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Powerline Broadband in Syracuse
$28.95 for symmetrical 5Mbps
Several Syracuse, New York suburbs (Geddes, Fairmount and parts of Camillus) will get BPL (broadband over powerline) connectivity thanks to a deal between National Grid and New Visions Powerline Communications Inc. According to the Post-Standard, the service could see expansion if "all goes well in those areas." The company advertises $28.95 per month for symmetrical broadband speeds "up to" 5Mbps, with phone service bundled in for an additional $56.90 a month. While we're constantly harping on the fact that the BPL industry proclaims each year is the "year of BPL" despite no significant deployment, at least the price is nice in this instance.
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Irun Man
Premium Member
join:2002-10-18
Millsboro, DE

Irun Man

Premium Member

5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!!
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by Irun Man:

For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!!
IF it works.

How long before the up to 5Mbps translates into something much lower.

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23

Fox McCloud

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

not entirely sure....all that I know is, is that I have spoken with a guy in Cincinnati about his PBL, and he liked the speeds he was getting.

Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*.

just our luck, we'll probably never see this either.
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned)

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by Fox McCloud:

Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*.

just our luck, we'll probably never see this either.
And this is a surprise how?

Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23

Fox McCloud

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

it is of no surprise; it's just further proof that nearly all corporations ultimately do not care about the customer at all; all their customers are for is money-trees.
BPL 200 Mbps
join:2006-11-05
Toms River, NJ

BPL 200 Mbps

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? yes upload and download speed

This means less lag time while video-phone calling your love ones, while playing multi-player games online or sending and receiving data across the web.... imho
BPL 200 Mbps

BPL 200 Mbps

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? yes upload and download speed

Here`s the video news coverage of this article that came out today !!!

»www.9wsyr.com/mediacente ··· d=167410
BPL 200 Mbps

BPL 200 Mbps

Member

Re: FirstEnergy begins Broadband over Power Line -BPL- trial wit

FirstEnergy begins Broadband over Power Line -BPL- trial with Ambient Corporation !!!

IOU FirstEnergy of Akron signed with Ambient to do a BPL trial passing 500 homes in Ohio, Ambient CEO John Joyce told BPLTODAY.com ...

Source: »xrl.us/spnp
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT to Fox McCloud

Member

to Fox McCloud
said by Fox McCloud:

Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*.
Only technically clueless people (e.g., FCC Commissioners) argue that BPL is applicable to rural environments. It has the same feasility issues in low-density areas as any other broadband technology, if not more so.

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez to Fox McCloud

Member

to Fox McCloud
said by Fox McCloud:

not entirely sure....all that I know is, is that I have spoken with a guy in Cincinnati about his PBL, and he liked the speeds he was getting.

Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*.

just our luck, we'll probably never see this either.
I am going to assume you have never been to the Syracuse area based on those comments. Just to clarify, even Syracuse city proper is more of a suburban area than a "real" city. The downtown area doesnt really have any residential areas, and most people live in houses as opposed to buildings. While Syracuse is certainly not rural, the people living in the suburbs of this "suburb city" for the most part have land and room to spare.

n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

n2jtx

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

When they get it to Skaneateles, Borodino, Spafford and Homer, I'll believe they have gone rural.

NoMan
@adelphia.net

NoMan

Anon

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

Don't hold your breath...installing those every-2000-feet repeaters will make such an installation cost-prohibitive unless they can convince everyone in those towns to sign on.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn to moonpuppy

Member

to moonpuppy
With National Grid ? I doubt you will see a slow down. They have Carrier class fiber every where. I have worked for them and let me tell you their fiber is definitely top notch, they have a very competent network designer that I have worked closely with.

And It's not even mapped since it's their private fiber, they lease to verizon tmobile and cingular just to name a few, as well as other carriers and Isps.
DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD

DufiefData

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

The national power grid is full of carrier-class fiber??? Wow, that is news indeed.
jtel
join:2005-06-28
Bristol, RI

jtel

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

Every company that has right of way has fiber in place, although it may not be theirs AMTRAK must have a ton of it.
BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA

BosstonesOwn to DufiefData

Member

to DufiefData
said by DufiefData:

The national power grid is full of carrier-class fiber??? Wow, that is news indeed.
Ah dude not the whole power grid is owned by them. They have carrier class fiber to every substation , stop trying to be sarcastic when you can't do it well.
Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA

Devistater to moonpuppy

Member

to moonpuppy
Until a few ppl start using the 5mb up to run servers of some type. Then they will drop the up down like every other company.

rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA

rf_engineer

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by Devistater:

Until a few ppl start using the 5mb up to run servers of some type. Then they will drop the up down like every other company.
Especially when you consider the neighborhood "backbone" is probably only 20 to 50 Mbs. A couple peer-to-peer file sharers will eat up the backbone bandwidth real quick.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88 to moonpuppy

Member

to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy:

said by Irun Man:

For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!!
IF it works.

How long before the up to 5Mbps translates into something much lower.
Even then for the price its super.

Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium Member
join:2001-12-16
PRK

Mactron to Irun Man

Premium Member

to Irun Man
said by Irun Man:

For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!!
When my Kw is Legally on the air when your home... well good luck with your "BOO YAH!!!"

Ha Ha Ha !!!

firephoto
Truth and reality matters
Premium Member
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

firephoto

Premium Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by Mactron:

When my Kw is Legally on the air when your home... well good luck with your "BOO YAH!!!"

Ha Ha Ha !!!
Legal would mean you need the Kw as the minimum to carry on your radio communication AND that you weren't intentionally causing interference.

RayW
Premium Member
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT

RayW

Premium Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by firephoto:

Legal would mean you need the Kw as the minimum to carry on your radio communication AND that you weren't intentionally causing interference.
As long as he is NOT broadcasting junk, but trying to contact someone where 1 KW could be justified, then it is not intentional, even if he is doing it to mess up BPL. Remember, BPL is still part 15 and has to accept interference even if the FCC rewrote regulations to allow BPL to pollute the airwaves if they make an 'attempt' to notch the interference.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT to Mactron

Member

to Mactron
Most BPL technologies these days use adaptive multicarrier modulation, and will just ignore the frequencies you're transmitting on. According the the ARRL, Homeplug-based BPL (like Cinncinati's) don't even use the HAM bands.

rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA

rf_engineer

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by PDXPLT:

Most BPL technologies these days use adaptive multicarrier modulation, and will just ignore the frequencies you're transmitting on. According the the ARRL, Homeplug-based BPL (like Cinncinati's) don't even use the HAM bands.
They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier.

I know of only one system that has hardware filters on the front end to reject ham band frequencies. The rest are just software filters on the output of the units to provide FCC-mandated notching.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by rf_engineer:

They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier.
In other words, it's easy to design a bad implementation; no argument here.

I believe ARRL has done some testing at their facility, and found that operation was possible, at least for some devices, near their transmitting tower. So the blanket assertion that all BPL would be rendered impossible by the presence of a full power HAM transmitter does not seem to be the case.

rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA

rf_engineer

Member

Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL??

said by PDXPLT:

said by rf_engineer:

They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier.
In other words, it's easy to design a bad implementation; no argument here.

I believe ARRL has done some testing at their facility, and found that operation was possible, at least for some devices, near their transmitting tower. So the blanket assertion that all BPL would be rendered impossible by the presence of a full power HAM transmitter does not seem to be the case.
True, though the system in operation at ARRL is the only vendor that has the hardware filters that I'm aware of. I doubt others are going to implement hardware filters as I don't think any vendors have even committed to making ham band (software filter) notches turned on by default. Anecdotal evidence has shown instances where as little as 5 watts can disrupt some systems. However, I do agree that a blank assertion isn't correct. The system at ARRL operates in the vicinity of several kilowatt transmitters.
W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT

W1RFI to PDXPLT

Member

to PDXPLT
I have seen a wide range of immunity in BPL equipment we have tested. The Motorola implementation operated with nearby 1000-watt transmitters on multiple bands.

ARRL hasn't looked at the immunity of other HomePlug systems. Motorola uses additional filtering to improve its emissions, but immunity improvements come along for the ride.

In a few systems tested, nearby transmitters with power as low as 5 watts took the system down. In one system I tested, it took it down hard, and the BPL repeaters had to auto-reboot and reconnect themselves.

But we took that testing one step farther. First, most of the immunity done to date was done with continuous carriers. So in that system, we took a look at different combinations, and found the following:

With in-band testing, using the same spectrum as the BPL system (even if transmitting in the notches), 5 watts of carrier took it down. The system had to autoboot.

Transmitting outside its used spectrum, however, showed immunity to 175 watts or so.

We also transmitted with single-sideband voice and on/off keyed CW signals. In those cases, though power >5 watts slowed it down, the system did not hang up. At 1500 watts of voice or OOK CW, the system slowed but didn't hang up.

The bottom line is that although there were some immunity issues, when tested using multiple modes and in-band vs out-of-band signals, the result was not devastating. A 5-watt CB signal would have taken it down hard. But a 50-watt low-band VHF signal would not, if they were not using the same spectrum. A 5 watt Amateur digital signal would cause it problems, but a 1500 watt voice single sideband signal would cause only latency and speed problems.

The latter could be quite significant, as applications such as live streaming video or voice-over-internet-protocol would probably suffer from intermittency.

I am not identifying the manufacturer involved because we had a verbal non-disclosure agreement with them, and because I know that they took these results and have already made improvements to their product. I want to re-test the product, but it would not be useful for ARRL to publish data on a product that is almost certainly going to be better.

Still, the results with "real" vs just carrier signals is an interesting and useful additional data point.

Ed Hare
ARRL Lab
225 Main St
Newington, CT 06111
Tel: 860-594-0318
Email: w1rfi@arrl.org
moonpuppy (banned)
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

moonpuppy (banned) to rf_engineer

Member

to rf_engineer
Does anyone have any idea which equipment this trail will be using?

wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY

wifi4milez to Irun Man

Member

to Irun Man
WOW, that is an awesome price. If I still lived there I would certainly buy it.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Once again BPL pops up

BPL is like a stinkhorn mushroom it keeps popping up in places and causes a stink.
tthnow
join:2006-06-07
Oakland, CA

tthnow

Member

Re: Once again BPL pops up

that look like my.....errr....

Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26

Fatal Vector

Member

Re: Once again BPL pops up



Gee! $57 for phone service! Jump right on it!

sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ

1 recommendation

sporkme to tthnow

MVM

to tthnow
said by tthnow:

that look like my.....errr....
See a urologist immediately!

XBL2009
------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL

XBL2009

Member

The phone service and BPL is $56.90

quote:
New Visions advertises a price of $28.95 per month for high-speed Internet service (up to 5 megabits per second, upstream and downstream). If customers combine Internet with phone service, the monthly bill is $56.90 a month.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

BPL

I'm not crazy about this but I could learn to like 5mbps UPLOAD for $28

morecompetition
@shawcable.net

morecompetition

Anon

They'll still bitch

BPL could be North American wide, offer 100/100 lines for good prices and people will still bitch about this tech.

Im curious as to what the latency times are.

PolarBear03
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium Member
join:2005-01-03

PolarBear03

Premium Member

If only I could get it

I'd pay $100/mo for a 5mbps symmetrical connection. I love my fixed wireless (I can run Vonage over it!), but at 512k symmetrical for $40/mo, it's no steal.

asdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net

asdfdfdfdf

Anon

It looks like $56 total for bundle, not additional

I'd jump on an opportunity like this. Very impressed with the pricing.

••••••
bmaasjr320
join:2006-03-14
Vancouver, WA

bmaasjr320

Member

My question about BPL is?

My question about BPL is?

At what point in the local power grid, does it go from fiber to wire. Would it start at local neighborhood electrical substation site. Say where 115 Kv power is stepped down to the feeder line level.

Also what type of carrier wave. In the electrical power system is being used. And what type of impact does it have MF and HF bands. This is where AM radio and HAM radio is found.

•••

jgkolt
Premium Member
join:2004-02-21
Avon, OH

jgkolt

Premium Member

5mbps upload

If they can offer that upload i think they will make a very good inroad on the internet service market. They are offering what everyone is asking, listening to the customers, and catching my attention. Way to go

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

(topic offline) BPL for the unserved!

Moderator Action
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.

stated reason was: spam

alldaymonopoly
@optonline.net

alldaymonopoly

Anon

i am paying $49.95/mo for 1 Mbps CABLE upload !

thanks for the choice with BPL coming slowly but stringly !!!

•••