 | | Re I know it was done in only competitive markets. But how could they justify charging $179 for 30/5 if and when they upgrade those non competitive markets to 20/5 for $45?
I would think an increase in the 30/5 package is in the works as well.
It will be interesting to see how Cablevision responds in one of the most competitive markets in the Country, Long Island. | |
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|  JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:4
 ·Optimum Online
| Re: Re I wonder how CV is going to counter this, if at all?
They haven't even finished the upgrades to 15/2..
What next, 25/5???
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Warning, I have one poster on my radar, who has a problem if your opinion disagrees with their’s.RIAA... Bite me!!!! | |
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| nh5
join:2006-01-21
Old Bethpage, NY | I currently have to 20/5 package for 44.95 which used to be 15/5 and now im getting 34/2 damn!!!!!! I guess verizon screwed up my limit lol! | |
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|  koamPink PeckerPremium
join:2000-08-16
East Puddle
 ·Shoreham Telephone
1 edit | now it's getting tempting to leave reliable but expensive OOL, which has been really good to me for Fios - which is gonna be a bit faster at a real 10 (vs. a wishful 15 on OOL - which is really like 8) ....for $15 less a month. one thing stopping me is the very bad service i had as an original verizon dsl customer...they never made it work.
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Danieli Consulting LLC, Strategy and Branding
»kdanieli.com | |
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| | JRW2R.I.P. Mom, Brian, Ziggy, Max and Zen.Premium
join:2004-12-20
La La Land
kudos:4 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| Re: Re said by koam:now it's getting tempting to leave reliable but expensive OOL, which has been really good to me for Fios - which is gonna be a bit faster at a real 10 (vs. a wishful 15 on OOL - which is really like 8) ....for $15 less a month. one thing stopping me is the very bad service i had as an original verizon dsl customer...they never made it work. Different technology, give it a chance, and bank the extra $15!
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Warning, I have one poster on my radar, who has a problem if your opinion disagrees with their’s.RIAA... Bite me!!!! | |
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 imtim83Hate the people from there. Stop copyingPremium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA | I wish I sure wish I lived in a area of New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut where OOL and FIOS were. | |
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| | | Re: I wish I wish Comcast would do something to piss off Verizon just like Cablevision. Unfortunately for me Comcast is using the "If we pretend they aren't there" approach. | |
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|  MysticGogetaThe Robot DevilPremium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX | I wish they would build a closer dsl tower in my area, Or for them to deploy fios in my area hurry up verizon! | |
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| |  TopmounterSent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | Re: I wish dsl tower? | |
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| | | | | Re: I wish hey, dont make fun of him! | |
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 Subaru1-3-2-4Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT | Not Automatic for some martkets? Looks like I have to call in for my speed update. | |
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 banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium
join:2001-08-18
Frisco, TX | Proof that Competition Works Now, how can we spread some of that industry competition around to other markets as well? 
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"I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
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 PhilRojo SolPremium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
kudos:2 | Holy Smokes! I would love to have the 20/5Mbps package. Heck, I am paying the same for my 3000/768 connection right now. 
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Correcting one "looser" at a time. | |
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Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| They cant compete with Cablevision in The 5 Boroughs In the 5 boroughs many residents live in the bronx, brooklyn and parts of other boroughs served by cablevision. In the bronx boost is available for 64.95 and you get the following download and upload speeds. 30mbs down and 2mbs up. Thats about 120 dollars cheaper than verizon. | |
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| jammmin
join:2000-12-14
Upper Marlboro, MD | Re: They cant compete with Cablevision in The 5 Boroughs Verizon offers FIOS 30/5 service for $55 a month in Long Island and certain areas in Virginia. It can institute this in all the areas it serves if it wants to . | |
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| Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| quote:
In the bronx boost is available for 64.95 and you get the following download and upload speeds. 30mbs down and 2mbs up. Thats about 120 dollars cheaper than verizon.
Next time u post a cablevision commercial, please be informed and know that in OOL territory, Verizons 30/5 FIos service is $55 a month.. $15 cheaper and better than cable.
LOL ! | |
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|  ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23
2 edits | said by bronxlcsw:In the 5 boroughs many residents live in the bronx, brooklyn and parts of other boroughs served by cablevision. Verizon's FIOS can't compete in the boroughs because they can't service apartment buildings. OOL wins the boroughs by default.
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"tick...tick...tick..."
»www.jtf.org/
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| | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: They cant compete with Cablevision in The 5 Boroughs Read this forum:
»Re: Unofficial Next Comcast Speed Upgrade Rumor Topic
there is a link about Verizon's Multi-Dwelling Units...
They ARE able to deliver to apartments. Its not going to happen overnight. Cable certainly didn't. "Good things come to those who wait" | |
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| | | | That was what i was trying to say. Thanks... | |
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 FiLPremium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
1 edit | GOOD GOD 'BX!!^^
Nice speeds! Aint not gotdamn way my areas going to get that kind of speed for that kind of price.
Im switching from Comcast to Verizon next month thought to take advantage of the luz. I need fiberop's in my life. Cant ownzer you foo's in ut2k4 without it!
damn ball mice. | |
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| | So it is true I remember the posters here belittling it and saying it simply wouldn't happen. | |
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 John97Over The Hills And Far AwayPremium
join:2000-11-14
Southampton, PA | Hoping Comcast steps up.... Hopefully Comcast will do something to force Verizon's hand in my area, but it is doubtful.
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So put me on a highway And show me a sign And take it to the limit one more time | |
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 tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13 | Qwest is not far behind . . . I heard a rumour that Qwest will raise my 1.5Mbps Down rate to 1.6 Mbps in the year 2024.
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| | | Re: Qwest is not far behind . . . said by toby:I heard a rumour that Qwest will raise my 1.5Mbps Down rate to 1.6 Mbps in the year 2024. I thought your already had that increase awhile back
3,5,7mbps/896kbps? | |
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| | tobyTroy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13 Reviews:
·CenturyLink
| Re: Qwest is not far behind . . . said by attsbcisgay:said by toby:I heard a rumour that Qwest will raise my 1.5Mbps Down rate to 1.6 Mbps in the year 2024. I thought your already had that increase awhile back 3,5,7mbps/896kbps? Hardly anyone can get these speeds, a lot of areas can only get 256Kbps. Qwest is way behind. This year I only was able to get 1.5Mbps for the first time. The location of CO/RT's are not very dense. | |
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| | | | | Re: Qwest is not far behind . . . said by toby:said by attsbcisgay:said by toby:I heard a rumour that Qwest will raise my 1.5Mbps Down rate to 1.6 Mbps in the year 2024. I thought your already had that increase awhile back 3,5,7mbps/896kbps? Hardly anyone can get these speeds, a lot of areas can only get 256Kbps. Qwest is way behind. This year I only was able to get 1.5Mbps for the first time. The location of CO/RT's are not very dense. I feel bad for ya. It's like living in 2000 and never progressing. Sometime technology is more hype then brags. Everyone was so excited about 8.0/1.0 then there's was a catch. Then there was bandwidth problems, then their was distance. YMMV. | |
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 oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
4 edits | It's illegal What they're doing is predatory pricing and it's illegal, same crap Comcast and Cox pull all the time. They can not offer cheaper prices solely to deal with localized competition, while maintaining higher prices for other users where they don't have to compete unless the costs to deliver those goods or services justify the price difference which in this case it wouldn't.
This is predatory pricing and is a violation of anti-trust laws. They are compelled by law to offer it to everyone, or no one. »Predatory pricing is a Federal Crime
quote:
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > § 13
§ 13. Discrimination in price, services, or facilities
(a) Price; selection of customers
It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, either directly or indirectly, to discriminate in price between different purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality, where either or any of the purchases involved in such discrimination are in commerce, where such commodities are sold for use, consumption, or resale within the United States or any Territory thereof or the District of Columbia or any insular possession or other place under the jurisdiction of the United States, and where the effect of such discrimination may be substantially to lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce, or to injure, destroy, or prevent competition with any person who either grants or knowingly receives the benefit of such discrimination, or with customers of either of them...
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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1 edit | Re: Predatory Pricing... said by oliphant:What they're doing is illegal. They can not offer cheaper prices solely to deal with localized competition, while maintaining higher prices for other users where they don't have to compete unless the costs to deliver those goods or services justify the price difference which in this case it wouldn't. This is predatory pricing and is a violation of anti-trust laws. They are compelled by law to offer it to everyone, or no one. Of course they can As long as it is done to and entire franchise area whats illegal about it? Cable companies do this now in areas where verizon is deployed or any other over builder is deployed. Sounds like a little jealousy to me. They have individual franchise agreement with each city or town so that law applies to each franchise area not the company as a whole. | |
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| | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
3 edits | Re: Predatory Pricing... The "similar" product isn't defined by the franchise area unless Verizon shows (if it is accused by consumers or the gov't anyway) it costs that different from franchise to franchise.
You really think it costs 3X the cost to deliver that service in one franchise versus another in the same state and it just so happens it's only very cheap to deliver service where they're seeing competition? I don't.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | Re: Predatory Pricing... I never said it cost them 3x more. What you don't understand is they have no requirements in pricing across franchise areas. What your quoting applies only to companies like directv which have national franchises. Explain to me why its legal for comcast,TW,etc to offer cheaper prices in areas where verizon and other over builders exist meanwhile when verizon is lowering there prices its now illegal. Now do you think the price difference is only in cost? | |
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| | | | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
2 edits | Re: Predatory Pricing... The law was written long before DBS and doesn't have any regional restrictions. It speaks only of the product being sold, not where it is sold.
And I never said it's legal for Comcast to do so. Actually I said it's not, multiple times.
»Predatory pricing is a Federal Crime
»More predatory pricing by Comcrap
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Predatory Pricing... Verizon is doing it in areas where there is not Cablevision I think. They are testing the pricing scheme I think and it will be implemented at some point to the rest of the country. | |
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| | | Re: It's illegal This is the same practice that sent all of our manufacturing jobs overseas. Undercut the competition, outlive your opponents, and raise prices through the roof! | |
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| | | | Re: It's illegal Well, why not 100/100 megabits?
That would kill cablevi$ion's profits quite nicely in one swoosh! Make it $99 and include free voip and/or basic cable. Buhye buye cablevision...! They diluted their stock value already by adding shares. Might as well knock cablevision while they mess their company value up.
Speaking of predatory pricing, wouldn't it be a good idea for one gas/oil company to undercut the compeition of exxon/mobile, now that they're getting a bad rap!
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|  n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| I suppose they could get around it by offering the higher speeds only where they run head to head with Cablevision. In which case the clause "commodities of like grade and quality" would not apply. Most areas get 20/2 for $44.95 but another area gets 30/5 for $44.95. Since the "grade and quality" is different how can it be discriminatory? It would IMHO be discriminatory if the speed was 20/2 everywhere but the price was lower in those areas where there was competition.
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | Re: It's illegal Which it is... 30/5 costs $179 in one area and $45 in the next. That's predatory pricing and illegal. They should offer it for $45 everywhere unless they can show why their costs justify it to be $179 in the non-competitive markets.
If it is genuinely cheaper to deliver the products, they can certainly charge different prices, but it is illegal to drop the price only to compete...especially when it is this transparent.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Kernersville, NC Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: It's illegal said by oliphant:Which it is... 30/5 costs $179 in one area and $45 in the next. That's predatory pricing and illegal. You are wrong, plain and simple. It was explained to you by the other poster. Its perfectly legal and not "predatory pricing". | |
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| | | | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
3 edits | Re: It's illegal And I explained why it is and posted the Federal law which clearly states that it is. The point brought up was these franchise boundries which the law, which I again quoted, makes no mention of.
If they want to drop the price or increase the speeds, they can do it everywhere, or no where. To increase the speed only where they see competition is illegal.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK
1 edit | From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Predatory pricing is the practice of a dominant firm selling a product at a loss in order to drive some or all competitors out of the market, or create a barrier to entry into the market for potential new competitors. The other firms must lower their prices in order to compete with the predatory pricer, which causes them to lose money, eventually driving them from the market. The predatory pricer then has fewer competitors or even a monopoly, allowing it to raise prices above what the market would otherwise bear.
In many countries, including the United States, predatory pricing is considered anti-competitive and is illegal under antitrust laws. However, it is usually difficult to prove that a drop in prices is due to predatory pricing rather than normal competition, and predatory pricing claims are now quite difficult to prove due to high legal hurdles designed to protect legitimate price competition."
Based on this , I'll consider what Verizon is doing is just plain competition. Verizon is not the dominant firm.
I would think these speeds will end up going to all areas that FIOS is available.
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President Hillary Clinton! Are you scared yet?
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| | oliphantI Have 8 BoobiesPremium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
2 edits | Re: It's illegal Normal competition doesn't matter...the law states they can not charge different prices to different consumers unless it costs them different when the purpose is to substantially lessen competition which them doing this in mainly competitive markets plainly shows.
Title 15 section 13 is what Verizon is violating. They are dropping the prices and raising speeds in those markets where they face stiff competition while maintaining higher prices for everyone else. Verizon can not do it to fight competitors in this matter.
It certainly is competing, but they are illegally competing in this instance.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, fascism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| Reviews:
 ·PHONE POWER
2 edits | Oliphant,
There are two holes in your argument.
A) quote:
where the effect of such discrimination may be substantially to lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce, or to injure, destroy, or prevent competition
The effect is not to lessen competition or create a monopoly. The actual existance of an alternative fosters competition, which is why you are seeing the difference in prices.
B) There are location specific factors which drive pricing disparity. Surely you don't believe that the price consumers pay for gasoline must be identical regardless of where you live? Those in New York pay more for the same gallon of Chevron gasoline than do those folks who live in Alaska, or Alabama. The same can be said for telephone service, auto/home/life insurances, meat, dairy, clothing, cars housing, and a host of other products and services.
Fact of the matter is:
Regional price differences do exist. Granted your example is an extreme case (likely brought about by the competition between Cablevision and Verizon) but anyone who lives in a single geographic serving area of Verizon is treated the same way. Frankly, there's nothing I see in your quoted paragraph that prevents a company from treating people in different serving areas differently. If you want the benefit of the competition between Cablevision and Verizon, move into an area served by both.
said by oliphant:They should offer it for $45 everywhere unless they can show why their costs justify it to be $179 in the non-competitive markets. If it is genuinely cheaper to deliver the products, they can certainly charge different prices, but it is illegal to drop the price only to compete...especially when it is this transparent. Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. Free market economies may tend towards a cost plus pricing schema. But they are certainly not mandated. Market based pricing is the norm in our economy.
[NG]Owner
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It is impossible to create an idiot-proof product. Humanity is simply too adept at churning out better idiots. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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|  stray
join:2000-01-16
Warren, NJ | Robinson-Patman act probably does not apply in this case.
»www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/patman.htm
By contrast, courts have concluded that the Act does not apply to intangible products such as cellular telephone service and cellular telephone activation service; the printing of comic books; newspaper advertising; real estate leases; long distance voice telecommunications services; and cable television service. When a transaction involves both the sale of goods and the sale of services, the Act applies "only if the 'dominant nature' of the transaction is a sale of goods." | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| nshulga
join:2002-06-06
Morrisville, PA | So is having 8 boobies. | |
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| zako234
join:2005-12-04
Great Neck, NY | hey, for those of us who have the fios 30/5 for 55 a month, or got upgraded to 20/5, it rocks. so stop complaining | |
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| Reviews:
·Cox HSI
| said by oliphant:What they're doing is predatory pricing and it's illegal, same crap Comcast and Cox pull all the time. They can not offer cheaper prices solely to deal with localized competition, while maintaining higher prices for other users where they don't have to compete unless the costs to deliver those goods or services justify the price difference which in this case it wouldn't. This is predatory pricing and is a violation of anti-trust laws. They are compelled by law to offer it to everyone, or no one. » Predatory pricing is a Federal Crime quote:
TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > § 13
§ 13. Discrimination in price, services, or facilities
(a) Price; selection of customers
It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, either directly or indirectly, to discriminate in price between different purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality, where either or any of the purchases involved in such discrimination are in commerce, where such commodities are sold for use, consumption, or resale within the United States or any Territory thereof or the District of Columbia or any insular possession or other place under the jurisdiction of the United States, and where the effect of such discrimination may be substantially to lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce, or to injure, destroy, or prevent competition with any person who either grants or knowingly receives the benefit of such discrimination, or with customers of either of them...
Oh but I thought Verizon didn't do those kinds of things, only the mean vicious cable companies. Please cite an instance of predatory pricing from Cox for us.
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"Don't steal. The government hates competition." | |
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| | If it works.. Well, that's between 60-100k subscribers.. if further speed increases/incentives make their way to customers in this territory, that's likley to go higher (percentage-wise).
But its a cup half empty/full argument, or a few dozen megabits too short, etc. What does 20 megabit fttp look like?
Will it be packet shaped, etc?
BTW, I'm in NY and haven't been bumped up yet, but then again, you can't hold good news down! Another incentive is for satellite customers who are starting to see RATE ^^INCREASES^^ (former cablevision customers in NY metro)to tell directv & dish network to screw themselves..! stick their lousy unsecured access cards up the kazule!
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 Rob AJets AFC ChampionshipPremium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Woot! Can't wait till fios is here! 10Mbps/2Mbps for 34.95 is one hell of a value. | |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Fast but... I've found that 80% of the sites I go to, don't offer that much after a certain load time. So you are lucky if you get over 300Kb/s from them.
I did some updates from M$ and was seeing speed greater than 4Mb/s. Not bad MS.
Seems only the big fellas have the bandwidth to serve. And since everyone now is getting faster, isn't all relative? | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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 Michieru2zzz zzz zzzPremium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | wtf.. Who needs all that bandwidth? Seriously, the only people who I think of using that bandwidth for legitimate reasons will be a medium size LAN of 20 or more computers.
What do people with Verizon FIOS basically use there bandwidth for? | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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| | southern california ? when will they delpoy FIOS here? would liek to switch once available | |
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 M A R KPremium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
·Optimum Online
| Long Island Prices This is the pricing structure for Long Island. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| | Why Get Fios.... When you can Have RR RR is increasing their speed from 5/384 to 7mbps/512kbps (in the summer)  way to keep up with competition Time Warner Cable.  | |
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| | | Re: Why Get Fios.... When you can Have RR said by Sh0wGun6:RR is increasing their speed from 5/384 to 7mbps/512kbps (in the summer) way to keep up with competition Time Warner Cable. Well it's better then 5/384 right? Not bad, not great lol.
I'm not much better off thought. as of this moment, 3.0/512 and it's like I'm living in feudal age. I been on this speed most of the times since 2005. Yea its ok but higher is always better thought it was costly awhile back 49.99.
Now 29.99 and some folks still prefer 27.99 online. Now you know people, they'll save a few bucks if its convenient and possible for them. | |
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| | Optimum hOes' Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client to server) . . . . . 4.55Mb/s
running 10s inbound test (server to client) . . . . . . 20.80Mb/s
The slowest link in the end-to-end path is a 10 Mbps Ethernet subnet
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| |  You're Missing the Point
FIOS to the Premise >>> Passive Fiber from Backbone to Backyard
The speeds that you are seeing now and just a taste of what FIOS can offer. Within a year, Verizon will push out the first true 100Mb download speed to the home. No matter what innovations cable makes, it will never be able to catch up to Verizon because it lacks the necessary transmission medium to attain "gigabitish" network levels.
By the way... Most people don't need more than 768kb for there home. An argument of neccessity vs WANT should never be brought up in the U.S. market. Even in Japan, there on the verge of gigabit FIOS, so don't knock it.
Verizon only has to contend with QoS to grow it's marketshare. As long as they can establish and maintain a quality service , they'll have no problem taking business away from competitors. And, even if they don't, this puts a fire under the rest of the industry to develop technology that is quicker and less expensive. Either way it's a win-win situation. | |
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