 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Simple Solution <sarcasm>
Never use FIOS!
</sarcasm>
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: Simple Solution I could care less about landlines, and would gladly accept fios. i'll just use my cellphone if power goes out. most towers around here have battery/diesel backup anyways | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
1 edit | Re: Simple Solution said by 53059959  :i'll just use my cellphone if power goes out. That may help in a short term small area outtage but don't count on it during an actual emergency. Last time we had a real emergency here the celphones were all jammed. They were even anouncing on the radio for people to stop trying to use their celphones because the police and fire departments need them, my POTS line worked fine and there was plenty of circuits avaialble. | |
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| | | Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI | Re: Simple Solution That's because an AT&T building there was literally burning for a while, and a lot of landlines and cablesystems were knocked out entirely from it. That was a fun day to work for AT&T | |
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| | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
3 edits | Re: Simple Solution said by Primis1 :That's because an AT&T building there was literally burning for a while, and a lot of landlines and cablesystems were knocked out entirely from it. That was a fun day to work for AT&T Nope not the emergency I was talking about.
This »www.historylink.org/essays/outpu···_id=5468 is the emergency I was refering to. No telephone lines, cable lines, AT&T buildings, or cel towers were involved. But every celphone provider was useless simply because the system was overloaded. | |
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| | | | | tperl
join:2005-11-15
Blacklick, OH | Re: Simple Solution I did not have a cell phone back in 1999. | |
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| | | | | | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Simple Solution said by tperl :I did not have a cell phone back in 1999. Neither did I, now you do, I do and pretty much everyone else does too. Thats just going to lead to cel-system overload even faster in times of emergency | |
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tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
clubs: | Re: Simple Solution they also have more capacity nowadays... | |
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runciter
join:2000-07-22
Centreville, VA
clubs:
| said by tperl :I did not have a cell phone back in 1999. I did. This is a fun game. I did not have cell phone in 1995. | |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| Ah so the outage in Texas was related to that fire eh..
Could of swore Ma Bell said it was something else lol.
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FIOS chat »www.fioschat.com MacChatter »www.macchatter.com | |
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helpertck
@verizon.net | just unhook the battery until you need to use the phone. That way the battery is not drained and it will have a charge when you need it. When the power come back on, hook the battery back up. | |
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| | | xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
| said by b10010011 :said by 53059959 :i'll just use my cellphone if power goes out. That may help in a short term small area outtage but don't count on it during an actual emergency. Last time we had a real emergency here the celphones were all jammed. They were even anouncing on the radio for people to stop trying to use their celphones because the police and fire departments need them, my POTS line worked fine and there was plenty of circuits avaialble. During the huge power otage here, I couldn't get through via landline, but my cell phone worked perfectly. Just because it goes one way one time, doesn't mean it'll always be that way. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by 53059959 :I could care less about landlines, and would gladly accept fios. Exactly. Those people who cannot accept the risks of FIOS should avoid the technology altogether and stop getting in the way of us who want this service.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: Simple Solution Nice troll, again. I'll bite.
I don't see anyone trying to stop FIOS deployment (so you can't get the service). I see legitimate complaints about the service itself which, hopefully, will be a reason to make the service even better.
As the OP in the quote points out, some folks may not have a choice if VZ decides to remove all copper from a given area - essentially forcing a move to FIOS.
It's funny...well, more lame, that the workaround for a dead FIOS box is to rely on the cellphone. The two, hugely flawed, assumptions are everyone has or can afford a cellphone and that everyone can get reception at their house.
Not much of a workaround, that. Until FIOS can maintain the same uptime as POTS, VZ should certainly NOT force it and, in the least, be truthful about the potential risks.
KM
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Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
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Smokey
Even drunk on a bet ya make it to Canada
Premium
join:2003-05-20
Va Beach
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: Simple Solution I agree. If VZ is trying to hype this service as "The next step" in telecom, they need to enable it to perform at a level that is truly worthy of a next step. As history tells us, 4 hours is no where near enough time to get a power outage repaired.
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Para Bellum!! | |
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FiberGuru
@com.au
| Re: Simple Solution Actually I think you need to look at some of the world statistics on power outages. Less than 1% outages last longer than 4 hours, so a four hour backup will service the majority of outages.
The 1% which are longer than 4 hours are the exceptional and usually occur only every few years. Now who's fault is that VZs or the power company.
I think you have a few more issues to consider than not having access to a landline telephone.
When you consider all the factors (cell phone, outage duration, take up rates on cell phones etc), very few people are going to be without some form of communication. | |
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WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.
join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY
·Verizon FIOS
4 edits | yes, fiber needs power on both ends... FiOS has been around for well over a year now and with regard to the backup battery, it was the same then as it is now. The system includes a small battery to provide backup power to the ONT which allows phone calls for a short time in case of power failures. No, the battery doesn't last forever. Yes, you can use your own UPS if you want to provide power to your ONT and phones for a longer period in case of power failure.
umm... will someone please tell me why is this news?
broadband reports soon to change name to the "no duh forum."
why not post a news item about gravity?
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Experience one of the most beautiful women on earth at PetraCentral! | |
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SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: yes, fiber needs power on both ends... You're right. This is "old hat". Anyone served by PairGain or LiteSpan (ie: fiber) from RT w/o a generator set is in the same boat - and have been for DECADES. This is the "state of the art" right now. Eventually, I suppose someone will come up with some sort of photovoltaic interface to the fiber and solve this huge(?) problem. | |
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| | bgoodbody
join:2002-05-08
North Truro, MA | Re: yes, fiber needs power on both ends... Then it will only work in the day time
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| | | BigDaddy05
join:2004-04-02
Carrollton, TX
| Re: yes, fiber needs power on both ends... Or at night, assuming that the installer is bright enough to have it not only power the ONT, but also recharge the batteries.
Since photovoltaic cells are DC, it would be easy to have them power the batteries, which would in turn power the ONT. Any excess power would then also charge the battries to provide coverage at night. | |
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| no_coin
join:2002-10-17
Tyngsboro, MA | So who chooses the BBR headlines anyway?
Definitely old news. A small issue blown out of proportion. | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: yes, fiber needs power on both ends... I do, and have, since 2000. Have a broadband specific story you find more interesting than this issue? Submit it here. | |
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Toadman
How do you like these Apples
join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH | Fios Weaknesses Every technology will eventually go down in an extended power failure. Don't believe me, ask New Orleans.
The best solution is smoke signals! | |
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| markopoleo
join:2003-04-02
Bonne Terre, MO | Re: Fios Weaknesses Well Cell phone service was down just a couple hours after Katrina hit. It worked fine there for the most part. | |
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| | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| Re: Fios Weaknesses In New Orleans?
Most cell providers lost complete service for over a week in the metro area. A few had spotty but available service. Fiber rings for most of the providers were shattered at multple points. Cingular I know for a fact didn't work from Slidell to Robert. At the western edge of Robert text messaging worked but voice was too flaky. In the city itself there were only a few providers able to rovide any type of service but they struggled to keep up as their networks were slammed | |
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inurenegade
join:2006-06-11
Wilmington, DE | Stupid question why not take the old POTS line and use that as a backup power source for fios i mean its already there right? and i doubt that ont thing doesnt use too much power | |
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See 26 replies to this post |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS
| Wait! You mean there is no QoS or Power-neutrality laws!!! OMG!
Hey, send me $200 and I'll send you a used but working APC Backups 1000. That should get you a few days of juice standby.
(new battery not included)
(I've a 1400va UPS for my UPS, do you?)  | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | Easy solution Nothing a few bucks wont fix...
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Meet Bill and Karolyn at www.theslowskys.com | |
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Jeffrey
too dark too early
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Dix Hills,NY
clubs:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Vonage
·magicjack.com
| Re: Easy solution said by ib50MbSoon :Nothing a few bucks wont fix... (photo of nice honda equipment removed) Good point. Since we're all talking about why they remove the copper / don't use it, let's focus on fixing the problem at hand.
First, you can bet that Verizon (god love them) won't fix this unless they absolutely have to, by law.
And if the Government gets involved, you can bet it will be a long time before it's addressed unless they can prove that Verizon is guilty of gross negligence by the BBU provided and its alleged battery life.
So, let's decide how to fix this ourselves. It's my understanding that we can attach a larger BBU from Belkin or whoever you like up to the Verizon BBU. Now, can we agree that an extended power outage can be considered, say, 7 days? Even if the power outage of 2003 I was without power for less than 48 hours, and I thought that was pretty bad. Sure, some people in Florida and the Gulf lost power for weeks, but hurricanes are extreme circumstances and one really can't plan too well for those. You can however, plan for the 1-7 day outages, should they occur.
So, my question is this. To those that have Fios, what size/model BBU would I need to buy to hookup to my Verizon-provided BBU to power the phone for a week, of which I could get say 24 hours of talk time out of those 168 total hours? (24hrs * 7 days = 168 hours).
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"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your forsight becomes a nimble vagrant."
[Blog] [Gallery] | |
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| ajanis
join:2004-10-19
Oswego, IL
| Even better: | |
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| | subman87
Another day in the Brentwood
join:2000-11-24
Harrison, NY | Re: Easy solution
works for me! | |
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Thrudd
join:2004-06-21
Mississauga, ON
| Not a Fios person Call me silly, but why the heck did they yank the copper in the first place unless its to make some bucks on the salvage?
I find it the height of absurdity to put in the labour needed to yank the stuff, especially when the fibre is mostly installed where the copper used to be. That and the fibre system has no built-in backup if mains goes down.
Keeping the centralized backup systems would have been less pain and hassle in the long run than the cheap-ass user end backup power systems.
Here is hoping/praying my provider doesn't follow their path. | |
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luminaire
Premium
join:2005-03-22
Oakville, ON
clubs:
| Old news This was already posted as part of an older article. It was old news then and it's old news now. If it matters so much that you have a phone during an extended outage get a cell phone. If you don't like that get a battery or a generator like previously recommended. fios is more good then bad, and the bad is easily correctable. | |
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Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey
·Comcast
| Why? Why do they yank the copper?? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard an industry doing and I'm sure turns many off making the switch.
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The most courageous thing you can do is be honest.
The weight of a tongue can destroy a person. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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Bobcat
Premium
join:2001-02-04
Bedminster, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
| This is funny My cable company's batteries die in less than an hour and that's not worthy of the news, but we have people running around like chickens without heads because Fios' batteries only last 4-8 hours.  | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | Same goes for Comcast's digital phone service! They put a little box on your house with a battery in it. It lasts just about as long as the battery in the FIOS box.
If you want reliablity then stick with POTS.  | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY | LOL and what's up with cable? I have yet to see TWCNYC to install battery for my cable modem...
It's more than interesting that FIOS has to have everything whereas nobody complains about the total lack of backup power in case of cable or DSL modems. | |
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LeftOfSanity
join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE | Re: LOL and what's up with cable?
Regualer modems dont have backup batteries. Only the telephony modems.
RTFA. | |
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skeebs
@utc.com | Re: LOL and what's up with cable? I'll bet that clogs up the tubes. | |
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| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| There is a slight difference. Most folks expect Bell phone service to be up and running no matter what and it is suprised when this new FIOs phone service sold to them by Verizon isn't up to same reliability mark. Cable doesn't have the same reputation. I personally think anybody who gets FIOS installed and then complains about battery backup is a complete idiot. This has been cleary written about over and over yet you still get folks complaining. In my case during the hurricanes a couple of years ago we had no power for 4 days but my phone service never went down.
The problem you have here is that like any product when you start to see it go more mainstream you start to get more complaints from the not so techy crowd.
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A shotgun blast to the head will clear that right up. | |
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Corona
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Aubrey, TX | SIGH Old news is news again.....here at DSLR.
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d00mz | |
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inurenegade
join:2006-06-11
Wilmington, DE | how much power do POTS lines have? why keep your copper just for the same old phone
USE THE OLD COPPER AS POWER SOURCE FOR FIOS
if its already there leave it | |
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Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs: | It seems like This is the same old news from what 3-4 months ago?
my guess a Comcast Tech keeps bumping the news up.
Grow the F*** up! | |
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| JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Re: It seems like said by Subaru :This is the same old news from what 3-4 months ago? my guess a Comcast Tech keeps bumping the news up. Grow the F*** up! Yea I'm sure it was a Comcast tech.
Hey genius! Comcast digital voice also uses a battery backup.
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A shotgun blast to the head will clear that right up. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| a good idea.. yes, using the pots copper as an emergency backup sort of defeats part of the purpose of running pots over fiber.. the power that it takes to get you the signal via FTTP is well over 90% more efficient for them power-wise than traditional copper power requirements. I'm almost sure the triple play is about the same as traditional copper to deliver 3 services on the original power requirements. The cost savings is Verizon's gain, but your loss, as you are required to supply power to get service.
But we need a revolution the way we generate energy in this country.. it simply costs too much, is vastly vulnerable to damage, cascading failures, natural and other disasters, etc?
Why have we not seen industrial scale diesel generators converted or supplemented by similar renewable energy such as hydrogen, ethanol and bio fuels?
Laziness, and mortaged souls to the oil industries, etc..
Verizon is pioneering hydrogen powered mega central offices to essentially run major strategic parts of its network. Wouldn't be surprised if they convert their fleet of vehicles to alternative fuel as well eventually. | |
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vzinfo
@bellatlantic.com
| biased post 1. It seems anytime broadbandreports can post something negative about Verizon, they do. Are the on the cable companies dime?
2. Do cable providers provide backup batteries for their telephone offerings? Do VOIP providers? No, and the people that take those services don't complain because they understand that's the way the service is. Next time BBR wants to post this as news for the umpteenth time why not post that cable and voip providers don't have backup period and that itself makes FiOS the superior offering.
3. Verizon yanks the old copper out only if its an aerial feed, not when its buried. (Buried is usually just cut down to the ground, but it stays buried). The aerial copper drops are recycled by many techs who dump them in a particular area at their respective garages where Verizon recycles the copper.
4. Leaving the old copper makes the poles look messier than they already are, and this is a small way of cleaning up. It does not block out CLECs entirely, but the CLEC does have to pay if they want Verizon to but a copper drop back up, so the CLECs don't get a free ride anymore as far as the drop from the pole to the house, many CLECs opt not to pay the fee Verizon charges to place a new copper drop and therefore they either tell the customer they have to pay for the install or they say they can't provide service. | |
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| Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| Re: biased post By free ride I assume you mean the fee they paid Verizon to use their network in which Verizon made money from (as in profit)? That kind of free ride?
The same kind of free ride that Google is on right now as with speak with all the ILEC's bandwidth right?
Just out of curiousity with all this deregulation, is anyone regulating what Verizon is charging these CLECs to get that drop back in for a customer? As in, is someone making sure they are not pricing it out of reach for the CLECs to turn a profit? | |
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| b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
1 edit | said by vzinfo :
2. Do cable providers provide backup batteries for their telephone offerings? YES they do I happen to work for one of the compnaies that supply them to the cable company. | |
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vzofni
@verizon.net
| 1. I haven't noticed an anti-Verizon bias on BBR but even if there were one why do you care so much? Are you on Verizon's dime?
2. POTS customers (which makes up the vast majority of the country) are accustomed to their telephone working even in the event of extended power outages. If this is changing (and particularly if this is changing without many of them realizing that it's changing), that is indeed news.
3. My, you certainly seem to know a lot about Verizon's practices with regard to copper. I think you've unintentionally answered question #1.
4. Yeah, sure, removing the old copper is about making sure things don't look "messy". As far as the CLECs getting a "free ride", the ILECs enjoyed a free ride of their own for a long time and perhaps you've heard about it -- it's called a "monopoly". | |
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vzinfo
@verizon.net
| Re: biased post 1. I haven't noticed an anti-Verizon bias on BBR but even if there were one why do you care so much? Are you on Verizon's dime Yes I am, however you will not find one negative comment that I've made about a competitor, I only try to clarify some issues and provide information about some things that Verizon does.
2. To the poster that said cable companies provide battery backup, can you clarify if it is a battery backup at the customer's home to keep the phones running or is it to just keep the cable plant going? I really am curious because I wasn't aware that cable companies provided a battery backup at the customer premise similar to Verizon. I thought if a customer lost power, the cable modem was knocked out (if no UPS) and therefore no phone service. Does cable install a battery backup that keeps the voice portion of the cable modem going? I do know cable puts in battery backups for their own outside plant but I honestly didn't know (and still haven't seen one) for the customer's home, however, my knowledge is limited to just the cable companies in my area.
3. Many CLECs got a free ride by making false claims to the FCC and living off the fines (those companies could have never kept afloat on a legit business model), they also get a free ride by not having the costs associated with technicians, vehicles, insurance, fuel costs, tools, etc. What the CLECs pay Verizon is nowhere near what it would cost the CLEC itself to have all that overhead, so in that sense they get a free ride. (Hence why the Supreme Court shot down the FCC line sharing rules 3 times in favor of the ILECs). I'm not saying Verizon is 100% pure, because they're not, but most people consider them to be the devil without knowing all the facts. If the CLECs weren't getting a free ride, how come none of them were interested in any of the access lines Verizon is selling? Because they're not profitable, so if Verizon's not making a profit on those lines, how could they be profitting from the CLECs?
4. The whole telco monopoly claim is overused. Certain things are just natural monopolies. Cable is one of them. Just as telco gets competition from voip, cellphones, e-mail, instant messages. Cable gets competition from satellite, terrestial broadcast, iptv, and telcotv. The economics of the market simply don't allow many companies to be profitable by being overbuilders, hence no incumbent treads too much on another incumbents turf. The only real source of competition comes from other technologies that can effectively satisfy users needs. What percentage of the U.S. has a choice of two gas heat providers? (That have their own infrastructure) But you do have a choice between oil heat vs. gas heat. Where can you find two electric providers? (Both with their own infrastructure). But you can choose solar power. 2 Water companies? But you can choose to have well water. 2 sewer companies? But you can have septic. The point is that competition in certain things can only come from different technologies, and not necessarily from another provider "sharing" infrastructure that the other one built. Its like telling UPS to let FEDEX use UPS trucks and they only have to pay for the gas. A business model like that just doesn't work, and I wouldn't expect UPS to just welcome FEDEX to use their trucks, hence I wouldn't expect any company, Verizon included, to just be overwhelmed with joy at letting another company "lease" their lines at below retail rates. That's like the government telling me that I have to rent a room in my house (even if I don't want to), and I can't charge more than a certain amount. The free market is better at providing competition than the government is. Why is their competition in cellphones? Because the government kept their nose out of it. Why is there competition on the Internet? Because the government kept their nose out of it.
I've said all I wanted to say, its just my opinion, you are entitled to yours, sorry if I bored anyone with the post, feel free to disagree and express yourself, but I probably won't reply to any more comments because I think its ok to agree to disagree. | |
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Shamayim
I already have a Messiah.
Premium
join:2002-09-23
| News, schmooze Corona sighed: "Old news is news again.....here at DSLR."
Old news to some is NEW news to others.
Nothing for you to see here? Move on folks.
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"tick...tick...tick..." »www.jtf.org/ | |
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Info4U
@verizon.net
| Info 4-8 hours sounds about right. Motorola is working on a ONT that has a standby mode that will put the ONT into a sleep/hibernate mode when the power goes out. The ONT will wake when the consumer picks up the phone. I would not be surprised if this feature extended the unpowered ONT from 4-8 hours to MANY weeks. Incoming calls would not work obvously.
Also, my understanding is that Verizon does not Garantee incoming (when operating on batteries) calls since some customers may have older, or too many, sets that require more ringing current than the battery operating ONT can put out. This is similar to the TA adapter on VOIP providers. | |
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napilus
join:2006-03-26
Hillsboro, OR
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Info There is not enough juice in the battery to get ring voltage. And I think it should be pointed out again that comcrap digital voice and all voip services have no battery backup capability. Fios is absolutely the best alternative to cable and dsl, you get business class speeds for 34.95 a month. | |
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| | canuck999999
join:2004-04-19
·MTS
| Re: Info I can see Vonage not having a battery backup simply because it requires you internet to work and if you modem is dead then there is no point in powering their phone adapter/router . Comcast I am surprised at though, one would think that they would be smart enough to use a phone adapter with battery backup capabilities. | |
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| | HyPeRbAnD
join:2006-01-07
Stow, MA
| You are incorrect about Comcrap and all VoIP services not having battery backup. Comcrap like Charter and other cable co's do offer a battery backup.
I cannot speak for every area with VoIP service, but I can tell you in my area battery backup is provided. | |
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Fios's Weak Link: The Power Outage
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