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Earthlink Redirecting Failed DNS Queries?

Some of our users are complaining that Earthlink has started redirecting failed DNS queries to their own search site. The move resembles Verisign's failed Sitefinder initiative, which tinkered with Internet fundamentals simply to increase ad-revenue. It looks like so far it's only DSL customers; it also looks like it's not happening to ADSL2+ customers, as by default they use Covad DNS servers, not ns1.earthlink.net.

User whsfdude writes in: "This is the first ISP that I know of who has tried this; It's how open DNS raises their money. The difference is opendns - makes it very clear what they're are doing and you have to change it. It's not right for an ISP to do and tack on a big banner ad just to squeeze a little more money out of their customers."

DSLExtreme tried something similar after new owners thought it might be a nice way to boost ad dollars. They scrapped their efforts after massive complaints, stating the idea was "not the right fit for our DSLExtreme clients."
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sonofjay
Mission Accomplished - Bush May 1, 2003
MVM
join:2001-05-14
Malden, MA

sonofjay

MVM

Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

Not happening here using either:

rns1.earthlink.net
rns2.earthlink.net

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

you don't have use their dns servers do you?, I have been using "treewalk" (»ntcanuck.com/) for a long time and haven't had a problem. JMT
dentman42
Premium Member
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH

dentman42

Premium Member

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

There's someone out there doing this for URLs without a domain name, though it doesn't seem to happen on all ISPs (I've seen it on Road Runner, Cox, Comcast and BellSouth for sure, and I think I've seen it on SBC/ATT). I first discovered it because of my employer's VPN - people try to access an internal site (no domain name, for example "http://homepage") while not on the VPN and get redirected to "Future home of .homepage information.com". I've tried this on my own machines with no VPN software installed and duplicated the results - basically any URL without a domain gets redirected instead of failing a DNS lookup, and the "information.com" page (IP always in the range 69.x.x.x) will pop up a couple more windows if popups are not blocked, at least one of which usually attempts a drive-by download. I'm really surprised I haven't seen this mentioned here as it started almost a year ago.
dentman42

dentman42

Premium Member

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

Just did another test. Created an SBC/ATT dialup connection (had DSL for 7 months, first time I've used the dialup!) to verify that I get redirected on this connection. Put "homepage" in the address bar in IE and got the information.com page (no "future home of" blurb this time) - resolved to 69.25.212.180. (First attempt it failed due to an earlier attempt to block the page - I had to rename my hosts file which was redirecting urlforwarding.domainsite.com, searchportal.information.com, and ppc-parked.domainsite.com to localhost). This was as much of the redirect as I have been able to trace. Since it occurs on many ISPs, you guys should be able to duplicate the redirect.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall to woody7

MVM

to woody7
said by woody7:

you don't have use their dns servers do you?, I have been using "treewalk" (»ntcanuck.com/) for a long time and haven't had a problem.
Even TreeWalk has to get it's information from somewhere, so what DNS did you configure it to use ??

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

Just check out the sitea and it explains how it works, I'm lame at trying to explain. You download and install their program and run it. but it seems to be working for me better than Elink's.....which I was having issues with.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

I use TreeWalk myself. I was asking *you* how you configured it.
StaticMan
join:2006-06-21
23534

StaticMan to woody7

Member

to woody7
no you do not have to use their dns servers, there are public servers available, specifically 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.1, set them up on your pc and you should be fine.
GigahertZ420
join:2001-10-02
Fairbanks, AK

GigahertZ420 to sonofjay

Member

to sonofjay
There is something you just don't do as an internet company. Screwing with DNS in any way is one of them. When will companies learn that when you mess with DNS, you get blacklisted.

Same bullcrap was tried by Verisign and they got bitch slapped for it. I know of many people in the IT field that said, "not so fast verisign, we will just blacklist your effing DNS servers"

If you want to try this internet companies, setup an alternate DNS and allow people to manually change their DNS to your "i'm a location bar typing noob" DNS servers. DO NOT MAKE THIS THE DEFAULT!!@!

VR Laura
Queen Of Cyberspace
Premium Member
join:2002-02-10
NYC

1 recommendation

VR Laura to sonofjay

Premium Member

to sonofjay
Ugh. It's happening to me.

I'm in NYC with Earthlink ADSL via Verizon (768/128).

Today, I am very UNHAPPY about this.

Tomorrow, I will be very ANNOYED about this.

I expect by Monday -- if Earthlink is still doing this obscene redirection -- I will be really PISSED about this.

Laura

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium Member
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

nixen

Premium Member

Re: Not happening on Earthlink Cable Customers

said by VR Laura:

Ugh. It's happening to me.

I'm in NYC with Earthlink ADSL via Verizon (768/128).

Today, I am very UNHAPPY about this.

Tomorrow, I will be very ANNOYED about this.

I expect by Monday -- if Earthlink is still doing this obscene redirection -- I will be really PISSED about this.

Laura
So... Let them know that Tuesday you will have a new ISP.

-tom

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to sonofjay

Premium Member

to sonofjay
207.69.188.185, 207.69.188.186, 207.69.188.187

ns1.mindspring.com
ns2.mindspring.com
ns3.mindspring.com

Try those as that is what DSL customers are given.

anonymously
@cox.net

anonymously to sonofjay

Anon

to sonofjay
Gee, Cox HSI always sends me to Google. Smart!
madearthlink
join:2006-09-11
Dayton, OH

madearthlink to sonofjay

Member

to sonofjay
To make matters worse the support has NO Idea how to repair these browsing issues. Please see text of my discussion last night.

Welcome to Earthlink LiveChat. Your chat session will begin shortly.
Not at home and you want to read your email? With EarthLink Web Mail you can check your email from any computer with an internet connection!

'Timothy M. ' says: Thank you for contacting EarthLink LiveChat, how may I help you today?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: many website are not displaying.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: takes me to either google or earlink-help.net
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: this started today...
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I've never seen anything direct me to earthlink
Timothy M. : HI Michael. Let me assist you with this issue.
Timothy M. : I'd like to inform that you get redirected to EarthLink site when entering Incorrect Web address to access a Web site.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: how? I have no earthlink software?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: radioshack.com?
Timothy M. : Are you getting redirected to EarthLink site when entering radioshack.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: yes
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: and abc.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: »earthlink-help.net/?d=er ··· =abc.com
Timothy M. : Okay, click on the link below and let me know if you able to access the Web site.
Timothy M. : »abc.com/
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: no I'm not able to get to anything - and now it is not redirecting me to anything
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: another window opened on my screen attempting abc.com - are you in my computer?
Timothy M. : No, I do not have Remote sharing rights. I suggest you clear the cache and cookies in your browser and then try accessing Web pages.
Timothy M. : 1. Click on My Computer"
2. Click on Control Panel,
3. Click on "Internet Options"
4. Click on General Tab->There click on "Delet files..", Check the option "Delet all offline content" and click on O.K.
5. Once that is completed Click on delete cookies button, wait for the operation completed and then click on O.K.

Once you done the above steps close all the Browsers except this chat window, re-open a browser, test and let me know the result.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: »www.google.com/search?q=abc.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: did not display abc.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: clicking the link to abc.com from google did not display the site...
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: as I've mentioned - this started today...
Timothy M. : I do understand your concern. Please close all the browser windows open and Re-open a new Internet Explorer window:
Timothy M. : Enter »abc.com in the address bar and hit enter.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: close this window also?
Timothy M. : Then let me know if you able to access the Website.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: nothing displayec
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: "The Page cannot be displayed"
Timothy M. : Please do not close the chat window.
Timothy M. : Please follow the instructions below and Reset Web Settings.
Timothy M. : To Reset Web Settings and file associations:

1. Open My Computer.
2. Open Control Panel.
3. Open Internet Options.
4. Click the Programs tab.
5. Click the Reset Web Settings button at the bottom (uncheck the Reset Homepage box if you want to keep your current Homepage).
6. Click Apply.
7. Click OK.

You may need to Restart the computer to check the new settings.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: ok
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: will not display microsoft.com
Timothy M. : Okay, click on the link below and let me know if you able to access the Microsoft site.
Timothy M. : »www.microsoft.com/
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: what the hell! ANother window just opened and went to Microsoft.com...
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: You said you didn't have remote access?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I'm 10 seconds away from calling the FBI and reporting Earthlink for hacking into customer computers
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I want a manager to call me immediately at 937-626-0216
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Immediately
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: FBI Cincinnati Room 9000 550 Main Street Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-8501 cincinnati.fbi.gov (513) 421-4310
Timothy M. : Okay, I need to transfer you to my Supervisor for further assistance. Please standby while I transfer.
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Robert R'.
'Robert R' says: Thank you for contacting EarthLink LiveChat, how may I help you today?
Robert R: Hello, I see you've already been chatting. Please give me a moment so I can read the previous chat and pick up where you left off.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: ok
Robert R: Thank you for being on hold and apologize for the inconvenience caused.
Robert R: The issue you are having is because EarthLink is in the process of releasing a DNS error handling system across our network which will change the experience EarthLink ISP customers have when a non-existent domain is encountered.
Robert R: When a user types in or clicks on a link to a domain name that does not exist, the Barefruit system recognizes the error as it is being returned to the user?s browser and directs the user to a page hosted by Yahoo that attempts to determine the likely domain the user was trying to reach. Yahoo then displays a set of ?did you mean ..? links to likely domains the user was trying to reach alongside suggested search terms based upon Yahoo?s analysis of the domain the user was trying to reach.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: How did new windows open that happened to coincide directly with Timothy's request?
Robert R: When we send any link to customer, it has the option to directly open the Page on customer's computer.
Robert R: This doesn't require the customer to click on the link.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: "IT has the option" - What is "IT"
Robert R: I mean the Web Page sent by Timothy has an option to open the page directly on customer's computer.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: He didn't send me a webpage. He sent me a link over an Instant Messaging service. How do I opt out of your barefruit service? I'm an advanced user and do not need your error handling.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: This may very well result in a criminal probe. You are comprimising my privacy without my prior notification. Furthermore, the quality of your service is being degraded by your own folly.
Robert R: I'm sorry currently there there is no way to Opt Out for Barefruit Service.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: How do you propose the resolve this situation? There are still many websites that do not display?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: 6 months credit would be acceptable.
Robert R: You can send your feedback by going to the link given below:
Robert R: »support.earthlink.net/fe ··· k/?add=1
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: How do you propose to resolve my browsing errors?
Robert R: The browsing errors will be redirected to the earlink-help.net
Robert R: And currently there is no option to get it changed.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: So your suggesting that these challenges will not go away - you have no resolution - and I simply need accept a certain % of mainstream websites (including important financial site and company email) will no longer be accessible?
Robert R: It will redirect only the pages of non-existent domain.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: radioshack.com , abc.com ,bearingpoint.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: microsoft.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: kroger.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: cbs.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: yahoo.com
Robert R: It seems to be the issue with the Browser settings that is not displaying the pages correctly. That is why we've provided the step for Resetting the Web Settings.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: which I've done
Robert R: Have you rebooted the computer after following the steps?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Don't even attempt to tell me these are my websettings. This started today and we've been gone for a week (i.e. we didn't change anything)
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Yes I've rebooted
Robert R: Are you getting these pages redirected to other web pages on different computer?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: no
Robert R: You mean you are on same computer where you've followed the steps.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: yes
Robert R: Then rebooting the computer should disconnect this chat sessino.
Robert R: *session.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I reset my websetting earlier today and rebooted - I'm a technology consultant at a Tier 1 System Integration Consulting firm
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I know how computers work
Robert R: We are piloting a new product called Desktop Sharing which allows me to send you an automated task to help expedite this chat. It also allows me, with your permission, to take control of your computer via a secure connection to resolve the problem in the event the automated task does not successfully resolve your issue. Every action is automatically logged so you know exactly what changes are made to your computer. Would you like to start a desktop sharing session?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Hell no.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Clearly you have no resolution. Fishing around my computer for a spin won't change a thing. If you don't have any other suggestions clearly you have no resolution.
Robert R: Ok, I'll send you links from my side and let me know if you get the web page displayed correctly or not.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Shoot
Robert R: »yahoo.com/
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Nothing displayed
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: The page cannot be displayed
Robert R: Let me know the Address of Web Page that you see on Address Bar.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: »yahoo.com/
Robert R: That means it is not redirecting to earthLink-help.net page.
Robert R: And you are just getting error as "page cannot be displayed" Am I correct?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: If I type yahoo.com - instead of you opening a window - it directs me to: »earthlink-help.net/?d=er ··· ahoo.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: All that means is your system can't even distinquish typing a URL versus clicking a link
Robert R: Have you set the DNS Servers?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: no
Robert R: 1. Click on Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Network and Dial-Up Connections...alternatively, you can get to the same location via Start -> Connect To -> Show All Connections.
2. Highlight the connection that is having issues.
3. Click on the File Menu -> Choose Properties.
4. Click on the Networking Tab.
5. Highlight "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)".
6. Click on Properties.
7. Tell me what is listed for the Preferred and Alternate DNS. #PFR#/DUT/Dia/PC/WinXP/CheckDNS - XP View
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: 207.69.188.185
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: 207.69.188.186
Robert R: Let me know how are you connected currently?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: DSL
Robert R: I mean EarthLink DSL or some other network?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: earthlink
Robert R: Ok, please let me know all the web pages that are redirected with complete link in this chat so that I can escalate the issue.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: earthlink_user@earthlink.net: radioshack.com , abc.com ,bearingpoint.com earthlink_user@earthlink.net: microsoft.com earthlink_user@earthlink.net: kroger.com earthlink_user@earthlink.net: cbs.com earthlink_user@earthlink.net: yahoo.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: That should be sample enough to escalate the issue.
Robert R: I don't mean the address of the Web Pages. I mean the Redirected web pages that you got.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: »earthlink-help.net/?d=er ··· ahoo.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: subsitute any of the above site for www.yahoo.com
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I cannot access yahoo at all
Robert R: »www.yahoo.com/
Robert R: Now check if you are able to access the Yahoo or not.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Attempt Number 3: When you send me a link it displays "The page cannot be displayed"
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: When I type the URL it displays the earthink-help.net URL
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: How's this for broken: The page that displays has the following content: You entered "www.yahoo.com ". Did you mean www.yahoo.com?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: They are the SAME URL!!
Robert R: Ok, I'll escalate the issue.
Robert R: Is there anything else I may assist you with today?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I want the phone number to your supervisor.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I want to speak with someone right now.
Robert R: You can contact our Head Office at 1-404-815-0770 (Timings: 8:30 a.m.?5:30 p.m. ET, Monday?Friday)
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: That's fine. I'd like to speak with your manager now.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Does your silence mean your ignoring me?
Robert R: I'm sorry my manager is not available right now.
Robert R: And there is no direct number to contact him.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: He/she can contact me.
Robert R: You can email him at saurabhpa@corp.earthlink.net
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: How can there not be a direct line? What if you have a family emergency? Do they jump on technical support and hope to get you on chat?
Robert R: We have our own internal system to get contacted and I'm sorry I'll not be able to provide anymore information in this regard.
Robert R: You can email him your feedback.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: You've got to be kidding. I have an urgent webcast at 7:30 am tomorrow and your simply telling me my internet won't work and that's it!!
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Who do I call to cancel my service?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: You don't even have a phone number?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: What company doesn't have a phone number?
Robert R: EarthLink's Technical Support Department can be reached 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at 888-327-8454
Robert R: You can contact above number and ask for the Supervisor.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Do you have any resolution for these errors?
Robert R: The Resetting of Web Settings should resolve the issue. And you can also try typing complete address.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Attempted both of those several times - they did not work. Anything else?
Robert R: As both of these are not working I need to escalate the issue and I'm escalating the issue so that it can be resolved at the earliest.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Your technical support 888 number disconnected me b/c of "Extremely High Call Volume due to system outage"
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Are you aware of a system outage?
Robert R: You can try connecting after some time.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Robert - I need you to tell me in writing you have no other avenue to provide assistance. You don't know what's wrong and do not now how to fix it.
Robert R: There are some issues with Dial-Up/DSL Connections, that is why we have call flow.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Are these issues related to the issues I'm experiencing?
Robert R: Do you have Anti-Virus/Firewall Software installed on computer?
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: No
Robert R: It is not because the issue with what you are experiencing.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I do use Windows Defender
Robert R: We've checked all the possible cause of issue and as you are still finding difficulties I'm escalating the issue to our engineers so that they can work on the issue and get the issue resolved at the earliest.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: Please note the transcript of this message will be displayed in it's entirety as many locations as will accept. I'm going to use what precious spare time I have to inform as many potential customers as possible the ghastly nature of Earthlink service and support. Hopefully the management making these awful decisions will be fired and more customer oriented decision makers will be promoted in their stead. I can only assume Earthlink is getting kickbacks from Yahoo and Barefruit for this spyware service that undoubtedly tracks customer surfing behavior.
Robert R: I really apologize for the inconvenience caused.
earthlink_user@earthlink.net: I have no doubt of your concern. It is always the frontline associate that lives day to day with the customer that feels our pain. It is the upper management that is clearly quite removed from the customer. Hopefully our dialogue will shed light to Earthlink upper management how poorly they've addressed the basics of customer service.
END SESSION

bleearg13
join:2001-03-03
Gaithersburg, MD

bleearg13

Member

Paxfire

They are probably using Paxfire, which is a company who claims to have created the SiteFinder service.

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

1 recommendation

Doctor Olds

Premium Member

Re: Not Paxfire, but Bearfruit of the UK.

»barefruit.com/?page=home

Try this if you are on EL.

»earthlinkmustdie.dslreports.com/

It takes 28 (twenty eight) seconds before it responds.

Then it shows this:


Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Who Cares?

Really... does it matter if you get a DNS error page or a page from someone else telling you that the server couldn't be found with a few suggestions/ads on it?

Either way, you didn't get where you were going. At least with the former you may have a link right there for you to click on instead of typing it again.

Move on and find some other petty thing to complain about.
claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH

2 recommendations

claco

Member

Re: Who Cares?

Don't think in just web browser terms. If it were just port 80 browser request that were seeing these false positives for non-existent domains, I wouldn't really care.

It matters because it severely screws with email systems. Now, instead of email bouncing because there is no destination domain, or spam checks working because domains don't exist, email servers are led to believe through these 'false positives' that domains exists, and then accept the emails and fill up trying to send them out. Spam filters and lists now have an even worse time of things because EVERY DNS domain request returns a result when they shouldn't.

exactly11
@vif.net

1 recommendation

exactly11 to Skippy25

Anon

to Skippy25
Exactly, instead of a "This page cannot be displayed" you get a search page which may or may not help YOU. The point is it might help 75% of the less-tech savvy customers, and therefore it's a good idea.

It's not so good when you think of the big ISP getting a few more $$$, and still charging people the extra fees too on our bill.

Is this really something to get upset about??

Here is an Idea for the ISPs! Just like some video sites that show 10 second advert's before the actual video, ISP can start showing webpages with advertisements before directing you to your intended page! What a money maker that would be! They could do it on any page, everytime!!

If HotSpots can redirect you until you pay, they must be able to do this!

(If they do that, then you have a reason to complain, but if you mis-type something, get over it, and correct your spelling.)
sirghost
citywide
join:2005-07-23
Nashville, TN
Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

1 recommendation

sirghost

Member

Re: Who Cares?

The whole point behind this entire arguement is that WE do not like being taken to a place that SHOULD not be done WITHOUT our consent. When i mistype an address I would like to be told that i mistyped it by telling me it does not exisist. Now for those who are not tech savvy, yes it would be nice to be directed to a page that shows you options for what you may have ment to go to. BUT MAKE IT AN OPTION NOT SOMETHING BY DEFAULT. And to you, dns works by saying www.something.com = 1.1.1.1 or some other such ip address. That is how i want it to work unless i tell it to otherwise. That is how it was working 20 years ago, that is how i want it to work now...
bmn
? ? ?

join:2001-03-15
hiatus

2 recommendations

bmn to Skippy25

to Skippy25
Petty ? Absolutely not. Tricks like this break DNS and the way it is suppose to work. There's a reason there was such an uproar about Sitefinder and its the same reason there's noise being made about this.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Who Cares?

Claco gave a good reason for being against it. I personally do not use what he says so I will have to take his word for it. Koodo's for the good response Claco. However, I would still argue it is good and another method for your verification needs to be found or developed.

However, you on the other hand can't just come here and say it is broke because it is not. Not getting a DNS error is not broken. I personally think it is an enhancement to DNS and improves MOST customers experience.

Beyond what the inconvenience that Claco pointed out give a valid reason as to why it is "broke".
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

1 recommendation

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Re: Who Cares?

said by Skippy25:

Beyond what the inconvenience that Claco pointed out give a valid reason as to why it is "broke".
His entire reason given is "why it is broke"...

You may not care, YOU may see it as an enhancement, but to the way "the internet" works, it's broke. Period.

He gave every good answer necessary. Not to mention, it's not acceptable.
bmn
? ? ?

join:2001-03-15
hiatus

1 recommendation

bmn to Skippy25

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

However, you on the other hand can't just come here and say it is broke because it is not. Not getting a DNS error is not broken. I personally think it is an enhancement to DNS and improves MOST customers experience.
Actually, exactly because you are NOT getting an error is THE reason it breaks DNS. DNS depends on a clearly specified standard set of requests and responses. When a zone or record does not exist, there is a proscribed response that is suppose to be given (NXDOMAIN, etc.). Whole slews of applications depend on these rules and specs being followed.
Beyond what the inconvenience that Claco pointed out give a valid reason as to why it is "broke".
See above. It breaks DNS, whether you know/admin it or not. Trust me, this comes from someone has the professional pleasure of dealing with DNS daily.

And if you don't believe me, ask another system or network administrator worth their salt and they will give you similar reasons.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 edit

2 recommendations

dave to Skippy25

Premium Member

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

Not getting a DNS error is not broken.
Yes, it is. If you want, you can find testimony from the people who designed the protocol - just look for the brouhaha from when Verisign did that.
However, I would still argue it is good and another method for your verification needs to be found or developed.
OK, so we should discard twenty-some years of network application protocols just so Earthlink can mistreat a standard network service how they feel like it?

A fairly typical way to write a certain class of code is this: if you get a name lookup error, tell the user, because he made a mistake. If you get a connection timeout or port-not-listening refusal, quietly retry in the background.

So now we're converting user typing errors into hard-to-diagnose failure modes (for non-web, non-mail, non-ftp applications). What used to result in a name lookup failure now turns into a 'valid' IP address that isn't actually running the intended service.

But, hey, if Earthlink can make a profit, what does it matter if we break twenty years of application code?

Do you actually write network application code? If not, I respectfully suggest you're not qualified to judge the effect of this change.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Who Cares?

Again I do not see how this "breaks" DNS.

You don't get the page you wanted because it does not exist. Correct me if I am wrong but DNS is to resolve the name you type to an IP address. That address does not exist and DNS responds accordingly. Looks to me like DNS name resolution worked perfectly. Just because another party took that error and turned it into something more meaningful to a vast majority of the internet users makes it no less of a negative DNS response.

Now let's discuss another application attempting to use it and not being able to work properly because it doesn't get what it was programmed to get. DNS did just as it was supposed to do which is to indicate the namespace you are looking for does not exist. Unfortunately the mail application couldn't interpret the response properly while any web browser could. Sounds like a mail application problem to me and the application should be fixed or the administrator of the mail server should change their method for resolving addresses. (like maybe using different DNS servers)

Now lets discuss the... it's always been that way and we can't change it argument. This is called innovation and evolution of technology. So find something else petty to complain about.
bmn
? ? ?

join:2001-03-15
hiatus

1 recommendation

bmn

Re: Who Cares?

said by Skippy25:

Again I do not see how this "breaks" DNS.
»livehost.net/article168.html

See the section on authoritative servers for another reason this breaks DNS... Earthlink is acting as an authoritative server for zones it has no right to claim authority over. A clear violation of the DNS paradigm...
Just because another party took that error and turned it into something more meaningful to a vast majority of the internet users makes it no less of a negative DNS response.
Incorrect because in the process of returning an error page, the Earthlink servers are returning false data on zones that don't exist. Once again, a violation of it's authority.
Now let's discuss another application attempting to use it and not being able to work properly because it doesn't get what it was programmed to get. DNS did just as it was supposed to do which is to indicate the namespace you are looking for does not exist.
No, because to redirect the user to the cutesy page for a non-existent domain, Earthlink will return an IP address. In DNS terms, when you receive an address for a name, you are essentially saying that the lookup was successful, which in this case is incorrect.
Unfortunately the mail application couldn't interpret the response properly while any web browser could. Sounds like a mail application problem to me and the application should be fixed or the administrator of the mail server should change their method for resolving addresses. (like maybe using different DNS servers)
Not no, but hell no... Your solution violates the standards of internet. All that does is shift the responsibility to the people who aren't breaking the rules to accommodate the people who are violating the rules. There is no good reason that I should have to patch all of my mail servers because one rogue company decides it knows better than the majority of the experts in the field.
Now lets discuss the... it's always been that way and we can't change it argument. This is called innovation and evolution of technology. So find something else petty to complain about.
This isn't innovation and it isn't the evolution of technology... This is a company going rogue with respect to the rules and standards of the internet. There's a reason those standards and rules are in place.

I'm sorry you view this as a "petty" thing to argue about, but the fact that at least three network/systems admin-type people (including myself) have said that this is wrong indicates that there is something seriously wrong with doing this.

Like I said, any systems/network admin worth his salt isn't going to side with you on this issue for the reasons already outlined.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

2 edits

2 recommendations

dave to Skippy25

Premium Member

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

Again I do not see how this "breaks" DNS.

You don't get the page you wanted because it does not exist.
You keep talking about "pages". There's no such thing in DNS.

If I write an application, and the user configures a non-existent name, then I expect gethostbyname() to return "no such name".

I do not expect it to return the address of some random system that does not implement the expected protocol.

These are the rules I've understood to be operative in the last 20 years or so.
Correct me if I am wrong but DNS is to resolve the name you type to an IP address. That address does not exist and DNS responds accordingly.
You're wrong.

What is supposed to happen is that DNS should return "no such name".

Instead, it pretends the name exists, and returns the address of some system I've never heard of.

If the application then connects via HTTP, the HTTP server at that address will serve up some sort of web page. Very nice for HTTP.

If the application then connects via SMTP, the mail server will (I presume) say "no such user" at the appropriate juncture in the protocol, and mail sort of works, but differently from what it did before.

Maybe there's a similar thing for the ftp protocol.

But for any other protocol -- let's say the mind file system protocol, since I guarantee no-one has implemented that -- then the "bogus address" will not have a server and cannot deliver an appropriate response. They don't even know the goddamn encoding of a mind file system response, so they can't respond to it.
Looks to me like DNS name resolution worked perfectly. Just because another party took that error and turned it into something more meaningful to a vast majority of the internet users makes it no less of a negative DNS response.
No. The correct response for a non-existent name is to return a "nonexistent name" error.

A name-to-address service that lies to its client is broken.

A service definition not only describes what happens in the 'success' case (for DNS, looking up a known name), it describes what happens in 'failure' causes (like looking up a name that is not known). Returning an address for an unknown name is just as much a violation as not returning an address for a known name.
Sounds like a mail application problem to me and the application should be fixed or the administrator of the mail server should change their method for resolving addresses.
Yes. Every piece of application code written in the last 20 years should be reworked because some idiot fails to return "unknown name" in response to an unknown name, but instead pretends that the name is valid.

This is precisely the objection.
Now lets discuss the... it's always been that way and we can't change it argument. This is called innovation and evolution of technology. So find something else petty to complain about.
No, let's discuss the fact that the internet holds together because the implementors agree to implement standard protocols in a standard way so that systems can interoperate in a predictable way.

Innovators are free to implement any damn service they want, no matter how twisted. What they're not free to do is to implement a variation of DNS that violates the protocol definition, and then call it "DNS" and foist it on people that are connecting to a DNS service.

You've got some balls to say that the people who put the Internet together (which doesn't include me) are afraid of "innovation" !

Since we're fond of car analogies at this site -- why don't you unilaterally start driving on the left-hand side of the road? I know the standard in the USA is to drive on the right, but hell, why not innovate? There might be a few interoperability problems to start with, but everyone else will have to adapt.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Re: Who Cares?

Wow you sure had a lot to say there, but what is stopping you from redirecting your DNS queries to another server?

Does a redirection even affect applications outside of HTTP request (mail appears to work one user said)? What is stopping innovation from going to only HTTP being affected? Oh that's right.... it's been like that for the 20 years you know of so why move on.

DNS is not perfect, maybe determining the type of name request would be an improvement.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

1 edit

dave

Premium Member

Re: Who Cares?

said by Skippy25:

Does a redirection even affect applications outside of HTTP request (mail appears to work one user said)? What is stopping innovation from going to only HTTP being affected? Oh that's right.... it's been like that for the 20 years you know of so why move on.
It's DNS. DNS has nothing to do with HTTP. You can't tell from a DNS query that the application intends to talk HTTP. That's the whole problem.

You're framing this as me being 'against innovation', but my argument is that they shouldn't break a basic Internet protocol just to benefit web users. If it could be confined to web users, that would be more-or-less ok. But the protocol does not carry enough information for anyone to make that distinction.
said by Skippy25:

DNS is not perfect, maybe determining the type of name request would be an improvement.
Yes, that's the sort of innovation that would actually make some sense.

As it stands, DNS mostly resolves 'network layer' names - you get an IP address (MX would seem to be an exception).

What a service like this needs is to handle 'transport layer' names (mapping to IP address, protocol, port number). Given such an arrangement, you could reply with the address of a web server if it was a name lookup from a web app, or with 'no such name' if it was one of these protocols that I'm more worried about.

The trouble is, that requires client code. As such, it's hard to unilaterally declare you've got a new service. You need to either write code for all clients, or persuade client implementors that you're on to a good thing. (This last is what the Internet RFC mechanism is all about).

winky
Turn Left At The Moon
join:2001-02-11
Saint Louis, MO

winky to dave

Member

to dave
Oh Dave, save your breath. This guy probably learned all he needed to know about economics in seventh grade civics class just like he already knows all about the interweb now.
tbriansmall
join:2004-08-22
Eureka, CA

tbriansmall to Skippy25

Member

to Skippy25
you really ae not listening. DNS does not just resolve names. It also communicates important information to the requesting party if the name does not exist, information that is very specific in what it is supposed to say. When someone arbitrarily changes what that message is, that is, omits it altogether and hijacks you to their site, then the system has broken down, and as has been pointed out, specifically mail servers really really need this specific information in order to operate properly. It's (almost) like if your gas guage suggested you might want to stop at Bk instead of warning you that you were running out of gas. Where would you end up? Mail servers carry an enormous amount of the internet load. You might not care, but a lot of people do. What you are suggesting is that we simply break the system for the dummys, and screw the people who really know what they need to get done.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka

MVM

Re: Who Cares?

said by tbriansmall:

you really are trolling. Snip~
Fixed your quote for you

I can't really imagine it is anything else.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo to Skippy25

Member

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

This is called innovation and evolution of technology.
this is not innovation. this is greedy bastardization. fuk earthlink. they obviously didn't learn anything from the verislime fiasco.
bruce79
join:2003-01-16
Tustin, CA

bruce79 to Skippy25

Member

to Skippy25
I'm not on either earthlink or msn, but windoes does pretty much the same thing. Instead of 404 I often get a page from msn saying it couldn't find what I was looking for and maybe they can help me with their targeted advertisements. It bugs me but personally I would feel a lot more comfortable if I could figure out how to redirect it to google.

(I know, there is no logical reason why MSN's ads are any better or worse than google's. It's just a personal preference that I ought to be able to set.)
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

Re: Who Cares?

said by bruce79:

I'm not on either earthlink or msn, but windoes does pretty much the same thing. Instead of 404 I often get a page from msn saying it couldn't find what I was looking for and maybe they can help me with their targeted advertisements.
That's fine, though. It's done in the web browser. It's under control of the user. It doesn't affect any other application.
It bugs me but personally I would feel a lot more comfortable if I could figure out how to redirect it to google.
Why not just turn it off?

Tools, Internet Options, Searching -> "do not search from address bar".
wolfhouse
join:2001-03-01
Westfield, NJ

wolfhouse to Skippy25

Member

to Skippy25
said by Skippy25:

Really... does it matter if you get a DNS error page or a page from someone else telling you that the server couldn't be found with a few suggestions/ads on it?

Either way, you didn't get where you were going. At least with the former you may have a link right there for you to click on instead of typing it again.

Move on and find some other petty thing to complain about.
Problem is I am used to enter cnn for say www.cnn.com, and Safari does the autocomplete. Now I am redirected to the earthlink customized 'help' page with its 'sponsored links'. THAT pisses me off. Actually that pissed me off until I changed over to 4.2.2.2 for my DNS, as indicated by a previous poster.
claudeo
join:2000-02-23
Redmond, WA

claudeo

Member

Give them a inch...

Once the precedent is established for this, what is preventing them from going further? As another poster pointed out, maybe try to force-feed an ad before giving you the response, or even interpreting certain queries to return the address of a different site that pays the highest kickbacks. So, you might be looking for "something.com" and be given the IP of "something.racket".
This must be nipped in the bud!

•••••

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium Member
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR

4 edits

NOYB

Premium Member

Solutions & Something Else Petty to Complain About

Couple solutions:

As has been mentioned earlier use these DNS servers:
4.2.2.1 (vnsc-pri.sys.gtei.net)
4.2.2.2 (vnsc-bak.sys.gtei.net)

If you for some reason really want to use some particular DNS servers that do 'not found' redirection, such as EarthLing or OpenDNS, just block the address(es) of the redirected pages in your firewall. Not sure but this may not completely resolve the email server issues.

As for finding something else petty to complain about.

Go to »Apple.com.
Now look in your task tray. Is there a QuickTime icon?
Even if you delete it, it will be back next time you login.
Only way to get ride of it is to manually go find the file and delete it. Then make sure never to go back to »Apple.com

C:\Program Files\QuickTime\qttask.exe
C:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTPlugin.ocx

I find this behavior of Apple's to be very rude and in the face of customer/consumers, and I have a zero tolerance for this. I was thinking of buying a MacBookPro but now probably won't. (it would have been a top of the line decked out system too, $3100). And specifically because of this I refuse to use or view anything that is in Apple's QuickTime format.

If »microsoft.com were to do something like this they’d be raked over the coals for eternity.

Behavior may be different if QuickTime already installed on your system.

••••••••••
reslor1
join:2003-01-10
Hackettstown, NJ

1 recommendation

reslor1

Member

Is this just a coincidence?

Click for full size
If I type "Homepage" without the quotes in the address bar in Fire Fox I get redirected to microsoft.com

NOYB
St. John 3.16
Premium Member
join:2005-12-15
Forest Grove, OR

NOYB

Premium Member

Re: Is this just a coincidence?

And it's taking you to microsoft.com because?
Some 'homepage' setting in FireFox?

"homepage" doesn't resolve to an address for me. Though homepage.com does, but not to Microsoft site.

Gfox25
join:2002-07-25
Richmond Hill, NY

1 edit

Gfox25 to reslor1

Member

to reslor1
try "bookmarks"

it seems when you do that Firefox takes you to the first google search.
ie: google "homepage" etc.

Shann0n
@blueyonder.co.uk

Shann0n

Anon

How I get this

This looks great service, how I get on my Windows?
I gets nothing but errors on this internet. Help me fix it plz.

ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17

ftthz

Member

Re: How I get this

bloated internet
ftthz

ftthz to Shann0n

Member

to Shann0n
bloated internet

Vodka2
join:2005-12-20
Sacramento, CA

Vodka2

Member

So you don't like the search page...

Some people seem to like it, some people seem to hate it.

It's on by default, so if you like it, preach on.

If you hate it... change your HOSTS file:
255.255.255.255 www.earthlinkhelp.net

Save, reboot, surf on, pretend it wasn't ever there.

Vote with your HOSTS file and pocket books
GMFreak8
join:2005-11-17
Malone, NY

GMFreak8

Member

Doing it on Earthlink Cable too...

I just tested to see if I get the page on Earthlink Cable internet through Time Warner, and I get the same earthlink page cannot be found error page. Sorry if someone else has discovered this and posted about it, I just skimmed the comments....
iright
join:2006-08-25
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

iright

Member

Re: Doing it on Earthlink Cable too...

I just logged on because I am searching for a new IP.
I work as a librarian and do research on the web. The first few times I was redirected, I wasn't pleased or mad. I was very confused. When I did figure it out, I was very angry. Making my computer redirect(and not just for typos) is invasive and intrusive. Additionally, after trying a few of the sites suggested, I feel insulted. None of the sites suggested were useful sites. Many were just advertisement web pages with even more lame links. Furthermore, the IP is taking advantage of those of little computer knowledge while getting their advertising dollars. Many of our patrons would simply think that they had a successful search. Sure, it's about the buck, but I should be at least warned first (and the suggestions of how to block it are simply over my head)

lewellyn
Premium Member
join:2003-01-29
San Francisco, CA

lewellyn

Premium Member

Is this happening still?

I want to find out if this is still going on. I tried all of the Earthlink nameservers I know of, but cannot get anything but a good ol' NXDOMAIN. Are the name servers responding differently depending on whether you're coming from an Earthlink IP or something?

whfsdude
Premium Member
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC

whfsdude

Premium Member

Re: Is this happening still?

Apparently the timeout is set high so some users don't see the problem. You can follow in detail in this thread > »Oh No They Didn't!

Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium Member
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30

Doctor Olds to lewellyn

Premium Member

to lewellyn
It's also still being rolled out....

AnonPerson
@secureworks.net

AnonPerson

Anon

Detailed info.

»blogs.earthlink.net/2006 ··· ns_1.php

Detailed info can be found at this link.

Love it. Hate it.
Make your choice.

•••

gurujeeve
@mindspring.com

gurujeeve

Anon

i'm sure earthlink thinks they're doing users a favor

Yeah, it's a swell new "feature."

For example, BEFORE, I could type "opendns" in my address bar and be seamlessly transported directly to "opendns.com."

Now, thanks to the helpful folks at Earthlink, typing in the exact same phrase gets you rudely dumped on the new and "improved" revenue generating redirect page with "helpful" links to (and only to) »www.opendb.com, »www.opendna.com, or »www.opendns.net. All, of which, I hasten to add, are pure, useless crap.

Hey, but why complain? I'm sure Earthlink will be utilizing the additional cashflow from this scheme to pass along reduced DSL subscription rates to it's loyal customers, right? Right...? Hello....?

EnuffISEnuff
@mindspring.com

EnuffISEnuff

Anon

Fat Fingering not the Case

I like many at first figured this was some kind of adware/spyware. Spent a lot of time checking with various programs. Clean as usual. I have my address bar setup to return google searches. Once this redirect/hijack takes over this function will not longer perform like it used to without resetting web settings. This works for only a short period then reverts back to the redirect/hijack.

Earthlink will get a not so nice phone call from me later on today and if this is not resolved immediately I will be switching ISP's. Wake Up Earthlink..... this is not like the yesterdays when there was only one provider on 56K.
Expand your moderator at work

boozotheclown
@mindspring.com

boozotheclown to EnuffISEnuff

Anon

to EnuffISEnuff

Re: Fat Fingering not the Case

Go on, Enuff, give them a call.

I did.

If your experience is anything like mine, you'll initially talk to someone with an extraordinarily limited knowledge of the English language who has absolutely no idea what you're talking about and who's idea of tech support consists of reading "troubleshooting" passages from an utterly inappropriate script.

Be persistent and you may be transferred (grab a crossword puzzle or book to read while on hold) to someone identifying himself as an "engineer" who is slightly more familiar with the terminology you're using but still clueless regarding the specifics of the situation.

But, if you're really, really lucky, you'll hit the jackpot and end up talking to a "supervisor" who will patiently explain that you, misguided little geek that you are, are in fact, horribly wrong, and this is a win-win solution that will benefit most, if not all, earthlink customers. When pressed, he may suggest that a good solution for you would be to henceforth refrain from doing searches from the address bar.

Yay Earthlink!

tommy13v
Premium Member
join:2002-02-15
Niskayuna NY

tommy13v

Premium Member

It is redirecting me

Happened to me on Earthlink cable this evening and promptly switched back to RoadRunner and got a nice deal for 6 months and a gift card.

How nice.
Filly8
join:2003-07-19
New York, NY

Filly8

Member

Re: It is redirecting me

My Safari browser has been hijacked!

How dare them!

Earthlink cable customer that will be switching immediately!

Extremely p/o!!!

alanmarxx
@mindspring.com

alanmarxx

Anon

Workaround from Earthlink customer service

I just checked with customer service, and surprisingly got a quick and correct answer... Of course, I shouldn't have had to do this at all -- but it does appear there is a workaround...

TRANSCRIPT:

info: 'Valeria K' says: Thank you for contacting EarthLink LiveChat, how may I help you today?

xxxxxxxx@earthlink.net: the changes that earthlink has recently implemented for dns lookup has screwed up my vpn access. i can no longer work from home because earthlink is hijacking legitimate web addresses for my company's internal network

Valeria K: I apologize for the inconvenience caused to you in this regard.

xxxxxxxx@earthlink.net: are there alternate dns servers i can use that work correctly?

Valeria K: Yes, please give me a moment while I give you the information.

Valeria K: Please use these DNS settings :
In the Preferred DNS server field, enter 202.27.184.3
In the Alternate DNS server field, enter 202.27.184.5

Valeria K: Is there anything else I may assist you with today?

xxxxxxxx@earthlink.net: excellent. that worked. thank you.

Valeria K: You are welcome.
Valeria K: It is my pleasure assisting you.
Valeria K: Do you have further queries to assist you with?
flatrich
join:2006-09-16
Point Pleasant Beach, NJ

flatrich

Member

Re: Workaround from Earthlink customer service

Thank you for the DNS solution above. It seems to be working for my account (dial-up, BTW.) I just happened on this discussion after trying to "fix" this hijack for nearly a week.

I just bought a new PC a couple of weeks ago and I assumed this was some unwanted feature that Gateway had stuck on the box, spent hours cleaning references to my.earthlink.net, »my.eimg.net and »earthlink-help.net our of my registry to no avail, etc.

And all because I just want to use the address input on my browser to search for anything I damn well please (non-URLs) with the default MSN (or Windows Live Search, as it has been rechristened of late.) Old convenient one step habit that I'm sure some of you Microsoft-bashers would find appalling, but it has served me well for years.

So has EarthLink up to now, but hijacking is a violation of my privacy and I am not happy. They should have sent out an announcement of this "service" and provided a way to sidestep it before the "rollout".

Shades of AOL! Maybe EarthLink is getting too big for people who care.

Maybe it is time to start shopping for a new provider...