problem we have is rampant monopolization in some areas. That needs to be addressed, for sure.
However... what CAN'T you or I do that we could if we were in, say, Japan? And no "download tentacle pr0n faster" isn't an answer. Speeds and rates are apples and oranges. | |
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Ill Tell You What
Anon
2006-Apr-3 8:07 pm
Re: What's so bad?"what CAN'T you or I do that we could if we were in, say, Japan?" Download animated pornography at incredible speeds, that's what. Seriously, though, I think that when it's a slow newsday somebody at BBR says, "Well, time to dig up another story on how the U.S. lags the world in broadband." Hell, we're not even #1 in the world in terms of literacy, and nobody seems too worked up about that. What good is 100% broadband penetration going to do you when you have a portion of the population that can't even read? I don't take stuff like this too seriously; the truth is that some people just like to find a way to stir up the feces so they can then sit back and enjoy the smell. | |
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| | ZaberWhen all are gone, there shall be none join:2000-06-08 Cleveland, OH |
Zaber
Member
2006-Apr-4 9:32 am
Re: What's so bad?said by Ill Tell You What :
Hell, we're not even #1 in the world in terms of literacy, and nobody seems too worked up about that. What good is 100% broadband penetration going to do you when you have a portion of the population that can't even read?
I am afraid I have to agree here. The US as a nation have far to many issues to worry about broadband penetration. | |
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dslwanter20 years on this site Premium Member join:2002-12-16 Mineral Ridge, OH ·Armstrong Ubiquiti UniFi AP-LR Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X SFP
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Of courseThe heck with trying to get it to areas that can't get it, that just might cost too much money. Who cares if everyone can get broadband for a fair price or not. Like the companies are going to give a crap about the broadband stats of this country, if their pockets are full, they're happy. | |
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GlaiceBrutal Video Vault Premium Member join:2002-10-01 North Babylon, NY
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Glaice
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 7:15 pm
I blame..CORPORATE GREED | |
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swiftymc join:2004-02-15 Mansfield Center, CT |
ok?Isnt this article a comeplete 180 from the one posted directly before it? lol | |
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| JTRockvilleData Ho Premium Member join:2002-01-28 Rockville, MD
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Re: ok?It is. The two reports were produced by two different groups.
The FCC, who represents the communications industry, thinks we're doing just fine.
The ESI, who's motiviations (funding) aren't really clear (at least not that I could tell), thinks we're not doing just fine. | |
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qdemn7Smurf in My Loop Premium Member join:2003-09-16 Fort Worth, TX |
qdemn7
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 7:38 pm
Ninth in Mobile Phone Penetration?In another measure of technology development, mobile phone penetration, the US has fallen to ninth in the world. 61% of the US population has a mobile phone, according to the International Telecommunications Union (ITU). Several Asian and European countries have rates approaching (and even exceeding) 100%.
And just exactly WHAT does this mean? I mean damn, you can buy a phone in just about every Mom & Pop Corner Store. So you can't get phone service out in the middle of the Arizona Desert or W. Texas where hardly anyone lives?
And how do you have OVER 100% penetration? | |
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TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 8:29 pm
Everything is great here.I don't know what they're talking about. I have access to a 30mbit connection, a 15mbit connection (that I'm using) and multiple cheap DSL providers. Sure, we aren't going to be number 1. Do we have to be? What plus is there to being number 1 when most people are receiving their services fine here in America? America is gigantic compared to the rest of the world. Why don't we compare ourselves with Russia or the whole of Canada? The population on the East and West Coast is mostly served well. Having some guy out in the sticks come on here bitching that American broadband sucks doesn't have any weight behind his argument. Companies need to make a profit, number one and number two cost effective technology is NOT here. If you want these types of services either wait (may be a long wait) or move to one of the populated areas of the country.
-Tzale | |
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noone1 join:2004-06-04 Nashua, NH |
noone1
Member
2006-Apr-3 8:37 pm
Has anyone actualy read the article?In another measure of technology development, mobile phone penetration, the US has fallen to ninth in the world. 61% of the US population has a mobile phone, according to the International Telecommunications Union (ITU). Several Asian and European countries have rates approaching (and even exceeding) 100% So now, because 39% of the population has no need for a cell phone, we are falling behind as asserted by this article? This is ABSURD and asinine. What does my Grandmother need a cell phone for? Hell, if I didn't work in the R&D Telecommunication world, I would not have one either; the curse that they are. The article then quotes Intel CEO (Like he wouldn't want to sell more equipment; he profits from potential hype. And the quote from Senator Max Baucus is precious, like he would not love the chance to put out positive sound bytes. Where did they get their information? What sources did they use? What sources did they ignore? How was the information weighed? Who finances this site? Who advertises on this site? The article makes some very broad and sweeping claims, what backs them up? | |
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Re: Has anyone actualy read the article?good questions noone1, i was asking the same thing | |
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oliphantI Have 8 Boobies Premium Member join:2004-11-26 Corona, CA 1 edit |
oliphant
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 8:48 pm
Who cares?How about asking about POTS deployment? It wouldn't occur to them that mobile phones are popular in some countries because that's the only phone service they can get or that is cheap/reliable?
And who gives a shit about broadband penetration? Whether or not broadband is available is what is important...not whether or not people are buying it. Penetration is not synonymous with available. Cellular and broadband are plenty available to the vast majority of Americans. They're just not compelling products to a lot of people who have other sources of communications and/or entertainment.
Next up, Firefox downloads hit X# and FIOS deploys only to the super rich. | |
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TychicusChildren are our most precious resource Premium Member join:2002-01-18 Helena, MT |
Tychicus
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 10:14 pm
who cares?well obviously the people who live in an area with more than one broadband provider dont as there is a little competition in the market.. Here is an answer I got when I sent a letter to the FCC at least there is a phone number and if enougn people called and complained who knows? Thank you for contacting the Federal Communications Commission. When the Commission made the declaratory ruling that cable modem service was under the jurisdiction of the FCC because it was an interstate information service and was not a cable service as defined in the Communications Act of 1934, the Commission also opened a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) proceeding. In this proceeding, the FCC is examining the jurisdictional extent in which the FCC and the State will have in processing cable modem complaints. Once the Media Bureau examines and reviews all comments submitted and clarifies our role, and provides guidelines, we will have a clearer procedure in processing future cable modem complaints/inquiries. The NPRM is currently pending and will be acted on by the Commission at some future undetermined date. The matter is currently before the Media Bureau in CS Docket Number 02-52. The public is welcome to submit their comments and/or follow this proceeding by accessing the FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System (ECFS) at this web site: » www.fcc.gov/e-file/ecfs.htmlECFS is designed to give access to Commission rulemakings and docketed proceedings via the World Wide Web. ECFS will accept electronic comments in certain proceedings; scan in paper documents; and allow research, retrieval, and printing of any documents in the system. If your cable modem service is provided via a contract, you may wish to contact your local consumer protection office and/or state Attorney General's office for guidance. You may also wish to file your complaint with the FCC by calling our Consumer Center toll free at 888-225-5322. Please note that the Commission does not have the authority to "create" a competitive entity. With regards to cable service; there is no federal law or Commission rule that prohibits cable competition. Any entity wishing to provide cable (or cable like) services, must obtain approval from the local franchise authority - not the FCC. Alternatives to cable modem services include, but are not limited to: wireless internet, satellite internet, and/or broadband over power lines (BPL). Hope this information proves helpful. C.Howell FCC/Consumer & Governmental Affairs Bureau 202-418-1569 | |
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thender2Glamour Profession Premium Member join:2004-05-16 Staten Island, NY |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Apr-3 11:24 pm
broadband is badFaster upstreams allow people to pirate music faster. Faster downstreams allow people to download pirated movies, tv shows, and music faster. Higher caps(or the lack thereof) allow pirates to download more pirated movies, tv shows, and music.
Broadband is bad for the U.S. | |
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Re: broadband is badI can see the sarcasm in that post | |
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| | Talis join:2001-06-21 Houston, TX |
Talis
Member
2006-Apr-4 2:23 pm
Re: broadband is badI see the sarcasm, but I also think he's exactly right. These innovations that require large pipes are being held up by the copyright holders. They won't build distribution systems that require users to have larger pipes until the whole issue of DRM is resolved, one way or the other. Between the incumbent media giants and the incumbent telcos, trying their best to quash VOIP and invent new schemes to make money without doing much to earn it, the demand for anything faster than dialup will dry up. | |
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We set out own paceWe all cry about what other country's have and what we would like but we continue to pay our cable and internet bill each month which makes them happy and investors happy, why would they care what other country's have? It's not like we are going to get mad and pack up and move over there. Here things are driven from competition but most areas don't see it. Why? You call Verison to ask for there service but if qwest is in your area you don't have a chance. I think they try to keep a balance of some sort until someone has a upgrade in a area were people do have a choice, then you have the little wars that take place but they could ALL care less what some other country has. | |
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PILMAN join:2002-11-23 Fort Walton Beach, FL |
PILMAN
Member
2006-Apr-4 9:57 am
The market doesn't demand itYes but also look at how large our country is. The square miles is a lot. Japan and South Korea are small countries. Granted our metropolis areas have broadband many of those areas have fiber. Infact I wouldn't even say we don't have the technology, at my work here we're running fiber, 100 mbit speeds both ways granted it cost an arm and a leg, we have the technology it's just not affordable because theres not a huge market out there. We're really considered the "minority". Most people just want what works and thats how the market is. Heck at home I have 9mbit download/1 mbit upload with COX granted it'd be nice to use VOIP, stream high resolution video without lag, play a game, download a few torrents with no impact on my line whatsoever but until the majority of the market wants it I don't see it happening. | |
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