 
tangojoker
Peace
join:2004-01-25
Beaverton, OR | Network Neutrality Network neutrality at work ? 
couldnt resist | |
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Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Network Neutrality Yeah, this was just a short test of the system which will be put into affect in 2007... They will charge users $5 extra to access the top 50 sites on the internet (at their full speed).
/paranoid sarcasm.
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heathcpe
join:2002-03-19
Brandon, MS
1 edit | Re: Network Neutrality I think it may be in place now. Every evening access to most sites is congested, and the choke point is the first hop off our local (Rankin, MS) Comcast network. But some sites like Yahoo blast right through the congestion. Hmmm, is Yahoo paying Comcast to prioritize their packets??? | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ | Tubes were clogged They need to charge Google. | |
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GilbertMark
Premium
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Tubes were clogged said by Jodokast96  :They need to charge Google. Any ISP can charge Google as far as I'm concerned just so long as their service is free to me. They don't get to double dip on this.
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: Tubes were clogged said by GilbertMark :said by Jodokast96 :They need to charge Google. Any ISP can charge Google as far as I'm concerned just so long as their service is free to me. They don't get to double dip on this. No such thing as a free lunch. They charge Google. Google raises advetising rates. Those companies rate prices on things YOU buy. So you do in fact pay in the end. Big corporations are NOT going to eat the costs when the little guy can be made to pay for it. Also many currently free Google services may go pay or be bloated with ads. As I said someway some how you will pay if Google has too.
Personally an ISP wanting to charge Google is like the oil companies charging gas stations for selling a bottle of Coke because they supply them with gas. | |
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JamesPC
join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA
| The ISP need to create a better business model (if neccessary) and charge more for bandwidth from there customers. It is there customers that want to access Google. Google pays an ISP as well but in this case google is the ISP for itself. So I say "get over your 12.95 DSL lines and create a profitable business model without taxing other companies". | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 | Re: Tubes were clogged
$12.99 IS profitable for DSL. Once the electronics are in place, it costs them squat to provide your service. Especially when they are double dipping for dial tone service on the same wire pair. | |
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join:2001-02-20
Saint Louis, MO | Re: Tubes were clogged Just because a line will support dial tone does not mean that it will necessarily support DSL. | |
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| | | | | zerog
join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Tubes were clogged wow Ray,
That is from left field.
I guess I could respond in sequitur, and say:
Just because you have copper doesnt mean you can get dialtone on it.
I have meters and meters of Romex copper in my house and there is no dialtone or DSL on it! | |
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Tubes were clogged said by Maxo :The apples at the grocery store are practically free after the cost of the store purchasing the apples and paying someone to stock them. If they'd just let you take them they could remove that pesky cost of having cashiers.  Any idea of what how much, as a percentage, Verizon or any other DSL provider with sub-$20 service took in last year? I'm willing to bet it was more than the 1-2% the average supermarket made. And relying solely on future earnings to fund what you are doing now doesn't really seem to smart. What happened to previous years profits? | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Tubes were clogged said by Jodokast96 :said by Maxo :The apples at the grocery store are practically free after the cost of the store purchasing the apples and paying someone to stock them. If they'd just let you take them they could remove that pesky cost of having cashiers. Any idea of what how much, as a percentage, Verizon or any other DSL provider with sub-$20 service took in last year? I'm willing to bet it was more than the 1-2% the average supermarket made. And relying solely on future earnings to fund what you are doing now doesn't really seem to smart. What happened to previous years profits? My point is simply that DSL cost more than "squat" to provide, even after investing a half mill to just have the service available.
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phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by Jodokast96 :said by Maxo :The apples at the grocery store are practically free after the cost of the store purchasing the apples and paying someone to stock them. If they'd just let you take them they could remove that pesky cost of having cashiers. Any idea of what how much, as a percentage, Verizon or any other DSL provider with sub-$20 service took in last year? I'm willing to bet it was more than the 1-2% the average supermarket made. And relying solely on future earnings to fund what you are doing now doesn't really seem to smart. What happened to previous years profits? Umm, excuse yourself bro. Considering the amount of people who eat in this world, and the average 2 week shopping equates to $70 ($140 a month), I doubt you can compare this industry financially. People won't starve to pay their DSL bill, and there is less DSL subscribers than people who require food on a daily basis on this planet. As a single entity, one might think a DSL provider made more than a supermarket, but again, think about it, $20 a month, versus $140 a month, average.
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Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: Tubes were clogged I was talking about how much total profit there was at the end of the year, after every single bill and salary (including the owners) has been paid. In the supermarket industry, it is about a 1-2% profit. That being said, 8 stores in my area alone accounted for almost half a billion dollars in sales, but at the end of it all, there was between 5 and 10 mil. left over. Verizon, just as an example, might not have spent as much, or maybe more, I don't know, but I can almost guarantee they made back a lot more money than the 1-2% the supermarkets did. | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| "Entirely untrue. The cost of the equipment itself is roughly a half million dollars. That's not easy to make up at less than $50/month. Then they have to run T1 or OC circuits to the CO to connect it to the ISP CO which also needs OC circuits. Then there are the technicians that work 40+ hours/week to keep the system running. Factor in each time you call tech support probably costs something like $5-$10 per call at thousands of calls a day."
Well now...The cost of the equipment is a cost of doing business, as is running circuits (doubtlessly done with their internal fiber network, since that is the only thing they have been laying here and the rest of the main copper is underground).
The technicians would be working anyway, as would "tech support". I doubt it costs $5-10 per call either, since the lines used are allready paid for and the representatives get paid a certain hourly wage, regardless of how many calls they handle per hour. These are ALL fixed costs of doing business that would exist regardless.
So, basically, once the electronics are in place, it costs them nothing to provide service. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Tubes were clogged said by Fatal Vector :Well now...The cost of the equipment is a cost of doing business, as is running circuits (doubtlessly done with their internal fiber network, since that is the only thing they have been laying here and the rest of the main copper is underground). Well, everything you do as a cost of doing business is a cost of doing business so then everything is really free to companies since all costs involved are only costs of doing business.
Even though the copper is alrady in place, the DSLAM, and ATM circuits are not already there.
said by Fatal Vector :The technicians would be working anyway, as would "tech support". I doubt it costs $5-10 per call either, since the lines used are allready paid for and the representatives get paid a certain hourly wage, regardless of how many calls they handle per hour. These are ALL fixed costs of doing business that would exist regardless. No, if there were no circuits to fix they wouldn't be working at all. There would be phone techs and nobody extra hired on to fix DSL trouble. Many time there will be troubles on the line that don't affect dialtone but do hinder DSL and somebody has to fix those. The extra man power to install and maintain the DSL increases the amount of techs needed in an area. Go to the SBC forums and talk to the many techs who are dedicated to DSL only issues. Eliminate that DSL and illuminate their jobs.
I just so happen to know that each call costs somewhere between $5-$10 because I've actually had access to those kinds of numbers personally. You however have not and don't know. You are just guessing, which is why you are wrong. These DSL phone reps number in the thousands and are dedicated to only working on DSL. Again eliminate the DSL and eliminate thousands of jobs that SBC must pay for.
You have absolutely no idea how many jobs in this country (and abroad unfortunately) are dependant on strictly DSL (not dialtone or otherwise) and would not exist if DSL was gone. If these jobs go than so dose the money the ISPs must pay to keep their employment.
It's easy to make claims about things you have absolutely no knowledge of. It's also easy to back those up with guesses. It's really hard to do these things and be correct. Anyone can make something up and talk authoritatively on it.
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AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX
| said by Fatal Vector :The technicians would be working anyway, as would "tech support". I doubt it costs $5-10 per call either, since the lines used are allready paid for and the representatives get paid a certain hourly wage, regardless of how many calls they handle per hour. These are ALL fixed costs of doing business that would exist regardless. False. When call volume is low, the outsourced call center offers its employees VGH, which stands for Voluntary Go Home. Anyone who wants to leave (up to a certain number of people) can leave, as they will not be needed to sit in the queue that day. If not enough people volunteer, IGH is implemented, and the people who have been there the longest are required to go home.
Thus, more customers means more calls means more hours scheduled. More hours scheduled is more money spent on technical support.
So, basically, once the electronics are in place, it costs them nothing to provide service.
Let's not forget that they pay for bandwidth on a scaled basis to upstream providers like Level3. More bandwidth costs more money.
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| | | | | | | invrtdpilot
I'd rather be flying.
join:2004-03-30
Alvarado, TX | Re: Tubes were clogged I work in a support center, but I don't take calls. Can I go home too? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Jodokast96 :They need to charge Google. I say they send in FEMA.
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Lincoln99
Premium
join:2005-03-24
Pleasant Grove, UT
| Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this This is very disturbing if those Comcast customers were able to reach other web sites, but not able to reach Google -- especially if customers on other ISP's in the same region were able to reach Google.
Isn't Kevin Martin (Chairman of the FCC) saying network neutrality is a cause looking for a problem? Well Mr. Martin, here is a problem.
Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this. | |
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| chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this they are just testing  | |
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qdemn7
Smurf in My Loop
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Fort Worth, TX
| Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this I'm afraid that's not a joke. | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
3 edits | Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this said by Lincoln99 :This is very disturbing if those Comcast customers were able to reach other web sites, but not able to reach Google -- especially if customers on other ISP's in the same region were able to reach Google. Isn't Kevin Martin (Chairman of the FCC) saying network neutrality is a cause looking for a problem? Well Mr. Martin, here is a problem. Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this. Maybe you should wait awhile before jumping to a conclusion without any facts:
»If you actually read the threads
P.S. I experienced no problems today getting to Google GMAIL, Google NEWS, or Google search and I'm on Comcast.
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| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this No doubt, huh?
And with all these "they better not cut off X and not others" posts... I could care less if a site like google or youtube (expecially) were blocked for a while if those sites are bringing the network to a crawl. I didn't subscribe to the Comcast youtube online service, I subscribed to internet access. If a high volume of users are accessing any bw intense site and the entire network is crawling becuase of it, I would EXPECT them to pull the plug until they can figure out what's happening so that the rest of us can use the internet.
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this said by fiberguy :I could care less if a site like google or youtube (expecially) were blocked for a while if those sites are bringing the network to a crawl. I didn't subscribe to the Comcast youtube online service, I subscribed to internet access. If a high volume of users are accessing any bw intense site and the entire network is crawling becuase of it, I would EXPECT them to pull the plug until they can figure out what's happening so that the rest of us can use the internet. Ok, Ted, you're right. The Internet isn't something you can dump something on. It's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes...that get clogged. Did one of your staff try to send an Internet last Friday and you only now got your Internet today?
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by fiberguy :I could care less if a site like google or youtube (expecially) were blocked for a while if those sites are bringing the network to a crawl. So are you saying people accessing google and youtube are bringing Comcast's network to a crawl? | |
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| | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: Comcast better have one damn good explanation for this No...... I said "IF"... I said IF they are .... | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Hummm Bad router on comcast side some where?
I really dont think that comcast would block just the northeast tho. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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aj004
join:2006-05-28
Forest Hills, NY
2 edits | cnet says NYC too? I read that NYC was also affected? Is this true? Wasn't on the internet till recently.
Google is moving to 111 8th avenue and so if one needs google to get out to the bigger internet I would highly recommend using an ISP at this facility if available.
Time Warner Cable is NOT located at this facility from the listing of providers that I see unless someone knows otherwise. For NYC Residential providers the providers who are located would be Verizon AND RCN if available and Cablevision if you are located in a Cablevision market. For Long Island, they would be Cablevision AND Verizon.
Guess I'll stick with RCN and see who their acquirer is as hopefully its sold off and upgraded.
I need to travel more now to Chelsea and the West Village and meet some Google employees.  | |
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xlimitx
join:2001-12-31
Wilkes Barre, PA
·ProLog
| YouTube Slow this afternoon from PA I'm not sure what to think right now. I'm fairly old school so whenever I see slowness and 6 times out of 11 I just blame it on "net congestion", but when I think about it YouTube was slow and unresponsive around 3:30PM today. Google, however, I can't say is ever unresponsive but I believe that's due to their content delivery by Akamai. | |
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dervari
join:2000-01-17
Atlanta, GA
clubs:
1 edit | Not just Comcast This was not just a Comcast outage. We had some AT&T MIS customers in the NE who were affected as well. Since Comcast uses AT&T as their Internet backbone, it leads me to believe it was possibly an AT&T problem, not comcast. | |
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codee
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Minneapolis, MN
| Problems happen..... Its amazing how quickly people over react and claim ISP xyz is blocking customers from accessing ABC for whatever reason.....nothing to be afraid of.....equipment has issues from time to time. The teleco/cable industry has the saying of "4-9s of reliability" 99.99%. There WILL be problems/downtime occasionally. Since it was more then one isp, it was more then just a Comcast problem. I feel bad for the people who immediately think their isp is out to get them, or are worried about net neutrality over small stuff like this. How some people continue to function in society on a day to day basis is beyond me lol | |
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raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA | No Google? Yikes, Somebody call Ted Stevens! I just got somebody else google the other day. It's, It's,It's a series of tubes...
There is just an enormous amounts of material clogging my tubes. Need some fiber... | |
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ONiall
Yum, Citizen
Premium
join:2002-11-18
Portland, OR
clubs:
·Comcast
| i would have picked one comment to reply to... but there are a number of points to raise
- google pays for their access, just like everyone else. their data centers are served by a provider, and google selects the amount of bandwidth they wish to pay for users to access their services.
- the internet is a mesh of carriers, and at certain points there can be failures that affect some remote users, and not others. this can be due to volume, hardware failure, line breaks, or software freak-outs like protocol drops and other wonderful mayhem convincing multiple devices to recognize their co-existence across great physical distances.
- because content providers pay for allocated bandwidth, any fear of youtube or google causing congestion on the network is the result of undercapacity on the part of a carrier, and not the fault of the content provider, except in the instance that the content provider has no more allocated bandwidth available due to utilization. it would be very expensive for a carrier to dedicate backbone bandwidth equal to the summation of the full capacity of all their customers allocated access, so more likely than not, the true bandwidth available will be substantially less. should every user attempt to pull data at the throughput of their allocated bandwidth, the congestion would be immense.
- carriers can build out to provide the summation of all their customers bandwidth, however, you would find that the costs for access would increase to cover that expense.
- the benefits of quality of service, or more specifically, class of service, only is relevant in a situation where network congestion occurs. if there is plenty of bandwidth along the entire source / destination path, then there is no need for packet prioritization. qos and cos are traffic policing features to enable traffic deemed 'critical' to pass through at a higher guaranteed rate than traffic with a lower priority tag.
cheers,
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jones34
@comcast.net
| Re: i would have picked one comment to reply to... Comcast is constantly changing their network.
Just cause they have one doesnt mean they know how to use it. Most of my clients on CC have their lines screwed with during business hours with no warning.
Get used to bad service from a commodities broker.... | |
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EnsonRedshirt
@comcast.net
|  Re: i would have picked one comment to reply to...
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Bp459
@oadbandsystems.com
|  firefox Vs. IE failure
It describes ff and ie not being blocked exactly the same way, to which i can attest.
(google.com worked for my ie, but no gmail. but neither google.com nor gmail.com for my co-worker running ff)
Does this symptom jive with a comcast hardware failure? Or are they just not admitting to some throtlin' ? | |
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FishMittens
@comcast.net | Re: firefox Vs. IE failure I can confirm the exact same thing on all 4 systems in my home network yesterday,
IE6: google.com access but not gmail
FireFox15: no access to Google.com or gmail
-Fish | |
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Trinijoy
Premium
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ
1 edit | uh huh Please research on how the internet works before flamin Comcast. It's call routing ISSUES. I gurantee you there was a lot of other sites people could not access that were on the same route as google.
it's also called DNS issues that can come up. it happens its life, nothing is perfect.
Google was only annouced because it was a popular site. | |
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Comcast Google Disconnect
