 kdandaoc
join:2003-10-13
608052427 | Geez.... Maybe they should try the Sony batteries! | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Geez.... The bigger issue is lack of maintenance to all of those pole and pedestal mounted power supplies. Around here it's not uncommon to see the doors flapping in the wind and the batteries hanging out, restrained only by their connecting wires.
And any ComEd glitch takes the cable system out for an hour or more, probably due to said non-maintained power supplies.
But people are sheeple and chase the "savings" ghosts instead of looking for quality service...which is how we get ourselves in so many consumer messes.
Until the cable company can provide better than marginally reliable service in their core product, nobody should expect anything better in their add-ons.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | Re: Geez.... Don't blame just the cable guys here. The telcos are agressively pushing active electronics beyond the Central Office as well.
Loose power at an RT or VRAD box and/or CPE equipment and your screwed also. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Geez.... When I see the same haphazard and negligent maintenance practices from the telcos, then I'll blame them too. Currently, it's just the "cable guys" who can't keep it up.
Telcos have managed to field reliable service from RTs for decades. Cable has had decades to get it right and still can't seem to manage it. My phone service does not go out with every 10 second ComEd blip. My cable service, on the other hand, dies for hours.
Who is to blame, again?
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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| | | | Marcs37
join:2001-12-03
Niantic, CT
| Re: Geez.... said by RadioDoc  :When I see the same haphazard and negligent maintenance practices from the telcos, then I'll blame them too. Currently, it's just the "cable guys" who can't keep it up. Telcos have managed to field reliable service from RTs for decades. Cable has had decades to get it right and still can't seem to manage it. My phone service does not go out with every 10 second ComEd blip. My cable service, on the other hand, dies for hours. Who is to blame, again? Here, here!!!
AT&T Northeast has been very aggressive in changing RT batteries this year, some as little as 5 years old, mainly because DSL equipment has been added to existing SLC cabinets. During deployment of newer DSL-only RTs (UMC, Litespan), the batteries are changed as a matter of course if a SLC cabinet is adjacent. The newer batteries will power an RT with 12 SLC-5 systems and a DDM with moderate traffic for up to 24 hours before we have to roll a generator. The battery technology is getting better and better, but the electric grid...is not.
--
220....221, Whatever It Takes... | |
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| 
Consider This 22
@comcast.net | Last year I went through 2 hurricanes in Florida with no power for up to 2 weeks. BellSouth phone and DSL was up the entire time. Cable was down even after my power was restored. | |
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i5050MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI
| said by kdandaoc :Maybe they should try the Sony batteries! LOL! or maybe it's time to go up in the attic and dust off the old crank telephone?
--
Meet Bill and Karolyn at www.theslowskys.com | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Geez.... said by i5050MbSoon :said by kdandaoc :Maybe they should try the Sony batteries! LOL! or maybe it's time to go up in the attic and dust off the old crank telephone? Manual power, not bad at all. NO jk, joe six pack will take any oppertunity to show his meat by cranking the handle. | |
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flame_to_the_fire
@verizon.net | fan the flames ok, tar and feather this comment all you want!
NOW we know who will buy all those defective recalled Lithium ION batteries from deLL! | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| Throw in a bigger one... Aside from yelling "We need more green-friendly resources like solar and wind..." I just threw a APC SmartUps 3000Va ups in the closet that the Fios equipment is connected too...so when THAT thing goes, well, I think I am in need of OTHER things (water, essential AC...)
When the Fios tech was installing theirs, I asked if I could have it tie-in to mine and he smiled, that will be just fine! | |
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| 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Throw in a bigger one... said by cableties :Aside from yelling "We need more green-friendly resources like solar and wind..." I just threw a APC SmartUps 3000Va ups in the closet that the Fios equipment is connected too How does a battery fit in with "green friendly resources?"
Manufacturing and disposing of batteries is one of the worst things you can do to the environment.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| Re: Throw in a bigger one... So give us another source for storing power that isn't bad for environment.
Exactly.
(yes, true. You never seem to hear that batteries have lead, acid, and other heavy metals or incinerating chemicals. Atleast with APC, when I get replacements, they come with PrePaid UPS tag to ship the battery to recycler) | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Throw in a bigger one... said by cableties :So give us another source for storing power that isn't bad for environment. True, there isn't an environmentally friendly alternative to batteries, but that doesn't mean that by default they should be included in the "green friendly" category.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
 ·Charter Pipeline
 ·Vonage
| Re: Throw in a bigger one... Regarding the shift, I agree but architecturally, it's easier to regulate and control the pollution produced at a few power plants (or other factories) than it is to control the pollution on millions of cars or personal generators.
That said, the power plants/factories are very well represented from a lobbying perspective. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by ricep5 :There are no alternative power sources that don't pollute. Even solar cells and wind generators and water turbines create pollution when they are built. You simply push the pollution to another locale. Electric cars push the pollution over the the power plants Hybrid cars push the pollution to the battery factories Solar cells push the pollution to the silicon distillers Wind generators use aluminum, which again pushes pollution back to a smelter or power plant. A gravity fed water wheel is about as close as you can get to pollution free energy. So how do we reduce pollution, birth rate limits or human extermiantion? | |
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| | | | | ricep5
Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast Formerly ..
·AT&T CallVantage
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Throw in a bigger one... Depends on how you define pollution.
Per Al Gore, CO2 (carbon dioxide) is the predominant form of pollution, yet human activities only create 3% of the worlds output of CO2. The rest is done by nature.
So do you suppress human activities or nature? Technically, by Big Al's definition the Earth would have to cease to exist if pollution was to stop.
An inconvenient truth perhaps? | |
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| | | | Tom517
join:2006-07-13
Greenville, SC
| "A gravity fed water wheel is about as close as you can get to pollution free energy."
And of course, most power companies are trying to discontinue hydroelectric generation in favor of fossil fuel and nuclear facilities. I guess it's OK if the salmon glow when they swim upstream. | |
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fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo | I suspect super caps are better but probably only marginally.
--
I'd kill for a Nobel peace prize! | |
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michaelk
join:2003-01-01
Cincinnati, OH | Time Warner Digital Phone I have an enormous UPS (12 hours), but it does not make a difference, when their system goes down so does the phone & roadrunner. I thought they had some sort of backup on their end, or are we just screwed in my area? Any feedback? | |
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| NGOwner
join:2000-11-21
Leawood, KS
·LINGO
| Re: Time Warner Digital Phone We recently had a power outage in my neighborhood.
About 45 - 60 minutes. I've got RR and Lingo. Cable modem and gizmo on a homebuilt UPS (2 marine batteries and an inverter/charger). The UPS also powers my sump pump.
No problems. Maintained sync and dial tone throughout.
[NG]Owner
--
It is impossible to create an idiot-proof product. Humanity is simply too adept at churning out better idiots. | |
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| 
Hall
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
| I thought their network was supposed to have battery backup too. Admittedly, what is the point though ?? For 95% of people with cable tv, digital phone, or RR, most do NOT have battery backups. Your computer won't work, nor will your TV.
You might want to call them about that. It will be hard to explain to the 1st level people you talk to though... | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
·Speakeasy
| Re: Time Warner Digital Phone While not affected by that particular blackout, I echo that resort for others. That's one reason I think dialup will have a fairly long, although little-used, life - simple backup.
Who provides such services for ISPs like SpeakEasy? I dunno, but I'm sure glad it's part of my package.
AOL should look into that, if they don't already, as a use for their assumed thousands of modem banks....as backup for broadband providers...
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | people and comanies need back up generators | |
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macrospect
All The Little Stuff
Premium
join:2005-08-25
Doylestown, PA
·Comcast
| Re: people and comanies They actually do exactly that where I live. If the lines loose power they will actually drag small generators out and chain them to the pole until the power is restored. I am not sure if its Verizon or Comcast that does this, but I am leaning towards Verizon. | |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Telco vs Cable VOIP Bell got this all figured out decades ago with POTS. The cable companies are still stumbling along because a solid power standby solution is very expensive and provides nothing to help profits. | |
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| Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | Ya, that's why they are deploying fiber and VDSL solutions that have less and less battery backup.
This article smells. | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Telco vs Cable VOIP DSL is still a line powered solution. Fiber to the premise isn't POTS. FTTN still has major back-up systems. | |
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| | | Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | Re: Telco vs Cable VOIP DSL and FTTN ( another form of DSL ) both have CPE equipment that is NOT line powered. Also I promise you the backup power solution in a VRAD cabinet is not nearly as robust as an RT or CO. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Telco vs Cable VOIP said by Enlightener :DSL and FTTN ( another form of DSL ) both have CPE equipment that is NOT line powered. Also I promise you the backup power solution in a VRAD cabinet is not nearly as robust as an RT or CO. It is as robust as a RT. | |
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DrewCapu
Giant Diehard
join:2001-12-19
California
clubs: | Exactly why I still keep POTS During an emergency there's a better chance POTS will still be up. | |
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darren3179
join:2001-12-14
Carrollton, TX
| network backup VoIP still not a real viable option for people who really depend on the landline. I work for a cable company and we use voiceports to provide phone which are backed up from our network. Thats the main reason we loose very few customers to Time Warner and Comcast VoIP. | |
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Bobcat
Verizon blows, Cablevision sucks
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ | 12 hours? Fios users have similar concerns, as the Fios backup battery lasts about 10-12 hours. 12 hours is pretty good. The last time I checked, Cablevision's batteries in my area lasted less than 1 hour. | |
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| averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
edit:
August 17th, @01:38PM
| Re: 12 hours? Darn decimal point keeps moving. . ..... .. ...... ..Arrrhhhggg keep still .. .. ....... .. ... . . . . . . . | |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| HA HA Get a real phone If you want your phone to work during emergencies or long term power outages then you need POTS.
Don't count on your cellphone to bail you out. Last time there was an actual emergency in our town all the cellphones were jammed. They were even begging people on the radio to not use their cellphones so the police and fire departments could use them. | |
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| lew_jean
join:2005-05-13
Marietta, GA | Re: HA HA Get a real phone A lot of the cable head ends are backed up by a UPS system and gen,I will still keep my DSL and POTS line, down 4 times in 4.5 years max down time 1hr (DSLAM problem) and I run 6.2M down 485 up | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
August 17th, @02:09PM
| Re: HA HA Get a real phone said by lew_jean :A lot of the cable head ends are backed up by a UPS system and gen, But it's not the headend that has the problem. If you have the cable companies "digital phone" service or FIOS. They put a little box in or on your house that has a battery in it.
That is where the problem lies. How do they keep thousands of batteries on the side of thousands of homes from going dead after 12 hours even if the headend is running on a generator? | |
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| | | averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: HA HA Get a real phone Don't these batteries have a shelf life?
They were installed at a similar time, you would expect all to fail approximately 5 years out ALL at a similar time.
All the while the capacity of the battery going down down down.
That is going to be one big battery change out.
I am sure that they have included that in their budget and will not have to add an extra fee to cover the battery change out.  | |
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| | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
August 17th, @02:10PM
| Re: HA HA Get a real phone said by averagedude :That is going to be one big battery change out. I am sure that they have included that in their budget and will not have to add an extra fee to cover the battery change out. Don't count on it. I work for the worlds largest supplier of UPS's for the cable industry.
Believe it or not there are still cable companies out there that do not even have batteries in the UPS's currently on the poles because they did not even figure the cost of the batteries into the inital cost of the UPS's.  | |
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| jandir
join:2002-05-27
Oakton, VA | My POTS line lasts only for about 4 hours during a power outage. About as long as my UPS that powered my cable modem, router, sunrocket gizmo and my cordless phone base unit. | |
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iotastorm
join:2006-01-24
Florissant, MO
·AT&T DSL Service
| Gets POTS ! In St.Louis, after those really violent storms came thru and left most of without power for 6 Days, We never lost Phone service.
Most of my friends on Cable/VOIP were down after the 24hrs and coming over to my place to use my phone.
Battery back-ups mounted on the poles for cable are only meant to keep up the system up for about 24 hours, not long extended outages. | |
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| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | Re: Gets POTS ! If it lasted 24 hours then your cable system has good maintenance. Most MOS are lucky if they get 3-4 hours. | |
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boogi man
join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
clubs: | batteries few years back we had a city wide+ blackout and i saw 3-4 comcast guys running small gensets into the pedistal boxes to keep things going. seemed like that was better than an f-u | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| POTS see... I have a question: with the advent of Verizon selling off its POTS in VT, NH and ME, and since those areas get some nasty storms (eg. winter ice), who is going to maintain the lines?
If everyone thinks that POTS is reliable now under most emergencies, what happens when its sold off to some 3rd party that cares not about backup power...? | |
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| | keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Vonage
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Re: POTS see... Have you ever tried to invoke that law?
The telco is required to keep services up but I switched from POTS years ago after I did not have dial tone for weeks at a time off and on. My whole neighborhood had this problem, Verizon simply did not want to address it (and the local techs told me the reason was they were putting there resources on getting DSL in the area).
Filed a complaint, etc etc, guess who wins that one.
File a lawsuit, guess who can afford some really good lawyers.
So do laws really apply to the telcos?
Have you seen the news lately? | |
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VansHSI
join:2005-01-29
America | Future Upgrades I imagine after a few more years of Cable Co.s stealing phone numbers you'll see the government step in and force the cable co.s to fix the problem so it is equal to pots from a power perspective. | |
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| Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
| Re: Future Upgrades said by VansHSI :I imagine after a few more years of Cable Co.s stealing phone numbers you'll see the government step in and force the cable co.s to fix the problem so it is equal to pots from a power perspective. they should also force to have real 911 as well | |
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| | 
Jim Gurd
Sorry Roger, you tiger now.
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI
·Comcast
| Re: Future Upgrades said by Joe12345678 :they should also force to have real 911 as well VoIP provided by the cable company does because they know the physical location of your drop. Unfortunately they (and also FIOS users) are limited by the battery life in a power failure.
--
Correlation does not imply causation. | |
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elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: Future Upgrades but as with FiOS if the UPS can last 12 hours i think if the powers out after that long youll have other more pressing issues then your phone and theres always your Cellphone | |
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cableman0327
join:2004-10-10
Westminster, MD | Book & A Flashlight We rely on to much in our lives. Until Congress classifies the cable company as an utility co. Nothing will change and they'll all ways be a Entertainment Company..nothing else. | |
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| 
David
Last man standing
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Book & A Flashlightsaid by bogey780 :Bell got this all figured out decades ago with POTS. The cable companies are still stumbling along because a solid power standby solution is very expensive and provides nothing to help profits. You damn skippy they did, that's the first thing I noticed after a few hours of the power being out at my house here in STL (granite city) I still had phone service. True it had some small static at first (suspect batteries did not kick over completley till later) and cleared up in a few hours. The whole time I was able to make a phone call albiet a small amount of static. The static that was there was not audible enough to make voice conversation difficult. When I drove around the city that thursday I saw a few cingular trucks (headed east on I-270) towing generators and gasoline in the back. I also saw a few bell trucks (the ones with electric generators built in the trucks) rolling to RT's and plugging them in.
said by iotastorm : In St.Louis, after those really violent storms came thru and left most of without power for 6 Days, We never lost Phone service. Most of my friends on Cable/VOIP were down after the 24hrs and coming over to my place to use my phone. Battery back-ups mounted on the poles for cable are only meant to keep up the system up for about 24 hours, not long extended outages. You were not alone, I had 5 people come up and ask to use my phone. Funny they wanted me shortly after that to hook them up with service. Hell they did not even know I was an at&t employee till they came down. They were impressed I had phone service and was using a small generator to get back on the internet. They all had charter phones, and they all died about 24 hours after the initial power outage.
said by elios :but as with FiOS if the UPS can last 12 hours i think if the powers out after that long youll have other more pressing issues then your phone and theres always your Cellphone Agreed, most people start worrying about the refrigerator, and deep freezes. I was lucky to borrow a generator within 24 hours after I went down. I was on a list for a generator (number 11) and the lady at lowes in O'fallon, IL had sold the 13 that were on the way to STL in a truck. That's when I figured it was kind of pointless. needless to say my parents had friends of the family who had a coleman Powermate 4000 (big unit) and it with a generator I bought from wal-mart (I would end up returning this because it burned itself up!) I was sitting pretty for a while. I used the small generator to power up my computers in the basement and used the big generator to do the TV, DVD, DirecTV, Air conditioner (window unit) a couple of fans, and the freezer in the basement. The unit did just fine for what I needed. The unit was louder than F__k, and the neighbor was going to consider installing a muffler, but it did fantastic.
said by cableman0327 :We rely on to much in our lives. Until Congress classifies the cable company as an utility co. Nothing will change and they'll all ways be a Entertainment Company..nothing else. Exactly... they don't have to supply critical services. The really don't have to keep the backups going. It's nice if they can, but there is nothing (least not currently on the books I think) that says they have to. My brother's mother-in-law learned that the hard way with charter. She was about to switch and had my number to order service if they did not get it back up, and her neighbor that works for charter told her to give him a chance and they restored it.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!
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majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY | hmm I like how everybody is harping on the cable cos and not saying anything about verizons fios.
That uses a battery in a power failure too.
Can power even be sent over the cable wire and not fry the cable modem ? | |
|
cableman0327
join:2004-10-10
Westminster, MD
| Cable Lines No...Power is stopped at the tap, in the ped or the pole, any voltage on the drop or outlets in the home can & will fry the tv's and modems...Are Back-Ups, last about 6 hrs, my in house ups last about 2, long enough for me to finish what I'm doing and shut down... | |
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| antonio010
join:2002-11-24
| Re: Cable Lines That's not true, in some areas where Cox for instance offers phone service via NIU's the drops do carry voltage. They use either multireach or power passing taps and can carry up to 90 volts. Typically power is terminated at the NIU and isn't used for anything else. | |
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tthnow
join:2006-06-07
Oakland, CA | Complaining About Batteries? I would give a liver for FIBER! I could care less about making phone calls are what so ever. | |
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rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage
| Timely Topic I live in the St. Louis area and about a month ago we had a large complex of thunderstorms with 70+mph straight-line winds hit the entire area. At one point, over 500,000 households were without power. About three days later, a second round of storms finished off anyone who still had power and some folks were without power for 10 days.
Now AT&T (formerly SBC) is running ad after ad claiming every 11 seconds a telephone customer returns because unlike alternatives, their telephone service doesn't require electricity to work.
There's certainly some truth to this but my area did not lose power, did not lose cable and my Vonage VOIP account kept working. Granted, if I had lost power I would be without service but our local electric provider claimed that this was the worst outage they have ever experienced -- making this a very unlikely situation.
I think this is similar to the cable companies claiming satellite goes out whenever it storms. Again, there is some truth to this statement but as a former satellite customer for five years, whenever the satellite went out, you wanted to go to the basement because within minutes a really bad storm was about to arrive. I actually kind of liked the warning. It was like having my own personal radar.
As always, marketing is bending the truth. Reality is somewhere in the middle and the ILECs will have the same problem as they deploy fiber and remote electronics. I think it's just something we'll all have to live with -- unless WiMax really proves to be a wire/fiber/cable killer. You'll still need energy to run the receiver but at least the infrastructure will be unaffected by poor maintenance or upstream power outages. Certainly the tower would suffer power problems but that's a centralized problem and it should be easy to provide generator backup. | |
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| wev567
join:2006-02-25
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Timely Topic Just because you didn't lose power in *this* storm, that doesn't mean you are unlikely to *ever* lose power. Depends on how the storm travels. Even a small storm could knock you out if it travels the right way...
In this case, the advertising is dead on. Maybe not the best selling point, but POTS is extremely reliable. Big, huge, honking back up batteries, generators, even fuel cells in some COs. Huge diesel tanks, will run for weeks. Most RTs have batteries, some vaults even have their own generators, and the techs know when and where to go to recharge or replace dying batteries. Is this infallible? Hell no. But it will work for a very very long time. Some localized cable failure may occur, but yer weakest link is the drop directly to yer house and the CPE inside. Cable cannot compare in any way. Reliable phone service is a $12 POTS line and a simple trimline phone. (I like my 20 year old AT&T model 210)
Doubtful any future technology can or will ever be built strong enough to meet this standard. Does that make them bad? No, it's just the era we live in now. | |
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| | dn0
join:2005-07-05
USA
| Re: Timely Topic Where the f_bomb can I find a $12 POTS line?
Cox here is 100% generator backed up.
The voice ports / NIUs at the customer premise are line powered (~90VAC) and will stay up indefinitely as long as the generator will run.
The vast majority of them are natural gas fed, otherwise propane.
All remote hub sites and the head end are backed up by UPS and dual diesel generators. | |
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| | |
Telecom's Weak Link: The Battery
