 | | Thats Cool! That's pretty cool
Is this a good idea for small towns & if not why?
Are you upset this was paid for with some of your tax dollars rather than private industry? | |
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 | Warez_ZealotRural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan | Re: Thats Cool! Isnt that the purpose of taxes? It's suppoesd to go back into the comunity, not companies and politicians. and $500 000 of tax money is nothing compared to what is stolen in defence and disaster relief funds (paid by tax payers). | |
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|  royhandyPanem et circensesPremium
join:2000-05-23
Yesterday | Am I upset that federal dollars were used for this? Not at all. Apparently private industry was not lining up to offer these folks a viable broadband alternative.
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let the world dream otherwise | |
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| | | | Re: Thats Cool! And therefore its the federal governments responsibility to provide this???!!!! How about all those who don't have a car too, have the feds give them one since "private industry" (read car dealerships) won't provide one for them. Oh and make mine a Mercedes while you're at it. Since the feds are paying for it I might as well drive in style.
What a BS argument. | |
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| | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Thats Cool! said by Jamuka:And therefore its the federal governments responsibility to provide this???!!!! How about all those who don't have a car too, have the feds give them one since "private industry" (read car dealerships) won't provide one for them. Oh and make mine a Mercedes while you're at it. Since the feds are paying for it I might as well drive in style. What a BS argument. At least people can go to a car dealership and BUY a car if they want. It's not like these folks have broadband available to them but just don't want to pay for it.
I for one am glad to see my tax dollars FINALLY being used for something worthy of the 1/3rd of my salary taken from me each month.
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I have tried to see things from your point of view, but no matter how hard I try, or what I do, I just can't get my head that far up my ass. | |
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| | |  PhoenixDown-- Wants FIOSPremium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
kudos:1 | quote:
How about all those who don't have a car too, have the feds give them one since "private industry" (read car dealerships) won't provide one for them
They did, its called mass transit.
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Mass Transit Sucks! | |
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| | | |  53059959Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: Thats Cool! owned | |
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| | | | | | Mass transmit is owned and operated by the local governments. The federal government does not own or operate it. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Thats Cool! Correct.
However, the federal government provides grants to cities based on polution control efforts. Mass transit is a big deal for getting federal grants.
If it werent for federal grants, my local transit would not exist. | |
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| | | | | Your comment is BS. The tax money goes toward helping the community. Giving someone a Car is totally different, DUH, whack | |
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1 edit | Re: Thats Cool! 200 people paying taxes for 10 years means only 250$ per person in grants. Now think about this 100$ per month for internet, phone, and cable. Let's say 20% of that goes toward repaying the 500,000. That is one year and you are in the clear. I'm usually against more government squabling of our tax money, but think of it this way it was either this or some highway in Alaska. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Thats Cool! Hmmmm... Highway in Alaska... You folks seem to like our oil.. How about we cut it off and let ya freeze this winter?  Better yet,how about we leave the union, nationalize the oil fields and join OPEC? I bet them roads and high speed internet will keep you warm this winter..
Seriously though, take Alaska and split it down the middle (for you folks with small minds, the same distance in comparison would be from Colorado to California). Everything on the left hand side has no fibre infrastructure, no highways. Everything is done over sat connections, boats and airplanes are the mode of long distance transportation. The right side has the road and data infrastructure. | |
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| | | | | |  Netbum
join:2002-04-08
Oakley, CA | Re: Thats Cool! said by Herman Nelson :Hmmmm... Highway in Alaska... "You" folks seem to like "our" oil.. How about we cut it off and let ya freeze this winter? Better yet,how about we leave the union, nationalize the oil fields and join OPEC? I bet them roads and high speed internet will keep you warm this winter.. "You" "our"? 
How bout "we" give "you" back to Russia?  | |
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| | |  BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | said by Jamuka:And therefore its the federal governments responsibility to provide this???!!!! How about all those who don't have a car too, have the feds give them one since "private industry" (read car dealerships) won't provide one for them. Oh and make mine a Mercedes while you're at it. Since the feds are paying for it I might as well drive in style. What a BS argument. What do you think the USF fee you pay evey month on your phone bill is going for? If they aren't going to use it I would like that money back.
I'm 100% posistive that you local town/city gets federal dollars for questionable projects and I doubt you have any issue with those wasted tax dollars. | |
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| | | said by Techie714:That's pretty cool Is this a good idea for small towns & if not why? Are you upset this was paid for with some of your tax dollars rather than private industry? I would be more upset if a private entity came in and stopped this project on the "promise" that they would be served in the future. | |
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| | | | Re: Thats Cool!
The federal govenment gives grants of money all the time for such things as roads, bridges, etc. It's what federal programs are for and it's what's supposed to happen with tax money coming backi to states and municipalities.
I'm delighted to see that this town took the initiative and partnered with the local phone co op to get this done. There are, I'm sure, many other towns that could do this very same thing, instead of whining about franchise money and dicking with/around the telcos and cablecos.
If more towns like this and larger took the initiative it would take the bargaining wind out of the incumbents sails and they'd quit dicking us around. | |
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| | |  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 | Re: Thats Cool! said by Fatal Vector:The federal govenment gives grants of money all the time for such things as roads, bridges, etc. It's what federal programs are for and it's what's supposed to happen with tax money coming backi to states and municipalities. Well, the problem I have with that $585,000 federal grant that they gave back to the local community is that they probably had to collect $750,000(I'm being conservative here) to fund all the federal bureaucratic slugs that sucked out the difference to manage the program. Multiply this 1 billion times and that is why the federal government should stay out of state and local funding. The Feds should stick to national defense and international political relations and stay out of everything else.
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Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | | Re: Thats Cool! All in all it seems like a drop in the bucket, the principle of the matter may be a little bad, but I think the price is actually not to bad for what the town has probably paid in taxes over the years. That and it will probably pay for itself rather soon. See my above post on the numbers. It was either this or some highway in Alaska. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| We have all seen what happens when the Feds (current leaders) get into the international political relations; a damn war is started for what; the stupid idiot was elected wanted to get revenge at a guy that tried to kill his dad 14+ years ago, and thinks he can become King of the world. So what's the difference of bombing a country that we're just rebuilding then giving the money back to the people that actually paid it? Not a damn thing. At least these people have a real use for it.
We'll today we all seen in the news what happens when 1 person tries to play King, They step down or threaten to get fired by the Queen. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Thats Cool! "We have all seen what happens when the Feds (current leaders) get into the international political relations; a damn war is started for what; the stupid idiot was elected wanted to get revenge at a guy that tried to kill his dad 14+ years ago, and thinks he can become King of the world. So what's the difference of bombing a country that we're just rebuilding then giving the money back to the people that actually paid it? Not a damn thing. At least these people have a real use for it.
We'll today we all seen in the news what happens when 1 person tries to play King, They step down or threaten to get fired by the Queen."
You liberals just cant see anything through your hate, can you? Youll take any opportunity to repeat this stupid stuff and you dont seem to realize that it just makes YOU look stupid.
I'm not going to be redundant here about Iraq or this revenge idiocy, because it obviously has failed to penetrate.
Really, you should be embarassed to post stuff like this. | |
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| | | »www.usconstitution.net/const.html
I have read the entire US Constitution, and I cannot find a single passage in it authorizing the federal government to do this. The only thing that applies to this is an implicit ban against it in the 10th ammendment, which would make this a gross misappropriation of funds and an indication of massive corruption in the federal government. I am not surprised. The Democratic party started this back in 1932 with FDR and it continues to this day. The Department of Agriculture was established under FDR. It was intended to supply the US troops in Europe with food, a time during which it was Constitutional because it coordinated logistics for the military. After the war, it was no longer necessary, yet it stayed in the federal government, taking on roles other than logistics for the military and therefore becoming Unconstitutional. It should be dismantled, and if anyone wants to take a stab at President Bush, his failure to dismantle the Department of Agriculture is one of the best ways to do it. Grilling him over his failure to dismantle The Department of Education (school subsides like NCLB, loans, paying property taxes to local and state governments on property taken by eminent domain, etcetera; all in violation of the 10th ammendment and therefore unconstitutional), Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are other ways to take a stab at him. | |
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| |  M A R KPremium
join:2001-06-15
Long Island
·Optimum Online
| Re: Thats Cool! But its ok to take money and blow the head off some infants in Iraq right? Or how about using our tax money to support Israel or free health and schooling care for 15,000,000 illegal aliens. Or even better yet, take the army out of Afghanistan where UBL and the Taliban are and send them to Iraq where noting is but oil and at the same time keep yelling 9/11 every chance you get.
I think is much better to fund public works projects in out home land.
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DEATH TO 'ZOG' | |
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| | | like i read all over this i agree that some of you are jealous. i live in a small town in upstate new york. we pay our taxes just as you do. and in nys we have some of the highest taxes in the u.s. and not all of us here in nys live in nyc. i hate when you tell people you live in nys and they automatically assume that your from nyc. just because 9 million people live there doesnt mean im one of the 9 million, im one of the 30 million in nys who dont. but anyways. my local telco, Taconic which is owned by FairPoint communications is currently laying fiber optics along the roadway so that they can initiate their fiber to the home plan. it is the best thing in the world. see you guys who live in major cities already have access to tons of high-speed providers. where i live it was like 20kbps dial-up. yea. until about 2 years ago. then the one and only dsl option came from the local telco. and the cost is $50 a month for 256/128 .. so yes.. dont complain. our ftth will mean lower costs to us. and speeds that we have never seen. if you city boys want those faster speeds then move your a$$ out here and stop crying because you think its wrong that small town people get something better then what you have.. you could also get off your lazy a$$ and go to your town/city and tell them you want ftth or write a letter to your telco/cable company. and im pretty sure you wont do any of that so stop complaining. and since my telco is over 100 years old, they replaced their copper in 1990 and increased their fiber in 1990 also, that means its time for an upgrade and with the cost of copper, fiber is a more viable solution. its not my problem that the cities layed their fiber like 10 years ago and to them it is still considered new. so you will have to wait a couple more years and they will begin replacing your fiber again.
wow. | |
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| | Techs? I always wonder who runs these networks in small towns. I don't mean to stereotype, but how good can these telecom techs be if they're living in the middle of nowhere? | |
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|  N3OGHCertified GLG-20Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Techs? Some people like living in the sticks.
I would live in the sticks, if I could find work there. If I were a telcom/network tech I would love to live someplace like this.
My home was rural when we moved there. The housing boom fixed that. Now, instead of having 1000 or so "fellow townfolk" I have 10,500 self important jerks who seem to think giving you the finger is the way to say howdy neighbor.
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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| | | Sometimes they're good, sometimes they're not.
Does living in a small town automatically mean a person is an idiot? | |
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| |  viperpa33sWhy Me?Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL | Re: Techs? I live in what use to be considered the sticks a long time ago. You have a nice quiet atmosphere without all the hustle of city life. Many tech people like myself commutes to the city from the sticks. The town I live in has excellent schools compared to city schools.
As I said before, if the Telco's or the cable companies refuse to wire a town cause it's not in there best interests, then the town should have other alternatives left to them. | |
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| | shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR | I agree with you karl because you live in a small town does not make you an idiot. I think it makes alot of sence most of the times cost of living is less, traffic is less, noise is less, I like having more than 10 feet between me and my neighbor. Funny thing is one of my co-workers did not want to move to a small town area and chose to live in "the place to be" area due to the fact it is so close to work and the status. Turns out I get about the same house for about 30-40% cheaper and my drive is 5 mins less than his I still chuckle about that one. Still only takes me 22 mins to get to work with traffic to the downtown area. Yay suburbs lol. | |
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| | | Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Techs? This country, particularly its urban and super suburban residents, have a fear of rural America. Note the endless slasher flick where some urbanite winds up in a place with a lot of trees and gets hacked apart.
But bringing fiber to these towns, blended with telecommuting, will hopefully disperse some of the population and industry in the country. I believe rural America will be the place to be over the next 20 years. | |
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| | | |  SabreDi relung hatiku bernyanyi bidadari
join:2005-05-17 | Re: Techs? You may well be right Karl.
I moved closer to the city because it was the only place I could both afford and find a job in. I seriously considered a move to far western Maryland (Allegany county) or West Virginia (Mineral county) when I had a couple potential job offers out there. They didn't quite pan out, but I for one would be intrigued by moving to a very rural area if I could still have a solid, well-paying, reliable tech job.
Let's see what happens.
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With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. | |
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| | | N3OGHCertified GLG-20Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Cost of living (as you mentioned) is another thing a lot of people overlook when taking rural living into consideration. Just about (not everything) is cheaper. Houses, car insurance, shorter commute if you work local. Often, taxes are lower.
And given the mail order-ability of everything, living out of the way is a lot easier than it used to be.
I think I'm one step closer to selling my "suburban" house and moving outward.
It was what my parents did when they were my age....
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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| | | | shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR | Re: Techs? well in our area the property taxes are about half what they are in the neighboring county from the areas that I was looking at. I remember seeing something on one of those primetime type news shows of it was either kansas or nebraska that some company pulled their outsourcing from overseas and "out sourced" it to rural america corn field land. They wired their company up and got off cheaper by keeping it in the country and offering the jobs to lower cost of living areas. I also see rural america becoming a potential boom. A lot of small towns are expanding county airports and becoming shipping hubs which pulls the flight traffic out of urban areas and makes it quicker to get the trucks rolling out to ship things. A lot of people discount what broadband can do for businesses. If you take the direction that the gaming industry is going with digital downloads and online content driving their next generation of gaming consoles. They are going to miss out on a HUGE chunk of money due to people not being HSI served. I know for a fact Sony online entertainment (SOE) has lost about $250 dollars a year from me alone since I have such a hard time playing online with dial up. The numbers were from the yearly subscription fees and the adventure packs i was buying before I moved. not counting the expansions that are 30-40 dollars each. Then there is Blizzard that has lost about $180 dollars a year also due to lack of HSI. Then there is tons of advertising that is not funneled to me since I can not visit many of the increasing HSI friendly websites. Take for instance a lot of people will not see the webisode bridge for battlestar galatica between season 2 and 3 due to dial up. I sometimes wonder why companies don't put more of a heavy lean on the telco's and cable companies to deploy to un served areas which is causing them to lose out on potential revenue. I can guarantee that I would be putting at least $1000 of my disposable money out there to companies a year if I was served by anything other than 24.4 k dial up don't say satellite my area is not accepting anymore subscribers at this time. I know I don't use iTunes due to the dial up. Sorry for long post | |
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| | | It means the talent pool is smaller. I'd love to live out a bit in the country. Housing is cheaper, it usually the infrastructure that prevents people from moving there. If more small towns developed their infrastructure in this fashion I think there'd be even more of a migration to the sticks. | |
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| | rfnutPremium
join:2002-04-27
Fisher, IL | Re: Techs? Then, after the migration, the "sticks" are no longer the sticks". | |
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cptmilesPremium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN | Don't Be Suprised I live and work in rural Indiana as a telco manager. We have been doing FTTP for the last 2 years. You would be surprised how many of us "little guys" can kick the crap out of the big boys. With the cost of copper going through the roof lately if any small telco is needing to upgrade their plant it makes no sense to do it any other way than with fiber. This story will be old hat by the end of next year.
I think we are at a similar point in our history as in the 50s and 60s when the telephone companies converted from the old magneto systems and steel wire to steppers and copper. Now we are moving to soft switches and fiber. Progress!!! | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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| | What technology do small towns use? When you read about all of these small towns deploying fiber, what technology over the fiber are they using? BPON, GPON, HFC Overlay, IPTV, PPPoE, DHCP, etc... Is this similar to Verizon Fios technology using compatible ONT's? | |
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| | | Re: What technology do small towns use? dam i wish my small town would do this. we have one tiny post office and a convenient(sP?) store. any longer on 56k and im going to have to be shipped off to the nut house. i say good for them | |
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| cptmilesPremium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN | We are using OSI (Optical Solutions) who have just been bought out by Calix in one of our exchanges using GPON solution. In one of our other exchanges we will be using OCCAM. We have been using OCCAM ADSL2+ and they have a product that we will be able to convert subs to their active fiber product. The OCCAM is not GPON but considered "Point to Point GigE." We are also looking at Wave 7 as well for GPON and EPON. For a reference of size we have about 8200 access lines of which 900 are being fiber fed and growing (11%).
We do not do PPPoE and we are doing both RF overlay and IPTV for cable service. Verizon is doing BPON and is desperately looking to make a break into GPON from my understanding so like many small telcos we are way ahead of their curve.
I have a friend who operates s similar sized company in Rochester, IN and they expect to be 100% FTTP in the next few years. They call it "Fiber to the Edge of the World." | |
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1 edit |  Where is the outrage?
"A Nation of Sheep Will Beget a Government of Wolves." -Edward R. Murrow | |
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See 21 replies to this post |
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| | Small Town Living Shoot, I'd live in a small town in a heart beat! But, like one of you guys mentioned, it's the infrastructure that keeps me in the suburbs. I'm not a city slicker, but I like having the comforts of city living close by. If small towns could keep their on par with suburban towns, I wouldn't bat an eye about living in rural america. And no, you're not an idiot if you live in a small town. | |
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| | ~$2300 per person for FTTP! sounds good to me.
total project cost, ~$1.1 million/435 residents=~$2300
Of that amount, ~$600,000 was federal grant.
Total U.S. population, ~300 million.
Cost per person for this subsidy: ~0.2 cents/person
I am not seeing the problem here.
If there is a problem, there are other much larger problems that deserve citizens' attention first.
E.g., the Iraq war is above $300 billion
»nationalpriorities.org/index.php···emid=182
(~$1000 / citizen or 500,000 times the cost/citizen of the federal grant to Nickelsville, VA) | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| | Roll Out the (Congressional Pork) Barrel Pokka Wonder why we have trillions in federal debt, it is pork barrel spending not Defense spending. Nickelsville Fiber Optic Network is the broadband version of a “Bridge to Nowhere”. The money is just seed money and I suspect the actual cost is larger. In addition, if larger cities of Tacoma Washington and Ashland Oregon have difficulty in paying for the fiber network how can a town of 435 do it. We the tax payers will be on the hook for a lot more for broadband to the sticks. Also the rational of economic development is classic broken window fallacy. | |
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| | | Re: Roll Out the (Congressional Pork) Barrel Pokka
Again I ask:
Just WHAT, do you think, is all the Universal Service Fund money being collected for? Wasn't it stuff like this? | |
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| | | | Re: Roll Out the (Congressional Pork) Barrel Pokka said by Fatal Vector:Again I ask: Just WHAT, do you think, is all the Universal Service Fund money being collected for? Wasn't it stuff like this? NO! It is so people in rural areas can have some minimum level of phone service...it isn't so they can have broadband service that is better than what is available in urban areas, paid for by the people in those urban areas. | |
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| | | | | Re: Roll Out the (Congressional Pork) Barrel Pokka said by johnh123:said by Fatal Vector:Again I ask: Just WHAT, do you think, is all the Universal Service Fund money being collected for? Wasn't it stuff like this? NO! It is so people in rural areas can have some minimum level of phone service...it isn't so they can have broadband service that is better than what is available in urban areas, paid for by the people in those urban areas. So in other words, your jealous of what they are getting? So if they get something better, your against it because you have worse? The reason why they are getting something better is because they are investing into newer technology. What's in the urban areas, while it's slowly becoming more of what you see coming out and down the pipe, is still pretty old. It takes time to replace what's already there, rather then just putting new in.
Don't forget that people in rural areas also pay taxes, so what we paid has helped you as well. It's a two way street, not just from the city to the rural areas, but both ways! | |
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| | | | | | Re: Roll Out the (Congressional Pork) Barrel Pokka said by LoneGreyWolf:said by johnh123:said by Fatal Vector:Again I ask: Just WHAT, do you think, is all the Universal Service Fund money being collected for? Wasn't it stuff like this? NO! It is so people in rural areas can have some minimum level of phone service...it isn't so they can have broadband service that is better than what is available in urban areas, paid for by the people in those urban areas. So in other words, your jealous of what they are getting? So if they get something better, your against it because you have worse? The reason why they are getting something better is because they are investing into newer technology. What's in the urban areas, while it's slowly becoming more of what you see coming out and down the pipe, is still pretty old. It takes time to replace what's already there, rather then just putting new in. Don't forget that people in rural areas also pay taxes, so what we paid has helped you as well. It's a two way street, not just from the city to the rural areas, but both ways! It isn't jealousy, it is common sense. Why should that subsidy be used for things it isn't supposed to be? I imagine people in rural areas would be upset if money that is supposed to subsidize mass transit instead went to buy people in urban areas HDTVs. | |
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| | | shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR | I would pay the 2300 dollars out of my own pocket on the spot right now if the telco man or cable man would come serve me plain and simple no questions asked. So where is the complaint about that one. But I'm sure someone around here would complain about it. | |
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| | Not a bad deal People that are complaining usually have ulterior motives: Astroturfing.
Ok they used some federal funds. Good for them.
We should copy them.
Verizon and Bells will gouge us. You watch.
This Net neutrality bullsh** that they are pulling over us is part of the conspiracy. Yes, I said it. | |
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| | government should have no part in this. Find in the constitution where I have to pay for this. Keep in mind that this is a municipal project, so the interstate commerce clause doesnt cover it. Let private business work where its supposed to! | |
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|  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: government should have no part in this. and like said else were you all are just jealous of this
id be 10 bucks if your town but fed loan were to roll out FTTP you would be all over it
dont like you dont have FTTP bring it up a town meeting most places still have them a few times a year | |
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| | Misuse of tax dollars!!! That money was intended for the good of the American people and should have been used for a bomb to drop on some country that we don't like.
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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| | grr... I'd have to say no I don't agree with my tax dollars going to this.
No where is it written that anyone, myself included, is entitled to broadband. If these people in rural areas want it so damn bad then move. End of story. If you can't be patient enough and wait for it to get there then move.
I live in a rural area and all I ever hear about is if "we're getting broadband". No! You're not getting broadband because you live in an under-populated/low income area. If people want "high-speed" so badly then fix your school systems, fix your local governments, and fix your economy first. Don't waste tax payer money on a luxury you hardly even know how to use. | |
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| | | Re: grr...
The bottom line fact is that they were paying attention, saw that the grant was available and applied for it. The rest was supplied by the co op.
It's easy to say things like fix your economy first when YOU aren't the one that has to actually do it. Many of these small towns are off the beaten path and dont have much to lure commerce.
But they ARE taxpayers, just like you7, and are just as entitled to their share when they can get it, it's just as simple as that. | |
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| | | | Government subsidized HSI I don't agree with the federal government paying for residential high speed internet. Now, put it high schools, libraries, community centers, etc., that's fine...the COMMUNITY can use it in those places. High speed internet to the home is a luxury. The person that made the point about the feds giving someone Mercedes. It's not that different of an argument....unless your neighbors can drive it whenever they want.....heh heh. | |
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 batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ | Not one in ten of you pay tax. My guess is than not one in ten of you pay tax or rent to your mother. You are the people that think municipal WiFi is free. | |
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| | | Re: Not one in ten of you pay tax.
And you were doing so well in the reasoned debate before you felt it necessary to cast aspersions and, not even logical aspersions at that. | |
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