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More Upstream Speed, Please
Request goes unheeded by most ISPs

Though our users have been clamoring for upstream speeds for years, the Associated Press has apparently figured out that broadband is a two-way street. The surge in user created video has rekindled the mainstream interest in upstream bandwidth, which is frequently forgotten by ISP marketing executives. The piece notes that 100 million videos are viewed on YouTube each day, though only 65,000 videos are uploaded. ISP execs quoted in the piece argue that customers just aren't demanding upstream speeds.

Clearly our audience is a little niche, and ISPs are catering to the broader demographic -- who use their broadband connections simply to check the weather and catch the occasional movie trailer at the Quicktime website. ISPs probably won't start offering faster upstream speeds until Joe-average-consumer demands them. What can push ISPs to act?

The failed attempt to transfer family videos to others over a 384kbps pipe? Games that demand increased bandwidth? Video-conferencing? Teledildonics? Existing interactive applications and the "Web 2.0" revolution either aren't appealing to Joe Public, they aren't sucking down much bandwidth, or both.
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rob2006
join:2006-11-07
Austell, GA

rob2006

Member

weird

lol , just weird
rob2006

rob2006

Member

Re: weird

i need 1 gbit uplink like in japan
99664227 (banned)
Heavily MODerated
join:2002-11-21
USA

99664227 (banned)

Member

Re: weird

said by rob2006:

i need 1 gbit uplink like in japan
So move to Japan.
53059959 (banned)
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

53059959 (banned) to rob2006

Member

to rob2006
I tried that, but it may be 1gbps to japanese websites, but like 10mbps to american websites. stupid overhead

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: weird

said by 53059959:

I tried that, but it may be 1gbps to japanese websites, but like 10mbps to american websites. stupid overhead
Reminds me of stupid bbb(bredbandsbolaget.se) ftp sites, they get 100mbps in europe but only like 512kbps to america.
spanishbob
join:2004-11-30
spain

spanishbob

Member

Re: weird

huh?
matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT

matrix3D to 53059959

Member

to 53059959
Probably isn't overhead. The drop in speed is most likely a direct result of the vast difference in latency between a Japanese client going to a Japanese server vs. a Japanese client going to an American server. They'd probably get sub 10 ms ping times to the Japanese server but 100+ ms ping times to American servers.

Vamp
5c077
Premium Member
join:2003-01-28
MD

Vamp

Premium Member

Re: weird

said by matrix3D:

Probably isn't overhead. The drop in speed is most likely a direct result of the vast difference in latency between a Japanese client going to a Japanese server vs. a Japanese client going to an American server. They'd probably get sub 10 ms ping times to the Japanese server but 100+ ms ping times to American servers.
Well not really that, but their internal networks within the country are fast but their peers to other countries are slow. It's kind of like running an office building with 100s of computers, your network might be a gigabit but your companies connection is only megabits.

In other words, those gigabit speeds are only within the Intranet of their country/that provider.

PhoenixDown
FIOS is Awesome
Premium Member
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY

1 recommendation

PhoenixDown

Premium Member

Teledildonics

Is that what I am afraid it is?

tnroroc
Let's Rock
join:2001-04-25
New Jersey

1 recommendation

tnroroc

Member

Re: Teledildonics

It appears so »www.google.com/search?hl ··· e+Search

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

1 recommendation

FFH5 to PhoenixDown

Premium Member

to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown:
Teledildonics
Is that what I am afraid it is?
I thought that was a feature of the new Wii remote control when playing the new Nintendo porn game. Maybe that is why that Wii remote strap keeps breaking.
rob2006
join:2006-11-07
Austell, GA

rob2006

Member

Re: Teledildonics

lol
SinNombre
join:2004-09-16
Charlotte, NC

SinNombre to PhoenixDown

Member

to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown:

Is that what I am afraid it is?
Ah, yes, the orgasmatron!

How are we ever going to see the fulfillment of the dreams of our greatest creative cinematic minds if we don't invest in greater bandwidth availability!

Only a matter of time before we also come to the realization that chocolate cake is actually really good for you!


FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Uploaded videos of the grandkids may be the driving app

The application that may truly drive the need for more upstream bandwidth will be parents wanting to upload home videos of the grandkids so grandma & grandpa can watch them online instead of tapes or DVD's being mailed across the country.

ctgreybeard
Old dogs can learn new tricks
Premium Member
join:2001-11-13
Bethel, CT

ctgreybeard

Premium Member

Re: Uploaded videos of the grandkids may be the driving app

I'd like more upstream to support my daily VPN connection into work. As a full-time telecommuter I could always use more upstream but, even though I have a "business" connection, the upload is marginally OK.

Bill W
cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX

1 recommendation

cwh to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Tell me about it. My inlaws are buying me a wireless cam for xmas so they can see their grandkid.

Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI

Jwobot

Member

g

dont you need a good amount of upstream for VOIP?
gh4456
Premium Member
join:2004-04-07
Beverly Hills, CA

gh4456

Premium Member

Re: g

No,

Most VOIP uses compression which is pretty good. Most stay under 50kb/s, which is just a fraction of most users upload.

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

1 edit

roamer1

Member

Re: g

said by gh4456:

Most VOIP uses compression which is pretty good. Most stay under 50kb/s, which is just a fraction of most users upload.
Actually, most don't; most VoIP providers use G.711, which is standard "uncompressed" PCM and uses ~90 kb/s on an IP network. Some (VoicePulse, most Asterisk-friendly providers, etc.) offer compressed codecs as an option, but only a few (namely P8) use compressed codecs by default.

G.711 ~90 kb/s
G.726-32 ~55 kb/s
G.729a ~32 kb/s

-SC
bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON

bohn

Member

I'd just settle for no caps or speed throttling

I'll not even mention no newsgroups and no email just please no caps we can't afford paying all that money for going over 30 gigs combined download and upload a month.
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

1 recommendation

Rick5

Premium Member

The Time magazine quote of the century has to go to this

statement from the AP article.

"Speed has not been an issue for most of our customers, or we'd hear about them," said Mark Harrad, spokesman for Time Warner Cable"

Ummm..apparently he hasn't heard about the practically fatal demise of his sister company..AOL?

LOL!

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Re: The Time magazine quote of the century has to go to this

Not been an issue??? I see the new speed upgrades in the works for TW is something like 10000 down...384 up...pathetic.

RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

1 recommendation

RARPSL

Member

Re: The Time magazine quote of the century has to go to this

said by swintec:

Not been an issue??? I see the new speed upgrades in the works for TW is something like 10000 down...384 up...pathetic.
Even if you are just using for email, I think that 384 is too slow to be able to download at the full 10000 speed (the uplink side gets choked with the ACKs for the lines you are reading and thus throttles the receive).

anon99
@rr.com

anon99

Anon

wtf

"Speed has not been an issue for most of our customers, or we'd hear about them," said Mark Harrad, spokesman for Time Warner Cable.

insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

1 edit

insomniac84

Member

Nothing is stopping tem from offering a second tier

And I am not talking a tier with 33% more upload for double the price. I am talking about ten bucks more a month for double or triple the standard upload. Then they would be catering to all markets.
Indymike8
join:2004-12-06
Indianapolis, IN

Indymike8

Member

Upstream?

LOL

Most ISP's won't let you sent email that is larger than 10Meg. Some cap it at 1.5Meg. Why in the world would you need to send something bigger than that and therefore need the upload speed?

The larger ISP's just don't give a damn what their customers want; take what they give you and be glad you could get it.

I think of the aDSL options i know of and the fastest upload speed is 768K. 6Meg down.

sDSL? hmmmm

Cable considers itself entertainment and you're lucky to have email.

Bandwidth is driving the economy now; more, faster, NOW!

Online backup is trying to start-up, but can you realistically see trying to backup about 80 gigs of data with an upload speed of 256k??

Online video conferencing on top of your computers normal network load?

Yes, we here are biased on this subject. "Joe" user is starting to care about this as more and more of his media devices turn to digital (if not all by now). "Josephine" wants her data where she wants it and the ability to change her mind as she wants. Today it's here, tomorrow it's there, but I still want it accessible.

We need synchronus communication.

napilus
join:2006-03-26
Portland, OR

napilus

Member

Re: Upstream?

If you can get they offer 5 meg up
napilus

napilus to Indymike8

Member

to Indymike8
If you can get fios , they offer 5meg upload

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: Upstream?

5megs upload on fibre is just pathetic. all VZ is doing is protecting their lucrative business packages where they rape the biz customer
Indymike8
join:2004-12-06
Indianapolis, IN

Indymike8 to napilus

Member

to napilus
T'ain't offered here.

And i'm not in the sticks either.

Oh, btw, i am "too far" from the CO to get more than i have. Don't tell me to move, my dad built this house in 1964 and there is no earthly reason that this neighborhood doesn't have FIOS or better. For cryin' out loud, the CO is 1.7 miles from here, and that's following the lines!

I guess i could get a T3 for around 750/month, but i like to eat.
Sword7
join:2005-11-11
Montgomery Village, MD

Sword7

Member

More Upload Streasm, please. Thanks.

Hello folks,

Yes, I agreed with that press. More and more users are asking for more upload speed stream for their home FTP, web, e-mail, videochatting (VRS for deaf services), filesharing, etc.. I still have some problems with Comcast because upload stream are very extremely congested during almost every evenings.

That's why I am looking for better symmterical services least 1-2 mbps or above.

Thanks!
Tim

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Upload!

Why no upload? because upload can actually be used unlike the token downstream increases that go largely unused.

DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium Member
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA

DaneJasper

Premium Member

Physics

ADSL is asymetric. You get lots of downstream in ADSL but cannot do a lot of upstream. It's the spec, silly!

SDSL is symmetric, but typically caps out at 1.1Mbps up/down. Would you prefer 6.0Mbps/768kbps, or 1.1Mbps/1.1Mbps? The market prefers the former.

-Dane

roamer1
sticking it out at you
join:2001-03-24
Atlanta, GA

roamer1

Member

Re: Physics

said by DaneJasper:

ADSL is asymetric. You get lots of downstream in ADSL but cannot do a lot of upstream. It's the spec, silly!
Similar applies to cable -- besides the fact that modems have to contend for upstream channels, the upstream channels, which are at the very low end of the RF spectrum, tend to be filled with lots of noise, which leads to use of modulation methods that provide more error correction and lower throughput than those used for downstream. The same types of issues exist for most wireless technologies as well; cellular technologies like UMTS and EV-DO, DOCSIS over MMDS, etc. all tend to have significantly higher downstream than upstream.

There is no excuse for upstream capping on the likes of FiOS, especially when it is generally in an ISP's best interest to have upstream and downstream traffic roughly equal.

-SC

Vig
Thread-safe since 1997
Premium Member
join:2004-03-23
La Jolla, CA

Vig

Premium Member

chicken or the egg

Where is the killer app that drives upload demand going to come from? What company is going to devise an app that needs more upload speed than its user base actually has? That's not going to be a profitable route.

I guess the best we can hope for is that multimedia sharing sites attract enough users uploading large files that the users eventually gripe loudly enough to be heard. But I think it's more likely those users would simply abandon the upload-intensive apps because "the internet is slow".

It's going to be a real uphill battle to get that killer app that demands upload speed improvements into the hands of the general public to force upgrades. That's a tough strategy to execute.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: chicken or the egg

said by Vig:

Where is the killer app that drives upload demand going to come from?
Its called P2P. yanno, the thing that all the ISPs like to packetshape. oh ya and the RIAA, MPAA too. P2P has legit uses but pirates pretty much messed it up for the legit uses.
Video conf was nice too when i had OOL, but capping ruined that too.
FORGET more upstream, that horse is dead.

jgkolt
Premium Member
join:2004-02-21
Avon, OH

jgkolt

Premium Member

upspeed

users are not requesting upspeed increases? Yes they are. would like to go on record on saying that i do!!!

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Gaming

I think gaming could drive the adoption of higher upstream speeds. Look how it drives the hardware market.

To bad the bandwidth market doesn't move as fast as the hardware market.
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime
join:2001-08-27
Bakersfield, CA

kd6cae

Member

providing upstream shouldn't be a bad thing

The internet is after all a network, and it shouldn't matter which direction the data flows, we should be given decent bandwidth in both downstream and upstream directions. I've never understood why most every last ISP in North America gives us plenty of downstream bandwidth, yet they barely give us a drip of upstream. I realize the existing home internet connection technologies were designed back when you didn't do much with your connection, but even still existing technology, especially cable is capable of much more upstream than what is being offered. I for example have a 10/1 plan, I got it mainly for the 1mb upstream. why can't we have say a 1500/1500kbps cable package or 3000/3000 or some such thing for users wanting decent upload? And what's with provider's like Time Warner doubling their download but not increasing their upload at all? It's not like it can't be done. Heck I live just two blocks from the university of California at Riverside and they've got I believe an OC-192 internet connection! If I were using the internet from that line, it'd be the same internet I'm using from here. I've heard that Docsis 1.1 can do 38mbps downstream and 10mbps upstream, but if this is true, why is it that only optimum online is willing to show off even a portion of that upstream? The 10/1 speeds we're starting to see now were offered by cable vision 3 or 4 years ago! So to all the internet providers out there, we love our downstream, we have plenty of it, now stop being afraid to provide upload and let's see what the various technologies are capable of both downstream and upstream!
thekiefs
join:2005-11-14
Newbury Park, CA

thekiefs

Member

Re: providing upstream shouldn't be a bad thing

So your saying its not technical? Is this true? I totally agree, but if its not technically possible...we're talking a whole other burden to leap through before evening out the speeds. If these guys are skimping that much and its available.....well
AnonShawUser
join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB

AnonShawUser

Member

A suggestion..

Here's an idea.. Everyone who can, try setting up a personal fileserver on your home network, for the sole purpose of sharing your holiday videos and pictures with the rest of the family, both live and in storage.

And try to get as many other people to do the same thing.

Then let's see the providers say there's no need for an increase in caps or upstream. :P

•••
massysett
join:2006-01-04
Silver Spring, MD

massysett

Member

Verizon sees this

Verizon is marketing the faster upload speeds of Fios, pointing out that you can upload photos and send attachments more quickly. I'm happy with my Comcast download speed but would switch to Fios if it were available solely to get faster upload. As others start to do this, Comcast will take notice...

••••
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2

Premium Member

Person of the Year.

Time says we're the "person of the year"... because of what we put on the internet. You think that pretty much states that people are uploading? I believe that videos were acknowledged as one of the sources.

BUT... on the other side, a video taking 3 minutes to upload is still far better than the several hours or day (if ever) than we had before.

I personally can wait 3 minutes for a video especially when it's the computer which is doing the work, not me.

I am sure, in time, upload will increase. What I DO want, is more download as well.
haplo2112
join:2003-05-12
Charlton, MA

haplo2112

Member

And how exactly am I supposed to tell them?

Let see.

1. I Send mail to Charter telling them the network especially upload is too slow.
2. I send email to Charter telling them the network especially upload is too slow.
3. I complain on the Charter forums on Broadband reports
4. I complain on the phone when ever I call Charter for pretty much any reason.

I'm not really sure how to communicate to them that the network IS TOO DAMNED SLOW! UPLOAD SUCKS! FIX IT!
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