 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Except the guy standing on my lawn So now you can nail them with theft of service and criminal trespass.
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Ubuntu Tips »www.ubuntutips.org | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn said by NOCMan  :So now you can nail them with theft of service and criminal trespass. Unless you find a cop and a victim with really good IT skills, you're probably just going to get simple trespassing.
Since these phones work using both an open hotspot and traditional cell systems, the fact that the person is on your lawn with the phone isn't prima facia evidence he's using your hotspot to make the call. Unless the "victim" is savvy enough to pull the logs from his router and give them to the cop (and let's face it, if you're that savvy, you've all ready secured your router). Then the cop has to have the knowledge (and the initiative) to develop enough probable cause to obtain a search warrant for the contents of the freeloader's phone, and match the usage with those of the logs.
All of that for what is essentially a summary offense on par with a speeding ticket in most jurisdictions? Probably not. Maybe if it was an ongoing case....
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
2 edits | Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn said by N3OGH :said by NOCMan :So now you can nail them with theft of service and criminal trespass. Unless you find a cop and a victim with really good IT skills, you're probably just going to get simple trespassing. You aren't going to get any kind of "theft" or "trespassing" for a couple different reasons. First and foremost, unless you have a giant sign posted in a conspicuous place on the property that reads: "NO TRESPASSING." Secondly, most states don't have laws on the books making theft of a wifi signal a crime, and, lastly, do you really believe that you can pick up the phone, call local law enforcement and have them drop everything they're doing just to come running over to your house for the 90 seconds the stranger was allegedly "trespassing" on your lawn?
What're you gonna say? There is a big, bad scary man on muh propty wid one o'dem cellular phones...he's scarin' me wid his phone and I's don't like 'im on muh propty! Ooooooh, scary! Urgent. That'll get the PD right straight to your house ASAP. Get real. Ain't gonna happen. 
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The Toll
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| | | | i_do_dew
join:2001-10-28
Rochester, NY
1 edit | Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn said by major marco :
(SNIP)... lastly, do you really believe that you can pick up the phone, call local law enforcement and have them drop everything they're doing just to come running over to your house for the 90 seconds the stranger was allegedly "trespassing" on your lawn?
(SNIP)
That'll get the PD right straight to your house ASAP. Get real. Ain't gonna happen. Well there is that joke about the guy calling 911 because someone is stealing stuff out of his shed and is told that no police are available right now. Then calling 911 back and saying nevermind sending the police, because he shot them, and getting every police officer in the area.
The police arrive and catch the criminals in the shed, and say to the guy, "I thought you said you shot them." The guy replies "I thought you said there were no police officers available."
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PCs are like Christmas trees. Their prices are highly competitive, but they can bear loads of high-profit ornaments. --Var Business 20030408 | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| In my jurisdiction it would get you an officer. Some places have lower call volumes, and can provide that level of service.
Our motto? "No call too small"....
Heck, I'm working tonight and I bet I'll be going to at least 1 barking dog call, or something inane like that...
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn said by N3OGH :In my jurisdiction it would get you an officer. Some places have lower call volumes, and can provide that level of service. Our motto? "No call too small".... Heck, I'm working tonight and I bet I'll be going to at least 1 barking dog call, or something inane like that... Irrespective that you live in Pennsyltucky and the local PD apparently has absolutely nothing better to do than eat and have time enough to check into no call too small, what exactly do you think you're going to get your hypothetical "trespasser" charged with? "Theft" of wifi?
Check your state statutes. Your legislature is lucky it even knows what the Internet is, nevermind having written a law against stealing wifi with a cell phone to make a VOIP call. You're living in a dream world if you believe that you can have someone arrested for standing on your lawn with a cell phone doing what you imagine is "stealing" your wifi with his phone. The State Cops over there won't even arrest a raging drunk slugging his wife & kids if there isn't a PFA on file.
Good luck with your imaginary criminal charge(s). Be sure to report back here if you ever get a "trespasser" arrested for stealing your wifi with a cell phone for a VOIP call.
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The Toll
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AnonDOG
@kaballero.com
| Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn quote:
Irrespective that you live in Pennsyltucky and the local PD apparently has absolutely nothing better to do than eat and have time enough to check into no call too small ...
Marco I didn't see the gentleman insult you in any way. I don't see how you can justify where he lives and the quality of service he wishes to provide his community... That dog don't hunt son, even in the "Golden State".
quote:
....
The State Cops over there won't even arrest a raging drunk slugging his wife & kids if there isn't a PFA on file.
....
When I was a regular on these forums this sort of blatant insult for no apparent reason would have bought me a ban.
I guess there is no lack of arrogance in the "Golden State" | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
1 edit | Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn said by AnonDOG : quote:
Irrespective that you live in Pennsyltucky and the local PD apparently has absolutely nothing better to do than eat and have time enough to check into no call too small ...
Marco I didn't see the gentleman insult you in any way. I don't see how you can justify where he lives and the quality of service he wishes to provide his community... That dog don't hunt son, even in the "Golden State". This is an "A" to "B" discussion and you can "C" your unregistered ass out of it. Also, I am originally from the Commonwealth of Pennsyltucky, so I can say whatever I want about its hillbilly, backwards existence.
said by AnonDOG : quote:
....
The State Cops over there won't even arrest a raging drunk slugging his wife & kids if there isn't a PFA on file.
....
When I was a regular on these forums this sort of blatant insult for no apparent reason would have bought me a ban. I guess there is no lack of arrogance in the "Golden State" There is no "insult" there, it is a fact. Son.
If you actually knew what you were talking about/checked the facts before you spouted off with your $0.02, then you would have a modicum of credibility. But I guess there isn't a lack of ignorance in unregistered guests who call everyone "son," and otherwise chime in with opinions about topics that they know absolutely nothing about, but feel free to butt into nonetheless.
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The Toll
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Except the guy standing on my lawn Actually, I'm not in "Pennsyltucky". Unless 20 miles south of Billy Penn's hat in center city Philadelphia, counts as the sticks... We have 11,000 residents in 5 square miles of township, so it's hardly rural, just tranquil.
Classifying a whole state of people as a bunch of "backwards hillbillies" shows a certain measure of arrogance and prejudice on your part. Without even knowing what part of the state I live in, you assume I live in some 1 horse hick town. According to the 2000 census the median income for a household in my township was $84,661, and the median income for a family was $87,248. I would have to say if I'm living in a town of Pensyltucky hicks, we're all doing pretty well for being such, especially considering those numbers are almost 7 years old. Our low call volume more has it's roots in the fact that we are a mostly residential area (98%) and the bulk of our residents are decent, law abiding citizens. I'm sorry to hear that the law enforcement officials in the "golden state" "wont even arrest a raging drunk slugging his wife & kids if there isn't a PFA on file." In my jurisdiction, that guy would be on his way to prison, as we don't tolerate domestic violence (regardless of the aggressor, and quite often it's the female) here.
You talk about an "A to B discussion" and jump right to "J", as in sounding like a jerk. No reason to jump to the level of insulting fella, it's a computer discussion board, not your prom date.
I can't say I'm at all insulted by your post, I'm used to dealing with people who form opinions of me and my profession without all the facts. I pride myself in offering punctual, polite, and professional service to the people of the town I live/work in. Where I work has been my home for almost 30 years. We have excellent schools, a great community, and easy access to everything the Northeast has to offer. If anything, I'm disappointed. I've come to expect more from someone who's been a BBR member as long as you have....
Oh, BTW. 1 call tonight. 911 hang up. Accidental...
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
| | | | gogosgiannis
join:2006-11-27
50100
| said by major marco :said by N3OGH :said by NOCMan :So now you can nail them with theft of service and criminal trespass. Unless you find a cop and a victim with really good IT skills, you're probably just going to get simple trespassing. You aren't going to get any kind of "theft" or "trespassing" for a couple different reasons. First and foremost, unless you have a giant sign posted in a conspicuous place on the property that reads: "NO TRESPASSING." Secondly, most states don't have laws on the books making theft of a wifi signal a crime, and, lastly, do you really believe that you can pick up the phone, call local law enforcement and have them drop everything they're doing just to come running over to your house for the 90 seconds the stranger was allegedly "trespassing" on your lawn? What're you gonna say? There is a big, bad scary man on muh propty wid one o'dem cellular phones...he's scarin' me wid his phone and I's don't like 'im on muh propty! Ooooooh, scary! Urgent. That'll get the PD right straight to your house ASAP. Get real. Ain't gonna happen. thank... | |
| | lrtc
join:2004-06-05
Toronto
| If your router doesn't have encryption how do I know that you just didn't want to setup a free ap? I know most people are against this and I will get backlash. I’m waiting for if the front door is unlocked analogy does that mean you can go inside! | |
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operagost
join:1999-08-02
Phoenixville, PA | No need. Just turn on the lawn sprinkler. | |
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Kxpuc
join:2004-05-04
Houston, TX | blah lol my friend piggy back'd on wifi to make free call's when he was in China a few months ago instead of paying long distance charges so it has it's uses | |
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Yippz
join:2005-05-04
Atlanta, GA
1 edit | Re: blah Bottom line... Securing your wifi is now as easy as 1-2-3 as the routers have made it so darn simple.
If you're wireless is not secured, expect it to be used -- in fact people I know that leave their own router unsecured do it on purpose as they freeload wifi when they're on the road.
Give a penny, take a penny.  | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
 ·Comcast
| Re: blah said by Yippz :Bottom line... Securing your wifi is now as easy as 1-2-3 as the routers have made it so darn simple. Agreed. If you don't use it, you can't complain. Well, you CAN. But you'll be the idiot in the end. 
Myself, I have 3 layers of passwords to access my network. | |
| | | | Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY
| Re: blah Yes, but most people are just not informed enough though. I can see six networks right now in my building. Just one is using WPA. One is open and four are using WEP. Even the WPA is probably something stupid like "nyjets."
Granted, if someone is walking by with a phone they cannot casually stand outside and crack the WEP. But if someone in my building is too tight to shell out a few bucks for their own connection they basically have five free ones to choose from.
On a related note, I was just looking for a router for a friend (yes, an ill informed one) and it seemed like there were a number of products out there on the shelves that are still WEP only. And cheaper too, so probably getting snapped up. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: blah said by Gogo1 :Yes, but most people are just not informed enough though. When you open up the box, one of the first things you usually see is the CD. I know on the Linksys routers, they even put a sticker over the ports that tell you to run the CD before connecting anything. During the CD install, the wizard tells you how to encrypt your network. If you decide to skip that step, you can't say you were never informed.
Unless of course, you're like this guy:
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tmthskdh_o | |
| | | | | | Gogo1
join:2004-05-27
Brooklyn, NY | Re: blah True. Very true. People arent interested though. They want it right now and they cant be bothered to read sh!t... | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey | Just turn on the sprinkler system. I dont have a problem with a freeloader as long as they dont ruin my lawn. | |
| | | MrBentor
join:2003-02-18
Seattle, WA | My lawn is protected Many people in my state use the Smith and Wesson Insurance Company to protect their lawns. | |
| | | | xplicitmind
join:2006-02-15
Middletown, NY
| Re: My lawn is protected said by MrBentor :Many people in my state use the Smith and Wesson Insurance Company to protect their lawns. Haha, I love statements like that, gets a chuckle outta me all the time, even though it is a very secure system
Xplicit | |
| | | | | i_do_dew
join:2001-10-28
Rochester, NY
| Re: My lawn is protected Well you know how it works.
Smith and Wesson.... Always been a point and click interface. If the owner read the manual, is very shortly followed by a bang.
My question is what if he stands on the neighbors lawn and pirates your wireless? You can't complain about physical trespass. Its not your lawn. You also cant shoot him then. (at least you cant claim that he was a threat to you.)
Also, I think the laws for Citizen's Arrest are still on the books in most places. How would that play it out? (Where are the people from Texas or other Carry states on a discussion like this?)
Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
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PCs are like Christmas trees. Their prices are highly competitive, but they can bear loads of high-profit ornaments. --Var Business 20030408 | |
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n1zuk
sweating with the oldies
Premium
join:2001-10-24
South Burlington, VT
1 edit | WiFi phone makes it easy nm | |
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NetWatchMan
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-13
Alpharetta, GA
| International VOIP/WIFI Travelog - France/Italy Oct 2006 I really wanted to completely finish this before posting, but it's already been a month now and it's time to get this out there:
"October 19: Nice, France -
I get up at 08:00 and figure I'll hit the streets of Nice to do a little bit of access point recon while my wife catches a bit more shuteye. I'm two steps out the door and the WIP330 is picking up wireless access points (WAPs) galore...Wanadoo_034212, Livebox_23134, etc. ...
"
Full Story:
»www.mynetwatchman.com/kb/VOIP/wip330.htm
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Lawrence Baldwin
myNetWatchman
The Internet Neighborhood Watch | |
| | i_do_dew
join:2001-10-28
Rochester, NY
| Re: International VOIP/WIFI Travelog - France/Italy Oct 2006 I have some comments on your article.
First, you really need to READ what you have written, I suggest reading it aloud. Better yet have somone else read it aloud to you. It is rife with grammer errors that even Star Office would have caught.
Secondly, I hope your client was cool with your utilizing their outbound SIP trunking for US calls. I really hope they knew prior to your deciding to do this. It would make me uncomfortable to use a clients business resources for something other than the client in questions gain. I understand the time constraint, but I feel that this would still constitute mis-appropriation of client resources, and is I feel as a consultant, an ethical no-no.
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PCs are like Christmas trees. Their prices are highly competitive, but they can bear loads of high-profit ornaments. --Var Business 20030408 | |
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NetWatchMan
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-13
Alpharetta, GA
| Re: International VOIP/WIFI Travelog - France/Italy Oct 2006 quote:
Secondly, I hope your client was cool with your utilizing their outbound SIP trunking for US calls.
Absolutely...the system is a trial for a larger project, so they explicitly WANT me to use it as we are trying to eval. quality of Level3 VOIP.
One of the things that came out of this for me was recognizing the need for some kind of "open" access point network...some way for private endusers to band together the access points and then use some kind of P2P credit model to control who can access the network and how much bandwidth they can use for free.
Even one jokes that "Linksys" is the biggest ISP in the world...wouldn't it be great if all the fairly unused capacity of private access points could be leveraged into the mother of all global roaming WIFI networks with free access to those that contributed to that network and reasonable fees to those that just want to exploit it.
After all as a Cybercrime investigator I can't endorse even my own actions on this trip...
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Lawrence Baldwin
myNetWatchman
The Internet Neighborhood Watch | |
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| Re: International VOIP/WIFI Travelog - France/Italy Oct 2006 said by NetWatchMan : One of the things that came out of this for me was recognizing the need for some kind of "open" access point network...some way for private endusers to band together the access points and then use some kind of P2P credit model to control who can access the network and how much bandwidth they can use for free. This is being deployed on a national scale by provider www.free.fr
What they plan on doing is to update all of their set top boxes to broadcast a new open SSID, that redirects you to a login page.
Then, the WiFi phone that Free will sell will authenticate to those open APs, and identify with your current www.free.fr login and pwd. So as long as you're a subscriber, you can use the APs of anyone in the country, as long as they are open.
What I'm not too sure is if ALL the set top boxes will be opened for this new service, or only the ones of the person that subscribe to the WiFi phone service. I also hope that they log who uses which AP to call, just to be sure a guy using the WiFi phone for criminal purposes doesn't result in the police knocking on your door.
But in any case, I think it's a really good solution.
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"the two most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." (Harlan Ellison) | |
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LilYoda
Feline with squirel personality disorder
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Mountains
| All AP you saw in Nice are routers that are bundled with the DSL service (they bundle IP, VoIP, WiFi, HD IPTV, etc...)
They ALL come with at least WEP, and encryption is always enabled by default.
BTW, there is very little cable internet in France. Only in large cities. And I think that even with cable providers, it comes with a preconfigured router that may have encryption turned on.
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"the two most abundant things in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity." (Harlan Ellison) | |
| Awaking
join:2004-11-29
00000 | Secure youre wifi This is just another reason people sure secure their wifi! If you don't take the necessary steps, then don't go crying when someone is using your internet. | |
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Hybrid Phones Make Wi-Fi Freeloading Easier
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Even free WiFi cities have logon procedures