  TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL | Cisco's iPhone
Was Cisco's iPhone a working product or something they were working w/ Apple at a prior time? | |
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 |  IanR
join:2001-03-22 Madison, NJ
| Hypocrisy Apple sues anyone who uses a supposedly Apple owned word. Like going after little old Ladies with a small business which uses. for example, the word "POD".
Cisco has owned the name iphone for half a dozen years, or so. Then while still in discussion with Cisco Apple makes the formal announcement of their new product using the name iPhone w/o any agreement from Cisco.
Apple locked horns with tiny Creative over patents and had to back down and PAY $100mm to settle out of court.
Apple Execs award themselves favorable backdated Options, at a cost to Sharehlders and sometimes w/o a Board Meeting for approval.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
We are getting a clear case of Apple's hypocrisy and arrogance.
Appple is a superbly innovative company. Even if their "iphone" is similar to other products already announced (LG etc). They design and package functionality superbly and market brilliantly. They are lead by one of the best visionaries in the electronics and entertainment industry. But, IMHO, they must drop the arrogance and hypocrisy b4 they get slammed. If they admit some "fault" I am sure that everyone would be extremely relieved and happy. If they continue down their current path it leads down one slippery slope IMHO. | |
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 |  |  matrix3D
join:2006-09-27 Deep River, CT | Re: Hypocrisy Steve Jobs brings the arrogance with him. | |
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 |  |   djtim21 It's all good Premium join:2003-12-22 Buffalo Grove, IL clubs:
| The reason I believe that Apple went public before setting a deal with Cisco, they wanted to see what it was worth first.
I think they will go back at Cisco and say - "Look how much free publicity you just got from us, now drop the fee a little, or we'll drag it on for a while."
In the mean time, Apple will still distribute the iPhone, and Cisco will still cry.
Either way, Apple will pay for this some way. Weather it's a little or a lot has to be determined. -- "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke | |
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 |  |  |   verolom
join:2002-03-23 Eatontown, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Hypocrisy Except that by bringing the lawsuit Cisco is not going after publicity, they are doing it to protect their investment in a product named iPhone. The lawsuit was not the initial path chosen by Cisco to resolve the conflict, it was Apple who decided to pull out of negotiations behind closed doors and make this a public matter.
Cisco does not need publicity of this sort. | |
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 taar
join:2000-11-21 | Its all about who was first......... Bottom line, Cisco had the name first for a communications device. Apple needs to PLAY nice or PAY UP! | |
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 Warez_Zealot Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19 japan
| How can they trade mark such a word? That's essentially like trademarking internet phone... or phone with an i in front of it.. Isn't there some law against trademarking common words?
Cisco should have this trademark reviewed than rejected... -- The meek shall inherit the earth but don't forget the poor are the ones who inherit the debt. | |
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join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY
·Packet8
| Re: How can they trade mark such a word? said by brandon :said by Warez_Zealot :That's essentially like trademarking internet phone... or phone with an i in front of it.. Isn't there some law against trademarking common words? How the heck is iPhone a common word? They're not trying to trademark the letter "i" nor the word "phone." "iPhone" IS a trademark, however. It's kinda like how the word "American" can't be trademarked, and the word "Idol" can't be trademarked, but you can sure believe the words "American Idol" are trademarked. Linksys had a working telephone that has been officially launched into the market, called an iPhone, and had the trademark for the name since 2000. There is no reason why Apple should have any rights to the trademark unless Cisco grants it to them. If Apple hasn't been granted the rights to iPhone, then they can't start marketing it as such, which is what they did here. I'm curious about your take on the trademarked name of "windows"... --
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 |  |  |   brandon Some truth included in this post. Premium join:2003-03-31 Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
·CableOne
·Packet8
| Re: How can they trade mark such a word? said by kamm :said by brandon :said by Warez_Zealot :That's essentially like trademarking internet phone... or phone with an i in front of it.. Isn't there some law against trademarking common words? How the heck is iPhone a common word? They're not trying to trademark the letter "i" nor the word "phone." "iPhone" IS a trademark, however. It's kinda like how the word "American" can't be trademarked, and the word "Idol" can't be trademarked, but you can sure believe the words "American Idol" are trademarked. Linksys had a working telephone that has been officially launched into the market, called an iPhone, and had the trademark for the name since 2000. There is no reason why Apple should have any rights to the trademark unless Cisco grants it to them. If Apple hasn't been granted the rights to iPhone, then they can't start marketing it as such, which is what they did here. I'm curious about your take on the trademarked name of "windows"... I would venture to say that if Microsoft were actually selling windows (as in those things with glass in them) then they wouldn't be allowed the trademark. As it stands with Windows being completely different from the standard use of the word, it is allowed.
My opinions are often worthless however!  | |
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 |  |  |  |   Goober
join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL | Re: How can they trade mark such a word? It took Microsoft many, many years before Windows gained secondary meaning enough to be registrable. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: | Re: How can they trade mark such a word? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the trademarked term is "Microsoft Windows", not just "Windows" | |
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join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast
| Re: How can they trade mark such a word? It's just Windows. It took them almost 12 years before they were given a registration number for the OS.
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Word Mark WINDOWS Goods and Services IC 009. US 038. G & S: computer programs and manuals sold as a unit; namely, graphical operating environment programs for microcomputers. FIRST USE: 19831018. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19831018 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Design Search Code Serial Number 74090419 Filing Date August 20, 1990 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Published for Opposition June 21, 1994 Registration Number 1872264 Registration Date January 10, 1995 Owner (REGISTRANT) Microsoft Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE One Microsoft Way Redmond WASHINGTON 980526399 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL-2(F) Affidavit Text SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20050407. Renewal 1ST RENEWAL 20050407 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: | Re: How can they trade mark such a word? Thanks for the correction. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |   cdru Go Colts Premium,MVM join:2003-05-14 Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Even then, it's not 100% clear on the trademarking of Windows. Back a few years a company called Linspire came out with a Linux distribution that ran some Windows applications called Lindows. Microsoft sued because the trademarks were sufficiently similar that it could cause confusion to consumers. While the case was ultimately settled out of court before all appeals were exhausted, it was quite a ways down the path of Microsoft losing the case because Microsoft had used the term "windows" in describing the GUI prior to Windows (the product) from ever being released. Apple and Xerox had also implemented the idea and used the terminology prior to Microsoft telemarketing it as well. It would be similar to me trademarking the name Phones and then suing any company that used the derivative of that.
Trademarks are used to product product name recognition in the market place. Multiple companies can own the same or similar trademark as long as the use of the trademark is in different areas and would not be commonly confused by the lay person. My company has a trade mark of "Do it Best" (the hardware store). Nike has the trade mark "Just Do It". They are fairly similar, but it's not likely someone would confuse a hardware store and a sports clothing company. -- Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
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join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL
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edit: January 11th, @02:13PM
| Re: How can they trade mark such a word? said by cdru :Even then, it's not 100% clear on the trademarking of Windows. Back a few years a company called Linspire came out with a Linux distribution that ran some Windows applications called Lindows. Microsoft sued because the trademarks were sufficiently similar that it could cause confusion to consumers. While the case was ultimately settled out of court before all appeals were exhausted, it was quite a ways down the path of Microsoft losing the case because Microsoft had used the term "windows" in describing the GUI prior to Windows (the product) from ever being released. Apple and Xerox had also implemented the idea and used the terminology prior to Microsoft telemarketing it as well. It would be similar to me trademarking the name Phones and then suing any company that used the derivative of that. Trademarks are used to product product name recognition in the market place. Multiple companies can own the same or similar trademark as long as the use of the trademark is in different areas and would not be commonly confused by the lay person. My company has a trade mark of "Do it Best" (the hardware store). Nike has the trade mark "Just Do It". They are fairly similar, but it's not likely someone would confuse a hardware store and a sports clothing company. Microsoft's registration for Windows is very clear. What was not clear was that Lindows was sufficiently similar to cause confusion. Microsoft losing the case would have had zero impact on it Windows mark relating to the OS.
Establishing secondary meaning trumps prior usage as a generic term. So, I can't agree with your comparison of the trademark Phones. I think you're missing the point.
This is a good primer that you can read to learn more about trademarks. »www.registeringatrademark.com/pr···rk.shtml | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   nklb Premium join:2000-11-17 Ypsilanti, MI clubs: edit: January 11th, @04:58PM
| "Linspire" is the new name that is the end result of the lawsuit; the original name that provoked the suit was "Lindows"
Edit: Oops, my eyes skipped right over where you said this, sorry | |
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join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL | Common words can serve as trademarks as well. You just have to establish a secondary meaning for the word. It took MS almost a dozen years to do this for their operating system. | |
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 |   Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: | Cisco had secured the patent for the name 10 years ago. Source | |
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join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL
·WOW Internet and C..
·Comcast
| Re: How can they trade mark such a word? said by Maxo :Cisco had secured the patent trademark registration for the name 10 years ago. Source | |
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 |  |   sporkme drop the crantini and move it, sister Premium,MVM join:2000-07-01 Budd Lake, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by Maxo :Cisco had secured the patent for the name 10 years ago. Source Actually a company called InfoGear that Cisco bought had secured the trademark. | |
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 |   GoodyearMark Premium join:2001-05-02 Goodyear, AZ
·Cox HSI
| said by Warez_Zealot :That's essentially like trademarking internet phone... or phone with an i in front of it.. Isn't there some law against trademarking common words? Cisco should have this trademark reviewed than rejected... iPhone is not a common word you will not find it in a dictionary. -- Got a V3 or a V3i or an L7? Want to get the most out of them? Check out my sites »hacktheV3.com and »hacktheV3i.com and »hacktheL7.com
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 SD6
join:2005-03-26
| Apple's defense: VoIP is different? Thanks for the research, Karl. You can also look at the text of Cisco's trademark - it's for a networking device, no mention of cellular
some more public information:
What Cisco/Linksys said yesterday on lawsuit: "Today's iPhone is not tomorrow's iPhone. The potential for convergence of the home phone, cell phone, work phone and PC is limitless, which is why it is so important for us to protect our brand,"
Apple's response on CNBC (paraphrasing): Their trademark is for IPhone as in IP(internet protocol)hone and they sell a VoIP phone. However, our product is a cell phone and is called "i"Phone to be similar to our "i"Pod.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. | |
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 |   N3OGH Will it all be Obama's fault now? Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs | Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? Redmond Lawyers, start your copiers!
This one will generate a mountain of paperwork.
Or PDF's..... | |
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 |  |   cableties Premium join:2005-01-27 Levittown, PA | Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? Or .doc documents... Or proprietary .MSxml files...

(Should be called the "iCost+" as it ain't cheap...) | |
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 |  |  |  gateguy Premium join:2001-02-12 Reisterstown, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? said by cableties :(Should be called the "iCost+" as it ain't cheap...) Cars are not cheap either, but I see plenty of them being driven around. -- Have fun, enjoy. | |
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 |  |  |  |   cableties Premium join:2005-01-27 Levittown, PA
| Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? Um, what does a car analogy have to do with the high cost of legal fees? (as in it's going to cost Apple now for it's premature dance)
OMG!!! You..you aren't one of those Apple Zealots, are you???  | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  gateguy Premium join:2001-02-12 Reisterstown, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? said by cableties :( Should be called the "iCost+" as it ain't cheap...) said by cableties :Um, what does a car analogy have to do with the high cost of legal fees? (as in it's going to cost Apple now for it's premature dance) Interestingly enough, I thought your iCost reference was in relation to the iPhone itself, not the legal fees. The wording used was not clear enough to make that distinction.
What Should be called the "icost+"?
Not a Mac Zealot as much as a frustrated Windows Developer. -- Without data, it is just an opinion | |
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 |  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Isn't this like Ford making a new sport/utility truck and calling it a Camaro? | |
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 |  |   raw War Eagle Premium join:2001-01-17 Pasadena, MD clubs:
| Re: Apple's defense: VoIP is different? said by lesopp :Isn't this like Ford making a new sport/utility truck and calling it a Camaro? Yeah, and claiming it's different because it's designed to work on interstate highways only. -- [BBR]raw America's Army BBR Enemy Territory clan founder | |
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 |   Dezbend Premium,MVM join:2001-04-20
| If I were to post "I am going out this afternoon to buy me an iPhone" and by iPhone you assume I am talking about the Apple product then Cisco has a case. What Apple needs to show (and I don't know how they will do it) if they want to fight this (and not just pay up which is what they will do) is that the word iPhone has become so widespread in general usage that the trademark is meaningless... sort of like the word "klenex" may be applied in general to a generic brand. -- If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. | |
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 |  |  See 7 replies to this post |
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 |   Cheese Premium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL clubs:
| said by SD6 :Thanks for the research, Karl. You can also look at the text of Cisco's trademark - it's for a networking device, no mention of cellular some more public information: What Cisco/Linksys said yesterday on lawsuit: "Today's iPhone is not tomorrow's iPhone. The potential for convergence of the home phone, cell phone, work phone and PC is limitless, which is why it is so important for us to protect our brand," Apple's response on CNBC (paraphrasing): Their trademark is for IPhone as in IP(internet protocol)hone and they sell a VoIP phone. However, our product is a cell phone and is called "i"Phone to be similar to our "i"Pod. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Then it would be IPPhone....Since IP would leave just hone and Internet Protocol Hone would make no sense  | |
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 |  emptywig Huh? What? Premium join:2002-08-05 Pasadena, TX
| Where do they find these attorneys?
The idea that Apple could just usurp the trademark because they wanted the iPhone "to be similar to our iPod" is one of the most preposterous assertions I have ever heard. There is no way that they can use someone else's trademark just to make the name of your products similar. Absolute rubbish.
wig -- Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox | |
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 RayW Premium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT clubs:
·XMission
| Ther are so many ways to look at this I think the comment "Lawyers start your copiers" sums it up. Technically Cisco looks more correct, historically Apple looks more correct. Could be 'fun' unless cooler, wiser heads prevail (right, and I have a bridge for sale, made of gold, in San Francisco) -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 |   N3OGH Will it all be Obama's fault now? Premium join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Ther are so many ways to look at this said by RayW :...(right, and I have a bridge for sale, made of gold, in San Francisco).. OOOH OOOH I'LL TAKE ONE, I'LL TAKE ONE!! -- Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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 |  Shark_615
join:2006-01-17 Pickering, ON
| What?
Historically Cisco OWNS the trademark. Historically Cisco has used said trademark in conjunction with a Phone. Historically Apple did not use iPhone before it was trademarked by Cisco.
There is no technicalities. Cisco has a product called iPhone and has owned the trademark for almost 6 years or more. | |
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 |  |  RayW Premium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT clubs: | Re: Ther are so many ways to look at this Could be, they probably should have said iPod was too close back then. A lawyers pot o'gold -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 |  |  |  Shark_615
join:2006-01-17 Pickering, ON | Re: Ther are so many ways to look at this True but different industries so that claim would be invalid. | |
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 cwilliams194
join:2006-12-04 Hamilton, ON
·Acanac Inc.
·Cogeco Cable
| play nice Apple is just quoting semantics here, "our product isn't the IPhone it's the iPhone" what's the freakin difference.
it's still the word phone with an "i" infront of if, Apple in lower case Cisco in upper case.
Oh btw I'm starting a new computer company I'm calling it aPPle, but it's ok because the the 2 upper case "p"s stand for "Personal PC" ya I don't think that would go over so well. -- You want a piece of me? Well come and get it!-Prof. Farnsworth | |
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 |  See 8 replies to this post |
|
  AppleSucksAgain
@comcast.net
from: BillRoland 
| You can bet Apple will pay for this blunder As if to demonstrate how clueless Apple is... Not only have they raised the price they will now pay for the rights to use the expression "iPhone", - if they even get too, they also forgot to get the phone approved by the FCC so they can't sell it in the U.S. anyway. In the PC industry this is known as the blind leading the clueless. Apple fanboys will still be lined up to pay thru their arse for such foolishness, but Cisco will make Apple pay heavily for their indiscretions. | |
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 |  See 8 replies to this post |
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  BillRoland Premium join:2001-01-21 Ocala, FL clubs:
·Cox HSI
| And Cisco is right "It wasn't about the money" I believe that. At this point Cisco is probably mad Apple went ahead gung-ho calling it the iPhone when they were still negotiating, that usually has a tendency to piss the other side off, but it shouldn't be a surprise, its just Apple's true character coming out to play. I see a number of reasons the iPhone could potentially be a non-starter, this is just another one, as Cisco could slow this down for a while and I think Apple is too pig-headed to admit they stole somebody else's trademark and change the name. Silly, but you would expect nothing less from Steve Jobs. -- "Don't steal. The government hates competition." | |
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 |  gateguy Premium join:2001-02-12 Reisterstown, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: And Cisco is right said by BillRoland :...Silly, but you would expect nothing less from Steve Jobs. Interesting thought. Do you mean to imply that Steve Jobs has stolen so much, that it is expected behavior for him?
Links to back up your point of view, please. -- Have fun, enjoy. | |
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 |  |   TScheisskopf World News Trust
join:2005-02-13 Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: And Cisco is right said by gateguy :said by BillRoland :...Silly, but you would expect nothing less from Steve Jobs. Interesting thought. Do you mean to imply that Steve Jobs has stolen so much, that it is expected behavior for him? Links to back up your point of view, please. Mr. Jobs, while being partly(but greatly) responsible for one of the most creative and dynamic companies ever, does have a little problem with arrogance. One need only return to the days of the sad and nasty CHRP debacle to get a good sense of the man and his ways.
This latest incident is blatant and egregious, especially when taken in light of Apple's defenses of its own trademarks, IP, and product information and plans. And no, I am hardly some frothing Cisco or Linksys enthusiast. That would not unlike being a toaster oven fanboy.
It's just kinda diverting to see a company that goes after small websites and startup companies with trade agreements and technology licenses getting hoist on their own petard.
Not unlike the ubiquitous monkey and bowling ball scenario. | |
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  viperpa33s Why Me? Premium join:2002-12-20 Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| Don't understand I don't understand why in some cases not all that a company needs to explain why they are suing. Is Cisco expecting people to feel sorry for them and get public approval? I don't think a company needs public approval, they can sue whenever they feel like.
Cisco's lawyers say it's not about money but it is. A licensing agreement will be signed and Apple will pay compensation to Cisco. Apple hasn't paid the money so that's what the stink is all about. | |
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 |  See 7 replies to this post |
|
 dcaponegro5
join:2005-07-22 New Hope, PA
| I think this says a lot The lawyers claim the agreement wasn't hung up on money or royalties, but a desire for "an open approach" and platform interoperability. One has to wonder why cisco wants platform interoperability. They make network gear that transports open protocols. I don't see where there is a problem. I think there is more to this than we are hearing. I am sure it will all shake out over time. | |
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 |  disc
join:2005-12-31 Raleigh, NC
| Re: I think this says a lot said by dcaponegro5 :The lawyers claim the agreement wasn't hung up on money or royalties, but a desire for "an open approach" and platform interoperability. One has to wonder why cisco wants platform interoperability. They make network gear that transports open protocols. I don't see where there is a problem. I think there is more to this than we are hearing. I am sure it will all shake out over time. Read one of the followup posts on cisco's blog:
By insisting on "interoperability" of the products as your price, Cisco was attempting to use an asset it didn't create (i.e. the name "iPhone") as a means by which to leverage access not only Apple's design and technological advantages but also its obvious marketing savvy.
In short, this is not about "openness" and "transparency" -- it's about promoting your company's products by plugging into Apple's innovation and "buzz".
Again, I have no problem with Cisco calling Apple out on its power play. You have the right to protect your property. But please don't patronize us by trying to sell it as a noble blow for "openness".
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 |  |  degauss1
join:2001-07-02 Hillsboro, OR | Re: I think this says a lot Even easier - they wanted the 'i' part of the iPhone to be their VoIP stuff. | |
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  inteller Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08 Tulsa, OK | of course if Cisco loses They can just hardwire their routers to send all traffic with Apple MAC addresses to various porn sites. -- "WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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 |   dadkins Merry Whatever Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: of course if Cisco loses said by inteller :They can just hardwire their routers to send all traffic with Apple MAC addresses to various porn sites. ROFLMAO!  -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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  iphonex
@pacbell.net | hrmm... cisco's name make sense iphone as in internet/wifi phone ... wonders what i in iphone stands for.... trying to use same name scheme as ipod ... probably the same reason they changed from apple computers to apple inc... | |
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