fcisler Premium Member join:2004-06-14 Riverhead, NY |
fcisler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 4:50 pm
Ok..So lemme get this straight...they are acomplishing this with SOFTWARE on an end users pc right now?
Via WHAT? ssh tunneling?
When that's "eliminated"....how is Joe, who pays his $15 a month, going to get routed out of his ISP's network, and instead of hitting...let's say Level 3...hit GameRail??
Now what about when his ISP oversells his node, and his ping to the headend is 300ms? How does this help him?
Correct me if i'm wrong - i'm not a big gamer here. MOST gamers that I know though, are a bit tech savvy. If their ping is 200ms, they are gonna pinpoint WHERE the problem is - brother downloading porn, ISP oversold, etc - and tackle that problem first (get a new ISP, beat brother, etc)
Would any of you hard-core gamers out there pay for this? | |
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| Cheese Premium Member join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL
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Cheese
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 5:43 pm
Re: Ok..said by fcisler:So lemme get this straight...they are acomplishing this with SOFTWARE on an end users pc right now? Via WHAT? ssh tunneling? When that's "eliminated"....how is Joe, who pays his $15 a month, going to get routed out of his ISP's network, and instead of hitting...let's say Level 3...hit GameRail?? Now what about when his ISP oversells his node, and his ping to the headend is 300ms? How does this help him? Correct me if i'm wrong - i'm not a big gamer here. MOST gamers that I know though, are a bit tech savvy. If their ping is 200ms, they are gonna pinpoint WHERE the problem is - brother downloading porn, ISP oversold, etc - and tackle that problem first (get a new ISP, beat brother, etc) Would any of you hard-core gamers out there pay for this? Negative. | |
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| | Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 6:14 pm
Re: gamerailThey are closely related because they interviewed the CEO of GameRail? | |
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Re: gamerailTheir closely related because Jason "Alchemist" Baker Gamerails Director of Product Development is one of the higher ups for gotfrag. | |
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| rogunitUhhh, Sir? Premium Member join:1999-09-18 Phoenix, AZ |
to fcisler
Re: Ok..Not a chance! | |
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| | 53059959 (banned)Temp banned from BBR more then anyone join:2002-10-02 PwnZone |
53059959 (banned)
Member
2006-Oct-4 11:24 pm
Re: Ok..said by This Article :
for a 35ms ping from NY to LA laws of physics say otherwise | |
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| | | bmn? ? ?
join:2001-03-15 hiatus |
Re: Ok..said by 53059959:said by This Article :
for a 35ms ping from NY to LA laws of physics say otherwise Yeah, it is nice how they cheat and use one way latency instead of RTT. | |
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to fcisler
This would have been great 5+ years ago. It's easy to find low ping servers now for any popular game. | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
to fcisler
Are there any SLA's or QoS guarantees on this service? if not, FORGET IT! | |
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| rawgerzThe hell was that? Premium Member join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA |
to fcisler
If I did the math correctly, speed of light 186,000 miles per second and NY to LA roughly 2,500 miles. It would equal about 15ms One way.. low 30's for a ping. Interesting.. because that's almost no added latency from each hop along the way. When I first read '35ms' I thought it was impossible. But I guess 100ms from EC to WC is quite a lot after all | |
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Re: Ok..Well, the speed of light in fiber is not 186,000 MPsec. And then there is latency added for every routed hop or switched hop where the light is converted to electrical signals and then back to light.
The best I've seen on a cross country link is about 50 - 55ms, and that's on a brand new OC-48 with no traffic on it. And that's just from router to router.
If you start at your home PC and go through the hops to get across the country to an end server, 100ms isn't that out of the ordinary. | |
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Re: Ok..I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY. | |
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| | | | brandonSome truth included in this post. Premium Member join:2003-03-31 Ocean Springs, MS |
brandon
Premium Member
2006-Oct-5 9:56 am
Re: Ok..said by grandpinaple8:I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY. From south mississippi I ping 60s to San Jose. | |
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| | | | | AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922 Premium Member join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX |
Re: Ok..said by brandon:said by grandpinaple8:I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY. From south mississippi I ping 60s to San Jose. That's pretty awful. | |
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| Tweak Premium Member join:2002-06-08 Colonial Heights, VA |
to fcisler
This going to rock with my new "lag killing nic" The tubes will not get so clogged up either! Now if I could only keep the trucks away! | |
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to fcisler
Hell no, I already pay $50 a month with Optimum Online and my ping is great (Minus the times the server is crappy). I play BF2 which is very intensive on the PC and ISP and I haven't had any problems on my end that I noticed.
For $15 more a month I can probably update to the 30 MB service I have been hearing about. | |
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| MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
to fcisler
I don't see how they could help customers with interleave like most of Sprint's customers are. | |
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| | AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922 Premium Member join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX |
Re: Ok..That's a very small part of their potential market, don't you think? | |
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| | | MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
Maxo
Premium Member
2006-Oct-5 2:10 pm
Re: Ok..said by AmeritecTech:That's a very small part of their potential market, don't you think? Nope. Sprint puts most of it's customer's on interleave by default. It's company policy to not put customer's on fastpath, even if their line is rock solid. A small number of DSLAMs they implement put customer's on fastpath by default, but for most of us it's interleave. | |
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| | | | AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922 Premium Member join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX |
Re: Ok..How many customers does Sprint DSL have? | |
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| | | | | MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
Maxo
Premium Member
2006-Oct-5 2:27 pm
Re: Ok..said by AmeritecTech:How many customers does Sprint DSL have? No eye dear. | |
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| | | | | | AmeritecTechChange we can believe in, 1922 Premium Member join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX |
Re: Ok..Well anyway...
the major ISPs in this country are the major telcos and the cable companies. I doubt Game Rail is wringing their hands about the interleave customers they're losing on Sprint...but who knows. | |
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wha?so what is happening here? i am goinf to pay 10-15 buck for you to redirect my traceroute so that i get lower pings? do they just change the hops your connection takes so that it passes through higher speed trunks? and what about MMO's that are based internationally, are those going to be improves if included in the service? i play my online games ALOT and i am tech savvy, but i just dont see enough info to understand how they are going to accomplish this. | |
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Re: wha?magic of course.. gamers already know wat causes lag so i dont know how they are gonna make money with this | |
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| ToadmanHypnotoad join:2001-11-28 Mystery |
to StaticMan
said by StaticMan:so what is happening here? i am goinf to pay 10-15 buck for you to redirect my traceroute so that i get lower pings? do they just change the hops your connection takes so that it passes through higher speed trunks? and what about MMO's that are based internationally, are those going to be improves if included in the service? i play my online games ALOT and i am tech savvy, but i just dont see enough info to understand how they are going to accomplish this. They plan on accomplishing this easily. They will lay a direct cable connection between your home and St. Louis. The only problem is you need to get your neighbors and every one else's permission that the cable crosses their property! | |
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Re: wha?and i suppose the are going to alos put me some repeaters in (for an extra price) to stop the attenuation too right? LOL. | |
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RaptorNot a Dumptruck join:2001-10-21 London, ON |
Raptor
Member
2006-Oct-4 5:07 pm
RTAIf you read the article it will describe what it is alleviating. This solution will NOT fix any issues you have on your local node. What it WILL fix, are poor routings, and latency time it takes to make 30 hops to wherever you need to go via regular routes, as apparently, there will be a more direct route given to your prioritized packets.
No one is saying this magically fixes the client side end if you have problems on your very own neighbourhood node. If you can clear your own ISP's network, you're off to the races. If you read the article you would understand this. | |
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Re: RTAif your internet connection takes 30 hops to go anywhere than you definately have a problem. i live on the east coast and i can tracert most west coast servers in 10-15 hops MAX. dont get me wrong, IF it works more power to them, but many of these claims have been made recently and nobody has put forth any real significant "lag reducing" solutions yet. I just see all these things stating what they are going to do, but until they give me some more info on HOW they plan on doing it, i am going to be skeptical. | |
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dv41What was that? Premium Member join:2005-04-19 Goleta, CA |
dv41
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 5:08 pm
I guess its all peeringI took the time to skim over the actual article that they linked to in the post and they have peered with the major ISP's to somehow get special routing for people using the gamerail software..
It sounds sketchy to me, I would love to try it out and see if what they say is true...Not to mention the speeds would definitely be greater with the reduced latency..I wonder what the software does and if it differentiates game traffic.. | |
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| RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY
1 recommendation |
RARPSL
Member
2006-Oct-4 5:17 pm
Re: I guess its all peeringsaid by dv41:It sounds sketchy to me, I would love to try it out and see if what they say is true...Not to mention the speeds would definitely be greater with the reduced latency..I wonder what the software does and if it differentiates game traffic.. One way to do this is to use IPv6 Tunneling. So long as you are using IPv6 Packets (even if they are enveloped in an IPv4 Packet), you can ask for Special Routing as well as a QoS Priority via IPv6 Headers. Once DOCS 3.0 comes out the ability to DIRECTLY use IPv6 will eliminate the need to envelope since you will then have a dual-stack that can be used (right now the IPv6 side is not usable since the networks will not assign you an IPv6 IPN. | |
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bbenso1 join:2004-11-28 Baltimore, MD |
Net Neutrality Issues?Does anyone else besides me see this getting rolling and then all the ISP's coming back and saying, "See, if there were net neutrality laws in place we wouldn't be able to do this kind of packet prioritization and optimized routing."?
While this is not typical web traffic like, say, prioritizing google over yahoo, it still seems like it might be a slippery slope as far as the whole net neutrality debate is concerned... | |
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rarly makes senseFor cable modems, 99% of slowdowns and ping problems are your fiber node, never the backbone (almost always Level 3, AKA Fat Tony's USA Internet), but once in a blue moon Level 3 does have insane routing, like sending all Verizon MA customer's packets through Texas to get to back to other Verizon MA customers. This service would only make sense for DSL subscribers that have ping problems, since DSL is a circuit to the backbone/CO and there is rarly a problem with the last mile affecting DSL pings like with cable.
There is some point in routing packets onto a QOS optimized backbone such as GameRail very close to the CO/headend, but since the service is only practical for DSL customers (circuit nature), GameRail should just become a DSL ISP/CLEC and route off the DSLAM straight onto it's backbone and skip ALL non-GameRail level 3 routers/links, while the current plan will have packets bouncing around a city's backbone routers and probably encounter the same problem that the customer who went to GameRail tried to get rid off. | |
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twizlarI dont think so. Premium Member join:2003-12-24 Brantford, ON |
twizlar
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 7:40 pm
HmmThis will technically work, however they need co-operation from the LOCAL isps, so that they can peer directly with them, otherwise to most people this is quite useless. Good idea though. | |
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Michieru2zzz zzz zzz Premium Member join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL |
Funny how all the locations described are exactly where Speakeasy servers are located. Wasn't Speakeasy created from a coffee shop or gaming company?
You where basically routed inside the speakeasy network as long as both customers where from SE and games where hosted on the ISP end. Meaning Someone in LA who has 30ms will still get around 30ms even if the connection is around Chicago because you are traveling over a fiber line instead being routed through 3rd party peers plus I am sure the traffic was prioritized.
Which is why Speakeasy boasts so much of there network. So to say they are going to be the first nationwide network designed exclusively for games I doubt there position and how exactly there going to pull it off with third parties. | |
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| Bill Premium Member join:2001-12-09 |
Bill
Premium Member
2006-Oct-4 10:51 pm
Re: HmmI doubt it has anything to do with Speakeasy being at those locations. All the mentioned areas have major data centers where most gaming servers are already located. | |
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dailu Premium Member join:2003-12-03 Mystic, CT |
dailu
Premium Member
2006-Oct-6 9:07 pm
Regardless of functionality, I'm really glad to see some activity directed at gamers. Gamers as a target for a marketing group might be a small percentage, but I think gamers are a predictable target. If someone will spend $3000 on a gaming rig, because they're a "Serious Gamer", another fifteen dollars to assist in a decent connection is pretty trivial.
If I thought I could help my 98ms ping to xbox live with 25% packet loss, I'd do it in heartbeat. For me, the irony is that I can't call my provider ( comcastic) tell them what I want ( lower ping to a specific ip; additional upstream bandwidth from 768k to 1500k )and then have them give me a price.
I'd pay it. I mean why wouldn't I? It's what I want; right?
So it's nice to see someone with the initiative to make move like this. I don't know how many times I've told comcast staff that they're missing a lucrative marketing opportunity by not catering to gamers, ad even going so far as partnering with Xboxlive and some of the other gaming providers like Steam as an example.
Who better than your provider to help you shape packets and connections? Well if my provider isn't, or won't help me, I'd certainly entertain a third party alternative.
I hope these guys make a go of it. I think it's a marvelous idea. It may, or may not work initially, but the concept is sound. At some point, they'll figure it out. At least they will if they're motivated to.......So I better get that url and send my $15 as a carrot for sure.
Dailu | |
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