 
hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA | There's that word again UNLIMITED | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: There's that word again Yep, and they put it right on the bill. "Unlimited KB on handset". | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA | Re: There's that word again *WAITING*
for the corp. apologist or astroturfer to creep out.
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
2 edits | Re: There's that word again They are simply using the term "unlimited" to lure new customers. Once the customer signs up, all deals are off regarding unlimited use.
That's shitty marketing.
Isn't that kinda like bait and switch? 
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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not sure batey boy
@rr.com
 from:
hopeflicker 
| Re: There's that word again more like bait and switch | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by N3OGH :Yep, and they put it right on the bill. "Unlimited KB on handset". EXACTLY! on handset. now if the handset is being used as a "MODEM" and tethered i can see why VZ is balking. this was never meant to be a replacement for regular broadband(DSL or cable)
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| UMTech
join:2004-10-18
Miami, FL
| You mean UMLIMITED... notice the UMM... If they advertise a service as unlimited downloads and the consumer pays top dollar for that service (as I understand it, its the highest plan you can get), then they can't get mad when people actually use it to its fullest.
"... As an added extra free feature for your unlimited EV-DO download service plan, we are including our brand new and exciting invisible caps at no extra cost to you!"
Just my dos centavos.. | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: There's that word again said by UMTech :You mean UMLIMITED... notice the UMM... Seen too many Metro POS commercials? 
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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| | | UMTech
join:2004-10-18
Miami, FL
| Re: There's that word again LMAO! yes, yes I have I had Metro POS for a few months, reception sucked bad so I switched to Sprint. But their idea does seem to apply in this case | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| YOUR VERIZON WIRELESS CUSTOMER AGREEMENT
Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement
You agree not to resell our service to someone else without our prior written permission. You also agree your wireless phone won't be used for any other purpose that isn't allowed by this agreement or that's illegal. WE CAN, WITHOUT NOTICE, LIMIT, SUSPEND, OR END YOUR SERVICE OR ANY AGREEMENT WITH YOU FOR THIS OR ANY OTHER GOOD CAUSE, including, but not
limited to: (a) paying late more than once in any 12 months; (b) incurring charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (c) harassing our employees or agents; (d) lying to us; (e) interfering with our operations; (f) becoming insolvent or going bankrupt; (g) breaching this agreement; (h) "spamming," or other abusive messaging or calling; (i) modifying your wireless phone from its manufacturer's specifications; (j) providing credit information we can't verify; (k) using your service in a way that adversely affects our network or other customers; or (l) allowing anyone to tamper with your wireless phone number. We can also temporarily limit your service for any operational or governmental reason. »www.vzwshop.com/popups/customera···pup.aspx
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: There's that word again Now that's a funny agreement. One in particular is the (f) statement of going insolvent or bankrupt. There is a federal protection from people who have gone bankrupt to punish a person who has gone bankrupt on that basis alone. The only thing verizon could do is ask for a deposit of no more than they would ask for others or terminate the service if they go late again.
This particular end user agreement is garbage. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| said by BIGMIKE :YOUR VERIZON WIRELESS CUSTOMER AGREEMENT Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement You agree not to resell our service to someone else without our prior written permission. You also agree your wireless phone won't be used for any other purpose that isn't allowed by this agreement or that's illegal. WE CAN, WITHOUT NOTICE, LIMIT, SUSPEND, OR END YOUR SERVICE OR ANY AGREEMENT WITH YOU FOR THIS OR ANY OTHER GOOD CAUSE, including, but not limited to: (a) paying late more than once in any 12 months; (b) incurring charges larger than a required deposit or billing limit (even if we haven't yet billed the charges); (c) harassing our employees or agents; (d) lying to us; (e) interfering with our operations; (f) becoming insolvent or going bankrupt; (g) breaching this agreement; (h) "spamming," or other abusive messaging or calling; (i) modifying your wireless phone from its manufacturer's specifications; (j) providing credit information we can't verify; (k) using your service in a way that adversely affects our network or other customers; or (l) allowing anyone to tamper with your wireless phone number. We can also temporarily limit your service for any operational or governmental reason. » www.vzwshop.com/popups/customera···pup.aspx Please tell me this is not real? A judge would laugh VZ right out of court with the agreement. | |
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| | | wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: There's that word again Please tell me this is not real? A judge would laugh VZ right out of court with the agreement.
Why? Even the bankrupcy bit seems standard to me. And if you bankrupt, you are a bad credit risk, so can't they put a billing limit on yer account? Or stop selling you something? Banks are not obligated to continue your credit card account if you bankrupt. | |
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Cheese
Premium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
clubs:
| Re: There's that word again said by wev567 : Please tell me this is not real? A judge would laugh VZ right out of court with the agreement.
Why? Even the bankrupcy bit seems standard to me. And if you bankrupt, you are a bad credit risk, so can't they put a billing limit on yer account? Or stop selling you something? Banks are not obligated to continue your credit card account if you bankrupt.
These 3 right here.
(c) harassing our employees or agents; (d) lying to us;
(j) providing credit information we can't verify;
Lying to you? How are they going to "verify" you are lying to them? Harassing employees? Then every company would disconnect their customers. And not verifying credit before giving the service? I believe most cellular companies verify credit BEFORE giving the service. | |
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| | Techman21
join:2005-04-14
Richmond, VA
| And how pray-tell do I get to that page without using that link?
Here is one that I found by browsing from their main site to the verizon wireless site, using only the links provided on the official Verizon website. You have to enter in the area code you are looking for. My guess is due to different county,city, and state laws that could affect the agreements so they have to be worded differently. If not this is a stupid extra step.
What area is that agreement for?
What year was it created? (01/17/2005 is what I find at the bottom)
Now, here is the site I found, as I said using only the Verizon.com links: »www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/glob···ment.jsp
This is for the area code 23924 (Chase City,Va), so it could be different for other locales. Notice the date at the bottom as being 2/5/06 A much more recent date. Although the same or similar writing still appears. You can find it in the section labeled: Our Rights To Limit Or End Service Or This Agreement | |
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jc1350
join:2004-09-23
| unlimited != limited from Merriam-Webster:
Pronunciation: -'li-m&-t&d
Function: adjective
1 : lacking any controls : UNRESTRICTED
2 : BOUNDLESS, INFINITE
3 : not bounded by exceptions : UNDEFINED
I just don't see how this can't be classified as false and misleading advertising. | |
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| Luchador
join:2003-05-31
Covina, CA | Re: unlimited != limited This is the old buffet "all-you-can-eat!", "unlimited refills" argument all over again. Just because it's "unlimited" trips to the salad bar doesn't mean you can give food to your friends outside the restaurant. | |
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| | jc1350
join:2004-09-23 | Re: unlimited != limited You are correct, but that's not my point. There are people who get those letters who are the sole users of the account. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by Luchador :This is the old buffet "all-you-can-eat!", "unlimited refills" argument all over again. Just because it's "unlimited" trips to the salad bar doesn't mean you can give food to your friends outside the restaurant. If that becomes an issue with the buffets, then, they too, should not use the term "unlimited".
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: unlimited != limited said by hopeflicker :If that becomes an issue with the buffets, then, they too, should not use the term "unlimited". I don't think I've seen any buffet use the word "unlimited."
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Rove / Rumsfeld 2008! | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: unlimited != limited said by pnh102 :said by hopeflicker :If that becomes an issue with the buffets, then, they too, should not use the term "unlimited". I don't think I've seen any buffet use the word "unlimited." I think i see them use the term "all you can eat" when means all-*YOU*-can-eat. Not your neighbor.
sorry guys, but the buffet analogy is feeble.
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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| | | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | Re: unlimited != limited No the buffet analogy is spot on.
If they only give you one peice of steak for $18.00 then that is "all you can eat" for $18.00. | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: unlimited != limited said by b10010011 :No the buffet analogy is spot on. If they only give you one peice of steak for $18.00 then that is "all you can eat" for $18.00. Not exactly, they advertise all you can eat. Meaning all *YOU* can eat. The dont advertise UNLIMITED eating.
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| Hmm.. English isn't your first language, so let me give you quick refresher on how english works. It's a complex language, so you may need to read it several times.
"You" in the sentence "all you can eat" is a subjective personal pronoun. The subjective personal pronouns are "I," "you," "she," "he," "it," "we," "you," "they." In this case, the 'you' is a pronoun acting as the subject of the sentence. The "You" as a pronoun, replaces the noun of the sentence, and signifies the READER, not the speaker. The verb 'eat' refers to the pronoun in this case.
Now, it's true that sometimes the word "you" can be used as an objective personal pronoun, as in the phrase "he will communicate the rules to you", but that is only the case when the pronoun is part of the preposition "to".
So for those of us who have graduated past the 4th grade, the sentence "All YOU can eat" is easy to understand. Too bad verizon marketing people either a)haven't moved past the 4th grade, or b)are liars! Survey says... "99 out of 100 people say B!)
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
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Double-Speak 2 Me
@comcast.net
from:
Kiwi
| It is not false advertising; if it were, then every business would have lawsuits filed. What they are doing is called "UP-SELLING" something that all profitable business market. Put in bold print what consumers what to "SEE and HEAR", but at the same time, ensure the fine print Lawyer talk is included.
Now to my point. Never do you see or hear it said UNLIMITED downloading or bandwidth usage. It just merely states, unlimited. Back to the legal jargon. You, He, She, may use the service anytime day or night, and for as often as you would like. Thus, Our ISP meaning, UNLIMITED.
FINE PRINT meaning: We, being the ISP, have the right to monitor and limit your over-usage of said bandwidth- downloading, at any given time, as We, the ISP may deem necessary. As to ensure all of You, He, She, may HAVE and USE at ANYTIME, UNLIMITED said service, which does not HINDER or INTERFERE with OUR ISP's ability to DEPLOY equal Bandwidth to ALL of our said Members.
Please enjoy OUR, the ISP/Company's UNLIMITED usage of YOUR, the PAYER's service.
Sincerely,
The COMPANY LEGAL DEPARTMENT | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: unlimited != limited said by Double-Speak 2 Me :
Thus, Our ISP meaning, UNLIMITED.
And this is the problem right there. They change meanings of the English language.
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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| | | | | | Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA | I think that is quite descriptive and the real intent is obvious, just happy I don't have to deal with that kind of ISP  They are NOT all the same, fortunately.
Cheers | |
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sapo
The Internet is Down
Premium
join:2002-09-16
Sacramento, CA | Go Cry Yourself to sleep knowing 10 million people in the world hate you.
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I throw bricks at the devil | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by hopeflicker :said by Luchador :This is the old buffet "all-you-can-eat!", "unlimited refills" argument all over again. Just because it's "unlimited" trips to the salad bar doesn't mean you can give food to your friends outside the restaurant. If that becomes an issue with the buffets, then, they too, should not use the term "unlimited". Like this dive near me has "all you can eat" and then in a tiny font at the bottom says "limited to two plates per customer"
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: unlimited != limited said by dvd536 :said by hopeflicker :said by Luchador : Like this dive near me has "all you can eat" and then in a tiny font at the bottom says "limited to two plates per customer" LOL, now that is just down right wrong. Gotta laugh at that one though, especially coming from a dive place. --
You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| said by Luchador :This is the old buffet "all-you-can-eat!", "unlimited refills" argument all over again. Just because it's "unlimited" trips to the salad bar doesn't mean you can give food to your friends outside the restaurant. That isn't even the question. They're to the point if having a big spread and saying "unlimited" but the fine print says so long as it's only the mushrooms and turnips. All the good stuff is still limited even if you're by yourself.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
 ·Aristotle Internet
| I'm always intrigued by people who want something for nothing, no work, no payment -But give me the best you have!
It seems to me that a residential user, should expect residential broadband; if they use and want more the higher category of a 'Business' plan is available. People have become spoiled, with the advent of higher broadband capabilities -Those that grew up with a minimal dial up account understand, they are paying the same cost now for a gillion Kb's/sec more, as was charged for a 1200 line, back in time. It would do well, for some to reflect on Hx.
Broadband is a business, like any other and you get what you pay for! Though as a disclaimer, I don't care for how many ISP's try to sell their line. Most people are not Lawyers and when they see unlimited, they expect unlimited, it's a fallacy, a residential account is capped -There is no unlimited unless you pay for unlimited, Matrix revisited.
Cheers | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: unlimited != limited Seems to me that if VerizonWireless didn't mean "unlimited" then they should have said and continue to say "unlimited" in its advertising and service agreement.
And there is no distinction between their residential and business "unlimited" wireless data plans in terms of how limited their unlimited service is.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| said by Kiwi :I'm always intrigued by people who want something for nothing, no work, no payment -But give me the best you have!
B Cheers Once agian, It's not that we want something for nothing. It's, now read carefully, WE DONT WANT MISLEADING ADS!! Meaning, dont make up different definitions of the English language.
I hope that's clear now.
Most of use that are against this advertising practice are not bent out of shape because of "CAPS". It's the misleading ads.
Got that?
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You know, I'm not as dumb as you look. | |
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| | | Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| Re: unlimited != limited said by hopeflicker :said by Kiwi :I'm always intrigued by people who want something for nothing, no work, no payment -But give me the best you have!
B Cheers Once agian, It's not that we want something for nothing. It's, now read carefully, WE DONT WANT MISLEADING ADS!! Meaning, dont make up different definitions of the English language. I hope that's clear now. Most of use that are against this advertising practice are not bent out of shape because of "CAPS". It's the misleading ads. Got that? I think I answered that! »unlimited != limited
Cheers | |
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Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | machine2machine wtf? Can not be used for "machine to machine" purposes. WTF is that? Every host on the internet is a machine. Every TCP transacation is between 2 hosts ( machines. ). | |
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roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
| Re: machine2machine wtf? said by Enlightener :Can not be used for "machine to machine" purposes. WTF is that? Every host on the internet is a machine. Every TCP transacation is between 2 hosts ( machines. ). I don't think anyone really knows...it sounds like they're referring to things like cron jobs, rsync, batch processing, etc. Needless to say, a lot of us sysadmin types have been put off by that odd clause...
-SC
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"it seems like all you ever buy is Abercrombie and cell phones" --a friend | |
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| | barky
Premium
join:2001-03-17
San Diego, CA |  Re: machine2machine wtf?
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jdir
join:2001-05-04
Santa Clara, CA | unlimited on handset? Uh gee - why would anyone get internet access on a handset?
and is anyone going to download 600G a month via their handset? | |
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: unlimited on handset? Because you can get an aircard (I assume) and also use your laptop on the beach.. | |
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macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY
| Here's another word: G R E E D
its always been Verizon motto unless of course a competitor has them up against a wall.... then drive down price, kill competitors and then back to G R E E D.
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"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada | |
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| Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: Here's another word: said by macaholic :G R E E D This pleases me to no end.
But, hey, I am not a subscriber, just a shareholder.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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| | macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY
| Re: Here's another word: said by Beeper :said by macaholic :G R E E D This pleases me to no end. But, hey, I am not a subscriber, just a shareholder. Don't worry the ripple effect of G R E E D is indeed felt by you. You're just too G R E E D Y and short minded to know. Like the price you pay for stuff, the bills at the supermarket, the cost of your dinner out. The businesses and folks who pay for G R E E D pass those costs to you and everybody else. Enjoy your net losses....
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"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada | |
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| | | Beeper
Part Of The Problem
join:2001-09-27
Dayton, OH
clubs:
| Re: Here's another word: Yes, G R E E D is glorious, isn't it? My portfolio is up 20% this YTD alone. A few more years like this, instead of being wealthy I shall be deliriously rich! Gotta love AMD and Peruvian copper mines!
I take the long term. I plan on saving x dollars weekly and do so automatically. I invest them in index funds, I bonds, and select stocks.
Thanks to the new Super Wal Mart they built a mile away from me, my goods are cheaper than ever. The union gangsters at UFCW 1099 have extorted the last of my dollars from me.
Eat out? I don't eat out; it is hard to do with kids and interferes with long term wealth building. What's the difference between a $4 steak from Copey's Butcher Shop vs a $20 steak at the Golden Lamb?
Here's a hint; one of them was cooked properly by me.
Higher costs? Well, my property taxes did go up $15 bucks a month, and gas is discouragingly high, but I keep getting good performance reviews and sweet raises.
Hey, maybe you'll wash my car someday! I promise to tip well.
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Guaranteed Fear and Loathing. Abandon all hope. Prepare for the Weirdness. Get familiar with Cannibalism. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Annoying. Cut the crap already Verizon, if you cannot sell unlimited plans don't sell them at all.
Verizon: But it would not look good as a marketing scheme.
Of course not, but the truth hurt's don't it? Don't say unlimited unless it's truly unlimited.
I can already hear a sue coming along. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Verizon is committing fraud plain and simple Where is the FTC when you need them? | |
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See 23 replies to this post |
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GhostFreeman
join:2004-06-04
Rising Fawn, GA | Dick Lynch I find his name perfectly fitting.  | |
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vzfiostech29
Premium
join:2006-03-15
Virginia Beach, VA
| Misunderstanding I have not read or heard all of this. I just wanted to fill in a spots. As a tech that installs Broadband we are asked to go over the "terms of agreement" Most techs abridge these to the following:
1. if you cancel call me and I will pick up the router.
2. Verizon cannot be held liable for anything you personally do illegally over this connection.
3. You are giving off a wireless signal. you are paying for it. It is violation to knowingly allow any others to use this signal
I do not think VZ has a problem with individual use just outsourcing the connection | |
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Better Than Comcast
@gte.net
| At least they are going to have a higher tier At least they are honest about it in the article.
Comcast would just cut the users off and not offer a higher tier that allows for more bandwidth.
Although it's still false advertizing, it is a nicer definition of "Unlimited" that Comcast has. | |
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DaOne
join:2002-12-20
Prineville, OR
|  Total Crap....
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VerizonSuxz
@mchsi.com | Re: Total Crap.... Time for a class action lawsuit.
It's time to hold these companies accountable for selling their service as 'Unlimited' and then imposing arbitrary caps at a whim. False advertising, plain and simple. | |
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poorroadwarriors
@verizon.net
| We love you Let's see, the number of companies who suck off the business traveler... Mariott, Verizon, Sprint,
boo hoo.. all that evdo unlimited bandwidth they get gouged for is going to get more expensive... we weep for them!
Can't wait until satllite companies come to their senses that the air is rather THIN in the low-orbit satellite business and deploy dirt-cheap wimax unlimited broadband with dedicated stream bandwidth PER USER. | |
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Chuck D
@rr.com
| ... It looks like it is unlimited as long as you are using the service as it was sold to you... kinda like free soda refills are per visit and limited to the supplied container. I would imagine that bringing an empty 2 liter bottle in and filling it before you leave would not be included in what you paid for. | |
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RR206
join:2001-12-11
Renton, WA
clubs: | That's too expensive in the first place. Sprint's unlimited handset data is only $15/mo first line & 7.50 each additional. $25/mo for handset as a modem plan. Can't believe Verizon charges that much already... | |
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| OafyC
Premium
join:2004-05-17
Indianapolis, IN
clubs:
| Re: That's too expensive in the first place. Verizon charges about the same for handset use. The $60 and $80 is for PC cards. It is the same amount that Sprint charges. What is funny about this announcement is Sprint just announced that they are going to offer a Linksys EVDO router compatible with their EVDO cards.
»abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/st···=1808292 | |
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G_Poobah
join:2004-01-17
Schenectady, NY
| These are the lies predicted months ago. Original article posted 02/13/06
Hasn't even taken them 2 months for their lies to be exposed. Cingular, Verizon, Sprint, they ALL lie. It's in their nature, it's what they do.
»Check back in 2 months..
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: These are the lies predicted months ago. Read the fine print thats how they get you all the time dosent matter what company. | |
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Phil Koenig
@pecialtyfibres.com
| If anyone here had actually taken a look at Verizon's terms of service for "Broadband Connect", they would have seen that Verizon (unlike most of the competition) _specifically_ stated exceptions to, and defined fairly specifically what "unlimited" means.
Cingular, for example, did _not_ do this, and then when more people started using their el-cheapo ("Media Connect" or "MediaNet"?) service heavily, they started cracking down and changed their terms of service to very much what Verizon had done themselves all along. (ie, no "tethering", no servers, no 24/7 sessions, etc etc)
Verizon's TOS seemed pretty draconian compared to competitors like Sprint and Cingular, until such time that reality hits and the companies with the more aggressive marketing have to tone down their message. I actually think Verizon deserves more credit than most of their competitors in this area.
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Verizon Wireless: Bandwidth Crackdowns
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