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story category LA Muni-Fi Filters Smut, P2P
Audible Magic gear at the MPAA's request...
(old news - 01:50PM Wednesday Aug 23 2006)
tags: Fileswapping · wireless · municipal
Culver City, California was the first Los Angeles municipality to offer the public a free all-access Wi-Fi network. They're also the first to ban all porn and p2p from that network, according to an announcement made yesterday. The city says they've added Audible Magic's CopySense Network Appliance to filter illegal and "problematic content" from their network.

The push to clean the network of all the naughty bits came from the MPAA in part, as three major movie studios call Culver City home. Dan Glickman, president of MPAA, praised the move.
"We congratulate Culver City for taking the initiative to implement content filtering on their network. Wireless Internet access can provide the public with tremendous opportunity to make business conducted on computers even more portable. Audible Magic's filtering solution will help safeguard system users from being subject to illegal files."
According to John Richo, Director of Information Technology for Culver City, the city was concerned with taxpayer dollars funding such activity. "This type of content defeats the purpose of the wireless hotspot," says Richo.

Once installed, the Audible Magic Copysense device, developed in part by a group of ex-Yamaha audio engineers, digs through all network traffic looking for legit audio or video fingerprints in an effort to weed out copyrighted files based on a master database. The device can also throttle back p2p bandwidth, or prevent p2p altogether.

The only problem is, last we checked, the hardware is easily bested by encryption and some flavors of basic compression. The latest Bit Torrent clients, such as Azureus, have incorporated encryption to help get around the traffic shaping being done my a number of cable ISPs.

Related:
  1. Lack of Funds Shuts Down Wireless Oakland
  2. NYC Wireless Network Tackles Both Roadkill and Terrorism
  3. Napster Aims To Make Profits In Mobile Music Market
  4. Georgia Town Picks Clearwire For Muni-WiMax
  5. Philly Wi-Fi Network Use Skyrockets
  6. Fresno Wants Citywide Wireless But Doesn’t Want To Pay
  7. MetroFi Antennas Could Cost $60,000 to Remove
  8. FL Man Attempts to Build Citywide WiMax Network
Forums » LA Muni-Fi Filters Smut, P2P
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Post a:

Mr Anon

@il.us

Post Title

I was about to say the Pron stuff was a bit over but then I though that if its govermentially funded then they have to do that for children at least I think, and with the nature of the network less you can garuntee that they aren't kids you have to filter everyone...

Still, boo!

P2P is another animal and I can understand even if personally I'd dislike it.

God
Having no fun in Vilseck Germany
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Taji, Iraq
clubs:

Re: Post Title

there is always a way around this sort of blocking ....

Mr Anon

@il.us

Re: Post Title

Ture, and infact at my current Job I created an inhouse way to do so and its even been used officially. We are looking into a new filter which will help filter less or not at all for those that need it but my work around still won't need its approval :P

dumb nut butt

@comcast.net

Re: Post Title

Well, great for you. Pat yourself on the back, or better yet, kick yourself in the butt. If you are at work hacking the system, I hope you get caught, fired and pay a very heft fine.
Why do you believe You have any right to circumvent your work system? You did not pay for nor buy into your employers network, but you feel you should be able do as you please. One very important word for You "IDIOT"

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
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Netcong, NJ
clubs:
said by Mr Anon :

govermentially funded
Hello, you mean TAX PAYER FUNDED. Get your hand out of my pocket.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

~ sigh ~ when will governmental representatives learn. You can't use tax payer money to fund this network then sensor it. Did they learn NOTHING from the library issues?

Library - filters are on by default but must be removed when requested.

Public funded WiFi: This is a public service, funded by public money, so it must CERTAINLY adhear to the 1st ammentdment right.

How long will it take before this so-called filter is removed?

KrK
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

This is why the Muni should just provide the NETWORK and other service providers provide the content.

That way, the Goverment doesn't have to get all involved in censorship/copyright issues and endless lawsuits.

Why is it so hard for people to figure out... sheesh!

Build an awesome network, but stick to the network! Let other service providers and content creators and users do their own thing.
--
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batterup
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Re: Post Title

said by KrK See Profile :

This is why the Muni should just provide the NETWORK and other service providers provide the content.

That wouldn't work with WiFi. A fiber network has virtually unlimited bandwidth; voice, video and internet. WiFi can only handle one ISP.
cracklingice

join:2002-01-21
Naples, FL
Still should have to have an opt out by proving you're of legal age and wish to view such content. Otherwise, it's biggotry with a kids face pasted on top.

John Galt
Spricket24
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Oceanside, OR

No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

I guess...!

I bet this plays out in the courts.
--
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calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

This will play out in the courts. Government entities have considerably less leeway in filtering content than a private ISP would have.

This will probably prove to be a weapon for the "bad guys" in two respects:

First, those opposing muni WiFi will use the ensuing court battles as a reason for cities not to deploy muni WiFi.

Second, those opposing net neutrality will say that they type of "moral" filtering being done here would not be allowable if a net neutrality provision were in place, so we shouldn't have net neutrality.

Both arguments are seriously flawed, but will be used against the forces of reason anyway.

calvoiper
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John Galt
Spricket24
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Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

said by calvoiper See Profile :

Government entities have considerably less leeway in filtering content than a private ISP would have.
There you have it...
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
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filtering the porn could see a court case but preventing P2P cannot be dragged into court. simply because they could claim they are preventing network saturation caused by p2p.
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calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
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·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

If they do it correctly, just throttling bandwidth without regard to application, they are probably on solid legal ground. If they single out one application or protocol, the case becomes much less defensible.

The legally acceptable solution has to be tailored to the problem--be it bandwidth consumption or whatever.

calvoiper
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emptywig
Huh? What?
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Pasadena, TX

They could say they want to filter porn because they don't want people j**king o** in public. I'm serious...do we really want people looking at porn in the coffee shop or on the bench outside the toy store?

Don't get me wrong, I like porn as much as the next guy, but not in public. Go home and look at that stuff. Free speech is not an unlimited right.

wig

rf_engineer

join:2003-08-04
USA

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

said by emptywig See Profile :

They could say they want to filter porn because they don't want people j**king o** in public. I'm serious...do we really want people looking at porn in the coffee shop or on the bench outside the toy store?

Don't get me wrong, I like porn as much as the next guy, but not in public. Go home and look at that stuff. Free speech is not an unlimited right.

wig
Exactly. Porn != Free Speech.

It's a free network. If you need a porn fix that bad, go buy a connection at your home and do what you want with it. If someone really needs porn while in the park or in a coffee shop, they probably have some issues that need to be addressed by a professional.

As far as P2P being blocked, that's life. You get what you pay for on a free network, and this network is a shared resource. I know someone will bring up the "I'm a taxpayer!" argument, but it's still essentially a free network. If they want to limit access to preserve bandwidth for more productive uses, fine. Your tax dollars fund parks, but that doesn't mean you can go there and dig it up for minerals or play loud music and use it in a way that detracts or limits other users' use of the resource.

calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

I think your point is well taken regarding any private ISP offerings (Google's Mountain View, CA effort comes to mind) but there is a different set of standards which apply to publicly funded enterprises.

If a publicly funded network blocks some websites, there will be court review of the choices made--more accurately, there will be court review of the process by which such choices are made.

As for what people do in public "in the coffee shop or on the bench outside the toy store", most of this usage currently is from privately funded networks (because there just aren't that many public networks yet.) Those networks are not required to either block or allow porn--it's entirely up to the provider at this point.

calvoiper
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

But if there is a citywide Wi-fi network, I can still go into that coffe shop and use the city wifi instead.

There is just no way one can reasonably assert that we must allow porn in public, funded by the public. You have to balance the rights of the individual with the rights of the public.

It is illegal (as in its a punishable offence - really against the law) for children to view porn, so it just seems unreasonable to assert that we must allow access to porn in public spaces. If I'm on a laptop surfing porn on the public sidewalk outside a toystore, is that really OK? Do we really have to allow that? Or next to someone's mom at the Arby's?

Of course not. No reasonable person (even an open-minded, pro-speech, porn-positive person like myself) would try to make that assertion.

I have never bought the argument that libraries could not filter porn, period. There is no government right to be supplied porn. Libraries never stocked porn magazines, why should they allow porn on their computers? Its been a nonsensical argument from the beginning.

Cheers,

wig

calvoiper

join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

The question of what traverses a Wi-Fi network and what images a person may or may not display in a public are really separate questions.

While I agree that people shouldn't gratuitously display porn in public, this applies whether you're looking at a PC screen or you're looking at a dirty magazine.

Since there are plenty of "private" places where people will be able to surf a "public" Wi-Fi network, there isn't the legal justification to block the whole network just to prevent some perv from sitting in a coffee shop and displaying dirty pictures. Heck, if that is really his goal, then it's easy enough for him to download the images beforehand and then display them off disk. Whether or not the perv has Wi-Fi, public or private, in the coffee shop really doesn't matter.

Saying you must filter porn on any Wi-Fi network to prevent "public display" is like saying you must search every piece of carry-on luggage for porn to prevent the "public display" of dirty pictures on an airplane. In each situation, it's not the existence, transmission, or possession of the porn that is the problem--it's the gratuitous display of it that is the problem. That needs to be addressed directly, not indirectly by blocking information transfer.

calvoiper
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX

Re: No Free Speech on Free Wi-Fi

True true. All true. I agree with everything you said.

And I still think it's ok to filter the porn.

The problem is, there's no real way to address, directly, the problem of gratuitous (or even inadvertant) display. There's no way to keep people from looking over a shoulder. Its hard to hide the contents of a 15" bright color display (or the bad porn music )

There's no porn on cable or broadcast (I don't mean PPV-just regular cable).

I think that ultimately, this is just a matter of personal feeling. Like I said above, I agree with you on all your points, and if I were fifteen years younger (not commenting on your age - just mine ) I would probably be against filtering the porn. But experience tells me that we don't need to be servicing someone's porn jones on a public network. Let them get it from a private provider. I'm fine with that.

Reasonable folks can disagree.

Cheers,

wig

guitarzan
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·epix

said by John Galt See Profile :

I guess...!

I bet this plays out in the courts.
Wow, John, you just opened that hidden can of worms most people didn't see coming until now. No porn, no P2P, no political opposition allowed, restricted freedom of speech, as in banning blogs. This sure looks to get ugly in a hurry.
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JSRoman
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Users can't complain

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
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hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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Long Beach, CA

Re: Users can't complain

who get's their warez/porn downloads from wifi anywayz?
viperlmw
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Re: Users can't complain

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

who get's their warez/porn downloads from wifi anywayz?
Freeloaders.

anno3

@comcast.net

Re: Users can't complain

Any one that uses free wi-fi are freeloaders. You are paying tax to have it. The taxes is being paid by people that don't even have a computer or lap top. I don't need it or do i use it so my taxes should be used for this purpose

iwonder

@67.98.x.x

Would be an interesting test too see how effective Audible Magic is at dealing with the encryption built into Azureus or uTorrent.

Also would be nice to test downloading legal shows like Diggnation, Systm, or TWIT to make sure they are working fine. If not a few hundred calls to tech support may be in order for their "broken" filtering.

Wonder how Audible Magic would deal with traffic encapsulated in SSH or VPN. Wish I lived there so could try to "test" it. I’d bet less that 1 day for workarounds to arise.

dadkins
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said by hopeflicker See Profile :

who get's their warez/porn downloads from wifi anywayz?
Wireless laptop, hello!

Bet I could get pr0n across that wifi!
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hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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Long Beach, CA

Re: Users can't complain

nothing like watching your hi-rez porn video and having a flakey wifi connection.
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Toadman
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said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
Yeah, like looking into your neighbors window. I do believe LA is where most of the Porno's are taped anyway.

My 2nd thought - A bum would have to have a computer to download the stuff off of the wifi network, the library gives it out for free already, not much has changed.
ossito16

join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN

said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
I agree. Why do people want to argue something that is free?

batterup
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Re: Users can't complain

said by ossito16 See Profile :

said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
I agree. Why do people want to argue something that is free?
It is not free, it is paid for with tax dollars. Taxes are not free. Well I guess if you still live with your parents taxes are free.

TK Junk Mail
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edit:
August 23rd, @01:48PM

said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
I agree. With government money comes government regulation. The two go hand in glove. Don't like it? Go elsewhere.
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hopeflicker
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Re: Users can't complain

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
Iagree. With public tax money comes government regulation. The two go hand in glove. Don't like it? Go elsewhere.
i fix 4u
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fiberguy
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I have to disagree with you, friend. It's not "government" money. It's the people's money. And when that money is in play, THEY have to live with in the regulations of the law. In this case, they are taking money from the people, providing a service and then putting illegal restrictions on it. This has already been played out in the libraries.

Dictating speech by the government isn't acceptable. What's to stop the democratic controlled government from blocking political blogs of their opponent?

batterup
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Re: Users can't complain

said by fiberguy See Profile :

In this case, they are taking money from the people, providing a service and then putting illegal restrictions on it. This has already been played out in the libraries.

The libraries are different. They are tax payer funded but they are not run by politicians, they are independently run like school boards. Libraries have fought long and hard to avoid any censorship.

Politicians slop at the public trough and will cave in to the special interest with the deepest pockets.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
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Re: Users can't complain

Government is government. Tax money is tax money. ANY purcahse by the people's money is subject to the fundimental rules of the land... that good o' piece of paper that Bush says is "just another piec of piece of paper."

"Politicians slop at the public trough and will cave in to the special interest with the deepest pockets."

And I agree. And when the courts have to slap them on the wrists for breaking the law, those judges are, today, called "activist judges".. why? Do they legislate from the bench? eh, SOME have... on both sides.. but today, activist judges = "we're the party in power, we can make all the rules, how dare you challenge us - we don't need you in politics. Stick to handling personal civil and corporate battles and stay out of the law".. right?

If it has sticking power, which it could, it just means, like many other illegal government activities to date, it will just mean that the people didn't think it was important enough to fight not realizing that by not fighting it they are allowing presidence to prevale for future cases of this wonderfull snowball we call a government.

Sad - from the original constitution is born hundreds of thousands of laws taking away our freedoms in the name of "what ever here"...
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Users can't complain

"Activist" judges protecting us against politicians is a novel concept, It was the "activist" members of the Supreme Court who said it was O.K. for the government to take your private property and give it to some developer who has more political clout than you.

Fatal Vector

join:2005-11-26
"It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere."

That's not the point. The point is that it's a government entity censoring a public network for whatever reason.

Duhhhhh.
amishboy

join:2004-05-28
Charleston, SC

A lawsuit on either side

Well, it's illegal to broadcast indecent material over broadcast radio or tv bands. Part of the FCC's (a GOVERNMENT agency) job is to enforce these rules. Is it censorship? Yes. Is it in the public interest? Yes, because the content is accessible by kids.

Whereas there will be First Amendment suits against filtering, consider the alternative... a publicly-funded, universally available mechanism that can deliver illicit content to children... Censorship has a place, a very gray place with fuzzy borders. Freedom isn't free if there aren't checks in place to prevent one person's freedom (of having and transmitting legitmate porn) from inhibiting another's (a child's right to not be exposed to this material before he or she can handle it).
cracklingice

join:2002-01-21
Naples, FL

Re: A lawsuit on either side

If a child is searching out porn, they're ready to handle it. Porn does not just magicly pop up on the screen.

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
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Re: A lawsuit on either side

said by cracklingice See Profile :

If a child is searching out porn, they're ready to handle it. Porn does not just magicly pop up on the screen.
You're kidding right. Porn pops up all the time on PC's that have gotten a virus. It also pops up if you mistype 1 letter of a domain name and hit 1 of these porn sites that sit on domain names similar to popular mainstream domain names. Are most people that get porn on their screen looking for it? Of course. But don't say porn doesn't show up for users who aren't looking for it.
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kinabrew

join:2002-02-01
Of course they can complain. Nothing from the government is really free. If they're paying tax money for the service, then they should be able to transmit whatever legal content they want using the service.

ssj4android
Redefining Reality

join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI

Re: Users can't complain

Indeed. The article says the filter only blocks illegal content, which is hard to argue against. Anyone know if it's true? But if the taxpayers want porn, they should be able to have porn.
kinabrew

join:2002-02-01

Re: Users can't complain

Since no one's created a computer program with enough accuracy to block 100% of spam, I doubt that anyone has created filters which block all illegal content or block only illegal content.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
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said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
It is not free, it is paid for with tax payers dollars. There is no free lunch.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

said by JSRoman See Profile :

It is free, if you want to get your psp or porn fix I guess go elsewhere.
Really? Free? ~ sigh ~ Can you PLEASE tell me ANYTHING in this country that is "free?"

The government does not have it's own money. It does not generate wealth, it just redistributes it.

This is not "free" internet. The idea of 'get your PSP or porn fix go elsewhere' doesn't cut it. The government can't take tax money to pay for something and then censor speech.

The 1st amendment protects us from the government controlling speech. Filtering porn is on moral grounds. It would be no different than filtering out an opposing view of the government, their political opponants, what ever.

They have NO good argument to uphold this filtering. The connection is just a carrier and my or your surfing porn on the connection does NOT interfear with the community standards since your surfing the internet doesn't affect the person next to you. I could see it if someone was using it to display it in the public forum, but that's a whole different can of worms. Even in that case, it wouldn't matter WHAT connection you used to display it.

Bottom line is, this is just yet another example of a governmental body breaking the law. Yes, surprise surprise, even the governmenet can break the law - they broke the law on many occasions for the past 250 years.

anonpronman

@optonline.net

The internet was made for Porn

Subject sayd it all!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

Wow...

So those taxpayers not only have to pay for a crippled network, they also have to pay for content filtering software. What a crock of BS.
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See 6 replies to this post

ptrowski
Got Helix?
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Waahhh...

It's free! It amazes me that people can complain about something being free...

read the headline

@67.98.x.x

Re: Waahhh...

Because it is not "free". LA Muni WIFI. Taxpayers ultimatley pay for it. If I were a taxpayer to LA Muni and they are wasting my taxpayer $$ on private business intrests above FREEDOM I would be irked.

ptrowski
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Re: Waahhh...

said by read the headline :

Because it is not "free". LA Muni WIFI. Taxpayers ultimatley pay for it. If I were a taxpayer to LA Muni and they are wasting my taxpayer $$ on private business intrests above FREEDOM I would be irked.
Yes, and at the same time you would be bitching that the muni wifi is about 9 kbps down and 2 kbps up because it is being choked.
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Tom517

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·ViaTalk

To the contrary, anon@someip. It is free. The general public can access it at no charge, just like a "free" parking space. I would think that most people of average intelligence would understand that there is a difference between no charge and no cost. Even FREEDOM, which is also free, has a cost associated with it.

pb5k
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bamabrad

join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

Nothing is free-

Somebody has to pay-and the ones paying for it,or their delegated authorities,say no to these particular things-I see no problem.

OceanaJones

join:2004-10-18
Suffolk, VA

Big Brother

Always be wary of a government that offers anything for "free". It's the government's way to force control over a people. It should be rejected. Nothing in the government is ever "free"... nothing. People win their freedom from oppression and control, but government takes that freedom away or severely limits it.
SipSizzurp
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Hilo, HI

Only P2P

Seems that the only porn it blocks is P2P based. The 19.3 trillion "Normal" porn sites apparently still accessible. Now that is what you can call "government" spending.
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See 10 replies to this post

DriveByTroll

@158.52.x.x

What's the big deal?

Why do we not think twice about violent video games or blood-n-guts movies but an mpeg depicting two people being passionate gets the censor's axe?

Jetoni
Premium
join:2001-04-18
Rochester, NY

Re: What's the big deal?

said by DriveByTroll :

Why do we not think twice about violent video games or blood-n-guts movies but an mpeg depicting two people being passionate gets the censor's axe?
That really gave me a good laugh , thank you!
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said by DriveByTroll :

Why do we not think twice about violent video games or blood-n-guts movies but an mpeg depicting two people being passionate gets the censor's axe?
I've always wondered about this double standard that seems
to exist in the US. Cry foul over sexual content, but
violence is OK. Go figure...
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"Kayura or Badamon, whichever you are, you should know that I will never give up this battle. By the will of the Ancient, I shall succeed!" - Shuten (Anubis) from the Ronin Warriors. Taking the 'L' out of Play: the Big Music/Hollywood Mantra

viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House

Net Neutrality test

Does the P2P issue have to do with illegal files or bandwidth problems? Cause one could say that downloading movies from legit sites should be illegal due to bandwidth problems.

As for the porn issue it all comes down to the net neutrality. Government tells an ISP they can't block but the government does the blocking themselves. You have to wonder what other sites the city will block in the future.