 amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs: | haha All I can do is laugh. This could get interesting if this tool does any good.
Score 1 for Mike. | |
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 | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA | Re: haha I agree, this is a great tool to stick it to da man! | |
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h4x0r3d
Premium
join:2003-04-13
Oxford, MS | Re: haha I second that | |
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peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC | Re: haha I third that!  | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| said by shashinka  :I agree, this is a great tool to stick it to da man! How about finding out the truth without predetermined thoughts?
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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| | | shashinka
join:2000-09-16
West Boylston, MA | Re: haha So having a tool to check is bad? Not sure I understand where you are coming from. | |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| Re: haha said by shashinka :So having a tool to check is bad? Not sure I understand where you are coming from. Nowhere did I say having a tool to check is bad but you are already going into it with an assumption of the outcome. That will taint your results leaving whatever you manage to come up with null and void.
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. | |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL | Cool but doesn't sound revolutionary to me Sounds like it's just a modified port scanner... | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Cool but doesn't sound revolutionary to me said by Dennis :Sounds like it's just a modified port scanner... Modified is the key word here. Port scanners don't have the ability to impersonate other protocols (a port scanner can send a packet to port 80, but it's not going to be an HTTP packet). This tool also seems to have some spoofing capabilities, though I'm not sure how that would work. We'll see... | |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL | Re: Cool but doesn't sound revolutionary to me yeah but is it really trying to do that, or just trying to find out if an ACL was blocking that port. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Cool but doesn't sound revolutionary to me The article only says "...or is being used for a certain type of application." That could be taken to mean by port number or by the packet signature. I'm guessing (though I don't know) that he meant the latter, since otherwise it would just be a port scanner like you said and hardly news. But we shall see. | |
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| | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Not terribly revolutionary at all. Pingplotter has similar options and has had them for awhile now:
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Just more useless internet traffic That is partially correct TK it depends on exactly how net neutrality and this tool will work. It is too early to make a judgement. | |
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| pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA | Is that you, Ed? | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
1 edit | Seems like an educated consumer is important to a healthy marketplace.
And you can blame the AT&T's of the world for starting this arms race with their suggestion of a "better busines model" for the internet. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Yes, we should only be allowed to have internet traffic that is related to politics or or stock market data... or wait, that wouldn't work because that truly is useless traffic. Think of the bandwidth that could be saved if all political internet traffic was outlawed!
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Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00" | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | It's kinda like the everything is ok alarm. All that extra traffic will flood the internet unless everything is not ok. | |
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| Mutiny32
Network Security Engineer
join:2000-07-04
Lees Summit, MO | Yeah, just like those pesky checks and balances going on in the US government. Things would just go faster if it went straight through the president for signing, no congress. | |
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| BIGHUSKER
join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN
| "Hundreds of thousands" of people using this tool simultaneously is laughable. Almost as laughable as the fact that you think it would have any noticable effect. | |
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| rgoltsch
join:2001-03-04
Caldwell, NJ | Re: voip / bittorrent Now I'm just waiting for the latest update to my TOS at Verizon stating that using a tool that disguises packets is not allowed.......OK, I'm just a little cynical
Ron | |
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avantare
Go Tribe
join:2000-02-16
Farmington, MI | Re: voip / bittorrent How could they tell? And what are they trying to hide then?
Chuck | |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
1 edit | Tool looks for "2nd class", but will it detect "FedEx" Right now pretty much all the traffic on the internet is "best effort".
Everybody concerned about "net neutrality" is moaning that a 2-tier system means somebody's data traffic will be demoted to "2nd class" traffic....
What if everybody's traffic is already "2nd class" because it's "best effort" and the "second tier" will be a higher priority "FedEx class"?
Will this app detect that?
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117+ RF channels of mixed video and data bouncing down fiber and coax for miles and you expect it to work right the first time, all the time? Do you realize how complicated this actually is??? | |
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Orwell1984
@rr.com
| Re: Tool looks for "2nd class", but will it detect "FedEx" If all traffic is already 2nd class then some will become 3rd class. All of the rhetoric I hear from telecom companies makes it sound as if there are already two networks. Build the next gen network first then try to sell space on it. If the new infrastructure is not in place yet how will they prioritize any traffic without degrading the rest? It also seems to me that the most urgent need for this expensive upgrade is the Telcos who desire to become cable TV operators. All of my broadband intensive apps work just fine on the current internet.
Your comparison to next day shippers might be apt. I have watched through tracking numbers both major shippers delay a package shipped 3day in a warehouse so it didn't arrive the next day. Wouldn't want to give someone service they didn't pay for, even if it costs more to delay it. | |
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RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
| Re: Tool looks for "2nd class", but will it detect "FedEx" said by Orwell1984 :
Your comparison to next day shippers might be apt. I have watched through tracking numbers both major shippers delay a package shipped 3day in a warehouse so it didn't arrive the next day. Wouldn't want to give someone service they didn't pay for, even if it costs more to delay it.
I've had the same thing happen to me due to deliberate misrouting. I used to order from a company in Southern New Jersey. The package was placed on a truck, driven to Newark Airport, placed on a plane and flown to the Express Company's hub, placed on another plane back to Newark, placed on a truck and driven to me at my Northern NJ UPS Store. The two flights added an extra day to the delivery time (as opposed to just moving it from an incoming to outgoing truck instead of routed it to the hub only to return it to where it was sent to the hub from).
Then there is UPS Ground which, by their own web site's delivery schedule, states that they pull all their trucks off the road and park them at 11:59PM Friday and only start to drive them again at 12:01AM Monday Morning. This is the only explanation I can think of why a package that is shipped on Monday gets delivered on Friday but one shipped on Thursday gets delivered on Wednesday (ie: Any shipment that has the package in transit over a weekend gets delivered 2 days later than one that does not involve a weekend). | |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
| said by MacLeech :Right now pretty much all the traffic on the internet is "best effort". Everybody concerned about "net neutrality" is moaning that a 2-tier system means somebody's data traffic will be demoted to "2nd class" traffic.... What if everybody's traffic is already "2nd class" because it's "best effort" and the "second tier" will be a higher priority "FedEx class"? When things actually work with the best-effort policy, what is the point of having a "priority" tier and having to pay more for it? It's like saying they're the damn US Postal Service, and they're nothing close. And to the extreme, it can be akin to saying African Americans or even non-Christians are 2nd class citizens. A priority tier would undermine the ground/main reason of the Internet.
Net-Neutrality is being pushed so anyone and everyone with or without money can have the same access to information and what-not that is out on the Internet. The rate you receive it depends on the width of the pipe from your home to your ISP, not some dumbass CEO who thinks he knows what is good for the world (lining his and his shareholders' pockets).
I honestly have to wonder how people can believe Whitacre's bullsh!t and that net-neutrality is nonsense. How can someone believe neutrality is not a good thing? Honestly, I want to know the reasons behind peoples belief of this. | |
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MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
| Re: Tool looks for "2nd class", but will it detect "FedEx" Right now everything is "best effort".
My gaming gets the same priority as...
Orwell's 911 VoIP calls on Vonage, which get the same priority as...
Joe Shmoe's porn surfing, which get the same priority as...
Jane Smith's VPN connection to work, which get the same priority as...
envoid's P2P downloads, which get the same priority as....
Jack Black's connection to an IPTV server dealing out his latest movie.
Yeah I'm sure all of those are equally important, have the same performance requirements, and there isn't ANY desire by the people or companies involved to have connections that are more consistent, have less latency or jitter in a route, and/or just a better guarantee then "best effort"
It's ok though, the net is neutral, they'll all get there eventually...
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117+ RF channels of mixed video and data bouncing down fiber and coax for miles and you expect it to work right the first time, all the time? Do you realize how complicated this actually is??? | |
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AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß
| He will end up in jail on this one Once people start using this stuff for hacking and spoofing from addresses and "attacks" he'll be done.
Not to mention that if you are saying that you are coming from an address that you are not, that's a fderal rap ala many and various sundry laws with regards to wire use. | |
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: He will end up in jail on this one Yeah, he'll end up in jail with all the gun manufacturer's and GM executives... We need a stupidest thing said in a thread award pic.. anyone got one? We can award them at the end of the day, and maybe get the moderators to attach a tally to each ID, so we can get a rough retard meter going.. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
 ·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Nice.... They play games, and this renders the game moot This could make the whole debate moot. Sounds to me that if certain providers did try and use QOS to get bribes for "premium traffic" while regulating the traffic of those who don't pay extra to lower speeds, this type of tool suggests you could "fake" your traffic to always be given high priority irregardless.
Making it moot. Well of course, until they pass a law that declares such behavior to be "terrorist" activity.
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
| Re: Nice.... They play games, and this renders the game moot said by KrK :...this type of tool suggests you could "fake" your traffic to always be given high priority irregardless. The tool is used to see if there are differences in latency between a different ports/apps. It doesn't "fake your traffic to always be given a high priority..."
said by KrK :Well of course, until they pass a law that declares such behavior to be "terrorist" activity. They'll do this to the whole BlackHat convention and any like it, labeling it a terrorist threat. | |
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| | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Re: Nice.... They play games, and this renders the game moot i think he meant that the headers that they use to get onto the hypothetical new high speed network can be replicated | |
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| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: Nice.... They play games, and this renders the game moot Exactly.. once they start prioritizing one type of traffic, just make them think all traffic is that type.. The End.
I have no idea if this would work however. | |
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envoid
join:2002-12-21
Duluth, GA
| Re: Nice.... They play games, and this renders the game moot I doubt it would work. They would probably check port src/dest, IP src/dest, and type, and only allow the packets to tier up when they met all conditions. IF it does actually allow all traffic to tier up, then I'm glad tiering has been defeated before it has even come to fruition! Screw you Whitacres of the world!!! | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | Idiot in idiot out. This will help as much a firewall logs. How many idiots look at firewall logs and call to complain about every port scan or ping request. | |
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Net Neutrality Test
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Just more useless internet traffic
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