 
qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Fort Worth, TX
| I've Changed My Mind If the taxpayers of a city want to build their own system, then more power to them (pun intended). If the "providers" don't like it, then f*** and feed 'em fish heads. 
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“We want the Republicans out of our bedroom and the Democrats out of our wallet and both out of our First and Second Amendment rights." - Alan Nathan | |
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 | GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Re: I've Changed My Mind Well, while fiber-based Internet connectivity may not be on every consumers mind in Seattle, if the city deploys it and operates it like Project Utopia it could be a good thing for everyone, including the cable television and telephone providers.
This would remove the inherent costs of individual provider deployed transport networks and the consumers could see discounts on other services. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
1 edit | I agree!
I also don't understand why anyone would be against a municipality building the infrastructure and inviting ISPs to compete for services. If Quest thinks they can provide a better broadband service than Joe-ISP, then let them compete on the same fiber to the home!
It does noone good to have 10 companies all wiring up the streets (assuming 10 companies can afford it, which of course only 2 types can... cable and ILEC) and providing entries into the last mile when it can be done once AND give the consumer a choice (OMG, not a choice?!).
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | NoOneButMe
join:2001-08-24
TX | Re: I've Changed My Mind we are allready to tax'ed up here in Washington 8.9 sales tax and new gas's tax's due for july 1st but i think thay might rais tax's again for fiber there allready nailing up here | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: I've Changed My Mind Of course that is complete baloney Batterup. What regulatory control is there on building out a fiber network to run 'net access? The biggest obstacle to that is $$$, and tons of it. Only the current monopolies have enough to make it worth while, and only if they make sure there is no competition.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I've Changed My Mind said by ieolus  :Of course that is complete baloney Batterup. What regulatory control is there on building out a fiber network to run 'net access? The government regulates what the bits and bytes can do on the fiber. NO TV unless the town approves. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: I've Changed My Mind I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC.
What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I've Changed My Mind said by ieolus :I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC. What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces? Only if it is in direct competition with a business. What right does a business have to regulate a competitor? | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA
| Re: I've Changed My Mind said by batterup :said by ieolus :I think we have a miscommunication... when I say government, I'm usually refering to the Federal Government in Washinton DC. What the State or Municipality does it a completely different animal. So according to your above statement, you disagree then that a locality (whether city or county) has the right to regulate access to it's public spaces? Only if it is in direct competition with a business. What right does a business have to regulate a competitor? That is kind of the point... it isn't a business, it is the municipality. You know, democratically elected by the people who actually live there. Again, are you saying the people who live in the town (city, locality etc.) don't have the right to choose their own service and how it is provided?
Why in the world would you think a business would have some G-d given right to do business w/o any competition, because that is what I keep reading into your words...?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I've Changed My Mind said by ieolus :Why in the world would you think a business would have some G-d given right to do business w/o any competition, because that is what I keep reading into your words...? You are reading the words through dirty glasses. When the town becomes the business it is no longer just a government it is a business. A business with the power to limit competition as it is also the regulator.
It would be like giving the Cable company the power to regulate The Phone Company. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: I've Changed My Mind No, it wouldn't. The Cable company isn't elected by the people who live in the town.
What exactly do you think a municipality should do for its citizens then?
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I've Changed My Mind said by ieolus :No, it wouldn't. The Cable company isn't elected by the people who live in the town. What exactly do you think a municipality should do for its citizens then? The government should not do what is written in The Communist Manifesto. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: I've Changed My Mind What?!
You are demented. | |
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| waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
| As has been mentioned Seattle could learn a lesson from what the City of Tacoma has done with The Click! Network (www.click-network.com). Tacoma already has services to all of Tacoma, University Place, Fircrest, Most of the City of Lakewood and should be done with a buildout to Fife by the end of the year. THen after Fife comes unincorporated Pierce County (finally).
Standard cable (channels 2-99) is around $25-30 bucks a month. High speed internet starts out at around $25 through one of the the three ISPs that resell for the City.
Broadband pipes (DS1s, etc), metro ethernet, etc, can also be purchased.
Hmm, maybe residents of Seattle and King County should just ask Tacoma to bring service there?? It might get done quicker and cheaper  | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-) said by waka :As has been mentioned Seattle could learn a lesson from what the City of Tacoma has done with The Click! Network (www.click-network.com). If I wanted to set up cable TV and internet would I be able to use the click-network? Yes, when hell freezes over.
Would I be able to set up my own network without getting permission from my competition the City of Tacoma? Yes, the day after hell freezes over.
Co-ops are socialist at best, bordering on Communism. | |
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| | | waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
| Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-) Yeah I'm not sure where you are coming from but in the Cities that are covered by Click, you have choice. You can even have a mix of the two. You could have Comcast as your Internet provider and Click as the Cable TV Provider or vice versa. How is having a choice socialism?
I guess hell has frozen over, at least in Tacoma. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-) said by waka :Yeah I'm not sure where you are coming from but in the Cities that are covered by Click, you have choice. You can even have a mix of the two. You could have Comcast as your Internet provider and Click as the Cable TV Provider or vice versa. How is having a choice socialism? I guess hell has frozen over, at least in Tacoma. Does Comcast have its own cable?
Does Comcast have to get a franchise form Tacoma?
If the answer is yes to both questions you have a lack of understand of what I said. | |
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| | | | | waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
1 edit | Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-) My lack of understanding to your posts perhaps is DIRECTLY related to your inability to be clear in the point you are trying to make? For example, you reply to my first post by asking unrelated questions and spouting off something about socialism, communism and hell freezing over. Maybe you misread my posts or have a serious reading comprehension problem, but I assure you, my post had nothing to do with socialism and commies nor was it religious in any way.
But let's clarify some things: By the comments you made I'm assuming you dislike franchise agreements? Are you trying to say that franchise agreements equate to some part of communism/socialism? or is somehow undemocratic? If so, what parts of a franchise agreement make you feel this way? Do you think that just because the Click Network is city/government owned that they do not have to adhere to franchise agreements like the other privately owned competitors (Comcast in this area for CATV)? Also, what exactly is your experience in this area?
I look forward to your answers. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Seattle, just be like Tacoma? ;-) said by waka : Are you trying to say that franchise agreements equate to some part of communism/socialism? Do you think that just because the Click Network is city/government owned that they do not have to adhere to franchise agreements like the other privately owned competitors (Comcast in this area for CATV)? Also, what exactly is your experience in this area? It is not the franchise that is communism is is government running business. Government running business is communism look it up.
Why should a company have to go to a competitor, the government, to get permission go do business, franchise. Ether be a government and franchise or be a business and compete equally.
Is this network run by the government like roads and parks, everyone uses them for free except for taxes or is there an extra charge so only some will benefit. How much of this network is supported by government taxes? | |
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| GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Re: Can broadband provide what Seattle expects of it ? Its not just schools that can benefit from this. Imagine, hospitals using real-time video for advance diagnostics. Treat it like a MAN and it could be a good thing.
BTW, several hospitals are already using 100Mbps to GigE links for this. Just think of the children. lol | |
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| | pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Re: Can broadband provide what Seattle expects of it ? And lawsuits start in 3...2...1... | |
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| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| What you quote is 100% accurate.
If you read the article again and look past your financial interest you will see what he is actually saying is that the broadband network of a city is going to have great economic impact on ANY city of tomorrow. If they do not advance technologically all those things, including the quality of schools, will decline.
If any city in the world does not continue to advance in the respect to technology and services for it's citizens then they pack up and go somewhere that does. If the businesses aren't going there or leaving there to go else where, then the people won't be there either and that effects EVERYTHING in the city which includes that things you quoted above. | |
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Steve B
join:2004-08-02
Seattle, WA
| Well, I live in Seattle and............ I would love to see Seattle have their own network built just to piss off Qwest. I am so tired of the dam telcos saying "please wait for us, we'll service your needs." The thing is what they offer will turn out to be crap and/or is already crap and turn around and get mad when the city decides to do something about bad or non-existant service by doing it on their own. | |
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Westofhere
join:2005-04-07
Monroe, WA
| This could happen but... Our corrupt city council is going to make this happen, whether the tax payers vote "yes" or "no". Just like they make Seahawk Stadium and Safeco Field. The people say no we don't need this we want that but our little council says well we doing this anyway screw you voters we don't give a damn what you want. So we as taxpayers will have to fork out another 15 billion for another project that 90% of the citizens will not use and don't care about. Because they are sitting in their cars in traffic for 2 hours just trying to get home from work.
Thanks but no thanks Mayor Greg Nickels, you have made enough money off of us this year. | |
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| soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA
| Re: This could happen but... Ummm, you don't appear to live in Seattle (your handle says Monroe) so it is not your city council and this project would not cost you a penny. Let those of us who actually live there pass judgment on the merits of this.  | |
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| | JerryTongue
join:2003-04-01
Auburn, WA
| Re: This could happen but... I agree one should not make a statement to something they are not effected by, on the other hand my out look on this is this, a lot of people have wanted better, faster, more reliable service (some for a cheaper price) for a long time, some areas in Washington would say they have this which is fine. The area in which I live I am only able to get Cable,
Qwest is in my area so Verizon wont even venture out here, plus my distance from any hub. I can only read about areas getting upgrades and most are east coast areas seeing upgrades much sooner.It has always been " you will get what we give you when we give it to you" kinda thing but now that we are seeing competition with fiber we are hearing different songs being sung. I see this as another approach to either service us or we will do it our self. Seattle was just voted the leader in the gaming market, The UW has some of the best classes in Medicine in the United States but yet we get treated like we live out in the sticks.My voice means nothing so I just read up on everything and wait to see what happens but times are changing real quick and it's going to be interesting to see were things are in the next 2 years.
One more thing, if the tax payers pay for this and you are able to get a better service for say maybe $10 a month less wouldn't that about cover the difference? (from a users outlook). | |
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| | | soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA
| Re: This could happen but... My post comes across a little harsher than I intended. My apologies. I was just a little put off by the slam on city government from someone who didn't live there.
I actually think this would be a great project for the city to do. If Comcrap and Qworst can't do the job, then let us do something about it. Tacoma did this a number of years back and it seems to have benefited them. Plus this might provide enough infrastructure to keep on the forefront of the industries that you just mentioned.
Also, the other cities in the metro area should look at this. Benton County PUD did something similar in Central Washington. There's no reason some of the small burbs couldn't do the same. | |
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jslik
That just happened
Premium
join:2006-03-17
clubs:
1 edit | said by Westofhere :Our corrupt city council is going to make this happen, whether the tax payers vote "yes" or "no". Just like they make Seahawk Stadium and Safeco Field. First, it was the Washington State Legislature (and the Governor) that made those two stadiums happen, and as you know, Seahawks Stadium (Qwest Field now, ironically) was put up to a STATEWIDE public vote, and it passed. I have absolutely no love for the Seattle City Council, but they weren't the ones that built the stadiums.
If you're going to be mad at the Seattle City Council, then be mad as they're probably going to give the farm away to keep the Sonics in Seattle, but that's another forum...
As far as this fiber initiative, wait until the proposal is out to see how much this will cost taxpayers vs. benefits, then make up your mind.
In any event, this will probably be talked to death anyway, like so many other things in this region. | |
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| | waguy21
join:2006-05-08
Bellevue, WA
| Re: This could happen but... I hope seattle gets this, where i live in Bellevue i can't get Qwest only Comcast.. And i do lots of downloading files from my Work.. The 8meg connection still is not fast enought to download the large files i have.. And the upload takes even longer to send back to work.. If Seattle is able to get something like this people like me will move to Seattle just to get better service.. As for you all that say that the City Council sucks, WHY? I have found nothing they did wrong.. This maybe the best thing they have done.. As for Qwest if they get there head out of there A** and do the roight thing and give us more of what we want we would not be lookin at other things.. Look how they try to stop every other project of this kind and lost.. It will be the same here.. This is going to bring alot more people into the city if it is done.. | |
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| | | madcowusa
join:2005-03-09
Port Orchard, WA
| Re: This could happen but... I hope Seattle does the whole city in fiber. Then all the surrounding areas like mine would be pointing and wanting some too. Maybe then somebody will stick some WiMax antennae on the Columbia Tower and point in my general direction. Qwest simply can't, or doesn't want to seriously compete here and I hope Verizon gobbles them up. | |
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| MrBentor
join:2003-02-18
Seattle, WA
 ·Comcast
1 edit | ...Our corrupt city council is going to make this happen... You over estimate them. They won't even fix the potholes and come down on the bums beggars. Then again this is one of those 'feel good' issues that they love to pander to.
Remember the monorail debacle? They can't make up their minds for the Viaduct. Look at how the internally compressed I5 through the city because artificial congestion would "encourage" people to use the bus.
I have no faith in the city.
I spend all day there, every day, If I could get an equal paying job elsewhere I would. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | Fibre Everyone would be healthier and happier with more fibre in their lives.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Seattle: Fiber to the Masses
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Can broadband provide what Seattle expects of it ?