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DOCSIS 3.0 Looms
60% penetration by 2010, says report
by Karl Bode Monday 28-Aug-2006 tags: bandwidth · cable · stats
A new study by ABI research studies the impact of DOCSIS 3.0, the next big Cablelabs coax standard which will be used by cable operators to fend off telco fiber to the home and VDSL. According to the report, DOCSIS 3.0 will reach 60% penetration by 2010. The outfit claims network gear should start shipping by the end of next year. While there's going to be other methods of increasing bandwidth efficiency (see switched digital video), DOCSIS 3nj is the cable industry's great competitive weapon.

A few weeks ago, the cable industry scrapped plans to deploy a stopgap measure to increase cable broadband speeds while the industry waits for the DOCSIS 3.0 specification. That now dead standard, known as DOCSIS 2.0b, would have bonded together two or three 6MHz channels to potentially offer customers 40 to 70Mbps downstream, and 30Mbps upstream. However the standard was largely a product of hardware vendors eager to sell more gear, while the cable providers themselves wanted to keep their eye on the metaphorical DOCSIS 3.0 ball.

DOCSIS 3.0 will offer downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher (per channel), incorporate Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6), and offers a plethora of other performance and functionality upgrades. For reference, DOCSIS 2.0, currently in use, delivers up to 40 Mbps down/30 Mbps up per channel. Some networks, usually in less competitive markets, are still under the shadow of DOCSIS 1.1, and are waiting for 3.0 before upgrading.

Earlier this month, Cablelabs released the specifications for DOCSIS 3.0 to the public, after meeting with vendors (who signed non-disclosure agreements) in July. The standard won't actually see real world deployment until late 2007 or early 2008, according to most projections.

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Rob
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Exciting

All these numbers are exciting.."40 to 70Mbps downstream, and 30Mbps upstream".. "DOCSIS 3.0 will offer downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher (per channel), incorporate Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6), and offers a plethora of other performance and functionality upgrades"...

But even if 3.0 was deployed nation wide tomorrow, only those cable customers in FiOS available areas would see those speeds.
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Boomer86
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Re: Exciting

said by Rob:

All these numbers are exciting.."40 to 70Mbps downstream, and 30Mbps upstream".. "DOCSIS 3.0 will offer downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher (per channel), incorporate Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6), and offers a plethora of other performance and functionality upgrades"...

But even if 3.0 was deployed nation wide tomorrow, only those cable customers in FiOS available areas would see those speeds.
... and Time-Warner will keep upload speeds well below 1MBPS, as usual.
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china crisis

join:2003-05-28

Sliced Bread

I wonder why dont we see the cable companies running around holding press confrences touting this as the next best thing to sliced bread like a certin telco does everytime they get a extra 2kb through thier lines?

Nightfall
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said by Rob:

All these numbers are exciting.."40 to 70Mbps downstream, and 30Mbps upstream".. "DOCSIS 3.0 will offer downstream data rates of 160 Mbps or higher and upstream data rates of 120 Mbps or higher (per channel), incorporate Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6), and offers a plethora of other performance and functionality upgrades"...

But even if 3.0 was deployed nation wide tomorrow, only those cable customers in FiOS available areas would see those speeds.
Broadband is a very young technology. Heck, the foundation to broadband is still being built. If you think about it, broadband has only been in mainstream since 1998, and thats being generous. @Home was out in beta in major cities in 1995-1996.

How far will we be in 2010? Who knows. I will be the first to venture though that most major cities will be wired with FIOS by then. The rural areas will still be struggling, and smaller/midsize cities will have some broadband solution.

All these things take time, and the public needs to be willing to spend money on it. Welcome to a capitalist society.
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bogey780

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Re: Exciting

From the time that telco service became a national mandate (circa 1916) to almost universal coverage it took almost 90 years. Now we're expected to redo the entire job in only 20 years. If it gets done I think it's amazing.

Rob
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Re: Exciting

said by bogey780:

From the time that telco service became a national mandate (circa 1916) to almost universal coverage it took almost 90 years. Now we're expected to redo the entire job in only 20 years. If it gets done I think it's amazing.
Yes, you are expected. We don't feel sorry for telco's. They've been given too much freedom and now it's biting them in the ass. Well too bad. If they can't walk the talk, then they should step aside and let someone else do it.
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R4M0N
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Who would have thought?

said by Summary :
For reference, DOCSIS 2.0, currently in use, delivers up to 40 Mbps down/30 Mbps up per channel
Who would have thought DOCSIS 2.0 could reach that high? As far as I can tell the top speed for 2.0 is 4mb down and 400Kb up....


justbits
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Re: Who would have thought?

Remember, 40Mbps down/30Mbps up is the shared physical layer speed. Everybody's packets in your neighborhood flowing over the shared link are flowing at that speed. If 7 people start doing a 6Mbps download, after a while, they're all going to slow down to below 6Mbps.

I think the biggest advantage to DOCSIS 3.0 is that the cable company can either squeeze more people on the same neighborhood node, or they can sell higher bandwidth on the same neighborhood node. Which do you think they'll choose? They'll probably take the route that just barely gives them a perceived advantage over the telcos product offerings. Thank you telco/cableco duopoly!

--justbits

ThrowDemsOut
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Re: Who would have thought?

said by justbits:

I think the biggest advantage to DOCSIS 3.0 is that the cable company can either squeeze more people on the same neighborhood node, or they can sell higher bandwidth on the same neighborhood node. Which do you think they'll choose? They'll probably take the route that just barely gives them a perceived advantage over the telcos product offerings.
I think they will split the difference. Docsis 3.0 will allow them to up the speeds and add a few more subscribes/node. And they will up the speeds to match Verizon Fios wherever they are in competition.
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bogey780

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Not entirely quite. The theoretical bandwidth of coax is quite high. This just shakes a little bit extra out of that. Though I believe with DOCSIS 3.0 you'll have to drop in more nodes. I don't believe it's an even swap.

Transmaster
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join:2001-06-20
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It Costs WHAT!

One thing I am thinking is this is going to increase costs because this will require the Hard line and coax drops to the houses used in cable systems to be of higher quality then they are using now. Which is probably why the cableCo's are not singing hosanna in the highest.
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Re: Who would have thought?

said by bogey780:

Not entirely quite. The theoretical bandwidth of coax is quite high. This just shakes a little bit extra out of that. Though I believe with DOCSIS 3.0 you'll have to drop in more nodes. I don't believe it's an even swap.
No, the same nodes will do. If it sells, THEN they might need to add nodes. Don't you just love the innovation timeline cable has taken. In a single decade the bandwidth has tripled, and all while using roughly the same technology. The majority of the equipment changes will be CPE based, and load balancing. This technology will just be a new config for the existing CMTS (and a few upgraded cards, but not many), the Modem just has to be compliant.
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Vamp
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Still on 1.1...

I'm still on 1.1, why talk about 3.0 when ISPs are not even upgrading to 2.0?

Cable ISPs are idiots, they already have fiber to the node, they might as well start building out fiber to the home!
tmangani

join:2005-10-26
Scarborough, ON

Re: Still on 1.1...

said by Vamp:

I'm still on 1.1, why talk about 3.0 when ISPs are not even upgrading to 2.0?

Cable ISPs are idiots, they already have fiber to the node, they might as well start building out fiber to the home!
Here we go again, the primary advantage of DOCSIS 2.0 is additional upstream. Cableco's are not like telcos and adopt all new technology just for the sake of image. If they can make the same money with 1.0 and not have to sink the capital, that's much better for them.
jdracer47

join:2005-10-16
Auburn, PA

Re: Still on 1.1...

Meanwhile they have the advantage of Franchise agreements giving them a guaranteed monopoly in most areas (mine for sure).

The only areas that will even be upgraded are those that Fios is deployed. Cable Co's cherry pick just like Verizon does. I won't see either until the 15+15 year agreement with our crappy mom and pop cable company ends in 2019. No reason for them to upgrade either, they are protected against competition. Thankfully my DSL and DISH work well, Fios would be nice but I won't see it in my lifetime I am sure.

Vamp
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said by tmangani:

said by Vamp:

I'm still on 1.1, why talk about 3.0 when ISPs are not even upgrading to 2.0?

Cable ISPs are idiots, they already have fiber to the node, they might as well start building out fiber to the home!
Here we go again, the primary advantage of DOCSIS 2.0 is additional upstream. Cableco's are not like telcos and adopt all new technology just for the sake of image. If they can make the same money with 1.0 and not have to sink the capital, that's much better for them.
More upstream is the exact reason why they should.. The number one complaint by broadband users is upload speed.

Nightfall
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Re: Still on 1.1...

said by Vamp:

said by tmangani:

said by Vamp:

I'm still on 1.1, why talk about 3.0 when ISPs are not even upgrading to 2.0?

Cable ISPs are idiots, they already have fiber to the node, they might as well start building out fiber to the home!
Here we go again, the primary advantage of DOCSIS 2.0 is additional upstream. Cableco's are not like telcos and adopt all new technology just for the sake of image. If they can make the same money with 1.0 and not have to sink the capital, that's much better for them.
More upstream is the exact reason why they should.. The number one complaint by broadband users is upload speed.
Thats the complaint by BBR users, not broadband users. There is a difference.

The people who know broadband and are tech savvy want the faster upload. The common user only cares about a few select things. Believe it or not, but broadband provider content is more important to these people than upload speeds.
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NetDroid2

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Re: Still on 1.1...

said by Nightfall:

Thats the complaint by BBR users, not broadband users. There is a difference.

The people who know broadband and are tech savvy want the faster upload. The common user only cares about a few select things. Believe it or not, but broadband provider content is more important to these people than upload speeds.
Don't forget that if they give us more upload then everyone will make servers. Or at least that is what they seem to say.
We all know that on almost every Broadband connection that is forbidden.
Thats why my cable isp gives me a high speed (upload) connection of 256Kbps.
Sending 50meg of pictures is so much fun, I can relive my dial-up memories.... lol!

phattieg

join:2001-04-29
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Re: Still on 1.1...

said by NetDroid2:

said by Nightfall:

Thats the complaint by BBR users, not broadband users. There is a difference.

The people who know broadband and are tech savvy want the faster upload. The common user only cares about a few select things. Believe it or not, but broadband provider content is more important to these people than upload speeds.
Don't forget that if they give us more upload then everyone will make servers. Or at least that is what they seem to say.
We all know that on almost every Broadband connection that is forbidden.
Thats why my cable isp gives me a high speed (upload) connection of 256Kbps.
Sending 50meg of pictures is so much fun, I can relive my dial-up memories.... lol!
Faster uploads = faster spreading of viruses and spam too. Just a friendly reminder. You may not get hit, but the page you are trying to load might get attacked by a group of idiot users who did (like this site, just an example though).
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hell0

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Wow. Its going to be such a great way to advertise.

Fine Print: We Cap, We Shape your Traffic!!!!!!

You will get 100mbps sure uncapped. Wait till they cap.

God
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uplaod speed is the most important thing to me. For VOip and games .....

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Re: Still on 1.1...

Upload speed is important to a lot of people, most of them just don't know what it's called. if my grandmother wants to send pictures of the family reunion she attended last week, she knows her AT&T connection takes a very long time to send them, she just isn't familar with the term "upload speed". there is a difference between knowing there is a problem and knowing what that problem is called. this is the cable/telco's fault. i've never seen an ISP talk about upload speed in any advertisement that i've come across. sure, time warner will give you 7MB down and claim it's 70 or 100 times faster than dial up, but they refuse to mention the paltry 512kb upload speed (if it embarasses them so much maybe they should do something about it). true competition is the only way this is going to change (legislation would also do this, but why would the legislator's do this when the lobbyists are adding to their bottom line).
fiberguy
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said by Vamp:

I'm still on 1.1, why talk about 3.0 when ISPs are not even upgrading to 2.0?

Cable ISPs are idiots, they already have fiber to the node, they might as well start building out fiber to the home!
Tell me, ... in computers,... did you upgrade and step on every single processor that came out in line? The 100, 133, 166, 200, 233 and so on all the way up to the 4gig and higher processor?

Why is there a need to adopt every single version of Docsis that hits the market? If there was a 2.0b, 2.0c then 2.0d, should they (in your view) change all the equipment in the plant just because a new version was relesased?

Most people on broadband could care less and are quite happy with their speeds.
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grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
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How will this?

Compete with FIOS 622/155 per CO soon to be 2.5/1.25 per CO and that is shared among 32 users.

Ignite
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Re: How will this?

said by grandpinaple:

Compete with FIOS 622/155 per CO soon to be 2.5/1.25 per CO and that is shared among 32 users.


That's not per CO it's per optical splitter. COs are kinda irrelevant for the purposes of the FIOS network and are just somewhere to put equipment. There's no overwhelming need for FIOS to go anywhere near its' nearest CO, it depends on optical budgets.

If you think that Verizon won't be overbooking the backhaul from the splitters in a pretty big way I want some of what you are smoking

Trust me Verizon aren't going to be guaranteeing you or anyone else on their service nearly 100Mbit of bandwidth.

I'm aware that people get their maximum rated speed all day and night on FIOS but give it time to get more popular, and for Verizon to increase the headline maximum data rate and this will change to reflect the Japanese model some more where the crunch points are in the network core, not the edge. You can have your full speed to your neighbour 24x7 but leave your local area or your provider's network and you will see degredation.
grandpinaple

join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

Re: How will this?

Well it isn't fair to evaluate what happens once it leaves the providers network. We don't know how much Verizon will oversell, but at the very least the bottleneck will be further up Verizon's network than on the Cable network.

yaplej
Premium
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White City, OR

Really 60%? Maybe not.

Charter just upgraded my area to DOCSIS 2.0. I'm getting 3.0/256, and could get 5.0/512, or 10/1 if I wanted to pay almost $70 for Internet alone.

I think one of the great advantage DOCSIS 2.0 has over 1.1 is the number of users the cable companies can place on a single node. With the increase bandwidth they can get more users on a single node and it will help drive down their infrastructure build out costs.

Its a good move for them, but I can see why they would want to hold off until DOCSIS 3.0 comes out. It seems that only places where they need the additional node density are seeing DOCSIS 2.0 upgrades because it will postpone the requirement for an infrastructure build.

So its really saving them money to upgrade specific areas to 2.0 when needed until 3.0 comes out to play, but it will probably be implemented in a similar fashion. Only places with overpopulated nodes will see the upgrade to 3.0, and the deployment of 2.0 will continue due to falling prices for 2.0 equipment.

The end result will be good overall IMO. Iv never been able to even get a 1mbps upload before, but now at least the option is there, and 10mbps down... wow.

I honestly don't expect to see 3.0 in 60% of the cable market by 2010 I cannot see the future though. Maybe by then it will be something like 15% 4.0, 35% 3.0, and 49% 2.0, and 1% 1.1.
RadioDoc
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60% Penetration?

Take a look at your cable bill and you'll feel more than 60% penetration right now.

By 2010 they better be past DOCSIS 3.0 and onto FTTH.
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HyPeRbAnD

join:2006-01-07
Stow, MA

Re: 60% Penetration?

My opinion you will see DOCSIS 3.0 in area where FTTH is available and offering higher speeds like 20/5 and up, but it will take telco's 10+ years to get all their FTTH plant ready.

Cable companies can offer higher speeds if they want without upgrading to DOCSIS 3.0. They would need to change the return combining to reduce the number of users going to a uBr port and reduce the number of users on the forward docsis qam. It actually is a very simple process to do this. I have been doing this type of node reduction for the past 1 year.

A lot of people think as it sits today that they are sharing only with people in their node, but in some/most cases you could be sharing with 2-4 nodes. I haven't really seen more than 4 nodes combined since 1998, but I guess some company could still be like that.

Keep in mind this work is all in the headend, no need to visit nodes to do reduction. We have now just started doing 1:1 combining and in heavy modem active nodes we have split them in half (which does require a node upgrade in the field).

About 40% of our nodes are 1:1 as it sits today using 3.2mhz QPSK modulation for upstream and 256QAM downstream. We are now migrating over to 3.2mhz 16QAM for an upstream which will enable us to offer higher data rate on the upstream.

Here is some info on DOCSIS
By Ron Hranac, Senior Technology Editor

DOCSIS 1.x

DOCSIS 1.0 provided the cable industry with standards-based interoperability, which means certified cable modems from multiple vendors work with qualified cable modem termination systems (CMTSs) from multiple vendors. DOCSIS 1.1 added a number of features, including quality of service (QoS), more robust scheduling, packet classification and other enhancements that facilitate voice services. Upstream transmission robustness was improved with the introduction of eight-tap adaptive equalization in DOCSIS 1.1 modems.

DOCSIS 1.0 and 1.1, collectively known as DOCSIS 1.x, support two downstream modulation formats: 64-QAM (quadrature amplitude modulation) and 256-QAM. These two modulation formats provide raw data rates of 30.34 and 42.88 Mbps respectively in a 6 MHz wide downstream channel. DOCSIS 1.x accommodates several upstream data rates, ranging from a low of 320 kbps to a high of 10.24 Mbps. It also supports two upstream modulation formats—quadrature phase shift keying (QPSK) and 16-QAM—as well as five upstream RF channel bandwidths.

DOCSIS 2.0

DOCSIS 2.0 brought the cable industry higher upstream per-channel data throughput, increasing the maximum to as much as 30.72 Mbps. Downstream functionality remains largely unchanged, retaining 64- and 256-QAM capability. DOCSIS 2.0 defines the use of 64-QAM in the upstream—plus 8-QAM, 32-QAM and the modulation formats from DOCSIS 1.x—and optionally supports 128-QAM trellis coded modulation (TCM) for synchronous code division multiple access (S-CDMA) channels.

The increased upstream per-channel data throughput available with DOCSIS 2.0 technology is accomplished using higher orders of modulation and increased RF channel bandwidth. Higher orders of modulation than QPSK and 16-QAM require substantially more robust data transmission. This is especially true in the often hostile reverse path RF spectrum used in most cable networks. To facilitate more robust upstream data transmission, DOCSIS 2.0 introduced a set of features called advanced PHY
short09

join:2006-07-21

......

A few weeks ago, the cable industry scrapped plans to deploy a stopgap measure to increase cable broadband speeds while the industry waits for the DOCSIS 3.0 specification

so ill be stuck at 1mbps upload for the next 10 years
while prices continue to go up
chuckkk

join:2001-11-10
Warner Robins, GA

Re: ......

Or as long as your local cable provider thinks they can get away with it!
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

drop the other shoe?

FTTP or comparable broadband deployment by 2010 not coax based?

Percentage?
short09

join:2006-07-21

the cable isp's

could raise ther speeds if they wanted to
cable modems can go up to 38mbps in theory
even a raise to 15/2 or 30/2 from cox would be nice

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