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GameRail: National Fiber Gamer's Network
Well, kind of....

GameRail touts itself on the company's website as "the first nationwide network designed exclusively for optimizing online gaming traffic, greatly decreasing latency and increasing the quality of the transmission you receive through your current broadband provider." The company hopes gamers will pay $10-$15 a month for a 35ms ping from NY to LA.

The company has basically cuddled up to the major backbone providers in order to clean up your routing. They'll primarily be sending your Counter-Strike packets via a private slice of the BroadWing Communications network. The problem is your ISP and game-server host needs to have a direct peering relationship with Gamerail, and we'll wager most won't.

The company's chief, Darrell Gentry, optimistically explains the system in greater detail to GotFrag; also check out the GameRail FAQ. The service is in beta, and aims to serve 7 cities by the end of the month: Atlanta, New York, Chicago, St. Louis, San Francisco Bay Area, Dallas, and Los Angeles.
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fcisler
Premium Member
join:2004-06-14
Riverhead, NY

fcisler

Premium Member

Ok..

So lemme get this straight...they are acomplishing this with SOFTWARE on an end users pc right now?

Via WHAT? ssh tunneling?

When that's "eliminated"....how is Joe, who pays his $15 a month, going to get routed out of his ISP's network, and instead of hitting...let's say Level 3...hit GameRail??

Now what about when his ISP oversells his node, and his ping to the headend is 300ms? How does this help him?

Correct me if i'm wrong - i'm not a big gamer here. MOST gamers that I know though, are a bit tech savvy. If their ping is 200ms, they are gonna pinpoint WHERE the problem is - brother downloading porn, ISP oversold, etc - and tackle that problem first (get a new ISP, beat brother, etc)

Would any of you hard-core gamers out there pay for this?

Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

1 recommendation

Cheese

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

said by fcisler:

So lemme get this straight...they are acomplishing this with SOFTWARE on an end users pc right now?

Via WHAT? ssh tunneling?

When that's "eliminated"....how is Joe, who pays his $15 a month, going to get routed out of his ISP's network, and instead of hitting...let's say Level 3...hit GameRail??

Now what about when his ISP oversells his node, and his ping to the headend is 300ms? How does this help him?

Correct me if i'm wrong - i'm not a big gamer here. MOST gamers that I know though, are a bit tech savvy. If their ping is 200ms, they are gonna pinpoint WHERE the problem is - brother downloading porn, ISP oversold, etc - and tackle that problem first (get a new ISP, beat brother, etc)

Would any of you hard-core gamers out there pay for this?
Negative.

jessegr
join:2005-03-05
Ottawa, ON

jessegr to fcisler

Member

to fcisler

gamerail

More information. Gotfrag and gamerail are closely related.
»hardware.gotfrag.com/por ··· y/34782/

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: gamerail

said by jessegr:

More information. Gotfrag and gamerail are closely related.
»hardware.gotfrag.com/por ··· y/34782/
They are closely related because they interviewed the CEO of GameRail?

jessegr
join:2005-03-05
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

1 recommendation

jessegr

Member

Re: gamerail

Their closely related because Jason "Alchemist" Baker Gamerails Director of Product Development is one of the higher ups for gotfrag.

rogunit
Uhhh, Sir?
Premium Member
join:1999-09-18
Phoenix, AZ

rogunit to fcisler

Premium Member

to fcisler

Re: Ok..

Not a chance!
53059959 (banned)
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

53059959 (banned)

Member

Re: Ok..

said by This Article :

for a 35ms ping from NY to LA
laws of physics say otherwise
bmn
? ? ?

join:2001-03-15
hiatus

bmn

Re: Ok..

said by 53059959:
said by This Article :

for a 35ms ping from NY to LA
laws of physics say otherwise
Yeah, it is nice how they cheat and use one way latency instead of RTT.
Jerkface
join:2005-06-05
Hackettstown, NJ

Jerkface to fcisler

Member

to fcisler
BANDWIDTH FTL
Slacker44
join:2001-05-10
Gilbert, AZ

Slacker44 to fcisler

Member

to fcisler
This would have been great 5+ years ago. It's easy to find low ping servers now for any popular game.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536 to fcisler

Premium Member

to fcisler
Are there any SLA's or QoS guarantees on this service? if not, FORGET IT!

rawgerz
The hell was that?
Premium Member
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA

rawgerz to fcisler

Premium Member

to fcisler
If I did the math correctly, speed of light 186,000 miles per second and NY to LA roughly 2,500 miles.
It would equal about 15ms One way.. low 30's for a ping.
Interesting.. because that's almost no added latency from each hop along the way.

When I first read '35ms' I thought it was impossible. But I guess 100ms from EC to WC is quite a lot after all
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah

Member

Re: Ok..

Well, the speed of light in fiber is not 186,000 MPsec. And then there is latency added for every routed hop or switched hop where the light is converted to electrical signals and then back to light.

The best I've seen on a cross country link is about 50 - 55ms, and that's on a brand new OC-48 with no traffic on it. And that's just from router to router.

If you start at your home PC and go through the hops to get across the country to an end server, 100ms isn't that out of the ordinary.
grandpinaple8
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY

grandpinaple8

Member

Re: Ok..

I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY.

brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium Member
join:2003-03-31
Ocean Springs, MS

brandon

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

said by grandpinaple8:

I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY.
From south mississippi I ping 60s to San Jose.

AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium Member
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX

AmeritecTech

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

said by brandon:
said by grandpinaple8:

I regularly get 70ms ping to hotel california cs server from NY.
From south mississippi I ping 60s to San Jose.
That's pretty awful.

Tweak
Premium Member
join:2002-06-08
Colonial Heights, VA

Tweak to fcisler

Premium Member

to fcisler
This going to rock with my new "lag killing nic"
The tubes will not get so clogged up either! Now if I could only keep the trucks away!
chrislo
join:2004-02-02
Hawley, PA

chrislo to fcisler

Member

to fcisler
Hell no, I already pay $50 a month with Optimum Online and my ping is great (Minus the times the server is crappy). I play BF2 which is very intensive on the PC and ISP and I haven't had any problems on my end that I noticed.

For $15 more a month I can probably update to the 30 MB service I have been hearing about.

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

Maxo to fcisler

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to fcisler
I don't see how they could help customers with interleave like most of Sprint's customers are.

AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium Member
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX

AmeritecTech

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

That's a very small part of their potential market, don't you think?

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

Maxo

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

said by AmeritecTech:

That's a very small part of their potential market, don't you think?
Nope. Sprint puts most of it's customer's on interleave by default. It's company policy to not put customer's on fastpath, even if their line is rock solid. A small number of DSLAMs they implement put customer's on fastpath by default, but for most of us it's interleave.

AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium Member
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX

AmeritecTech

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

How many customers does Sprint DSL have?

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium Member
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

Maxo

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

said by AmeritecTech:

How many customers does Sprint DSL have?
No eye dear.

AmeritecTech
Change we can believe in, 1922
Premium Member
join:2002-09-06
Houston, TX

AmeritecTech

Premium Member

Re: Ok..

Well anyway...

the major ISPs in this country are the major telcos and the cable companies. I doubt Game Rail is wringing their hands about the interleave customers they're losing on Sprint...but who knows.
StaticMan
join:2006-06-21
23534

1 edit

StaticMan

Member

wha?

so what is happening here? i am goinf to pay 10-15 buck for you to redirect my traceroute so that i get lower pings? do they just change the hops your connection takes so that it passes through higher speed trunks? and what about MMO's that are based internationally, are those going to be improves if included in the service? i play my online games ALOT and i am tech savvy, but i just dont see enough info to understand how they are going to accomplish this.

TongSama
join:2002-07-04
Santa Rosa, CA

TongSama

Member

Re: wha?

magic of course.. gamers already know wat causes lag so i dont know how they are gonna make money with this

Toadman
Hypnotoad
join:2001-11-28
Mystery

Toadman to StaticMan

Member

to StaticMan
said by StaticMan:

so what is happening here? i am goinf to pay 10-15 buck for you to redirect my traceroute so that i get lower pings? do they just change the hops your connection takes so that it passes through higher speed trunks? and what about MMO's that are based internationally, are those going to be improves if included in the service? i play my online games ALOT and i am tech savvy, but i just dont see enough info to understand how they are going to accomplish this.
They plan on accomplishing this easily. They will lay a direct cable connection between your home and St. Louis. The only problem is you need to get your neighbors and every one else's permission that the cable crosses their property!
StaticMan
join:2006-06-21
23534

StaticMan

Member

Re: wha?

and i suppose the are going to alos put me some repeaters in (for an extra price) to stop the attenuation too right? LOL.

Raptor
Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21
London, ON

Raptor

Member

RTA

If you read the article it will describe what it is alleviating. This solution will NOT fix any issues you have on your local node. What it WILL fix, are poor routings, and latency time it takes to make 30 hops to wherever you need to go via regular routes, as apparently, there will be a more direct route given to your prioritized packets.

No one is saying this magically fixes the client side end if you have problems on your very own neighbourhood node. If you can clear your own ISP's network, you're off to the races. If you read the article you would understand this.
StaticMan
join:2006-06-21
23534

4 edits

StaticMan

Member

Re: RTA

if your internet connection takes 30 hops to go anywhere than you definately have a problem. i live on the east coast and i can tracert most west coast servers in 10-15 hops MAX. dont get me wrong, IF it works more power to them, but many of these claims have been made recently and nobody has put forth any real significant "lag reducing" solutions yet. I just see all these things stating what they are going to do, but until they give me some more info on HOW they plan on doing it, i am going to be skeptical.

dv41
What was that?
Premium Member
join:2005-04-19
Goleta, CA

dv41

Premium Member

I guess its all peering

I took the time to skim over the actual article that they linked to in the post and they have peered with the major ISP's to somehow get special routing for people using the gamerail software..

It sounds sketchy to me, I would love to try it out and see if what they say is true...Not to mention the speeds would definitely be greater with the reduced latency..I wonder what the software does and if it differentiates game traffic..

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

1 recommendation

RARPSL

Member

Re: I guess its all peering

said by dv41:

It sounds sketchy to me, I would love to try it out and see if what they say is true...Not to mention the speeds would definitely be greater with the reduced latency..I wonder what the software does and if it differentiates game traffic..
One way to do this is to use IPv6 Tunneling. So long as you are using IPv6 Packets (even if they are enveloped in an IPv4 Packet), you can ask for Special Routing as well as a QoS Priority via IPv6 Headers. Once DOCS 3.0 comes out the ability to DIRECTLY use IPv6 will eliminate the need to envelope since you will then have a dual-stack that can be used (right now the IPv6 side is not usable since the networks will not assign you an IPv6 IPN.
bbenso1
join:2004-11-28
Baltimore, MD

bbenso1

Member

Net Neutrality Issues?

Does anyone else besides me see this getting rolling and then all the ISP's coming back and saying, "See, if there were net neutrality laws in place we wouldn't be able to do this kind of packet prioritization and optimized routing."?

While this is not typical web traffic like, say, prioritizing google over yahoo, it still seems like it might be a slippery slope as far as the whole net neutrality debate is concerned...

•••••
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

rarly makes sense

For cable modems, 99% of slowdowns and ping problems are your fiber node, never the backbone (almost always Level 3, AKA Fat Tony's USA Internet), but once in a blue moon Level 3 does have insane routing, like sending all Verizon MA customer's packets through Texas to get to back to other Verizon MA customers. This service would only make sense for DSL subscribers that have ping problems, since DSL is a circuit to the backbone/CO and there is rarly a problem with the last mile affecting DSL pings like with cable.

There is some point in routing packets onto a QOS optimized backbone such as GameRail very close to the CO/headend, but since the service is only practical for DSL customers (circuit nature), GameRail should just become a DSL ISP/CLEC and route off the DSLAM straight onto it's backbone and skip ALL non-GameRail level 3 routers/links, while the current plan will have packets bouncing around a city's backbone routers and probably encounter the same problem that the customer who went to GameRail tried to get rid off.

•••••

twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium Member
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON

twizlar

Premium Member

Hmm

This will technically work, however they need co-operation from the LOCAL isps, so that they can peer directly with them, otherwise to most people this is quite useless. Good idea though.

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium Member
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Michieru2

Premium Member

Funny how all the locations described are exactly where Speakeasy servers are located. Wasn't Speakeasy created from a coffee shop or gaming company?

You where basically routed inside the speakeasy network as long as both customers where from SE and games where hosted on the ISP end. Meaning Someone in LA who has 30ms will still get around 30ms even if the connection is around Chicago because you are traveling over a fiber line instead being routed through 3rd party peers plus I am sure the traffic was prioritized.

Which is why Speakeasy boasts so much of there network. So to say they are going to be the first nationwide network designed exclusively for games I doubt there position and how exactly there going to pull it off with third parties.

Bill
Premium Member
join:2001-12-09

Bill

Premium Member

Re: Hmm

I doubt it has anything to do with Speakeasy being at those locations. All the mentioned areas have major data centers where most gaming servers are already located.
dailu
Premium Member
join:2003-12-03
Mystic, CT

dailu

Premium Member

Regardless of functionality, I'm really glad to see some activity directed at gamers. Gamers as a target for a marketing group might be a small percentage, but I think gamers are a predictable target. If someone will spend $3000 on a gaming rig, because they're a "Serious Gamer", another fifteen dollars to assist in a decent connection is pretty trivial.

If I thought I could help my 98ms ping to xbox live with 25% packet loss, I'd do it in heartbeat. For me, the irony is that I can't call my provider ( comcastic) tell them what I want ( lower ping to a specific ip; additional upstream bandwidth from 768k to 1500k )and then have them give me a price.

I'd pay it. I mean why wouldn't I? It's what I want; right?

So it's nice to see someone with the initiative to make move like this. I don't know how many times I've told comcast staff that they're missing a lucrative marketing opportunity by not catering to gamers, ad even going so far as partnering with Xboxlive and some of the other gaming providers like Steam as an example.

Who better than your provider to help you shape packets and connections? Well if my provider isn't, or won't help me, I'd certainly entertain a third party alternative.

I hope these guys make a go of it. I think it's a marvelous idea. It may, or may not work initially, but the concept is sound. At some point, they'll figure it out. At least they will if they're motivated to.......So I better get that url and send my $15 as a carrot for sure.

Dailu

EnasYorl
Thieves World
join:2001-12-02
West
·Ziply Fiber
Motorola MB8600
Netgear RAX15
Asus RT-AC66

EnasYorl

Member

With Public peering as well as Private Peering and the posted video shows this puppy has legs.

For those of us who group with Clans etc on a fixed server any way we can all get our pings down is worth $10 to $15/month.

»www.google.com/search?hl ··· G=Search