 bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | USE IT! Why SAVE bandwidth when you are in the business of selling it to a consumer that will USE it? Seems to me that if the bandwidth is utilized instead of hoarded and guarded that it will bring in more customers, which means more money, etc,etc.. | |
|  | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: USE IT! said by bamabrad  :Why SAVE bandwidth when you are in the business of selling it to a consumer that will USE it? Seems to me that if the bandwidth is utilized instead of hoarded and guarded that it will bring in more customers, which means more money, etc,etc.. no, no, no. You don't understand. the telcos don't want to SAVE bandwidth, they want to control it. If they give all that bandwidth, why, it would be like the internet or something. No, it is necessary to CONTROL the bandwidth and make sure there isn't too much of it, otherwise users wouldn't need to purchase the bandwidth a bit at a time, like the telcos want.
Besides, all that upgrading is expensive and the investors don't like it. Why upgrade when you can CONTROL what you already have and make more money? You idiot consumers didn't actually fall for that "building advanced networks" stuff, did you? | |
| | | viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
 ·Qwest.net
| Re: USE IT! said by nasadude :Besides, all that upgrading is expensive and the investors don't like it. Why upgrade when you can CONTROL what you already have and make more money? While much of what has previously been posted is hyperbole, a nugget of truth has come forth. Concentration (control) of bandwidth is a major part of the business model for bandwidth providers, and always has been. When you were on dial-up, you never noticed how it slowed down in the evening? This was because the ISP couldn't afford to purchase more bandwidth from their provider, and still make money. You know how some cable systems slow down in the evening? This is because the cable co. can't afford to increase bandwidth, and still make money. Same for wisps, BPL, etc.
Hell, even the POTS network is concentrated. You think phone switches have enough long distance capacity for everyone to make a long distance call at the same time? Hell no. That would be expensive. You gonna pay for that?
Until all bandwidth in this country is nationalized and run by the government, it is all about money, and investors, and capital, and the financial markets, and CEOs... | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: USE IT! Bandwidth should never be nationalized and run by the gubmint. That is a recipe for absolute failure. It is completely against the capitalistic ethos this country runs on. Now, I am sure you'll bring up China or some other communist country as an example, but it's a slippery slope. Once gubmint controls one thing, it's on to the next. I agree with you in that these companies are greedy greedy greedy, but nationalizing ain't the answer. | |
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LinuxJunkie
join:2005-01-19
Cyberspace | Re: USE IT! I take it you're against municipal broadband then? Contrary to what you believe, some governments (that aren't Communist) can actually provide these types of services without running it like a dictator. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay for the bandwidth. Cable companies with their coaxial network limit customer use of bandwidth. They always have and always will. They use different methods but they all do it. The limits only effect about 17% of the users, or ABUSERS as Cablevision calls them. That 17% slows down the network for the other 83%.
That leaves three choices, let the network run slowly for 100%, limit the use of 17% or upgrade the network at a great expense so 17% can use what they want. Most of us here would prefer the latter but with government regulation we will get the first. | |
| | 
kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
 ·T-Mobile US
 ·Packet8
| Re: There is no free lunch. said by batterup :Someone has to pay for the bandwidth. Cable companies with their coaxial network limit customer use of bandwidth. They always have and always will. They use different methods but they all do it. The limits only effect about 17% of the users, or ABUSERS as Cablevision calls them. That 17% slows down the network for the other 83%. That leaves three choices, let the network run slowly for 100%, limit the use of 17% or upgrade the network at a great expense so 17% can use what they want. Most of us here would prefer the latter but with government regulation we will get the first. The problem is that it's simply greed, nothing else - they don't want to invest more back to upgrade their network.
Those "abusers" - and whatever retarded stupid names come out of these greedy bloodsucker corporations - are the ones who are pushing the envelope constantly.
If they weren't, we would be still using ISDN on Compuserve. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: There is no free lunch. said by kamm :Those "abusers" - and whatever retarded stupid names come out of these greedy bloodsucker corporations - are the ones who are pushing the envelope constantly.If they weren't, we would be still using ISDN on Compuserve. Actually business has been pushing the envelope. One could get any speed fiber connection one wants. It has been that way for years. They get a guaranteed speed up and down with a one hour time to fix an outage. There are many companies that will provide that service. It costs more then $29.99 a month and there is no government interference.
There is no free lunch. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Southwest
| Follow the leader. The solution is, or rather, was, simple.
You don't offer the service until the infrastructure required to support the service is in place!
Was DSL available before the DSLAM's and backbone were in place? Um, no.
Was cable broadband available before its fiber and backbone were in place? Nope.
Can you buy a car from the dealer and drive it off the lot that hasn't been built yet? Don't think so.
Can you order a pizza from a pizza place without an oven? No. DiGiorno?
The plain and simple fact of the matter is that they are selling a service that they, as of yet, cannot offer. Make the money first, provide the service later. This is right up there with selling real-estate on the moon!
Why is it that if you or I engaged in such behavior, we would be charged, judged, and sentenced for it? But when big business does it, it's just "read the TOS"? There are much more accurate and descriptive names for these companies than "wireless providers" such as swindler, con-men, snake oil peddlers, used car dealers, etc.
There are government agencies and laws that were put in place to protect us, US citizens, from this type of abuse. But, just like with the DMCA, **AA, health care and health insurance, BPL, toxic waste dumps, even murder, if you're big business, with big money and deep pockets, you are beyond reproach.
Welcome to the United States of America Inc. Used to, the 50 stars meant 50 states. Now it's the minimum number, in billions, you have to be worth to be able to screw the living crap out of any US citizen without being hassled.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
| | johnh123
join:2002-11-19
Chicago, IL | Re: Follow the leader. The nerve of those people, offering a service that many people use and appreciate, today, for all its many faults. I don't anyone should ever offer a product isn't 100% perfect. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Follow the leader. So you're saying DSL, cable broadband, cars, and pizza are perfect?
Hardly.
But at least they are capable of supporting the product they offer.
Most of the time, you have to have something to offer before you sell it.
Howabout this, you pay me $30,000 for a new car, and I give you a pizza? Lot's of people appreciate a good pizza.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: Follow the leader. I will blast your head open if I gave you 30,000 and the only thing you offered me was a pizza.
I think that was a bad comparison since when you purchase a car it's a fixed price upfront. Not a reoccuring payment. Unless you said lease, then it would make sense. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Follow the leader. It's not a direct compare and contrast. It is a little more than obvious that the value disparity between a car and a pizza is very large and beyond the scope of the topic, but still, that's not the point.
The point is, everyone, every single one of us, should get what we pay for. It's that simple. Nothing more, nothing less. Personally, I find it extremely dubious for any company to offer a product or service for sale and use that's not only unfit for its stated purpose, but doesn't even exist in its promised form.
There is a finite point were competition stops breeding advancements, innovation, and cost reduction, and instead breeds liars, cheats, and thieves. As a society, by and large, we accept that as being part of the world we live in. And don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, that's just the way it is. Our lawmakers and law enforcers protect use for the most part from each other and from most petty shysters. Where our great country fails us, however, is when big business cheats us and steals from us. Whether it's by selling us non-existent products and services, or selling us medication that kills us, it makes no difference.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
| jlsjrf29
join:2002-05-12
San Jose, CA
| If verizon sends me notice If they send me notice they they are putting me on a metered service when in fact i signed up for the so called unlimited use service I will just pay the $175 early term fee and be done with it.
Such morons verizon is starting to become
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Did you say guru ??? | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice said by jlsjrf29 :Such morons verizon is starting to become The public demanded the break up of the Bell System. They demanded competition. Comcast a Verizon competitor has been sending out such letters for years. Every two bit company promises people services that they can't deliver and people believe them. Verizon is just playing the game. The game is called competition.
They people believed MCI/Worldcom and broke up the Bell System. Why aren't the people happy?
If you want to read about a real hustle see
»Capping Discussion Here Only - Part 7
This thread has been going on for many years. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice "Every two bit company promises people services that they can't deliver and people believe them."
People do not need to believe, it's an agreement between the customer and the business whose providing them service. If we agree that if I pay you such and such for month for unlimited bandwidth. We both agree and it's settled. If you a providing me something that I am not asking for, this was not the deal we agreed upon.
Competition means competiting with other businesses and providing services better than the other. Not simply stating they provide a service that they cannot offer and then send me a crying letter over the mail that I am using such bandwidth.
That's called false advertising, if they know they cannot provide unlimited they should sell it as metered. It takes money to make money, and same goes for any business. Not offer something you can't even offer and making a risk that the customer won't use much bandwidth.
Yes a business is all about risk, but don't send a crying letter to customers because your risk is not working to your advantage. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice said by Michieru2 :Yes a business is all about risk, but don't send a crying letter to customers because your risk is not working to your advantage. You agreed to the TOS, you are a small residential user, you can not buy a politician. The best you can do is cry on Broadband Reports.
»Capping Discussion Here Only - Part 7
It is all covered and explained in that seven part many thousand post thread. You can not say anything that has not been said before.
The fact is providers can do with out the so called ABUSERS It has worked for Cablevision for years and there has never been a legal challenge. It is in the TOS. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice Of course it is in the TOS which is why I always encourage users to read it before buying. I do not have Verizon 3G, and frankly I stay clear from Verizon.
Nor do I have 3G service, but that's still false advertising IMHO. Plus calling users ABUSERS for something that's advertised as unlimited is pretty unethical. Although whats being said on the commercial is unlimited, but reading the TOS shows it's actually metered. A conflict between advertising and TOS.
Like I stated before in another post, let ISP's offer unlimited pipe's and metered pipe's. But let it be TRUE unlimited access. Frankly a do not require 3G services and I am fine with my Nextel's iDEN data access because all I do while on the go is be on IRC, Gtalk, or simply SSH. Ping times are high but the service is reliable and it works. My servers at home which do have faster pipe's are what get all the data.
Plus nobody is crying, I am simply stating my opinion. If that constitutes as crying then you are as well. By the way I do not need a politician, nor will I ever require one because if I am to be blamed for something I do not hide behind legal papers and court system nor setup TOS papers that contradict to what I just advertised. | |
| | | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | That's all well and good except for one thing. Deceptive advertising is against the law. They don't have to offer unlimited usage if they don't want to. But they shouldn't be advertising that it is. | |
| | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | Usually you can cancel your contract without a fee within 30 days if they change the terms of your agreement. | |
| | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| quote:
If they send me notice they they are putting me on a metered service when in fact i signed up for the so called unlimited use service I will just pay the $175 early term fee and be done with it.
No, they will let you go without the ETF. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice said by itguy05 : quote:
If they send me notice they they are putting me on a metered service when in fact i signed up for the so called unlimited use service I will just pay the $175 early term fee and be done with it.
No, they will let you go without the ETF. That is now way to run a cut throat business, Verizon is acting like Ma Bell. | |
| | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA | Re: If verizon sends me notice How so? Forces the real heavy users to pay or become a burden on your competition. Both of which are good for your bottom line. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: If verizon sends me notice said by itguy05 :How so? Forces the real heavy users to pay or become a burden on your competition. Both of which are good for your bottom line. No, by not insisting on the early termination fee. | |
| | | | | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: If verizon sends me notice quote:
No, by not insisting on the early termination fee.
Still don't get it. I run a buffet. Mr 500 lbs comes in and camps out all day, gorging himself on crab legs and steak. After about an hour I'm going to ask him to leave. If he doesn't, I'm going to refund his money and kick him out.
Either way, it's a win for me as the business owner. He can go to the next buffet (and eat them into bankrupcy) and I get to cut my losses.
Same thing here - with Verizon if you're the gross over user, they will let you go no strings attatched. Since the hardware can only be used with their service, it's no loss as if you sell it, they will gain another customer with low up front costs... | |
| | jlsjrf29
join:2002-05-12
San Jose, CA
| I think a law suit should be brought against the telcos when they say unlimited in which they mean they are actually limited based on the term and conditions which sells reps dont even bother to mention when you sign up.
When I got my card I asked the sells rep " So I can download what ever I want on this connection" His reply "Yes as its unlimited service at no additional charge" when in fact that little fine print at the very bottom says differently.
I think the telcos are getting too pushy, and another thing they are worried about downloads but the push cell phone tv and so on which also takes up bandwidth, should there be a limit to how much they can watch.
--
Did you say guru ??? | |
| | 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by jlsjrf29 :If they send me notice they they are putting me on a metered service when in fact i signed up for the so called unlimited use service I will just pay the $175 early term fee and be done with it. Actually you wont have to pay the ETF because they are in effect changing your contract.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|
bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
| TOS? OK fine. They change what they want to offer for my $60 plus per month? I will change how much I will pay for limited service. I bought unlimited for a 2 year term. That means I will have it for the entire term, or they will reduce my price to fit. At the end of the term, VZW will have the option of changing what I get for what I pay, and I'll have the option of choosing to do business with them or not. I have no problem taking them to court over changes during a contract term if I get screwed. They can bring their entire building full of lawyers. I only need one. This will be a great test case. Anyone on board? | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: TOS? said by bigunk : This will be a great test case. Anyone on board? You are suggesting a Class Action Suit. IF you win this is how the award will be split. The Lawyers will get $20,000,000.00 and the members of the Class will get a months free service. | |
| | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| You're forgetting the clauses in the contract that you signed. See, it goes like this:
1) You agree to ARBITRATION ONLY, not a court case.
2) If they change the terms, you have 30 days to cancel without penalty.
3) They can terminate you at any time for any reason. All they have to do is waive the ETF.
So, you will go to arbitration, pay the fees, and probably loose.
They will change the terms, you have 30 days to cancel without penalty.
They will terminate you and waive the ETF.
Either way you will loose. | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
| 
inciter
Noobie
Premium
join:2000-08-30
Rohnert Park, CA
| Confused? Bandwidth restrictions? I have AT&T broadband never heard of such a thing....  Yes I'm trolling all over you! LOL
--
Learning something everyday makes not a Noobie, but a Professional Noobie! Like me... | |
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Unlimited is Limited
VZW...