 op
join:2005-07-16
Smyrna, DE | What about the others So what about the other people that dont use the parental lockdown? | |
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 | 
RedXII1234
Premium,Mod
join:2001-02-26
localhost | Re: What about the others My vote is for.. a non-admin account. Not a non-admin act-a-like, but something in the "Users" group and not the "Administrators" group. Doing that one of the first things I did. | |
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| hurfy
Premium
join:2002-08-06
Spokane, WA
| Aye, if you can't download stuff i guess that would cut down on the number of viruses you download...duh.
As an aside:
Most viruses are in fact Vista-compatable i assume since it seems (too) close to XP, yes?
Curious as i saw the inverse here. We had a virus sneak into office network but it didn't like my old win98se box without the lastest tools (not much installed for .net and VB etc) | |
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amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
 ·Cox HSI
| ok Well, now we wait and see how long it takes some enterprising hacker(s) to make something silly happen with Vista...
So far, Vista's selling points will be "trusted" hogwash, and shiny new game support with dx10..
I don't care either way, I'm going to wait awhile before jumping over to it... and by then, heck, I might just buy a Mac. | |
|
| 
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
 ·Site5.com
 ·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: ok said by amungus  :Well, now we wait and see how long it takes some enterprising hacker(s) to make something silly happen with Vista... So far, Vista's selling points will be "trusted" hogwash, and shiny new game support with dx10.. I don't care either way, I'm going to wait awhile before jumping over to it... and by then, heck, I might just buy a Mac. Microsoft controls a vast majority of the PCs today which can make for a support nightmare. Especially when the hacker community as a whole starts going through the millions of lines of code looking for exploits. If we all just moved to Macs or Linux, does anyone think that they would solve the problem? Would open source patches and updates be better than what we have now? What about the idiots who don't update their software, how would open source software deal with people like that? Seems that even Microsoft has to have answers for those people who are in the same boat who don't update, but who have been exploited. Why should we hold open source software to a different level?
If the software is coded by humans, there will always be exploits, holes, and backdoors to secure. Doesn't matter what OS you use.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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| | amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
clubs:
·Cox HSI
| Re: ok Very good points Nightfall.
No, I don't think that a shift to a different OS would solve the problem of hackers looking to exploit the (most) prevalent system(s). I merely think that by the time Vista is out and about (probably about June of '07) that I may not care so much for it. I may stick with XP, I may try a Mac on a G5, who knows...
Not due to the security, or lack thereof. My personal opinions on the entire "trusted" computing notions are equally spread amongst Microsoft, Intel, AMD, Apple, and whoever else is on board.
In my opinion, locking down the hardware, tying that control straight to the operating system, and betting that it will work for the forces of good, is not realistic. I am usually quite the optimist, but in this case, I have trouble imagining that everything will be as rosy as these companies would have us believe.
»www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html
...sorry to spin the topic a bit, but I do think it relates to the "warm and fuzzy" notions that MS is trying to convey about their new OS. | |
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buyacluefool
@comcast.net | This should make everyone sleep better at night... What idiots the folks at MICROSUCKS are! | |
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| 
hpguru
Curb Your Dogma
Premium
join:2002-04-12 | Re: This should make everyone sleep better at night... said by buyacluefool :
What idiots the folks at MICROSUCKS are!
He said from behind the parental controls.  | |
|
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
edit:
November 10th, @12:59PM
| "Windows Chief Says Vista Won't Need Antivirus" This is going to come back and haunt him big time.
What a f***ing idiot!
BTW does that mean they will discontinue One Care?
 | |
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| 
Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA | Re: "Windows Chief Says Vista Won't Need Antivirus" As an aside, he never said that. That's purely media spin twisting his statement that he felt alright letting his son use a locked-down version of Vista w/o a virus scanner.
Adam | |
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| | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: "Windows Chief Says Vista Won't Need Antivirus" said by Alpine :As an aside, he never said that. That's purely media spin twisting his statement that he felt alright letting his son use a locked-down version of Vista w/o a virus scanner. Adam In a purely semantic sense you are correct. In real world advertising, he said Vista is so secure with its features that it does not need a virus scanner to keep his computer safe.
Do not forget, most if not almost all people do not take the time (if they can even do it) to analyze a statement, they take it at face value. Hence, Vista is so secure that when it is locked down you will not need a virus scanner, even for a kid.
--
I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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|
herbkk
@pacbell.net
| Ya, wait until that son hits pre teen, downloads the latest linux or whatever iso to crack the admin accounts, and downloads tons of porn along with a bunch of sh1tware and who knows what else.
This is just a lame soundbyte to sell Vista to the clueless parents out there. | |
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| | Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL | Re: "Windows Chief Says Vista Won't Need Antivirus" just wait until his son wants to play games that need a admin account / popup UAP dialogs all the time. | |
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| | 
cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Charter Pipeline
| said by herbkk :
Ya, wait until that son hits pre teen, downloads the latest linux or whatever iso to crack the admin accounts, and downloads tons of porn along with a bunch of sh1tware and who knows what else.
This is just a lame soundbyte to sell Vista to the clueless parents out there.
Exactly. I let my 13 year old kid surf with no real time AV running (never have one running real time anyway) and he even uses IE, although I try to tell him to use Opera or Maxthon. I even installed Firefox (yuck!) for him to try. This is on a W2K box even. Never been infected yet. Other than the typical tracking cookies, Adaware and Spybot never find anything. Kaspersky Personal Pro has yet to detect anything also (when scanning system manually).
So, to me, that blows this guys theory all to heck already.
--
Do the walk
Zenwalk Linux 3.0 | |
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| raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA | Jim Allchin is leaving in January, so it will bite M$ in the ass | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX | Anyone remember a little boat... called "Titanic"? Their makers made a boast along these lines almost 100 years ago. | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | Re: Anyone remember a little boat... That's actually a scary and messed up thought, but I like it. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Anyone remember a little boat... said by White Star Lines :The Titanic disaster was the direct result of user arrogance. Same thing happens in *nix. See » Compromised...again...Try again. Okay, I'll add a little more to that first sentence of yours.
"direct result of user arrogance..." in part because of the over-hyped expectation of safety placed on the product before it went into use.
Still don't see any similarities?
--
That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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| | |
White Star Lines
@ameritech.net
| Re: Anyone remember a little boat... No. There was a reasonable expectation of advanced performance associated with the advanced shipbuilding technology employed in Titanic. That some did not use common sense and best practices in operation is not the fault of the ship. It is arguably not the direct fault of the owners/builders. The captain and crew disregarded warning signs and were caught out of their safe operating parameters.
Happens to pilots, drivers and even farmers driving tractors when they try to push the limits.
Just because a technology is described as "the safest ever" does not mean it is "safe". Car companies pass this lie on their customers every day. If VWs (for example) were really that good nobody would ever die in one. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Anyone remember a little boat... You believe that the hype leading up to and surrounding the maiden voyage of the Titanic couldn't have had any bearing whatsoever on the captain and crew's behavior?
Fine. But I sincerely doubt it.
However, back to the impending launch. This "advanced technology" of an operating system that has now been given some rather outrageous hype, or as you put it, a "reasonal expectation of advanced performance," will ultimately, continuing your comparison, remain within "safe operating parameters" as long as the end user (or "captain") employs "common sense and best practices in operation" and no "crew member" (or cracker/haxor/scriptkiddie for that matter) tries to "push the limits" or do something perhaps outside the realm of expected behavior once they install it.
Right.
Good luck with that one.
I'll stick with my assertion in another post in this thread about whether this whole thing will be remembered or not.
--
That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
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| | flotknot
Premium
join:2004-05-29
Calgary, AB
| Try what again?
What does your link have to do with anything?
Are you the fearless defender of all things microsoft, corporate, and/or republican here to engage in combat with the unwashed by proving nix systems are worse or no better than Windows?
And although I own M$ stock and choose to use their products, I wouldn't waste my energy defending the monopolistic, drm pushing, predatory Gateans. Don't be a patsy.
ps. This advice garnered from your non-sense link: "...retire that password and... turn to key-based authentication.." is good. Thanks. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Anyone remember a little boat... said by DataDoc :The owner made no such statement. Thanks for the clarification.
However, just who is the mystery gent (or gents) that had that original "thought"?
The Titanic disaster, though tragic in so many ways, would perhaps not have had the massive amount of publicity nor historic staying power attached to it had there not been the initial claim, from somewhere, that the boat was "practically unsinkable". That notion then entered the collective consciousness of the masses most forcefully.
I think it's possible the comments Allchin made about Vista may come back to haunt him.
If I'm proven wrong, won't nobody care.
But if I'm right, won't nobody forget.
--
That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
|
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
November 10th, @01:18PM
| meanwhile linux has been this secure for years I have no problem letting my 13 year old surf the net using Xubuntu linux.
Also Xubuntu runs fine on an old Thinkpad 433Mhz Celeron with 128MB RAM that I got for free on Craig's List.
Lets see Vista do that! 
»www.xubuntu.org/ | |
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| 
Matt
Running Free
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation
| Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years said by b10010011 :I have no problem letting my 13 year old surf the net using Xubuntu linux. Also Xubuntu runs fine on an old Thinkpad 433Mhz Celeron with 128MB RAM that I got for free on Craig's List. Lets see Vista do that! » www.xubuntu.org/ Games.
Connect to my MS Exchange server.
Let's see xubuntu do that! | |
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| | raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years Connect to my MS Exchange server.
Let's see xubuntu do that!
No problem. Have you heard of Outlook Web Access?
Works fine for my Linux an dMac clients who need access to e-mail on Exchange Server.
Think before youy speak | |
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| | |
Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast
| Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years said by raye : Connect to my MS Exchange server. Let's see xubuntu do that! No problem. Have you heard of Outlook Web Access? Works fine for my Linux an dMac clients who need access to e-mail on Exchange Server. Think before youy speak I think it is safe to say that there are pluses and minuses for every OS out there. I use Ubuntu as well as Windows and there are things that each one was suited for. There is no way I would run Games on a Ubuntu platform. When looking at the most secure OS, I wouldn't consider Windows to be that. Open source is a very strong selling point of Ubuntu and other Linux derivatives, but their support options suck total ass. At least I can get help in the Windows world easy enough in a lot of forums without being treated like someone who should find the problems himself in some Ubuntu forums. Course, Windows has sucked in the past when it comes to beta testing software, but that is something that Microsoft has changed with their very successful open beta tests with Office and IE7.
The point is that being a master of one isn't enough anymore. In order to be someone who truely knows what product is best for what task, you have to know both. You have to know what is out there and how to implement it.
The one thing I can't stand personally are Windows or Linux fanboys.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
|
| | | pumpkinhead7
join:2002-06-14
Fairmont, WV | Think before YOU speak, the outlook web client is in no way as feature rich or as fast as a true blue Outlook Client. | |
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| | | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO | Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years Outlook is more than e-mail. To name just one -- scheduling. It's usually much nicer in the fat client. | |
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| | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Technically, that's not really connecting to the Exchange server. It's connecting to a Microsoft web server that then connects to the Exchange server.
Certainly one could run IMAP or SMPT + POP3 and connect to Exchange but my guess is that the context of the message was to connect to Exchange using MAPI. I honestly don't know if that is or is not available on Linux. | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
edit:
November 10th, @04:58PM
| said by Matt :Games. Connect to my MS Exchange server. Let's see xubuntu do that! Games? What modern game in any OS can run on a Celeron 433 with 128MB ram?
THAT is what Vista can not do. Stick to the subject.
Get a game console if you want to play games. My son already has a Nintendo DS, thats where he plays games, his computer is used for internet access and school work.
The only PC game I play (Second Life) has a Linux client and runs fine in Ubuntu on my desktop.
Besides I bet I can get Xubuntu to connect to your Exchange server long before you can get Vista to even install on the old Celeron 433 with 128MB ram laptop. | |
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| | |
ender7074
@adp.com | Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years There is no comparison of playing a game on a console as oppsoed to playing games on a PC. I'm not defending anyone either way ( I love linux and windows) but dont compare apples to basketballs and expect to make a good point. | |
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notatroll
@verizon.net | although technically feasible (as is the case with winxp) Microsoft wont allow it because its against their licensing. | |
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HGDFGHFDG
@eircom.net
| Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years FOR NOW ANYWAY. LETS SEE WHATS AGAINST LICENCING IN 3-5 YEARS. BUT THEN AGAIN AS ALREADY POINTED OUT... GAMES!!
I'M GONNA BUY VISTA IN ABOUT 6 MONTHS. REMEMBER WHEN XP CAME OUT? NIGHTMARE TO GET ANY DRIVERS AT THE START FOR ANYTHING - INCLUDING GAMES!! | |
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| | | 
edward50
Premium
join:2006-06-10
Brookfield, MO
| Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years said by HGDFGHFDG :
FOR NOW ANYWAY. LETS SEE WHATS AGAINST LICENCING IN 3-5 YEARS. BUT THEN AGAIN AS ALREADY POINTED OUT... GAMES!!
I'M GONNA BUY VISTA IN ABOUT 6 MONTHS. REMEMBER WHEN XP CAME OUT? NIGHTMARE TO GET ANY DRIVERS AT THE START FOR ANYTHING - INCLUDING GAMES!!
Thanks for shouting - I am hearing impaired. | |
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Linus T
@ameritech.net | Re: meanwhile linux has been this secure for years You can screw Linux up just as badly. Make all of your user accounts admin or root and see what happens... | |
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| | b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by MysticGogeta :If I didn't play games I would go Linux, but I do so what can I do  Dual boot Linux and Windows on the same machine.
Thant's what I do. | |
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captokita
Premium
join:2005-02-22
Calabash, NC
| So? I can do that now with my XP SP2 computer....
Let's see, I don't go to pron sites, I don't open emails with funky attachments, I don't go to warez/crapware download sites.......
I don't see the point, let his kid loose with a wide open Vista machine, and see what happens. This guy is stating that in a CONTROLLED environment, he doesn't have to worry so much about viruses...... duh! | |
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| 
cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| Re: So? Exactly. Nothing like giving yourself praise and Kudos:
I did a great Job. Yessiree! I am so great! I am so modest! And look, I even insulted the majority of you by comparing you to my seven year old. And I got in the press, as Microsoft Exec should.
in the words of a TV commercial, Dew mass! | |
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mjgould
join:2006-04-30
Bowling Green, OH | Only time will tell It will be interesting to see just how much secure it really is when it goes out into the wild, I would not be surprised if at first, XP is considered more secure. | |
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| 
AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| Re: Only time will tell said by mjgould :It will be interesting to see just how much secure it really is when it goes out into the wild, I would not be surprised if at first, XP is considered more secure. Is IE7 still integrated into the OS in Vista?
Does IE7 still support ActiveX?
The answer to these questions ('yes', to anyone wondering) may give a clue as to how super-secure Vista is going to be. | |
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| | mjgould
join:2006-04-30
Bowling Green, OH | Re: Only time will tell So very true. | |
|
If U dont like So
@comcast.net
| Why so Much Stupidity I do believe what Mr. Allchin, is advocating is a safe computing environment for his home computers. Now, my "Big question" to all of you who immediately criticized him. What is wrong with him ensuring that his Son's computer is locked-down? and as any competent parent should do; Jim Allchin monitors his son's computer usage.
Where oh where in His comment does it say for any-one not to use antivirus software? He merely said that using his computer knowledge, he has made the computer safe for his son to use. With that added advantage, and Vista's emphasis on security, "he felt safe in allowing his own son" to use Vista, with a antivirus scanner.
Why does this make him or any person that might see merit in his confidence with Vista, wrong?
Stop your hatred. If you people do not want to use any Microsoft product; DO NOT. Many of you will jump at the chance to pirate anything; including all MS products. | |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: Why so Much Stupidity ...emphasis on security, "he felt safe in allowing his own son" to use Vista, with a antivirus scanner.
Oops - you missed one little bit of a word.
The phrase was "withOUT" an antivirus scanner.
That's the whole point of this discussion - Allchin said very plainly, when boiled down to it's most basic of basic PR points, and the one point that will be picked up by newspapers all over the country, is that Vista will apparently be "safe to operate WITHOUT an antivirus program".
Betting some folks are re-considering that job offer from Symantec tonight.
Doesn't matter how it was achieved, or whether he was being a good parent, or anything else. He got the zinger in there, and it was crafted so well that it won't be his fault if it's misinterpreted or taken out of context, which it most undoubtedly will be - oops again, already has been - over and over and over and over - by those who understand it and gleefully trumpet it knowing it's inaccurate and don't care and then also by those who don't have a clue and are merely repeating what they read or heard.
And now Microsoft is going to have to deal with the result, no matter what it turns out to be.
--
That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? | |
|
viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| Makes you wonder Just because he is outgoing, he was stupid for saying it. That kind of statement opens the company up to lawsuits if people got a virus due to his statement. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he was called into a meeting due to his actions. Makes you wonder how these guys can make the big money and then make stupid statements. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| Re: Makes you wonder said by viperpa33s : Makes you wonder how these guys can make the big money and then make stupid statements. First of all, people like Allchin aren't necessarily intelligent. Look at the preznit, he graduated from Harvard and Yale, but you'd never trust him with a stapler. Allchin can say pretty much whatever he wants because he's outgoing. He's already GOT his 24k golden parachute, and so, therefore, just like his foolish statements about Vista not needing AV, he can go to the press and say that Vista makes pigs fly and cures cancer and Microcrap probably won't have a legal leg to stand on. Never confuse intelligence with how much money someone makes.
--
The Toll
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bluebonics
@verizon.net
| Windows XP without virus scanner I've been using windows xp without a virus scanner for a long time and have yet to get a virus. as long as you don't run anything stupid, don't surf porn and crack sites and have a firewall running and ensure there are no open ports then there's no need for an antivirus... just remember, the new game that comes on dvd that you just downloaded that's 20k probably shouldn't be run... | |
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| patnitop
join:2005-02-22
USA
| Re: Windows XP without virus scanner Same here. Keep your system patched, use Zonealarm, and just use common sense. I have been without anti-virus for years now.
Anti-virus programs simply hog your memory and resources. Performance impact is just too great to keep running anti-virus programs. | |
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| | flotknot
Premium
join:2004-05-29
Calgary, AB
edit:
November 11th, @11:26AM
| Re: Windows XP without virus scanner So true. I took a look at software that would make my xpBox super-secure. But it was too damn slow and annoying...kinda like my quick test runs of vista rc1&2.
Personally, I wish they were touting Vista's speed, versatility, and rock solid core. But I don't know if those features are avaiable in vista.
All of this paranoia about security is BS. How many of you have known personally someone who has had their id stolen or died in a terroist attack?
Give me a fast solid customizeable OS and quick lines in the airport and stop making my life more difficult because we dont have the godless communists to demonize anymore.
sorry for the digression... :blush: | |
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andyb
Premium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario | VISTA allready ben hacked and available tonight.
PC App ISOs Microsoft Windows Vista Final (c) Microsoft BILLGATES 54x50 MB | |
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| lgkahn
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Londonderry, NH
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VISTA actual vista is pretty secure .. you cant wipe your ass in it without it popping up a dialog 8 times and asking if it is ok.. then denying it anyway.. I turned off pretty much all the additional security as I am sure most people will do since it is way to annoying... | |
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| | lgkahn
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Londonderry, NH
·Comcast
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: VISTA and the only reason his son has no anti-virus is because there was nothin good avail. I tried one and it didn't work for crap..
finally I am now running ca associates anti virus for vista and it works great.. there is a free 1 yr license from them | |
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Microsoft Praises Vista Security
