It's Hard to Be a Pirate Finnish, American crackdowns. Friday Oct 27 2006 15:39 EDT "Four out of eight administrators of the Finnish BitTorrent tracker “Finreactor” have been declared guilty in court and have to pay damages totalling 60,000 dollars each", reports Torrent Freak. Meanwhile Grant T. Stanley, 23, was sentenced to five months in prison for copyright infringement via the Elite Torrents group, reports the Associated Press. Stanley was nabbed as part of Operation D-Elite, which we mentioned in May of last year. |
  thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 1:52 pm
Such a waste of time and resources.How about going after the people who sell and distribute big time to lots of people on the streets, who actually make money off of it and attempting to replace the real physical product. Opposed to people who are just sharing stuff they like with others. Torrents are lame, anyway. Usenet's where it's at, and they have nothing there. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
|  |  Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
|
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:02 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:How about going after the people who sell and distribute big time to lots of people on the streets, who actually make money off of it and attempting to replace the real physical product. Opposed to people who are just sharing stuff they like with others. Torrents are lame, anyway. Usenet's where it's at, and they have nothing there. Just because one crime has a larger impact on society than another doesn't mean we need to ignore or put aside the smaller crimes. Within law enforcement exists a web of different departments who focus on different levels or "categories" of crime. Anytime criminals (regardless of the nature of the crime) are caught and found guilty, that's a good thing. --
YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP! | |
| | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
1 edit |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:11 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.They're not "criminals". So he ran a website that indexed the locations of compressed digital music, movies, etc.. who cares? The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. This is a good example of where the law isn't really correct. The funding that went to the department that investigates this "crime" could go towards issues that matter, like underground drug rings, or towards less taxes, or towards providing free ice cream on your birthday if you're a U.S. citizen. Anything's better than throwing money away towards this. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
4 edits |
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:26 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:They're not "criminals". So he ran a website that indexed the locations of compressed digital music, movies, etc.. who cares? The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. This is a good example of where the law isn't really correct. The funding that went to the department that investigates this "crime" could go towards issues that matter, like underground drug rings, or towards less taxes, or towards providing free ice cream on your birthday if you're a U.S. citizen. Anything's better than throwing money away towards this. He facilitated a means for copyrighted material to be easily dispersed among others via a p2p application (in this case Bit Torrent). Your dislike/hatred for the RIAA is causing you to miss the point. What he did was ILLEGAL. And as I mentioned earlier, regardless of the impact the crime has on society, it's STILL A CRIME and needs to be addressed. Let me further address your comment regarding how funding could be used elsewhere to fight crime, and you used underground drug rings as an example. Well maybe if our government didn't have to worry about peasants such as Grant T. Stanley breaking the law they could actually focus on LARGER ISSUES. But as long as crime exists, regardless of the nature, then there will be law enforcement agencies attempting to crack down on it. Crime is crime. He committed a crime, he's a criminal. | |
| | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:28 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources. quote:
Let me further address your comment regarding how funding could be used elsewhere to fight crime, and you used underground drug rings as an example. Well maybe if our government didn't have to worry about peasants such as Grant T. Stanley breaking the law they could actually focus on LARGER ISSUES. But as long as crime exists, regardless of the nature, then there will be law enforcement agencies attempting to crack down on it.
Maybe if they weren't so busy focusing on someone downloading EMINEM WITHOUT ME.MP3, they'd be able to do the more important stuff. I find it silly that this is even illegal, which is what my original point was. This is like the betamax with cable/casette tape with radio arguement all over again. It scares me that they've actually gotten this far. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | | | Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
1 edit |
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:32 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.  said by thender2: quote:
Let me further address your comment regarding how funding could be used elsewhere to fight crime, and you used underground drug rings as an example. Well maybe if our government didn't have to worry about peasants such as Grant T. Stanley breaking the law they could actually focus on LARGER ISSUES. But as long as crime exists, regardless of the nature, then there will be law enforcement agencies attempting to crack down on it.
I find it silly that this is even illegal, which is what my original point was. This is like the betamax with cable/casette tape with radio arguement all over again. It scares me that they've actually gotten this far. Uhh you find it silly that it's illegal? I can't respond to that comment. | |
| | | | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:34 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Rob: said by thender2: quote:
Let me further address your comment regarding how funding could be used elsewhere to fight crime, and you used underground drug rings as an example. Well maybe if our government didn't have to worry about peasants such as Grant T. Stanley breaking the law they could actually focus on LARGER ISSUES. But as long as crime exists, regardless of the nature, then there will be law enforcement agencies attempting to crack down on it.
I find it silly that this is even illegal, which is what my original point was. This is like the betamax with cable/casette tape with radio arguement all over again. It scares me that they've actually gotten this far. Uhh you find it silly that it's illegal? I can't respond to that comment. Yeah, I do. Any studio or label I've applied for an internship at, and any teacher/producer/exec at the trade school I go to for audio enginnering finds it kind of funny that this is illegal, and doesn't even acknowledge it when discussing downloading/uploading music. It seems like a few upper level executives cried foul, payed lobbyists to make it seem like a much bigger issue than it really is. It's very silly that it's illegal when a huge percentage of your own industry disagrees with you. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | | | | | Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
|
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:37 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:said by Rob: said by thender2: quote:
Let me further address your comment regarding how funding could be used elsewhere to fight crime, and you used underground drug rings as an example. Well maybe if our government didn't have to worry about peasants such as Grant T. Stanley breaking the law they could actually focus on LARGER ISSUES. But as long as crime exists, regardless of the nature, then there will be law enforcement agencies attempting to crack down on it.
I find it silly that this is even illegal, which is what my original point was. This is like the betamax with cable/casette tape with radio arguement all over again. It scares me that they've actually gotten this far. Uhh you find it silly that it's illegal? I can't respond to that comment. Yeah, I do. Any studio or label I've applied for an internship at, and any teacher/producer/exec at the trade school I go to for audio enginnering finds it kind of funny that this is illegal, and doesn't even acknowledge it when discussing downloading/uploading music. It seems like a few upper level executives cried foul, payed lobbyists to make it seem like a much bigger issue than it really is. It's very silly that it's illegal when a huge percentage of your own industry disagrees with you. Right. --
YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP! | |
| | | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Rob:Right. Ok even if you do consider this a "crime". We are still wasting our money on something small, whenever we could use it for something better. There are much worse crimes out there going unpunished than downloading music. --
Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 | |
| | | | | | | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
1 edit |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 5:09 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.edited delete please | |
|
| | | | | | | |
to Rob
said by Rob: Uhh you find it silly that it's illegal? I can't respond to that comment. I can. There is still much discussion on whether or not file trading is in fact copyright infringement. There have been no true victories in the courts regarding this (just lots of out of court settlements). Copyright law makes exception for non-commercial use and also have stipulation on how many times you can charge royalties for a single piece of media. As far as I can tell the door is far from shut regarding the illegality of file trading. | |
|
| | | | ChainzzAka Snippy
join:2004-07-26
Sarnia, ON |
to Rob
said by Rob:Crime is crime. He committed a crime, he's a criminal.
so speeding is illegal, does that make me a criminal, or everyone for that matter? --
Truth has one destination, But many paths! | |
|
| | | | |
to thender2
When the RIAA (and Finnish equivalent) purchased the law, they bought enforcement to go along with it. That's why it's a priority. | |
| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR |
to thender2
said by thender2:They're not "criminals". Yes he is. he committed a crime, so he's a criminal. People don't get sent to jail unless they've violated a criminal statute. In this case, he facilitated free, worldwide distribution of intellectual property owned by someone else, without their permission. The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. iTunes, MSN Music, Napster, etc.; they offer plenty of legal alternatives. | |
| | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 3:06 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by PDXPLT:The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. iTunes, MSN Music, Napster, etc.; they offer plenty of legal alternatives.
Is it surprising that people want better than 128k WMA/AAC with DRM when they pay as much as the original CD costs for it. Again, I find it silly that they waste time on this. I also find it funny that when 90% of DSLR has no rebuttal, they use that homosexual eyeroll icon Rob seems to love. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | | | Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
1 edit |
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 3:45 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:said by PDXPLT:The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. iTunes, MSN Music, Napster, etc.; they offer plenty of legal alternatives.
Again, I find it silly that they waste time on this. I also find it funny that when 90% of DSLR has no rebuttal, they use that homosexual eyeroll icon Rob seems to love. What's the point of rebuttling against someone who clearly doesn't understand what upholding the law is? Regardless of the nature of the crime. A crime is a crime. Your attempting to justify breaking the law because the products available to consumers isn't up to par with what they want. It warrants neither a reply nor any further consideration. Your lack of respect for the law is appalling. You think what they did is right. | |
| | | | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
1 edit |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 3:55 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Rob:said by thender2:said by PDXPLT:The labels and major studios are against it, but do as much as they can to make people want to boycott their product, and offer no legal alternative. iTunes, MSN Music, Napster, etc.; they offer plenty of legal alternatives.
Again, I find it silly that they waste time on this. I also find it funny that when 90% of DSLR has no rebuttal, they use that homosexual eyeroll icon Rob seems to love. What's the point of rebuttling against someone who clearly doesn't understand what upholding the law is? Regardless of the nature of the crime. A crime is a crime. Your attempting to justify breaking the law because the products available to consumers isn't up to par with what they want. It warrants neither a reply nor any further consideration. Your lack of respect for the law is appalling. You think what they did is right. Just because labels are allowed to lobby new amendments(DMCA 2, for example) when the current laws don't fit their ideal definition if illegal doesn't mean they are much better than the people they call "criminals" themselves. Your blind following of laws that aim to eliminate what was considered fair use before the anti technology craze began in the early 80s also appalls me, but I don't point it out as if you're worse as a person for your beliefs. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | | | | | Rob
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL
kudos:2 ·Xfinity
|
Rob
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 4:07 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:Just because labels are allowed to lobby new amendments(DMCA 2, for example) when the current laws don't fit their ideal definition if illegal doesn't mean they are much better than the people they call "criminals" themselves. Your blind following of laws that aim to eliminate what was considered fair use before the anti technology craze began in the early 80s also appalls me, but I don't point it out as if you're worse as a person for your beliefs. Nobody is blind. I don't like the RIAA. I don't like their practices. I think they've been too comfortable over the years by ripping off consumers and now that consumers are taking a stance, they can't handle it. And lately, it isn't just the RIAA. It seems like many corporations can't handle the fact that consumers are tired of being taken advantaged of and want to look elsewhere for alternative solutions. The arguement I am making is... regardless of how bad the RIAA is ripping us off, breaking the law doesn't make you any better. You cannot justify breaking the law over something like stealing music. Now, if you were stealing food to feed your children, yes, I can understand, but music? Let's not allow our hatred for the RIAA misguide us and break the law. --
YourIP.US - Quickly Locate Your IP! | |
| | | | | | | | |  karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Signal Mountain, TN ·EPB Fiber Optics
·Xfinity
|
Re: Such a waste of time and resources."You cannot justify breaking the law over something like stealing music. Now, if you were stealing food to feed your children, yes, I can understand, but music? Let's not allow our hatred for the RIAA misguide us and break the law."
You make no sense. If stealing FOOD is ok, why is copyright infringement wrong? I think you just have an issue with the fact that technology allows a perfect copy of something to be made, but the original still exists. In a copyright infringement, there is NO LOSS of the original. It's a COPY. How could that have any penalty/cost to society where someone could STEAL FOOD, which deprives the owner of their product, and get a smaller penalty, than the penalty for making a COPY of something. The law is WRONG.
The law is stupid. I think the law is stupid, and I choose to ignore the law. The problem is that the vast majority of people believe like I do. And THAT is what terrifies the **AA's. Because we now have a large segment of the population that just....doesn't....care about the so called 'law'. If I was taking something from someone, that is stealing. Making a digital copy is NOT STEALING.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
| | | | | | | | | |  dispatcher21911 Where is your emergency?
join:2004-01-22
united state
kudos:1 |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.Delusions of grandeur. The majority of people DO NOT believe like you do. The only ones that do are the ones that know they are doing something wrong and illegal but try to justify it by saying the law is stupid. | |
| | | | | | | | | |  Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
to karlmarx
said by karlmarx:If stealing FOOD is ok, why is copyright infringement wrong? ...do you even read what you post? Breaking the law for life's essentials (ie. food, water, shelter) isn't exactly ideal, but is understandable that it needs to be done. However, simply not owning the latest release of whatever hardly seems life-threatening or critical in the least. People can deal without a fully-stocked MP3 player, not having food is a different level of concern entirely. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.you are still missing the point... The record labels do not offer the products at a reasonable price to the consumer... so the consumer ends up punished for this trade groups inability or unwillingness to satisfy at a reasonable price what the market demands. Society is setup so that fees are set at just the right level, if the price is too high then black market emerges or people seek to avoid. This is the challenge of all 3rd world governments currently setting just the right levy that encourages payment and still fills the coffers. Piracy will continue to thrive until such time as the product offering is in line with what consumers expect and don't feel ripped off. The RIAA's pipe dream of selling 128mp3's for 1 dollar each is a pathetic attempt at skimming the very top of the market. They are going to have to get much more serious about pricing for me to take them seriously. I mean come on... they don't even bother to include photos, biography, notes on the artists in their downloads... and what would all that cost ? | |
| | | | | | | | | | dispatcher21911 Where is your emergency?
join:2004-01-22
united state
kudos:1 ·Charter
|
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.Again, the law is the law. You try to justify piriting by saying that the market is out of balance. That justifies breaking the law? No! All that means is that people are to cheap to buy something for the going rate that they THINK should be cheaper. You as a consumer have two choices, buy the items at the current price and keep prices where they are or not buy the product until the prices come down to your price point. There is no third option of breaking the law to get what you cant afford. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.too bad the rest of the world are utilitarians and you are one of the few idealists | |
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 11:46 am
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by backness:too bad the rest of the world are utilitarians and you are one of the few idealists No, I just personally hate to see people become **AA legal cannonfodder for their "woe is us" crusade. Yes their pricing/legal practices are shameful, but to willingly bring down said attentions to yourself personally as a "consumer right" is...well, stupid. You play with fire, and you're bound to get burned. The **AA is just like any other company. If you don't like the product, service, etc. about the company, stop putting money/attention into it. Then they will be forced with the realization of "Hey, our product sucks" and change business practices. | |
|
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler |
to backness
said by backness:The record labels do not offer the products at a reasonable price to the consumer... so the consumer ends up punished for this trade groups inability or unwillingness to satisfy at a reasonable price what the market demands. Okay, first off, if the price/service/etc. of a company is unreasonable, ripping off the company is not the way to file your objections. For example, movie tickets have gotten expensive as of lately. How does that give me permission to sneak in the back alleyway and take a gander? No, I just simply stop going to said overpriced movies, and wait for a cheaper DVD rental at home. And second, how exactly is the consumer "punished"? I have yet to see a **AA goon force me into buying their overpriced garbage. Nor would I say my quality of life has been impacted either, as my MP3 player is full of independants songs, and the occasional RIAA-sponsored CD that I happen to feel was a good investment. If you don't like the product, service, or actions of a company, then stop interacting with them! | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.time and time again... this is what happens... if i price is unreasonable people don't pay... they find a way around it (like your example of sneaking in the movies). Is it right, no... is it going to happen? Yes.
Lets use your example if it didn't cost 10$ to get in the movie and say the price were say 3$ Don't you think you would be less inclined to try and sneak in? The worlds ethics are based on economy i'm sorry you don't understand this. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 2:29 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by backness:The worlds ethics are based on economy i'm sorry you don't understand this. True, but when you get busted for sneaking into theaters and/or downloading illegal MP3s, simply saying "it was too expensive" isn't going to do you didly squat. People who justify a crime as an excuse for doing so are only kidding themselves once Karma catches up. People should be accountable for their actions. For those who pirate products as their form of "sticking it to the man", please don't go singing sad songs once you're hit with the legal repercussions of such. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA |
Ahrenl
Member
2006-Oct-29 7:32 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.The penalty should fit the crime however. If you're caught sneaking in the back of movie theatre, chances are you're thrown out and told not to come back. If you do, they probably charge you with trespassing, pay a small fine. 150k per infraction for breaking what amounts to a civil crime, is egregious. I mean, companies who abuse monopoly powers and ruin 100,000's of lives only pay x3 damages. By their own pricing you are paying x150,000 damages. Not to mention they keep making copyright time periods longer, and longer. These companies have manipulated the law in an unconstitutional way, which is why they are scared to bring a suit to court. Until there is even a precedent in this country, I'd be wary of saying anything is actually illegal. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 8:50 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Ahrenl:The penalty should fit the crime however. If you're caught sneaking in the back of movie theatre, chances are you're thrown out and told not to come back. If you do, they probably charge you with trespassing, pay a small fine. 150k per infraction for breaking what amounts to a civil crime, is egregious. I mean, companies who abuse monopoly powers and ruin 100,000's of lives only pay x3 damages. By their own pricing you are paying x150,000 damages. Not to mention they keep making copyright time periods longer, and longer. These companies have manipulated the law in an unconstitutional way, which is why they are scared to bring a suit to court. Until there is even a precedent in this country, I'd be wary of saying anything is actually illegal. True, but as such, they have the legal strength already set before them in the DMCA sellout. If you are in disagreement (which many sound like they are), then that's something to take to your local represenatives. If you are in disagreement with the company in general, then speak with your wallet, and take to other musical sources. When you break laws, be they piracy or out of protest, you do so knowing the "legal" limits of the law they can hold you to. Write letters and boycott a crappy industry's crappy product, but giving these justifications after-the-fact of pirating their goods just personally doesn't hold a lot of sympathy. | |
| | | | | | | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
1 edit |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 9:23 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Thaler:said by Ahrenl:The penalty should fit the crime however. If you're caught sneaking in the back of movie theatre, chances are you're thrown out and told not to come back. If you do, they probably charge you with trespassing, pay a small fine. 150k per infraction for breaking what amounts to a civil crime, is egregious. I mean, companies who abuse monopoly powers and ruin 100,000's of lives only pay x3 damages. By their own pricing you are paying x150,000 damages. Not to mention they keep making copyright time periods longer, and longer. These companies have manipulated the law in an unconstitutional way, which is why they are scared to bring a suit to court. Until there is even a precedent in this country, I'd be wary of saying anything is actually illegal. True, but as such, they have the legal strength already set before them in the DMCA sellout. If you are in disagreement (which many sound like they are), then that's something to take to your local represenatives. If you are in disagreement with the company in general, then speak with your wallet, and take to other musical sources. When you break laws, be they piracy or out of protest, you do so knowing the "legal" limits of the law they can hold you to. Write letters and boycott a crappy industry's crappy product, but giving these justifications after-the-fact of pirating their goods just personally doesn't hold a lot of sympathy. Heh. Try contacting your local representatives on the issue. I've sent emails, called, done good old pen and paper letters. I didn't even get the courtesy letter you usually have mailed to you "thank you for writing, we are not going to ever read or consider your suggestion but we appreciate your feedback", just automated emails. I read that some people have heard back from Rick Boucher on the issue, but most representatives do not find this to be an issue worth caring about. --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 10:22 pm
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by thender2:Heh. Try contacting your local representatives on the issue. I've sent emails, called, done good old pen and paper letters. I didn't even get the courtesy letter you usually have mailed to you "thank you for writing, we are not going to ever read or consider your suggestion but we appreciate your feedback", just automated emails. I read that some people have heard back from Rick Boucher on the issue, but most representatives do not find this to be an issue worth caring about. Hey, I didn't say it was a functional option. Given the government system at hand, that's about all the populace has to "motivate" their representatives.  | |
|
| | | | | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA |
to Thaler
Well, firstly I'd like to point out that I'M not willing to go to jail or pay fines for this, so this is purely academic.
My point was that until there is a precedent for any new law, especially one that resembles swiss cheese, and is about as constitutional as legalizing forced servitude, it's difficult to even say breaking it is illegal. Even if they bought a few lower judges, until a law has been through a full appeals process, it's not really a law.
You can bet their lawyers know this too, otherwise with the amount of money they've been spending, and the potential rewards (think 300,000,000 people X $150,000 ea. X # of Mp3's), there would already be millions of law suits pending. They could basically just rake the national income into their coffers. What is the US consumer worth? Something like $56 Trillion in household assets? | |
| | | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium Member
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3 |
Thaler
Premium Member
2006-Oct-30 10:05 am
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Ahrenl:Well, firstly I'd like to point out that I'M not willing to go to jail or pay fines for this, so this is purely academic. My point was that until there is a precedent for any new law, especially one that resembles swiss cheese, and is about as constitutional as legalizing forced servitude, it's difficult to even say breaking it is illegal. Even if they bought a few lower judges, until a law has been through a full appeals process, it's not really a law. You can bet their lawyers know this too, otherwise with the amount of money they've been spending, and the potential rewards (think 300,000,000 people X $150,000 ea. X # of Mp3's), there would already be millions of law suits pending. They could basically just rake the national income into their coffers. What is the US consumer worth? Something like $56 Trillion in household assets? True, but until we have someone who's got the bankroll to supply the civil lawyer fees and risk it on a questionable judgment, we're left with the one-sided interpretation of the **AA's lawyers.  | |
| | | | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.oh and btw I live in Canada so i'm in the clear :P | |
|
| | | | | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR |
to thender2
Your blind following of laws that aim to eliminate what was considered fair use ... Worldwide distribution of someone else's intellectual property for free, without their permission, has never been considered "fair use", and never will be. Labelling it with the euphanism "filesharing" doesn't change that. It's not like your just sharing a tape with a couple of your friends. | |
| | | | | | | | | thender2Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
2 edits |
thender2
Premium Member
2006-Oct-28 2:58 am
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by PDXPLT:Your blind following of laws that aim to eliminate what was considered fair use ... Worldwide distribution of someone else's intellectual property for free, without their permission, has never been considered "fair use", and never will be. Labelling it with the euphanism "filesharing" doesn't change that. It's not like your just sharing a tape with a couple of your friends. The laws against filesharing are in direct line with laws that prevent fair use, which was my intended point. The laws stemming from current anti piracy laws are not intended to prevent filesharing only, but just about any kind of fair use copying. Ripping a DVD to play on a portable player, for example, is illegal under the same DMCA related laws that are in place to prevent piracy, because you're breaking the encryption to do so. Their philosophy here is "let's use piracy as an excuse to lockdown everything", just as the FBI says(I say this as a conservative) "let's use terrorism and child porn as an excuse to throw away some privacy." --
The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
|
| | | | |  c0de8
join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA |
to thender2
i think that somebody in this thread just dosent like paying for stuff!
I wish everything was free, but if that was the case I would be out of a job, I work as a software developer/web application designer. So when you are downloading copys of software and/or music/movies from bit torrent or other sites, you are not paying for it. and even if MS and RIAA are some sort of satan spawn from the future that have come to ruin the internets as we know it; some of that money still makes its way to its creators.
And im not saying that Marc Walburg is poor because you downloaded The Departed to wack off to. but when millions of people download software and copywrighted material not only are you all breaking the law, but as a whole you hurt the industry you are stealing from. And this is espically true for the little guys in the software biz.
Stealing is wrong, and also illegal. You may call it "sharing" all you want, but the fact is that you got something for free that was not meant to be free. | |
| | | | | | |
•••••••• | | | | | | | |
to thender2
Then do what I do. Buy the CD (used if possible) and rip it to your favorite format at your favorite bitrate without any added DRM.
And as a side note, how is the eyeroll icon "homosexual"? | |
| | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.said by Jason Levine:Then do what I do. Buy the CD (used if possible) and rip it to your favorite format at your favorite bitrate without any added DRM. And as a side note, how is the eyeroll icon "homosexual"? Don't you know they added protection to prevent you from ripping it? They'd rather have you download it... | |
| | | | | | | | | |
Re: Such a waste of time and resources.I haven't found a CD yet that I couldn't rip. And I doubt I ever would encounter one. If it can be read by a CD Player to be played, then it can be read by a CD-ROM drive to be ripped. | |
|
| | | | Cyron
join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC |
to PDXPLT
In the US, non-commercial copyright infringement is not a criminal act. You can be sued for civil liability, but not sent to jail (unless the MP/RIAA have bought new laws in the past two years).
The fact that Denmark is sending people to jail, just shows how deep the Danish are in the xxAA's pockets. | |
| | | | | | |
to PDXPLT
said by PDXPLT:said by thender2:They're not "criminals". Yes he is. he committed a crime, so he's a criminal. People don't get sent to jail unless they've violated a criminal statute. Well I seem to think that there have been quite a few people sent to jail that were innocent. Just look at the stats of project innocent and the number of folk who have been exonerated of the supposed crime they committed. So I would think twice about your statement. | |
|
|  BIGMIKEQ
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Blythe, CA
|
to thender2
Pirates Discovery Channel Pirates We all know the popular conception of the pirate: eyepatch, sword, maybe a pegleg or hook for a hand. But in reality, the pirates' story is a truly exciting and tumultuous part of the sea's rich history. As Europe battled to extend her colonies and trade routes flourished, men of all ages, lured by the promise of great treasure, joined ranks to sail under the black flag. In this fascinating program, you will meet some of the most cunning and dangerous characters ever to sail the high seas - and some of it is stranger than fiction! » discoverychannel.co.in/r ··· ex.shtml» www.amazon.co.uk/Discove ··· 0004D0HX--
Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
| |  IhatemyISPMM1 Corbski
Premium Member
join:2003-01-27
Hampton, VA |
to thender2
God damn.... c0de8 , please read this. Also, stop using "cuz", it's stupid, much like yourself. As for those pulling the "it is still a crime to download copyrighted MP3s" card, get off you high horse. I am positive everyone in their right mind understands that. And just so you know, I too think that eye-rolling smiley is ridiculous. --
Torrentflux
It's ok, I'm taking it back... | |
|
| |
Pv8man999
Anon
2006-Oct-27 1:53 pm
ahh of course...Sue the programmer...right, because they are clearly responsible for whatever thier users might do (although there are agreements in place to protect the maker
sarcasm | |
|  Jehu
Premium Member
join:2002-09-13
MA
kudos:2 |
Jehu
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 1:57 pm
Impressive! | |
| | | |
Pv8man999
Anon
2006-Oct-27 2:34 pm
Re: ImpressiveAnother interesting fact is that the ones charged are under 18.
Just goes to show it does not matter which side the law is on, only how good your lawyer is at persuading idiots. | |
|
 FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5 |
FFH5
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:01 pm
News article has updated info» torrentfreak.com/underag ··· 00-each/Update: The IFPI just released a press-release( » www.ifpi.org/content/sec ··· 27a.html ) which confirms that 21 admins were convicted. They have to pay compensation, damages and expenses of approximately $700,000 (in total) to the copyright holders. 21 operators of the Finreactor peer-to-peer-network were convicted yesterday by the district court of Turku in Finland. Finreactor was a BitTorrent network that had 10,000 registered users. Fourteen operators were convicted for copyright offences and seven for aiding for copyright offences.
--
Join Red Room Forum
BLOG tkjunkmail.blogspot.com
My Web Page | |
| karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Signal Mountain, TN ·EPB Fiber Optics
·Xfinity
|
Be aware. Be Wise"Niko adds that at least one admin avoided the lawsuit because his hard drive was encrypted, and that there were more people on trial."
Words of Wisdom
Everyone should always encrypt their hard drives. Don't think the government will never go after YOU. My server drives are all encrypted with truecrypt. Lets see the jack booted thugs see any of MY personal information. Even with a warrant, you ALWAYS have the right to avoid self incrimination, and not giving up your server decrypt password falls under those rights.
www.truecrypt.org .. read it, use it. because tomorrow the bush regime could consider YOU an enemy of the state.
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 10mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
| |
••••••••••••••••••••••• | | |
No it isn'tJohnny Depp has made $200 million being a Pirate!  | |
| |  snipper_cr
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL |
Re: No it isn'tarrrr | |
| | |
 DaMaGeINCThe Lan Man
Premium Member
join:2002-06-08
Greenville, SC
kudos:2 |
hahaIdiots for getting caught. No pitty! | |
|  sirsloop
Premium Member
join:2004-02-18
New York, NY |
sirsloop
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 2:54 pm
zzzleave the pirates alone... put more cops on the streets to make more money for the politicians quadruple pension out of parking tickets and speeding tickets.  --
»www.tallmanphoto.com | |
| |
••••• |  pizzOld man. Who loves video games
Premium Member
join:2000-10-27
Astoria, NY
TP-Link Archer C7
ARRIS TG1672
|
pizz
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 4:31 pm
gotta love this countryWe can find those darn Internet MP3/Movie torrent people, but we cant find a guy who is 6ft 5 and has kidney failure, hooked up to dialysis.
god i love this countries priorities.
--
God is my co-pilot, but the Devil is my bombardier! -Anon- | |
| mythology
Premium Member
join:2002-10-16
Seneca, SC |
Thank GODAbout time some one locked up these harden criminals. Rapist, murderers, corrupt politicians and crack slinging thugs roam free but thank god we have these copyright infringing terrorist under control. How dare they listen to music and watch movies for free. DISGUSTING. | |
| | JBear
join:2005-02-24
canada |
JBear
Member
2006-Oct-27 4:57 pm
Re: Thank GODI call piraters pioneers. Well maybe not that far, but sometimes you have to nudge the boundaries to get people's attention. If everyone was a law abidding citizen, ugly corporations like the MPAA and RIAA would continue as usual raping the consumer. These measures by pirates are not even drastic or really really sneaky... yet.
Change/adaptation is good, apparently the MPAA and RIAA are changing only their tatics and not their business plans. Evolution will sort everything out, whether status quo stays or someone loses | |
|
 RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 ·XMission
|
RayW
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 5:17 pm
Laws.This thread reminds me of a few laws on/recently removed from the books. I had a class that listed a bunch of them (a Socialist trying to prove our system was wrong, as if they would not pass laws just as stupid for their own agendas).
Living in Utah now, the one I like is that it was illegal to be a Mormon in Missouri. If you were, you were fair game to be killed. Yet there were many Mormons in Missouri even before the law was repealed. (Saw that one in the papers with the Governor apologizing for it.)
In Ohio (and I do not recall if it has been removed yet) it was required that you have a person carrying a lamp in front of your car if driving at night. How many people have done that in the past 50 years?
A place I lived in California passed a law that forced the Mexicans (both wet and legal) to close their taco carts. Unpopular, but pushed (and paid) for by a rather influential owner of a bunch of fast junk food stores under the guise of sanitation. The Mexicans had a better and cheaper product and rather than compete he got a law passed that banned them from the streets. That sucked like a F5 tornado.
Another place I lived put up a stop sign on a curve 'to save the children' (no kids crossed there). The real purpose was to make money, it was hard to stop for it even if you lived in the area and drove by it several times a day.
Yes, one should obey the law, but sometimes when the money and power is against you and a bad law is bought, you can either roll over and play dead or just ignore it. Maybe someday the powers that got it passed will get the wrong person in court and it will unravel.
Oh, on a side note, I have a cop friend who said that on any given day, he can pull anyone in after a few minutes of driving because most people violate some law accidentally or unknowingly fairly often every day. But that is not the intent of the laws, and most of those violations are ignored. This does not count the ones that have been modified because rich people paid to have the enforcement changed (back in the 90's Texas was ordered by the Feds to stop enforcing truck safety laws 100% and go to a every X number of vehicles, too many powerful toes had been stepped on.)
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
| | BIGMIKEQ
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Blythe, CA ·Suddenlink
|
BIGMIKE
Premium Member
2006-Oct-27 6:22 pm
Re: Laws.stupid Laws
Drive your man crazy!
Country: USA
There is a law on the books of TENNESSEE that says a man must run in front of a vehicle that a woman is driving, and, that the car may not go faster than five miles an hour!
--
Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
|
| |
Okman5
Member
2006-Oct-27 5:55 pm
I will never pay a dime for any CDs by the big labelsnever | |
| |  TxRoadDawgWe're Gonna Ride Forever
join:2001-08-17
Warner Robins, GA |
Re: I will never pay a dime for any CDs by the big labelsAnyone can legally write a eula that says good luck hope the programs works. By the way, if it doesn't I promise I'll fix it some day at my own convenience of course. Oh yea, if my code does some unintended stuff, like reformat your c:, I'm sorry but you did take a chance buying this software. One more thing, no matter how bug ridden, incompatible, unfinished, or regardless of how unsatisfactory you find this software to be, after the box is opened good luck. No one does refunds on pos software.
That said sorry if some poor programmer cant turn into an overnight millionaire off his stock options, I well ALWAYS preview any software before buying it and will NOT buy a copy until such time as it is a quality product the same as any other item I may purchase, Being digital does not excuse shoddy workmanship.
--
some may call me an outlaw, they just don't understand... | |
| | |
| |
burnbabyburnfool
Anon
2006-Oct-27 5:56 pm
Too bad it wasn't 5 YEARS instead of 5 monthsPlay with fire and you get burned. | |
| |  Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
1 edit |
Re: Too bad it wasn't 5 YEARS instead of 5 monthssaid by burnbabyburnfool :
Play with fire and you get burned. Aaahhhhh, some fresh humor from our Taylor Troll. May I ask what took you so long today? --
Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill...
| |
| | |  furloniumShut up baby, I know it
join:2002-05-08
Allentown, PA |
Re: Too bad it wasn't 5 YEARS instead of 5 monthsoh Taylor, it's almost like you've been missed. A troll who's missed...how odd.  | |
|
 viperpa33sWhy Me?
Premium Member
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL |
If the intentIf the intent of the copyright act was to protect people's works from being copied then that's what it should be doing. IMHO, the copyright law is overly broad and badly written. Practically anything you do is in violation of the copyright act.
In fact you can take it so far as to say if you were to use Microsoft Office and print something after using the program, your printout would be considered copyrighted by Microsoft. Cause you used a copyrighted program to print material. Would never happen cause who would buy the product. This is how far the current copyright act takes it.
Or you have in the case of some software companies change your computer settings all in the name of copyright laws. The law grants you protection but that don't mean you can do whatever you want.
Just like if I wanted to do something and a friend of mine had the software on his computer to do it with. I didn't copy the software, I used his computer with the software on it. I am in violation of the copyright act. Cause I didn't buy the software for myself.
We have people screaming about the Patriot Act and how it allows the FBI to do what they want. Then you have the companies that use the copyright law to do what they want and no one says a thing. I forgot, I think the Sony issue was the only outrage.
In the past I use to buy allot of copyrighted works, music, software and movies. Now if I buy something it's once in a blue moon. I don't buy music, I listen to the radio. I don't buy movies ,I watch t.v. I support the media companies but in the least possible way. Until the law is rewritten then they don't deserve my business. | |
| | |
Lets check the Book of MormonLet us turn away our anger and see what the good Book of Mormon has to say about all of this. | |
| |
••••••••••• |  tippboogieBad Boy 4 Life
Premium Member
join:2001-12-13
Brooklyn, NY |
Please tell meI'm not defending anybody, but I don't see any crime being committed indexing all materials. So what about google search bar. If I was looking for a crack or serial, google point you right to the website that's hosting it.
--
Bad boy 4 life | |
|  brut7
join:2000-10-06
Babylon, NY ·magicJack
|
brut7
Member
2006-Oct-27 7:31 pm
LawsI think what we should be looking at here is the law/s.
Has the legislature been acting on behalf of the people/majority or the interests of corporations that pay for elections?
As Lou Dobbs said "We have the best government money can buy.".
Does this make Lou a patriot or a dissident?
I suppose you're opinion will be influenced by whether you are "The People" or the 1% that control everything.
Best Wishes | |
| | |
yo momma so dumb..my mom bought a DVD in Malaysia, instead of me going to Malaysia to watch it, she sent it my way. Not the disk, but only its contents, digitally. Uploading for a day and a half.
So did my mom do something illegal?
--
Saya anak malaysia | |
| |
••• | | |
okI personally hate the RIAA and MPAA with the image they have brought upon themselves.
1. If it wasn't for pirates developing the concept itunes would not exist.
2. If it wasn't for pirates celebrities would not be getting so much publicity to a fact that people will die for them( people look up to them as gods)
3. If you sue people without computers and say they are sharing pirated material your not to bright.
4. You sue dead people you obviously don't know how to conduct an investigation.
5. The fact that the RIAA/MPAA hires zombies to petrol p2p networks and cause useless internet traffic should be illegal.
6. The fact that they have lobbying power in congress does not mean they are allowed to do whatever they want.
7. I don't recall what news site i read it at but there's still like 40000+ underage pornography websites i am sure does are real criminals.
You find me one person that has not pirated anything in their entire life and i will clap for him/her.
The creators of finreactor did nothing wrong in my opinion, in fact they volunteered their time i am sure by developing a large tracker network.
The fact that the judge was probably computer clueless along with the jury scares me in their sentencing.
There needs to be a court at the state and federal level to deal directly with computer related issues/crimes in an up to date level. | |
|  SeleniaGentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:3
|
Selenia
Premium Member
2006-Oct-29 1:18 pm
Criminal may be a harsh word but...I am an avid filesharer myself so you know where I'm coming from. I despise how the MPAA and RIAA alienate their customers and resort to the same business model over and over by the force of suing dead people and children(literally). However, I am not going to try to fool anyone into thinking our actions should be legal. Anyone who performs illegal actions is a criminal, but there are varying degrees of the word. We may be immoral in the legal sense, rightfully so, all the filesharers I know(almost) are generous people who do what they think is a service to the rest. But just know what you're choosing to do and admit you're doing it is the best way. I do believe all this controversy is a sign it's high time for a change in business model for them. Other more innovative organisations have taken the hint and profited from it. I do believe they should pick on people who can try and defend themselves though, far as the lawsuits go. | |
|
| |
|
How about .. |
·
·
·
·
