Apple Laptop Hacker Speaks 'Apple PR Smear Campaign' One of the hackers responsible for the bogus Apple Wi-Fi exploit demonstration last month has broken his silence, and seems to suggest the entire affair is simply an Apple smear campaign. "Cache" has been slammed because the presenters admitted they modded the hacked laptop, since the original driver that ships from Apple was not vulnerable to the specific attack they were demonstrating. There's an extended conversation on the DailyDave Security Mailing List.
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 | | Well, duh Well, obviously it was a "PR smear campaign." What else could it have been, after the gutsy "Mac's don't get viruses" ad?
And it seems to have backfired quite nicely. Way to support the Apple ads, Cache.
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The RIAA - nearly as idiotic as our patent system. | |
|  | | | Re: Well, duh said by gattaca:And it seems to have backfired quite nicely. Way to support the Apple ads, Cache. Not really, those that like apple still like apple, those that don't still don't. All this does is help the 40 year old virgin apple fanatics living in their parents' basements to sleep better at night. | |
| | |  PaladinSage of the light
join:2001-08-17
Chester, IL | Re: Well, duh Are you sure you're not talking about the hackers themselves?
I think you're getting things 180 degrees out of phase. | |
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1 edit | Re: Well, duh Meanwhile you both look kinda silly exchanging internet insults over platform dedication. Congrats, I guess.
-M
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| | | | |  N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1
1 edit | Re: Well, duh Meanwhile you both look kinda silly exchanging internet insults over platform dedication. Congrats, I guess.
-M
Isn't this where the Nelson Muntz HAW-HAW goes?
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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| | | | | Pot meet kettle...calling a guy a loser because of his choice of OS is pretty gai. | |
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| | | | Re: Well, duh said by insomniac84:said by gattaca:And it seems to have backfired quite nicely. Way to support the Apple ads, Cache. Not really, those that like apple still like apple, those that don't still don't. All this does is help the 40 year old virgin apple fanatics living in their parents' basements to sleep better at night. Actually I have a room over the garage, thank you very much 
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"You can never tell how deep a puddle is from the top" Dennis the Menace | |
| | | | | | Re: Well, duh said by jtimson:Actually I have a room over the garage, thank you very much Makes sense, apple users are supposed to think different. | |
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 pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Cute Name Johnny Cache? Lemme guess, this guy lives in his mom's basement and walks around with a slingshot in his back pocket?
I'd like to compliment these losers on how "successful" their smear campaign against Apple was (I do not yet own a Mac). If anything, you made Mac people even more smug in knowing that even if they do use a 3rd party wireless adapter and some buggy drivers, that they will still be safe from this "hack."
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | Re: Cute Name quote:
Johnny Cache?
Didn't he sing songs???
Perhaps he wrote one about a "Bad Apple?" | |
| | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | said by pnh102:Johnny Cache? Lemme guess, this guy lives in his mom's basement and walks around with a slingshot in his back pocket? My mental image was more along the lines of "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpson's, but this will do.
said by pnh102:I'd like to compliment these losers on how "successful" their smear campaign against Apple was (I do not yet own a Mac). If anything, you made Mac people even more smug in knowing that even if they do use a 3rd party wireless adapter and some buggy drivers, that they will still be safe from this "hack." Not all Mac users are smug, just look at my post sig! 
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
| | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: Cute Name said by N3OGH:My mental image was more along the lines of "Comic Book Guy" from the Simpson's, but this will do. Well... even Comic Book Guy had a job, lived on his own, and even got some action, so this is probably not the best comparison... heck, even Hans Moleman is cooler than these wannabe punks.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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|  intellerSociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
 ·Cingular Wireless
| said by pnh102:If anything, you made Mac people even more smug... I don't think you can get more smug than a prius driving powerbook owner war driving in Cupertino.
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| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: Cute Name How about a Z-71 Silverado driving Mac Book Pro owner driving to a bar in Boothwyn,PA? | |
| | |  RadioDocYeah, like it matters.Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
 ·AT&T Midwest
| said by inteller:said by pnh102:If anything, you made Mac people even more smug... I don't think you can get more smug than a prius driving powerbook owner war driving in Cupertino. You forgot "Starbucks swilling" before "prius driving".
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|
 LinklistPremium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5 |  How many Apple users use 3rd party wireless cards?
presenters admitted they modded the hacked laptop, since the original driver that ships from Apple was not vulnerable to the specific attack they were demonstrating. I guess whether Apple laptops are vulnerable or not might depend on how many of them use 3rd party wireless cards in their laptops. Given all the newer wireless products out now promising faster speeds(pre-N, etc), I suspect there may be a reasonable percentage of users that may be vulnerable.
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| |  MarkyDPremium
join:2002-08-20
Oklahoma City, OK | Re: How many Apple users use 3rd party wireless cards? said by Linklist:presenters admitted they modded the hacked laptop, since the original driver that ships from Apple was not vulnerable to the specific attack they were demonstrating. I guess whether Apple laptops are vulnerable or not might depend on how many of them use 3rd party wireless cards in their laptops. Given all the newer wireless products out now promising faster speeds(pre-N, etc), I suspect there may be a reasonable percentage of users that may be vulnerable. nope, hardly. All portable Macs have come with built in wireless standard for years now. I'd say 98% or more of Mac users use the built in wireless.
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| | |  R4M0NBrazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA | Re: How many Apple users use 3rd party wireless cards? said by MarkyD:said by Linklist:presenters admitted they modded the hacked laptop, since the original driver that ships from Apple was not vulnerable to the specific attack they were demonstrating. I guess whether Apple laptops are vulnerable or not might depend on how many of them use 3rd party wireless cards in their laptops. Given all the newer wireless products out now promising faster speeds(pre-N, etc), I suspect there may be a reasonable percentage of users that may be vulnerable. nope, hardly. All portable Macs have come with built in wireless standard for years now. I'd say 98% or more of Mac users use the built in wireless. And of those 98%, I'd say:
72% like walks on the beach
45% drink coffe with two cubes of sugar
45% tune in for monday night football
33% are females
10% are criminals
12% like gouda cheese
.5% are allergic to vodka | |
| | | |  felonyguiding you homePremium
join:1999-12-05
Aurora, CO | Re: How many Apple users use 3rd party wireless cards? 12% like gouda cheese
That's no gouda. | |
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| |  photomankcPuffy And PricklyPremium
join:2001-06-13
Liberty, MO | And what would you "say" this based on? | |
| | | | | I think you sort of missed the point of that post. Nobody cares that Macs come with a "built in wireless standard". He was talking about a specific wireless standard, the N standard, that is on the horizon, soon to be released, etc... I would agree that the number of Apple users on 3rd party cards is pretty low at this point, but it's going to go up dramatically sometime soon. | |
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|  sporkmedrop the crantini and move it, sisterPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
 ·Optimum Online
| said by Linklist:I guess whether Apple laptops are vulnerable or not might depend on how many of them use 3rd party wireless cards in their laptops. Given all the newer wireless products out now promising faster speeds(pre-N, etc), I suspect there may be a reasonable percentage of users that may be vulnerable. What amuses me about all this is how even though this same hack works on Windows, that's not news at all. Those guys are used to be rooted left and right I suppose so the focus is whether or not the OS-X drivers from Intel are crap or not. | |
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| | Still vulnerable The OS is still vulnerable, it's like saying Windows is safe, if you don't use 3rd party drivers. With the Windows world, you have so darn many hardware configurations, it's impossible not to use a 3rd party driver. Like I said, the OS is still not secure, if in fact it is letting a 3rd party driver make the OS insecure. This is the point that should be taken in, not a "smear" campaign. Agreed that it's a low percentage, or unlikely, however, the "hole" is there when using these 3rd party drivers - the OS shouldn't allow it, nuff said. | |
|  Matt3All noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Wha? said by Article :
"Cache" has been slammed because the presenters admitted they modded the hacked laptop, since the original driver that ships from Apple was not vulnerable to the specific attack they were demonstrating.
Where is this stated?
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I have tried to see things from your point of view, but no matter how hard I try, or what I do, I just can't get my head that far up my ass. | |
| | | | Re: Wha? At the beginning of their video. They were completely upfront about this in the demonstration video. I think the better question is how is this a scandal, and where is the outrage coming from? | |
| | |  Combat ChuckToo Many CannibalsPremium
join:2001-11-29
Verona, PA | Re: Wha? said by Yauch:and where is the outrage coming from? All the Mac zealots who have been programmed to believe that their machine is like a family member and that Jobs can do no wrong.
I find it ironic that if you say "Mac's can't be upgraded" you get jumped on by the Mac Horde explaining all the ways you can; but then when it comes to a vulnerability such as this is claiming to be the Horde comes forth with "But no one upgrades their Mac's!!!".
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| | | |  c0de
join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA | Re: Wha? i use a Mac at work, and i love it, but it is still limited compared to PCs. I think this 'exploit' is just reassuring people that own Macs that they are invincible... Lets see how well it holds up to my nail gun? | |
| | | |  ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC | said by Combat Chuck:said by Yauch:and where is the outrage coming from? All the Mac zealots who have been programmed to believe that their machine is like a family member and that Jobs can do no wrong. I find it ironic that if you say "Mac's can't be upgraded" you get jumped on by the Mac Horde explaining all the ways you can; but then when it comes to a vulnerability such as this is claiming to be the Horde comes forth with "But no one upgrades their Mac's!!!". What's the point in upgrading something that's perfect already  | |
| | | | |  PakeIf you can read this.... RUN
join:2001-02-22
Huntersville, NC | Re: Wha? said by ifarrell:What's the point in upgrading something that's perfect already Yeah, to think, people actually upgraded their Super Nintendo's to a Playstation, when the SNES was perfect as is! | |
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| | | | | Is that the same bunch, who are in the "whats in your wallet" commercials ? | |
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| | ddaPremium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA | said by Yauch: I think the better question is how is this a scandal, and where is the outrage coming from? The outrage (and scandal) is coming from the report (and followup) by Brian Krebs in his Washington Post blog (»blog.washingtonpost.com/security···eco.html). Both the headline and report make it clear that they were claiming they "hacked a MacBook":
The video shows Ellch and Maynor targeting a specific security flaw in the Macbook's wireless "device driver," the software that allows the internal wireless card to communicate with the underlying OS X operating system. That is followed by the comment about lit cigarettes:
"We're not picking specifically on Macs here, but if you watch those 'Get a Mac' commercials enough, it eventually makes you want to stab one of those users in the eye with a lit cigarette or something," Maynor said. However, after kicking the proverbial hornet's nest, they have not demonstrated any actual attack against a stock MacBook or against the Airport Extreme card; they claim that Apple "leaned on them" to make them use the third-party USB wireless card.
They also claim they've talked to both Apple and Atheros but both companies deny that any flaw has been shown to them. They've clammed up, claiming, "responsible disclosure" but the affected companies claim there is nothing to disclose, let along patch.
John Gruber lays it out pretty well here: »daringfireball.net/2006/08/curious_case | |
| | | | | | Re: Wha? anyone that has worked at an apple helpdesk would probably agree that they are NOT invincible. as far as vulnerable, as a virus/malware programmer. WHY would i waste time writing a program that has a potential of infecting only a teeeeny tiny percentage of the computer owning population. If the tables were reversed and Macs were the most popular, hackers would be focussing their attentions (however short they might be) on it and i can guarantee theyd find flaws. | |
| | | | |  Scott WPremium
join:2003-08-09
Beaverton, OR | Re: Wha? A helpdesk job taught you how to evaluate OS security? Based on what? All the malware rampant on OS X?
Your "security through obscurity" argument is BS. If Windows was secure, it wouldn't matter how many people use it. It's crap, and anyone who has run windows even casually in the past few years knows it. They just won't admit it if the OS is more to them than a computer operating system. If it's somehow tied to their identity or ego, they resort to stupid arguments like the security through obscurity one.
BTW, Linux has disproved that idea.  | |
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| | Spin away from the real problem: batteries, heat, shutdowns WARNING: Rant below. If you are easily offended, well, ain't my fault!
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It's all moot to me. And the zealots on BOTH sides. Macs use more pc parts than ever. PCs are wanting to look like them (LianLi cases, Vista, ...).
Face it, OS X is more like windows, and windows is more like...windows.
As far as in-security, both have problems. And both can be fixed. But the funny part of this is that some hacker had to exploit (intentionally) a mac. And a 3rd party hack.
And TKJunkmail: it's doubtful there are many Powerbook G3 owners that are efficiently surfing the web with an older networkcard.(as ibooks, and later models have Airport card slot or Airport Extreme cards/slot...and not victim of this chipset hack). And if they are, I doubt the hacker would have the patience for such a slow, small storage device running (likely) OS9. (yes, you can install X but please, its cheaper to get a new MacBook then upgrade and bear with a slug). You should check up on your macs before saying that a majority are open to this...
Moot. Instead, this spins away from the bad batteries, the overheating and shutdowns, the stained cases (hurry out the door, we fix later), previous cracked hinges, the odd noises, and the fact that software makers like Adobe are STILL not IntelBinary for the Mactels. Do you hear that you spent $300 less than an equipped Dell? yep. But you don't hear that 85% of the software is emulated in Rosetta. Oh, you can run Windows XP? More work and vulnerability.
I'd rather have a Dell and MacPro than the MacPro only. And where is my Mac Pro? I ordered it when it was announced? parts constraint? Over a month. Well, atleast it's not a Dell XPS...I would never see that. This is news! Delays in the computer age! Products announced and not delivered? BlogSmucks comparing Dell 490's to MacPro and costing more is news? Not price per bang. rant rant ...
(my point is not to pick on one computer or owner or brand. My point is to state that we have had computers for how long and they still aren't self-healing, invulnerable, logistical appliances. Rather, like cars, they are marketed to be obsolete. Who's the tool now? The computer? No, the computer owner...) | |
| | RadioDocYeah, like it matters.Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2 | Re: Spin away from the real problem: batteries, heat, shutdowns "Who's the tool now? The computer? No, the computer owner..."
Bravo.
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 MaggsLife is awesomePremium
join:2002-11-29
Woodside, NY | Well put! The computer user is a tool. We need to upgrade and update every 5 years or so.
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