 
icex _
Premium
join:2004-05-22
USA
clubs: | Dumb... Wouldent they have to pay extra fees if they roamed? I don't see why they'd complain.. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Re: Dumb... said by icex _  :Wouldent they have to pay extra fees if they roamed? I don't see why they'd complain.. Most of Cingular's plans are no-roaming, no-long distance. Cingular only gets stung by this if you are using a non-Cingular owned network in the USA as they have to eat the roaming costs (you still pay for international roaming).
I'm curious to see what their definition of "unprofitable" is. A couple months back on a cross-country trip, I transferred 183MB of data with my GPRS phone and made all sorts of calls in many different parts of the country!
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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icex _
Premium
join:2004-05-22
USA
clubs: | Re: Dumb... Oh, ok. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·DSL EXTREME
| Re: Dumb... I suspect that the bean counters are finally catching up...
Cingular has had the
m2m minutes always work including when roaming, as well as rollover minutes.
Most carriers take m2m to only work 'in' network (like VZW). Cingular's profits are getting chewed by allowing all the same included features available on roamers w/o any addition charges. Add in rollover minutes, and Cingular won't like it too much. This was the original basis for booting off people using more than 50% roaming in 3 months.
The crazy part is that marketing loves promoting Cingular's 'all over network' and disables the roaming indicator and tags so that you won't know when you are roaming anyways. | |
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| | | | jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Dumb... Actually, Verizon mobile to mobile calling works just about anywhere. If the phone says "Verizon Wireless" or "Extended Network" and does not have a flashing roaming indicator (triangle), then mobile to mobile calling does apply. There are only a few systems in the entire country where your mobile to mobile minutes won't count. They also don't have a 50% roaming rule, but they probably make up the costs that go to roaming on Get it Now and other services that cost money.
If you are out of the country and paying full roaming anyways, then of course mobile to mobile does not apply. | |
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| | | | bretthoward7
join:2002-01-17
Klamath Falls, OR
| VZW no longer requires you to be on their network for unlimited mobile to mobile. They changed this about 2 years ago. I remember that I made the guy in the store put this in writing and sign it on the back of my recipt when I bought new phones for my parents (who live outside of the VZW network). VZW has a great network and I'm pretty happy with their pricing schemes (when compared to other companies) the only problem that they have is their support staff is damn near useless. Every person you talk to has a different story. Before you decide on anything with VZW make sure you hear it from SEVERAL of their represenatitives. | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA
| 183 megs over GPRS? That's a whole lot of slow-lane downloading! Hehe..
I wonder if any other consequences are forthcoming. Hard caps or something similar? I just bought a Cingular 2125 Smartphone and love it, especially with the $20/month SmartPhone Unlimited data plan. I personally don't use it constantly, but that's just 'cuz downloading at under 20k/sec is painful for anything other than normal surfing and email. But I know some people do have apps that are perpetually connected. Hopefully they don't get capped.
I think it's a little lame to deny "unprofitable" people deals on phone upgrades after contract-expiration, but we're only talking once every one/two years. At least they're letting those people out of their contracts for free.
Adam | |
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| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: Dumb... You cut deals for customers who bring you profit or who are loyal.
Bending over backwards to keep customers who bog the system down and you can't turn a profit on is bad business sense in every way. | |
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| | | | magusat999
join:2005-07-08
Oakland, CA
| Re: Dumb... Your supposed to design your system so that you don't INSULT or appear to DISCRIMINATE no matter what your real intention is. Everybody knows businesses number one priority is profit, that's not something a business should use as a reason to treat customers differently - even if it is true. | |
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| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: Dumb... What planet do you live on? Business can choose not to serve customers that they can't even break even on. They should probably lay out their expectations before sending then to the chopping block, but that's there business. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Alpine :183 megs over GPRS? That's a whole lot of slow-lane downloading! Hehe.. Well... i guess you have to have some sort of fun on the road when you've seen all the scenery already. But the data service was actually quite good. I only had dropped connections in southern Texas in 3 spots along I-10.
said by Alpine :I wonder if any other consequences are forthcoming. Hard caps or something similar? I just bought a Cingular 2125 Smartphone and love it, especially with the $20/month SmartPhone Unlimited data plan. I also have a Smartphone. As for consequences, I really don't care. So they cancel my data plan or my contract, I am up $70 a month LOL.
said by Alpine :I personally don't use it constantly, but that's just 'cuz downloading at under 20k/sec is painful for anything other than normal surfing and email. But I know some people do have apps that are perpetually connected. Hopefully they don't get capped. I seriously doubt that low speed data users will be capped, as in the grand scheme of things, 183MB in a month really isn't that much data anymore. I am sure if you were leeching data using a 3G phone at full blast, they might say something as Verizon does.
said by Alpine :I think it's a little lame to deny "unprofitable" people deals on phone upgrades after contract-expiration, but we're only talking once every one/two years. At least they're letting those people out of their contracts for free. Well fortunately there is still some competition left in this industry. There's now nothing stopping people from simply taking their business elsewhere if they run into said predicament.
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC | Probably EGPRS. | |
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| | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA | quote:
183 megs over GPRS? That's a whole lot of slow-lane downloading! Hehe..
I did close to that last month on my Treo on EDGE/GPRS. | |
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| | | | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
| Re: Dumb... I saw from a google search that Cingular, VZW, and Sprint PCS settled with 32 Attorney Generals in 2004 regarding confusing roaming maps among other things.
Part of the settlement was that they would clearly let customers know where they were roaming and would thus incur extra fees.
Now Cingular doesn't have roaming fees anymore but it looks they are skating on thin ice by canceling accounts that roam too much since they aren't telling customers when they are roaming. | |
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| | | | | jimk
Premium
join:2006-04-15
Raleigh, NC
·AT&T Southeast
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Dumb... Sprint and VZW have used a roaming banner and/or solid roaming indicator to indicate that roaming charges might apply (depending on your plan) for years. Then again, I don't know when the lawsuit was filed... it could have been before this.
Part of the problem with this is that Cingular has been showing the "Cingular" banner all the time, even when roaming off their network. They don't charge for it, but they don't want their customers to roam too much. However, they don't tell customers when they are roaming. They should just implement a banner similar to what Verizon or Sprint use, or just show the name of the carrier that the phone is registered on. That would prevent a lot of confusion. I understand that some people now get an "Off Network" banner, but I don't think it is widespread yet (or if it will be).
However, forgetting about all this for a minute, it is just wrong to run a customer off like this. Just because they don't spend as much money as you want doesn't make it right to just treat them like trash. | |
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| | | | | Guy Waters
join:2001-12-04
San Francisco, CA
| Cingular does charge roaming fees, even when the phone banner reads "CINGULAR"! Cingular charged $1.99/min for calls placed from a cruise ship within the Puget Sound, while I could still see the Seattle skyline. The satellite system didn't work at all in the Pacific Ocean between Seattle and Alaska. However, no roaming charges were incurred to use Dobson's, Cellular One network in Alaska.
The other quirk with Cingular is calls made while roaming on AT&T Wireless network in Hawaii back to the US mainland were billed as INTERNATIONAL. | |
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| | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
| The only problem is the alpha tags on the phone don't tell you whether you are on or off network. Cingular advertises themselves as the "allover network". So as long as you get a signal the alpha tag says Cingular even if you are roaming on another providers network. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Dumb... Someone posted this map in another forum... this link clearly shows which is the "real" Cingular network and which one is the "fake" network.
»63.241.153.180/coverageviewer/B2B.html
You need to zoom in a few levels to see the "partner" networks.
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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| | | | Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL
1 edit | Re: Dumb... I know about the map but they have 55 million plus customers and most do not. All they see is the map on the pamphlets in the store.
Which only shows areas where you will get signal and areas where you will not.
If Cingular is going to use this new policy they should have the alpha tags tell a customer when they are roaming. But then they would no longer be able to fool customers by thinking everything is Cingular so they are not going to do this unless some Attorneys Generals or the FTC start getting antsy. | |
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Broadband Reports Vi
@charter.com | Good Posting! 
I didn't realize how small the Cingular network is in some areas until I saw that. Much of their network is through partner agreements. | |
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| | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| Cingular---at least the BS part has this in their contract: "Terms Applicable to All Plans:
Cingular imposes the following charges: a Regulatory Cost Recovery Fee of up to $1.25 to help defray its costs incurred in complying with obligations and charges imposed by State and Federal telecom regulation, a gross receipts surcharge, and State and Federal Universal Service charges. The Regulatory Cost Recovery Fee is not a tax or a government-required charge. Cingular reserves the right to terminate your service if less than 50% of your usage over three consecutive billing cycles is on Cingular-owned systems."
»www.bellsouth.com/ic/html/pop/ci···_tc.html | |
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rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Cingularly speaking, it is AT&T owned! Whadda ya expect from the Death Star: Great service or involuntary servitude? | |
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remusrm
join:2003-04-07
Northridge, CA | n/a well... they are going to hit bottom soon... way to many problems... cingular is ran just like the att... | |
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| TheGhost
Premium
join:2003-01-03
Lake Forest, IL
clubs: | Re: n/a I actually find/found it worse than the old ATTWS. I ended up switching to Verizon for work and switched my wife also, even though we are paying $2-3/month for her service. | |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
1 edit | what's the problem? All the policy says is "don't give them huge discounts on phones, and don't try hard to save them if they want to leave"
What's wrong with that?
I used to hate cingular, but my last dealings have been much better. | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| Re: what's the problem? said by icp1 :What's wrong with that? Exactly. It's not like they're kicking people out of their network. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Not profitable? That's impossible. An unlimited plan should be able to accommodate someone who uses a service all the time and still make a profit.(or at the very least break even)
Cingular pays no more for bandwidth than any other internet provider. My dsl is 15 bucks a month and I max it out all the time and do hundreds of gigs a month. The dsl company is definitely still making a profit.
Capping and customer flagging are just ways to make more profit, not ways to prevent losses. There are no losses with offering services like this, just lower profits. | |
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| itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Not profitable? quote:
That's impossible. An unlimited plan should be able to accommodate someone who uses a service all the time and still make a profit.(or at the very least break even)
Some carriers offer an "unlimited plan", but they are $2-300/mo. And, just like DSL and Cable, there are invisible caps.
quote:
Cingular pays no more for bandwidth than any other internet provider. My dsl is 15 bucks a month and I max it out all the time and do hundreds of gigs a month. The dsl company is definitely still making a profit.
But there is a fundamental difference in the technology. DSL is a dedicated circuit from your house to the CO.
With Cellular, there are a fixed number of channels/slots/etc per cell site. Those can be either voice or data. Data devices use 1 to many timeslots per connection. Have too much data and you can't complete calls. Complete too many calls and your data rate will drop. There needs to be a balance.... It's not the bandwith of the Internet, but the # of calls/data a cell site can support.
And it's not easy to just pop up a new cell site. Estimates are MILLIONS of $ for the equipment and then many thousands $ of recurring costs. Not an easy proposition.
quote:
Capping and customer flagging are just ways to make more profit, not ways to prevent losses. There are no losses with offering services like this, just lower profits.
And the stock market demands increasing profits. There can be losses - you can't connect calls, customers become dissatisfied and leave, lowering profits. Lower profits enough and a loss will ensue. | |
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| | ThomasTuttle
join:2004-07-29
West Roxbury, MA
| Re: Not profitable? Have too much data and you can't complete calls. Complete too many calls and your data rate will drop. Nope. For emergency reasons, cell sites are programmed to drop data connections when a voice call is placed, if necessary. I've been told this by a few Cingular people when I was having trouble staying on my data connection. | |
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| | | itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Re: Not profitable? quote:
For emergency reasons, cell sites are programmed to drop data connections when a voice call is placed, if necessary. I've been told this by a few Cingular people when I was having trouble staying on my data connection.
I did not know that. I figured it would do that for 911 calls (similar to how a SIM-less phone will still let you dial 911), but not for calls in general.
Thx. | |
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Vig
Thread-safe since 1997
Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA
| said by insomniac84 :That's impossible. An unlimited plan should be able to accommodate someone who uses a service all the time and still make a profit.(or at the very least break even) Cingular pays no more for bandwidth than any other internet provider. My dsl is 15 bucks a month and I max it out all the time and do hundreds of gigs a month. The dsl company is definitely still making a profit. Capping and customer flagging are just ways to make more profit, not ways to prevent losses. There are no losses with offering services like this, just lower profits. You have to remember that the costly resource on a wireless network is the air link capacity, not the back-end data transfer. The networks are designed based on an "average" usage profile, so heavy users essentially become multiple "normal" users as far as their impact on the network. Providers definitely can and do lose out with users who are on the air for a long time on a flat-fee plan.
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Visit the land of the never-setting sun | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA | We'll see if they become Verizon... and start cancelling users who use too much of the so-called unlimited services. | |
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dick white
Premium
join:2000-03-24
Annandale, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| It getting to be like insurance... The original principle of insurance was banding together large pools of people to share the risk. Some will have an "unprofitable" event, others will not. Now, if you have an accident, your insurance rate is hiked sky-high or cancelled; only the cream-puff accounts are retained. Seems to be the same business model for the cell phone and internet companies - if you actually use the service being sold as "unlimited," you are an unprofitable customer to be jetisoned at the earliest opportunity.
dw | |
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See 15 replies to this post |
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wmustudent99
join:2003-09-09
Portage, MI
| How to treat customers If you notice about half way down the document it mentions what you should say to customer who wants to leave and it not profatible. Look at the second one.
*Treat the customer politely and with respect
Shouldn't this always be done?
Does this tell us that they have other ways they treat customers? | |
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| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: How to treat customers They put that everywhere. It's like putting up a safety notice. The want to remind and reinforce it for the CSR. | |
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footballdude
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Imperial, MO
| said by wmustudent99 :*Treat the customer politely and with respect Shouldn't this always be done? Try not paying your bills and see how polite they are. I guess, technically, you wouldn't be a customer any more in that circumstance, though.
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What's certain about Darwinism is that it would take less time for (1) a single-celled organism to evolve into a human being through mutation and natural selection than for (2) Darwinists to admit they have no proof of (1) - Ann Coulter | |
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ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC
 ·Vonage
| said by wmustudent99 :Does this tell us that they have other ways they treat customers? Yes it does.
Cingular has among the worse Customer Service in Mobile Phone industry according to many consumer studies.
This only enforces the fact. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
1 edit | Too late said by Cingular :
Note: The term LTV is to be used internally only, and should never be used when speaking with the customer.
Oh well, the cat's out of the bag. | |
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BuzzDar
join:2006-01-28
West Frankfort, IL
·magicjack.com
| heres an idea so all you have to do is use to much of the service to get out of a contract? perfect if you have the service and dont want it any more just use it too much so they arent making money and they will let you out of your contract hmm sounds like an idea to me no more ETF fees sounds like to me just sign up for a data plan then just use the heck out of it for a month or two and you can get out of your contract its that easy.
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»www.inoy.net my mediacom internet complaint blog | |
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GhostDoggy
join:2005-05-11
Duluth, GA
| Cingular, Raising the Bar ... Of Your Jail Cell. Now, I cannot really complain about or even out-right bash a business for not wishing to keep low/no profit customers when there are very profitable cusotmers to be had.
But, being that Cingular is part of the phone industry and the phone industry is evil, I see this as nothing more than an evil endeavor of expectation.
BTW, remember all of the bad customer service conditions AT&T Wireless provided? Well, post-merger those Cingular, and especially those double-screwed AT&T Wireless customers, will have to sit down at the next 'screw you' family get-together on cusotmer service. | |
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linicx
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2002-12-03
United State
·CenturyLink
| Cingular: not my phone, not my friend I got tired of Cingular and their lies a long time ago. When my contract was finally up, I switched to the pre-paid plan. I prepaid $60 believing it would work anywhere in the US. And I left town. i learned later it didn't work anywhere EXCEPT in the area where I lived. The lying Cingular jerk clerk who took my money and assumed me the pre-paid worked all over thought it was funny when I complained. I've had Sprint PCS ever since.
Go to the FCC site online and lodge a complaint. It works!
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Mac: No windows, No gates, Apple inside | |
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| pepe7
join:2003-08-25 | Re: Cingular: not my phone, not my friend It states clearly in the literature that the phone will only work where Cingular has native coverage (i.e.=no roaming). You should be faulted for not verifying what the clerk told you if that's the level of service you require. | |
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| pepe7
join:2003-08-25
| Re: Blow me, Cingular! What monopoly?? They are not the only choice for cell service so hardly would they be considered a monopoly. You can shop elsewhere if you don't like something.
You are sadly mistaken in your logic. There's nobody putting a gun to Cingular's head dictating that they have to absorb each and every cost simply by being in business. Businesses should be able to at least have this degree of flexibility. Trimming the fat is part of running a successful business these days unfortunately. All of the folks whining over not getting a new phone every 2 years baffles me, really. | |
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Cingular: You Are Not Profitable
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