Killing the DVR Lawyers may kill Cablevision network DVR plan Cablevision's plan to eliminate the DVR and put that functionality at the network head-end first needs to get past broadcast lawyers, reports Reuters. 1,000 Cablevision households are engaged in the trial, which allows them to store 80gigs worth of video on the Cablevision network. Time Warner Cable ran trials of their own system and claimed trial participants were thrilled - but the launch of "Mystro" never happened, because broadcasters feared losing control of their content. Cable execs would like to do place-shifting as well, but are likewise fearful of industry lawyers. update: it looks like a lawsuit against Cablevision may already be in the works.
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  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | That comment doesnt make sense to me... "but the launch of "Mystro" never happened, because broadcasters feared losing control of their content."
Huh? How does taking the box AWAY from the consumer give the broadcaster less control? I could understand if this was said in the years before set top boxes were used at all, but now? I am still scratching my head on this one!
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Now THATS superfluous!! | |
|  |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: That comment doesnt make sense to me... said by wifi4milez:"but the launch of "Mystro" never happened, because broadcasters feared losing control of their content." Huh? How does taking the box AWAY from the consumer give the broadcaster less control? I could understand if this was said in the years before set top boxes were used at all, but now? I am still scratching my head on this one! The Mystro trial had the vendor(Time Warner) recording everything the broadcasters sent out and then, in effect, provided a video on demand service to the end user. This is identical to what the cable companies now call VOD. In VOD, the cable companies contract with and pay big money to the broadcasters for their content.
The Cablevision trial lets the end customer record something only for their own use and they hope this setup will be seen as "fair use" recording under the law. Because the end user can only record at the time of the original broadcast they feel they pass legal muster.
I guess the broadcasters aren't happy because if this works and is legal, it makes it cheaper and easier than with a HW DVR to record shows and gives DVR capabilities to many more millions of users. Users that, at least for now, can fast forward thru commercials. I'll bet that if the broadcasters cut a deal with the cable companies to prohibit fast forwarding thru commercials, their opposition will dry up. In fact, I'll bet that is almost inevitable.
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| | |  GlenQuagmireGiggidy Giggidy Giggidy GooPremium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | Re: That comment doesn't make sense to me... Well they can do what they want but I already have DVR sitting under my TV. When Comcast does move to this new system they are not going to make everyone turn in their DVR it will just be new customers they put on the new system. Do forget Comcast paid $600 each for these DVR, they are going to want to at least break even with them. What they should do is let the customer decide. If they want to use new system then give them a discount if a customer want a set top box charge a little more. I am sure really soon TV will start having DVR built right into them. | |
| | | | GlenQuagmireGiggidy Giggidy Giggidy GooPremium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | Re: That comment doesn't make sense to me... Remember there is still bit torrent. | |
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| | cluth
join:2004-01-06
Anchorage, AK | Re: That comment doesnt make sense to me... Actually, the cable companies have just as much to gain by prohibiting fast-forwarding through commercials as the networks do. Cable companies sell local advertisements and often superimpose them over the network's ads. Customers ignoring commercial breaks hurts the cable companies just as much as the networks (well, relatively speaking). | |
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|  oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Exactly what I was thinking...it seems that broadcasters would have more control through their "industry partners" like cable and telco video distributors who would also have a lot of lose and little to gain from video piracy.
Less equipment with the end user makes it cheaper and easier to control.
But as we see with the RIAA, these dinosaurs don't like change and they're scared sh!tless of it even when it could make them billions (eg the home video market which the MPAA fought with every breath).
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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 AlpinePremium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Anyone? Anyone seen a mockup of how this would look? I wouldn't mind ditching the box if I could watch DVR'd content on all of my TVs. I have DirecTV, however, so it's a moot point for me right now..
Adam | |
| | | | slow fast forward My video on demand has one fast forward speed and its very slow. Plus there is at least a four second delay from when I push fast forward to when it actually starts and from when I push play again to when it slows down. | |
| |  palmer_j_rCongenital OptimistPremium
join:2000-06-08
Chicago, IL | Re: slow fast forward mine has fast fast forward, except it's a little deceiving. You can ramp it up to FF 4, but there's 5 arrows pointing right!?! What's up with that? | |
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oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Nervous but could be good... I would like to see the end of set top boxes all together and cable-card sets able to do more things like handle VOD and head-end DVR.
But then from history I know what this will get us...no more skipping commericals...TiVo-like banner ads all over everything, horrid DRM limiting how long we can keep a show or whether we can keep it at all.
And broadcasters are nervous? They're silly. There is no end to the amount of whoring they could do with this new head-end stuff.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
| | | | Re: Nervous but could be good... Very nervous.
Ever seen TNT? Remember how they bastardized TV shows by having the 1/8th banner at the bottom, throughout the ENTIRE show? And it distorted the picture size. I've never watched TNT since, but hey, there was no commercial skipping at least. Expect to see something similar, where they 'box in the TV show with scrolling ads on all sides..
*oh crap, I hope they don't get any ideas*
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Flabby? pastey-skinned? riddled with phlebitis? Then you've got a good Republican body! So compare your lives to mine, and then kill yourself. | |
| | |  kcttocsIphone junkiePremium
join:2002-03-07
Missouri | Re: Nervous but could be good... yep... they are already digitally inserting advertisements w/ some shows. IE coke bottles, cereal boxes etc...
Pretty soon, thats gonna be the way, the only way to advertise...  | |
| | | Reviews:
 ·Cox HSI
1 edit | That is why I love my VCR - Yes folks I said VCR. You know the one with very low resolution compared to digital.
The VCR simply works for me.
Fast forward commercials.
Take show from room to room.
Store as long as I want - Yes I know picture degrades, but I have stuff that is going on 20+ years old and ok.
I have been able to keep my recordings after living at many different places with different cable service. | |
| | | |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | Re: Nervous but could be good... Yeppers!
I have VCR in the living rom.. and this laptop *IS* a DVR!
They aint taking shit from me!
FFW works great on both! VCR even has "Commercial Skip" button on the remote! 
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
| | | | | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: Nervous but could be good... My only problem with using my MC PCs is no HD but my HD DirecTiVos have that covered. Cable and telcos will have to do better than SD VOD to get me back.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | I do see how this could be implemented. I hate trying to watch tv when my local station takes up half the screen while showing weather related closings. I bet this could be a similar setup for advertisers. Once a good percentage of the populous are fast forwarding through commercials, then we will either see a lot more cheap reality shows or these integrated advertisements. I wonder if actual commercial breaks will disappear all together and create 40 min time slots. | |
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|  PathfinderDazed ConfusedPremium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | For 3 days this week I wanted to watch a show on Showtime on demand. For 3 days the excuse was high bandwidth usage in Mount Vernon.
They can keep this idea.
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support the Hunley | |
| | | RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: Nervous but could be good... That's pretty much SOP for Comcast around here. That is, when you can get the system to respond at all...
The remote control lag is absurdly long (5-8 seconds at times) and the picture tends to cut in and out. Unless you're a fan of modern art-ish blocks of color randomly scattered through the program, it's kinda annoying.
Until this has the same response time as a customer-side PVR (or even that ancient VCR), they can keep it.
Actually, they can keep it either way. I don't need Comcast inserting even more ads into programming, which is the real reason they want to move this back to the headend.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | Wow, a whopping 80GB! So far from reality ... Unless the Cablevisionless is using a more advance video CODEC than MPEG-2, or not offering HDTV, then why would someone settle for this measly 80GB of online storage space?
I cannot help but wonder if Cablevision is planning on something truly evil (ahem, original), like inserted commercials or something. | |
| |  DerchPremium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI | Re: Wow, a whopping 80GB! So far from reality ... I was about to post that I'm only allowed 50 gigs on my DVR from Cox. | |
| | | amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Wow, a whopping 80GB! So far from reality ... must be an older one, or somehow disabled otherwise. I had a 120GB moto and especially liked it when they finally 'enabled' the dual tuners...
cable co's will not likely just abandon such an expensive investment this soon. like others have also said, having the actual box counts for a lot when there's "nothing on."
also have to agree w/G_Poobah on the ads thing... I loath huge annoying banner ads, esp. the one's which take up way too much screen, squeeze the picture, and serve no useful purpose other than to distract and interrupt. animating some idiot during whatever I'm watching is terribly annoying.
I wonder if they'll use both... keep your dvr for the 'main' tv and have the option for this on other tv's with just a cable card or standard digital box. not a bad idea, but I would rather have direct control of the unit plugged in to my tv. | |
| | | | DerchPremium
join:2004-10-16
Cross Plains, WI Reviews:
·Charter
 ·DIRECTV
| Re: Wow, a whopping 80GB! So far from reality ... said by amungus:must be an older one, or somehow disabled otherwise. Cox tells me that's the biggest HD they have to date. | |
| | | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | said by amungus:must be an older one, or somehow disabled otherwise. I had a 120GB moto and especially liked it when they finally 'enabled' the dual tuners... cable co's will not likely just abandon such an expensive investment this soon. like others have also said, having the actual box counts for a lot when there's "nothing on." also have to agree w/G_Poobah on the ads thing... I loath huge annoying banner ads, esp. the one's which take up way too much screen, squeeze the picture, and serve no useful purpose other than to distract and interrupt. animating some idiot during whatever I'm watching is terribly annoying. I wonder if they'll use both... keep your dvr for the 'main' tv and have the option for this on other tv's with just a cable card or standard digital box. not a bad idea, but I would rather have direct control of the unit plugged in to my tv. USA network has some of the biggest annoying animated ads ive seen and they plaster them all over the show.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| GlenQuagmireGiggidy Giggidy Giggidy GooPremium
join:2004-02-16
Grand Rapids, MI | My 120 gig DVR is still to small. I would love to have a 250 gig drive in it. | |
| | | amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: Wow, a whopping 80GB! So far from reality ... it'd be so nice if they just let you throw on an external or something.. I can understand they don't want you messing with the guts of the box and all. either way, they should allow you to have the option of upgrading, or maybe even hooking up a dvd burner.
120 was enough for me, no HD being recorded. it was also a dual HD tuner model, and could supposedly record two HD shows at one time. 250 would still barely be 'enough' for lots of HD quality... going beyond 250GB in a box would likely cost them too much, and I guess that would be one reason to do a little more at the office with some huge raid setups, but yeah, once one has a dvr, it is very hard to give up.. I miss mine, and don't watch nearly as much tv anymore since having to return it. someday I'll probably just build/buy one though, so no biggie. they can stream all they like, someone, somewhere, will still figure out how to get their homebrew dvr action working. | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| 80GB I would assume is the start... A friend of mine just started working for Cablevision, and one of the first things to learn was set top boxes. The HD-DVR only has 160GB hard drive, and boy were his supervisors pissed when he took it out of the demo unit and said "I want a bigger one!"...
HD-DVR + 160GB hard drive costs waaaay too much for a cableco to put onsite ($1000+). Building a massive RAID array at the headend makes it that much easier to build and maintain. That way the client only needs an HD box.
- Sherman
PS: Cablevision's HD-DVRs have both a SATA port and a FireWire port to add extra storage yourself... | |
| | | Outages There is no way I'll give up my DVR. Not that I use cable anymore but I don't see it as an option if I did. With all the outages cable seems to have I couldn't depend on them to store my content. And even if there was a cable outage, I would still be able to watch TV with a STB DVR. But I would be all for a local home server based DVR if the content was located at my home. | |
|  MacLeechThe one and onlyPremium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
kudos:3 | Nice idea, but will it fix current DVR issues... Would the server still record the show if the cable was out? Meaning the cable between me and the local cable headend...
An upgrade from 80gigs should be pretty easy too, no box swapping. But would there be a monthly fee for a storage space increase?
I would think its accessible from every TV in the house with 2-way communication capability, like those with cable boxes and hopefully those with 2-way CableCARDs, which are supposed to be available soon.
How many simultaneously playing programs could be recorded? Most DVRs limit you to two. Three or four would be nice for some.
Can the system record part of the show missed if you tune-in and/or start recording after the program started? Some current DVRs do, some don't.
Beyond that I'd love to see it in action because EVERY cable DVR I've seen has issues and quirks. The Motorola 6412, Motorola Moxi, SA 8000, SA 8300, SA Moxi...
This would be awesome if done the right way.
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For official Adelphia support, contact Adelphia. I'm just here for advice... | |
| crk2h
join:2003-03-19
Murfreesboro, TN | about the anoying ads on TNT and USA and Nick now A have been saying for over a year now that we are going to have to make a pop up ad blocker for TV to get rid of all the anoying crap they have now... just a thought.. not possible but would be nice | |
| | | | Re: mystro at Time Warner a plan is in the works tentatively titled 'go back' meaning if you walked in at 8:15 and the show started at 8 pm you have the option to 'go back' via headend storage. I wonder if lawyers/media giants will squabble about that? | |
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