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story category No Ground? Exploding Dishwasher
Comcast pays up for neighbor's poor wiring
(old news - 09:21AM Thursday Sep 28 2006)
tags: cable · Oddities
A user in our Comcast forum shares an interesting tale of exploding appliances due to some faulty wiring:
"Days after two amps were replaced in my neighborhood, my neighbor directly across the street advised me that he was now having problems as well as the remainder of the neighbors around him.

A tech came to his home and did what every tech does when they first arrive, they tested the signal where it enters the home. Little did the tech know what the Comcast line was doing for the house. Upon disconnecting the incoming line, every appliance in my neighbors house instantaneously exploded, a crack opened in the ceiling, and the melted insulation on the cable wire was revealed.

Turns out, my neighbors electrical system had no ground wire. The house was using the coax cable as a conduit into the comcast system at the tap. The current then followed the shortest path into his next door neighbors ground wire."
While it doesn't seem like the problem was Comcast's fault, the user claims Comcast has agreed to pay for all the damages to his neighbor's home.

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  4. How Much is 'Broadband For Life' From a Failing Company Worth?
  5. Your Comcast DVR Is Watching You
  6. Charter's Broadband 'For Life' Auction Tops $40k
  7. Charter: Selling Browsing Data Is Like Offering Faster Speeds
  8. Comcast Circulates Unredacted User Check Online
Forums » No Ground? Exploding Dishwasher
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Post a:

rachelsfx

join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL

That sleeping tech must've did it

LOL!

rachelsfx

join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufo9p1O9iAQ
LeftOfSanity

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

Gee, that was original.

lolanonanon

@sympatico.ca

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

original AND funny!
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

No it wasn't.. it was stupid and not funny at all...

codee
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Minneapolis, MN
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Does anybody know how many Comcast systems allow their employees to wear shorts even? 1 in the entire US. If anybody can name which system that is, I'll be quite surprised.
JPGrimmace

join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI

Nothing New to Me.

Comcast installed cable and internet into my aunts home by running coax through a hole in a second floor (of 4 floor) screen window. This cable had serious grounding issues too and would cause her to lose cable modems regularly. Once, while trying to resolve more connectivity issues, the pin from her coax cable tapped the side of her PC. We got a nasty shock and a new pin sized hole on the side of her PC case from this crap. I'm just glad it wasn't my arm that got that hit.
LeftOfSanity

join:2005-11-06
Felton, DE

Re: Nothing New to Me.

said by JPGrimmace See Profile :

Comcast installed cable and internet into my aunts home by running coax through a hole in a second floor (of 4 floor) screen window. This cable had serious grounding issues too and would cause her to lose cable modems regularly. Once, while trying to resolve more connectivity issues, the pin from her coax cable tapped the side of her PC. We got a nasty shock and a new pin sized hole on the side of her PC case from this crap. I'm just glad it wasn't my arm that got that hit.
I have to call BS.

The voltage put a tiny hole in the pc case?? Hard to believe.
--
Fighting on the Internet is like winning the Special Olympics. Win or lose, your still Retarted!
JPGrimmace

join:2003-09-16
Pontiac, MI

Re: Nothing New to Me.

BS? The pin from the coax cable caused a strong spark on contact. It even left burn stains.

Not that it's really needed for me to explain a thing to you.

toadlife
Premium
join:2004-05-03
Coalinga, CA
I believe it. We had a laptop power supply short and melt a gaping hole straight through it's own the connector. It looked like a mini-welding torch had been taken to it. Electricity can be nasty!

JamesPC

join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA
I agree, "a pin size whole"? So electricity scodered a whole threw the metal. For this to happen you would need to create a big enough charge to melt metal. The charge carried in the entire cable network is not enough.

Gnoswal
Premium
join:2002-12-07
Feasterville Trevose, PA

Its very believable that it could happen. Try cutting a live piece romex cable with a pair of side cutters. You'll blow a hole through them quite easily.

But the problem with the person blowing a hole in their computer case when they touched it with the cable line...that wasn't the cable's fault. That was due to the fact that the line the computer was plugged into was ungrounded. There is a short backfeeding through this circuit. So when you touched the comp. case...you completed the circuit and poof. Instant welder.
--
GNOSWAL,Comcast,Linksys WRT54G,Vonage,Networked Tivo,Laptop on Wireless "Things involving the computer fill me with a childlike terror. Now, if it were a nice ogre or some such, I'd be more in my element."

spenster

join:2001-04-03
Houston, TX

Re: Nothing New to Me.

Please tell me you're not speaking from experience.
8744675

join:2000-10-10
Decatur, GA

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

In my first house, the installer ran the ground wire into the crawl space and wrapped the fully insulated green ground wire around a rock laying on the dirt floor. I found it like that a few months later when I was under the house replacing plumbing. Nice work!
phaqu

join:2005-05-26
Marietta, GA
·Comcast

Re: That sleeping tech must've did it

said by 8744675 See Profile :

In my first house, the installer ran the ground wire into the crawl space and wrapped the fully insulated green ground wire around a rock laying on the dirt floor.
So, I guess your were "stoned" instead of grounded?

Elcabong
Cuba SI, Castro NO

join:2000-03-09
Philadelphia, PA
·Comcast

said by rachelsfx See Profile :

LOL!
Must've done it. DONE it dammit, use proper English grammar.
--
»www.thereligionofpeace.com/

exocet_cm
Signal 26's Rock
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:

Wow!

That is amazing! I'm glad nobody got hurt!

tvtek
Premium
join:2004-03-07
Concord, CA

Re: Wow!

That's Comblastic!

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Is This Even Believable?

Every appliance exploded?

A crack opened in the ceiling?

Did the skies darken and moon turn to blood too?

Come on... this sounds at least like an embellishment to me.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

RockCake
Premium
join:2005-07-12
Woodbridge, VA

Re: Is This Even Believable?

I was thinking the same thing...

jjsk8r85

join:2005-02-17
Belleville, MI

Re: Is This Even Believable?

the coax could actually act as a ground wire. keep in mind that the ground wire is not constantly in use, unless it's tied with neutral in an old home, or if there is already a faulty appliance in the house to begin with. while the coax is not tied directly to the house's electrical system, if there is a cable box, or a tv, or a stereo or anything that has a grounded power connector, and it was connected to the cable box or tv, there's your ground path.

gogeta6

join:2002-06-20
San Diego, CA
clubs:

Does sound a bit so.

I wonder if the house was built with coax in place? If not and this is true, wouldn't it have already happened? And what do the two new amps have to do with the situation, or are those just the reason for the tech being out?

StumpMan
Premium
join:2001-07-26
Clinton, NC
I'll take a guess that you've never seen the damage a lightening strike can do.

I've seen a bad ground fry systems in a house before.

It's possible.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Is This Even Believable?

said by StumpMan See Profile :

I'll take a guess that you've never seen the damage a lightening strike can do.
This was not a lightening strike. The amount of power going to the average house doesn't even come close to the amount of power brought by a lightening strike.
said by StumpMan See Profile :

I've seen a bad ground fry systems in a house before.
Frying systems is one thing, having every appliance explode is another.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

JamesPC

join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA
Of course lighting...duh.... this is not lightning. Much less volts involved. I think the story is true but embellished, but what good story isn't.
Westofhere

join:2005-04-07
Monroe, WA
·Comcast

"Turns out, my neighbors electrical system had no ground wire. The house was using the coax cable as a conduit into the comcast system at the tap. The current then followed the shortest path into his next door neighbors ground wire."

No way an RG6 coax line could possibly carry the load to ground an entire house. For one coax isn't even tied into the electrical. Second a typical ground wire is around #8 gauge wire, RG6 would have smoked the instant the electrician flipped the breaker. Unless you live in the Ozarks no inspecter would ever let a house pass without an earth ground, and your local power company would have shut you off a long time ago.

Toadman
How do you like these Apples

join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..


edit:
September 28th, @10:24AM

Re: Is This Even Believable?

said by Westofhere See Profile :

For one coax isn't even tied into the electrical.
Most cable companies install a coax grounding block to the ground on your homes electrical system. You are correct on that specific electrical ground should go to an earth ground as well per NEC code.

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:

edit:
September 28th, @03:57PM

Re: Is This Even Believable?

Cable companies are supposed to install a ground block, and they're supposed to attach the ground wire. But as many inspection reports from around the country show, grounding doesn't always happen the way it's supposed to.
cooperaaaron

join:2004-04-10
Rockford, IL
I used to install and I would see grounding blocks attached to the sliding and not grounded to anything else. I used to run out of grounding staps from time to time because of this...

TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Every appliance exploded?
A crack opened in the ceiling?
Did the skies darken and moon turn to blood too?
Come on... this sounds at least like an embellishment to me.
The original Comcast thread has no link to truth of this story. This is just another "news item" based on hearsay. Certainly an amusing story, but hardly a news item.
--
--
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imbroadband

join:2006-09-28
Tacoma, WA

Re: Is This Even Believable?

I aree, this is just a load of poop. Next we will hear from these dorks, that their cable installer was Elvis!! The only time I ever felt any shock from cable was making a fitting on house side of the drop that had setup with Telephony. It comes out 89.5 volts. (thank God for VOIP)Nothing to cause a hole in a case. When the cable coming is not grounded it does goto the shortest route, IE the nearest outlet. Creative writing 101!!And The Saints Of Broadband say...
AMEN

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable

Same here. I can't see every appliance experiencing a failure because of a sudden lack of ground. Also, had all the appliances actually been using that cable as a return path for current, I seriously doubt the cable shield would have held up.

Either there's more to the actual reason for the explosions or the story isn't entirely accurate.

Local news report on this? Any verifiable coverage or source to back this up?
--
I'd kill for a Nobel peace prize!
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Is This Even Believable?

said by fireflier See Profile :

Same here. I can't see every appliance experiencing a failure because of a sudden lack of ground. Also, had all the appliances actually been using that cable as a return path for current, I seriously doubt the cable shield would have held up.

Either there's more to the actual reason for the explosions or the story isn't entirely accurate.

Local news report on this? Any verifiable coverage or source to back this up?
Right on, also its hard to belive the house's only neutral connection to ground was through the coax, usually the neutral goes out on the pole to the pole's neutral wire, which gets grounded every so often, even in 1 wire earth return systems, the power companies have neutrals on the pole. Also how on earth (no pun intended) did the - pole of the 120v system get onto the coax ground, that would mean a ground fault in some tv/cable gear. Plus the return amperage of a house would fry/melt the coax's jacket.

N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Every appliance exploded?

A crack opened in the ceiling?

Did the skies darken and moon turn to blood too?

Come on... this sounds at least like an embellishment to me.
The dead rising from the grave, a 1000 years of darkness..

DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER.....MASS HYSTERIA
--
Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Is This Even Believable?

said by N3OGH See Profile :

said by pnh102 See Profile :

Every appliance exploded?

A crack opened in the ceiling?

Did the skies darken and moon turn to blood too?

Come on... this sounds at least like an embellishment to me.
The dead rising from the grave, a 1000 years of darkness..

DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER.....MASS HYSTERIA
Well I can see how one's house exploding might turn said person white LOL.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

StumpMan
Premium
join:2001-07-26
Clinton, NC

Good on ya, Comcast!

Makes sense to me that Comcast would pay for it. The price to repair the house would be far less than a damaging 'bad rumor' would be.

Word of mouth campaigns do more to hurt a business than any advertising they pay for.

Get good service, and you may tell 2 or 3 people.
Get bad service, and you may tell 20 or 30 people.

See 7 replies to this post
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA

Grounding

The Comcast grounding must have went to what was suposedly the ground wire except it wasn't set to the rod. He didn'thave (or use?) a voltage detector.

cypherstream
There's no place like 127.0.0.1

join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
·Cingular Wireless

There's a little voltage on my line.

When Connecting the Motorola 6412 DVR in my house, its really quite a challenge. As my arm reaches back in the narrow entertainment center opening, as long as I'm touching the metal on the 6412 and the coax cable at the same time, I get quite a buzz. I measured 70 VAC between ground and CATV. On another box going through a computer I measured 69 VAC between the cable box and the cable line. We don't have grounded outlets so perhaps it's doing this same thing. The Cable line is grounded to a copper pipe outside at the ground block.

jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
·AT&T Southeast

Re: There's a little voltage on my line.

You need to call either an electrician, or your cable company and get that fixed before someone gets hurt or equipment gets fried. That is very dangerous.

What that means is that the two pieces of equipment are at different ground potentials. All electrical equipment in your house should go to the same ground.

That is why most of the time, you will see the cable ground, and the telco ground tied to the electrical ground of the house, to keep all the equipment at the same ground potential.
--
Best of luck

"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda

markofmayhem

join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA

I'm sure a little over exaggeration was done, but the sound this could make is unbelievable. Although I was just a child, as such everything seems larger and louder than it is, the POP that the refrigerator, TV, and Radar Range (it was that long ago) made would easily have been described as an explosion to me. What happened, was my neighbor's line was struck by lightning. For whatever reason, I don't know for sure, a surge came through our house. Back then, everything was grounded, but it was not required that the grounds be connected or that all had to share the same ground. Our phone line had a better ground than anything else in our house. After the refrigerator popped, the TV clicked and started smoking, and the radar range started sizzling, the phone on a table in our living room caught on fire due to the surge trying to find a way out and entered the phone lines through the answering machine; since the phone had a better ground than our power line, the surge went through the circuits with the above appliances before making it's way to the answering machine and then out to the phone's ground. The buzz and bass sounds throughout the house were deafening as the surge raced through the power lines and then the phone lines. All of the affected cables were melted, it was very easy to trace the path it took.
gwaltrip

join:2001-12-30
Ogden, UT

Without a grounded outlet your surge suppressor is what is putting the 70V on the ground line of anything connected to it.
Since the cable is grounded guess what?...Bzzzt
--
Garrett B. Waltrip, N7QWT DN41ag, TRA #721 L2, garrett@thewaltrips.net, »www.thewaltrips.net, "Real Rockets have tankage!"
DrDuran

join:2001-06-21
Concord, CA

Re: There's a little voltage on my line.

if it's a UL listed surge suppressor (or CSA OR ETL for that matter, they all use the UL standard) there is no way that it can put any voltage on the ground. the design wouldn't make it through the first day of testing that way.

c-ya

Tom T.

tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: There's a little voltage on my line.

said by DrDuran See Profile :

if it's a UL listed surge suppressor (or CSA OR ETL for that matter, they all use the UL standard) there is no way that it can put any voltage on the ground.
That is not really true.

Surge protectors all dump a little energy into safety ground, typically a few hundred microamps. What is important in not the open circuit voltage but how much energy is being dumped in to safety ground.

If safety ground is left floating it will rise close to phase voltage. That is why proper bonding and grounding is so important. Grounding drains off stray energy to earth ground and bonding forces all conductors to be at the same potential - eliminating shock hazard.

Stray voltage is a result of both capacitive and inductive coupling. Just having a wire near a current carrying AC conductor allows the magnetic field to induce a voltage - think of it as a very lossy transformer.

/Tom
LazMan

join:2003-03-26
Angus, ON
·Bell Sympatico
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Not likely...

OK - I call BS.

While a surge can do dramatic damage (I've seen the results of 5kV being shorted to a 110/240 distribution system, and the utility repair/replace everything electric in a dozen homes as a result) there is NO way the co-ax cable was carrying that much current. It would have burned through like a fuse LONG before the comcast tech opened the connection up to test...

Laz

See 6 replies to this post
pweegar

join:2005-02-18
Phoenix, AZ

fire potential

IF there was that much current caused all the appliances to explode and wire casing to melt and to be exposed through a ceiling, would there have been a fire in the house also???? There would have to have been a lot of heat generated. I think the house probably would have burned down????
inurenegade

join:2006-06-11
Wilmington, DE

about grouding thing

back when my parents got their enclosed sun porch installed onto the house we were trying to get cable into the room. we figured we would ask the electrician when the special wiring holes were still open if he could put it through. he refused to install the cable because it is against code or something to install cable near electrical wiring he said something could deteriorate the wiring or a mouse could chew it and the cable wire could become hot and could kill any appliance using the cable wiring. so we never got cable in the sun porch thing

jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
·AT&T Southeast

Re: about grouding thing

He was somewhat correct, but he could have bored holes at the proper distance from the electrical wiring to have met the code requirements. He just didn't want to do it, or your parents didn't want to pay him for the extra work.
--
Best of luck

"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda


frilly pots

@verizon.net

jimbob's electricians

see what happens when you wire a home's electrical system with POTS copper wire, which was meant to handle voice pots, and maybe dsl if your close to the central office!

Imagine if you could fry the central office's DSL, POTS and other expensive line cards with some "box", what would you call it?

The TOILET BOX! Frying all the toiletries in the telco bellsouth central office!
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: jimbob's electricians

Its all fused repeatedly. All you wud do is kill your phone line for a week. How stupid do u think they can be? $1000s of dollars of assests cud be distroyed in seconds by anyone with a screw driver, sure they wouldnt protect against that.
HyPeRbAnD

join:2006-01-07
Stow, MA

Seen this about a dozen times in my 14yrs

Techs would go to disconnect a wire at the splitter and find it very warm or hot to the point coax melting. We always advise the home owner to call an electrician. Electrician rolls out and find anything from a bad 220 appliance to a lifted neutral from the power company.

We had a tech climb the pole to disconnect a customers service because they were moving. As soon as he pulled the drop off the tap, he heard an explosion. He called me and we notified the power company. Power comes out finds loose connection at the power neutral and ground. The customer had sued us but lost and went after the power company. I am not sure if they ever settled that or not.

At least no one was injured in this case.
rhard49

join:2001-04-12
Merrick, NY

damm

Can you ask your wife to hold the cable while the comcast individual is working

richardpor
Fur it up

join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR

Basic Electricity

Electricity will take the path of least resistance. If the home does not have a proper ground, electricity will take whatever ground it is presented in this case the cable shield. I seen this a lot in electronic equipment I troubleshoot. If the power supply ground not connected but a separate digital ground is via the test equipment, the circuit will try to use that ground. It is puzzling why Comcast will settle for a problem they are not liable.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast

Not one bravo for Comcast?

I skimmed through all the posts and replies and didn't see one single good thing posted about Comcast on this issue. Its obvious the homeowner didn't have a ground wire on their electric system, and for Comcast to pay the bill for the damage done by a faulty install or in an old house that was built before code is very honorable no matter how you cut it.

Not that any Comcast bashers will admit.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

See 6 replies to this post

gilligun
Shipwrecked
Premium
join:2002-11-22
Denver, CO

Exploding What?

And it didnt blow any of the breakers or fuses?
WoW.....I wouldnt say "Poltergeist" too loudly around there
--
Why do I have long hair?? It covers my bald spot!
garywk

join:2001-03-06
Clarkston, WA
·CableOne

Re: Exploding What?

said by gilligun See Profile :

And it didnt blow any of the breakers or fuses?
WoW.....I wouldnt say "Poltergeist" too loudly around there
I take it you have never worked with electrical systems very much....

I can't tell you how many breakers I have run across that will not trip even if the line they are protecting is shorted to ground. That's actually the most common failure for breakers. The reason most people don't know about them is because the vast majority of these failures aren't detected because current still flows through the breaker.

There are also fuses that are made to withstand very high initial/spiked current loads without burning out. That's why electrical ciruits that have motors in them use different fuses than incandescent lighting circuits do. These fuses are designed to blow from a sustained current overload, not an instantaneous/short-term-spike current overload.

The story that started this thread is entirely possible from what I've seen over the years as a service technician. Rare? Yes, because several failures have to combine to create the situation: a "perfect storm" type situation. Impossible? No.
--
“We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.”

Dwight David Eisenhower
markosjal

join:2005-08-06
Mexico

Yes Comcast IS at Fault

Had Comcast followed the rules and properly grounded the cable at the point of entry of the two homes, this would not have been an issue! Since it is a serious requirement in many jurisdictions, yes it IS Comcast's fault.

I worked in Cable television many years ago, and grounding at the point of entry was a requirement!

I now live in Mexico and have tried to convince the Cable company that they should not skimp on this requirement and they Ignore me. So now I believe I provide one of the only ground points in The Telecable Puerto Vallarta system. Unfortunately it came AFTER burning up a Motherboard on a computer with a TV tuner card connected to the Cable. The power and monitor, and all other connections were disconnected when it happened!

See 8 replies to this post

showmedaproof

@comcast.net

Sound like pure Horse manure

If this had really happened, it surely would have made the news, and there would be some actual facts that would back up this stupid story.

To this I say, FUD
Forums » No Ground? Exploding Dishwasher


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