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RIAA Drops Case Against Long Island Mom
Renews legal assault on her children
by Karl Bode 08:58AM Thursday Dec 21 2006
Already $24,000 in debt before the trial even began, mother Patricia Santangelo, 43, was sued for file trading by the RIAA but decided to fight on principle. Her struggle quickly made her an Internet celebrity, and many individuals and groups decided to donate to her legal defense. The case didn't go particularly well for the RIAA, since all they had was an offending IP address; trying to prove individual guilt with no other supporting evidence has resulted in similar cases being dropped.

In this case, the RIAA soldiered on and began investigating Santangelo's children. The industry managed to get Santangelo's daughter and a neighbor to admit to Kazaa use under-oath and subsequently filed suit against two of her children. This week the RIAA dropped the suit against Santangelo herself, though in such a way that (unlike some similar cases) they won't be forced to pay Santangelo's court fees.

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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks

join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO

Who the heck...

Who the heck are these people?

Things like this just turn me off completely from the music industry.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ

Re: Who the heck...

What the heck...

Is Pop-Culture promoting anyways anymore?
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

Get them!

Counter-sue the RIAA now for false evidence!

PolarBear03
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03

Re: Get them!

Dude, she is flat broke! She couldn't sue and ant for stealing a crumb right now!

phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL

Thats ok...

That will get appealed. I know in the end, she won't have to pay. The RIAA will soon learn that more people will rather defend the average Joe, and pay for their legal bills, as opposed to paying for a legit copy of their crap.
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

1 recommendation

Re: Thats ok...

I really hope so. I wonder how many innocent people have paid the settlement extortion fee and signed the papers admitting that they are dirty, stinking pirates just to make the whole thing go away quickly. (As opposed to spending a lot of time, energy, and money defending their innocence.) Sure, they might be catching some legitimate pirates, but whatever happened to "Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"? Apparently, the RIAA lawyers have turned this into "Better that ten innocent persons are sued falsely than that one guilty file trader escape."

Kosh
We are all Kosh
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Z'ha'dum
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

Re: Thats ok...

I agree. The injustice system has been failing the average person for years.

The whole notion that a multi-million dollar conglomerate like the RIAA and I (or any other average working person) are in any way "equals" under the law is ridiculous. There is no "equality" in a civil case when the incomes of the plaintiff and defendant are at a 5000:1 ratio.

It's nothing but a ridiculous war of attrition at best, or outright extortion and racketeering at the worst.

This is exactly why I buy all of my RIAA-infested CDs USED. No reason to feed the beast. For everything else there is Magnatune, CDBaby and eMusic.
--
"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" --
Theodore Roosevelt

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: Thats ok...

said by Kosh:

This is exactly why I buy all of my RIAA-infested CDs USED. No reason to feed the beast. For everything else there is Magnatune, CDBaby and eMusic.
Pretty much the same here. It's a rare CD that I'll buy new. I've also recently discovered (2 years after the fact ) that the Barenaked Ladies went independent again and are selling their music (from both CDs and live shows) online as DRM free MP3s. I've already bought 4 songs from them and plan on buying more to support them (and because I like their music).
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
well one of the kids is over 18 so she can be legally sued but what will they do to the 16yr old? hes not 18 so they cant sue him and really get anything, only asset might be a crappy POS car with 200,000 miles on it he uses to get to high school.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

RadioDoc
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL
kudos:2
How do you appeal a dismissal?
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Thats ok...

said by RadioDoc:

How do you appeal a dismissal?
I think what they are trying to do is getting the case dismissed "with prejudice." Otherwise, the RIAA can bring the case back for any reason they want. Plus, if it is dismissed with prejudice, then the woman can sue for legal fees.

phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
said by RadioDoc:

How do you appeal a dismissal?
I didn't read every detail, but either way, counter sue.
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

How low can the RIAA sink

So first they sue her having only an IP address as evidence. (Could easily have been a mistype, an open router, or something else.) Then, when they realize they have no case, they start questioning the kids and their friends until someone admits to using Kazaa. (Of course, that's got to be true then, right? I mean, it's not like they've bullied witnesses into lying before. Right?) Then, knowing that they're going to lose the case anyway, they drop it (avoiding paying the woman's legal fees) and go after the kids directly.

Yeah, these guys aren't sleazy at all.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Re: How low can the RIAA sink

How long in till they get someones cable box ip and they have no computer systems.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: How low can the RIAA sink

said by Joe12345678:

How long in till they get someones cable box ip and they have no computer systems.
It's already happened several times. Here's one of them:

»www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/a···G1.shtml

They also sued a woman who only owns a Mac for sharing music on Kazaa. The only problem is that Macs don't run Kazaa. Details, details.

Kilroy
Premium,MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

2 recommendations

said by Jason Levine:

Then, knowing that they're going to lose the case anyway, they drop it (avoiding paying the woman's legal fees) and go after the kids directly.
The RIAA is smart, don't forget that. The first case they lose will be the beginning of the end. So, they drop any case where they may lose so they maintain their winning record. Since they are the ones starting the litigation it is completely under their control making this a very legal extortion racket. I'd love to see the RIAA brought up on RICO (tell me the RIAA and MPAA don't fit the CO) charges.
--
How hard does DRM have to bite before business abandon it?

mrherzog

join:2001-05-06
Calgary, AB

One day......

Maybe, just maybe.....the RIAA will be forced to play by the rules and get a Judge approved court order based on "evidence" before proceeding......it's just a thought I know...but one can hope.
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL

1 recommendation

is the RIAA asking for a PR nightmare?

Their litigation queue is brimming with people who will gladly pay the settle charges without a fight, why spend time on this one. Absolutely nothing good can come from this tact. Even if they win, they lose.

While it might be too late, the RIAA needs to drop this case and avoid the PR pummeling they're taking for suing children.

Kickrox
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Brooklyn, NY

Re: is the RIAA asking for a PR nightmare?

Asking... they got it a long time ago.

I mean wrong is wrong but they (RIAA) really need to sit down and re-think their strategy.

Don't ask me what that strategy should be because heck if I know.

ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
Actually, I hope they keep this case up and continue to take a beating PR wise. Then maybe people in this country will finally wake up and see how some of these large corporations really do business.
--
FWD#: 223611

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
Possibly because they're worried that if they back down anytime someone stands up to fight them, they won't be able to win any more cases. They are kind of like the bully in the schoolyard who beats kids up and takes their lunch money. If one person stands up to the bully, he gets beaten up. If another one stands up, he gets beaten up too. But the bully can't beat up everyone, so he relies on sheer fear to keep everyone else in line. Break that fear (say, by someone standing up to the bully and not getting pounded), and the bully suddenly doesn't hold any power over the school kids anymore.

GoAheadAndFlam

@verizon.net

Re: is the RIAA asking for a PR nightmare?

said by Jason Levine:

They are kind of like the bully in the schoolyard who beats kids up and takes their lunch money.
So in this case the kids wanted the lunch that the bully had but they couldn't afford it, or maybe only wanted a couple of bites and not the whole lunch. Maybe it was a crappy lunch and not worth as much money as the bully wanted to sell it for. So they just stole it. Those poor kids.. what else were they to do? It's pretty sad when the one who gets stolen from gets beat up because people don't have a sense of right or wrong anymore. (yes.. i know the RIAA is wrong because they are charging too much... so are the oil companies.. lets fill up for free.)

My rant is done... Flame if you want.. I only stop here every couple of months Maybe I'll look this thread up again if I even remember about it.

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Real Victim

Let's say after they stole from that bully where does that bully get his lunch money? Mom and dad (aka artists) so when bully gets home he steals money from his mom's purse and although getting caught more than twice continues to do so.

a pack of wolves attacking another wolf but that wolf goes home and robs from his own pack.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA

Re: is the RIAA asking for a PR nightmare?

said by GoAheadAndFlam :

said by Jason Levine:

They are kind of like the bully in the schoolyard who beats kids up and takes their lunch money.
So in this case the kids wanted the lunch that the bully had but they couldn't afford it, or maybe only wanted a couple of bites and not the whole lunch.
Not quite. The bully is claiming that they stole his lunch and therefore he demands all of the kid's lunch money (possibly his coat too or anything else interesting the kid might have). The bully really doesn't have much in the way of proof, though, but he still beats up those kids for "stealing my lunch." Even if the kid in question was out of school on that day or goes to a completely different school. (The bully goes from playground to playground.)

The RIAA is entering into many of these lawsuits with nothing more than a screen shot or two and an IP address. Using those, they have sued a someone who didn't own a computer and someone who owned a Mac (completely incapable of running the Kazaa software they claimed she had run). They don't care about any factual merits of their cases. They only care about two things:

1. Getting large numbers of people to settle as quickly as possible.

2. Avoiding any bad (for them) precedents in court.

To this end, being sued by the RIAA will quickly get you a call from their Settlement Center. The Settlement Center will use high pressure tactics to get you to settle. (Including threats of bankrupting you and ruining your life.) Even innocent people are liable to settle simply because it's the cheaper and easier path.

If you do fight it in court, the RIAA will use their high priced lawyers to try to steer the trial in their favor. See the recent case where they wanted to get the defendant's hard drive so they could examine it for pirated music. A third party examination wasn't enough for them. They wanted sole access to it as they claimed that was the only way to truly find the pirated material that they "knew" was there. (Luckily, that one didn't fly with the judge.)

If the case turns against them, they will quickly drop it to avoid any precedent being set. Often, they will drop it without prejudice which means that they don't have to pay legal fees to the defendant and they can reopen the case at any time.
madrhino

join:2004-07-03

They let her off to easy

They should have her and her kids whacked in public as an example.
--
Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS
JBear

join:2005-02-24
canada

ya ok

Wow.
The only problem is that people (sheep) are oblivious to what's going on until it happens to them.

These guys are low, but so far nothing bad has happened to them so why are they going to change tactics? If anything they'll just get dirtier and more vicious.

brooklynman4

join:2004-09-07
Brewster, NY

Re: ya ok

Ahh i knew it u go mom lol.

Michieru_

@dadeschools.net

!

The RIAA the RIAA the RIAA is on fire, we don't need no water let the motha f**** burn. Burn motha @*#)@# BURN!

Irun Man
Spartan up
Premium
join:2002-10-18
Walden, NY

There's no Dutchess County on LI

»poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbc···009/NEWS

Wappingers Falls, NY is NOT on Long Island.
--
Life is a journey; death is a given.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: There's no Dutchess County on LI

Dutchess county is right over the line from danbury, CT. id hope its not on long island or Ridgefield would be under water(not really a bad thing imo)
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Lawyer's fees?

Hmm... According to how I read it (see below) they WILL have to pay the fees?

"The Court granted the motion and let the RIAA drop its case.

The Court went on to hold that the defendant, Ms. Foster, is the "prevailing party" under the Copyright Act and is therefore eligible for an award of attorneys fees.

The Court then indicated that it would decide the attorneys fees award question upon receipt of a motion for attorneys fees."

Sounds like the fees will be paid by the RIAA to me.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Classic example of Oklahoma....

/sigh. Oklahoma, my home state, is one of those states with notoriously lax consumer protection laws, etc. Heavily favors business over the little guy, business over workers, employees, etc etc etc

Doesn't surprise me that the RIAA with most of it's clients out in California would pursue a case HERE against an individual in New York. (You'd think California or New York would be logical jurisdiction right?) Not so for the RIAA.

Talk about Court-shopping. Way to go Oklahoma.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)

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