Blu-Ray (Almost) Cracked - High-def DRM proving quite fallible

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Blu-Ray (Almost) Cracked
High-def DRM proving quite fallible
(old news - 09:30AM Tuesday Jan 23 2007)
tags: Video · Fileswapping · content

There's a lot of effort being made and money being spent to prevent high-definition content from being traded via broadband; and some of it has resulted in less efficient hardware and software (Vista, for instance). Unfortunately for the film industry, high-def content protection is proving about as reliable as past incarnations (in other words, not very). The plaintext exploit used to partially crack the HD-DVD format a few weeks back is now being applied to Blu-Ray with some success. Of course, there's a second content protection layer on Blu-Ray that hasn't been cracked, but there's no movies on the market right now that are protected with BD+. It's expected both formats will be fully cracked before long.

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Forums » Blu-Ray (Almost) Cracked


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dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Yep! But people are forgetting, unless you do some wild compression, no one is going to want to upload(several times?) 19~50GB per BD! Hell! I dread even thinking about DOWNLOADING those kind of file sizes! Uploading? Not likely! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:35:34 ·

TigerNutz Laissez les bons temps rouler Premium join:2000-12-23 Little Rock, AR	Re: Yep! yeah? I'm sure the same thing was said about a 10mb file in 1997......
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:39:47 ·

SRFireside join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX	Re: Yep! Actually no. Most dialup services can grab that size of a file in less than an hour (give or take). Now a 100+MB file size however...
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:49:20 ·

Blasterbator Sent By Grocery Clerks join:2001-02-20 Jackson, MS	Call me in 9 years then
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:58:14 ·

stomp357 join:2003-04-13 Lake Charles, LA ·Suddenlink	said by TigerNutz : yeah? I'm sure the same thing was said about a 10mb file in 1997...... In 97', I was still on dialup, and 10MB was not a big deal.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 16:10:09 ·

Corehhi join:2002-01-28 Bluffton, SC	In 97 I think I could download at abot 3.9 KB's a second with my state of the art 56K modem.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 17:26:25 ·

Nightshade sic semper tyrannis Premium join:2002-05-26 Salem, OR	Re: Yep! I had a download rate of about 4.2KBps on average on my US Robotics 56k v.92 external modem back in the day. Still have it. -- True Happiness Must Come From Within
	permalink · 2007-01-24 02:10:03 ·

dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
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said by Corehhi

:

In 97 I think I could download at abot 3.9 KB's a second with my state of the art 56K modem.

And sadly around here that's all most people know because we have the world's cheapest cable company and no live RTs to provide DSL. I'm the last one this far north up the road to have DSL.
--
"Whatsoever you do to the least of my people, that you do onto me!" Check out my internet radio station: »www.thebomb102.com

permalink · 2007-01-24 07:18:12 · Print ·

bbrlogue Learning New Things Daily Premium join:2003-12-07 Alexandria, VA	In '97, I had cable modem. What 10Mb file?
	permalink · 2007-01-24 14:41:00 ·

Goober join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL ·WOW Internet and C.. ·Comcast	said by dadkins : But people are forgetting, unless you do some wild compression, no one is going to want to upload(several times?) 19~50GB per BD! Hell! I dread even thinking about DOWNLOADING those kind of file sizes! Uploading? Not likely! No kidding! People should just pony up the few bucks for the DVDs.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:53:58 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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Hercules, CA

·Comcast

Re: Yep!

said by Goober

said by dadkins

:

But people are forgetting, unless you do some wild compression, no one is going to want to upload(several times?) 19~50GB per BD!

Hell! I dread even thinking about DOWNLOADING those kind of file sizes! Uploading? Not likely!

No kidding! People should just pony up the few bucks for the DVDs.

$24.99 - $29.99 each is acceptable for a BD movie.
Hell! Netlix has some BD titles.

Blanks sure need to come down in price though.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-01-23 10:08:34 · Print ·

Goober join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL ·WOW Internet and C.. ·Comcast	Re: Yep! said by dadkins : Blanks sure need to come down in price though. True. But, media prices seem to fall fairly quickly nowadays. I can remember not too long ago when you could hardly even find DL media and even if you could, it was $5-7-10 per disk.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 10:17:18 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA	Re: Yep! BD SL blanks are $17.99 ea. BD RE(RW) are as high as $79(DL @ 50GB)! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 10:27:36 ·

Goober join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL ·WOW Internet and C.. ·Comcast	Re: Yep! said by dadkins : BD SL blanks are $17.99 ea. BD RE(RW) are as high as $79(DL @ 50GB)! Holy crap. I knew about the SL prices. But DL at $79?!?!
	permalink · 2007-01-23 10:42:24 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: Yep! The BD RE(rewritables) in DL are a wallet killer! But you can cram alot of data on a single disc! The "Single Write" DLs aren't that expensive... but they aint cheap either. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 10:56:08 ·

dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ	said by Goober : said by dadkins : BD SL blanks are $17.99 ea. BD RE(RW) are as high as $79(DL @ 50GB)! Holy crap. I knew about the SL prices. But DL at $79?!?! you could buy a >50gb hard drive for 79 bucks! -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:00:00 · Print ·

Camelot One
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Sarasota, FL
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·VoicePulse

Re: Yep!

said by dvd536

said by Goober

said by dadkins

:

BD SL blanks are $17.99 ea.
BD RE(RW) are as high as $79(DL @ 50GB)!

Holy crap. I knew about the SL prices. But DL at $79?!?!

you could buy a >50gb hard drive for 79 bucks!

I've been buying 80Gb SATA 3.0Gbp/s drives for $39! And I guarantee the read/write time is better

--
AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler

permalink · 2007-01-23 11:37:45 · Print ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA	Re: Yep! No doubt! But, how many of those HDDs can you fit into a CD/DVD wallet? -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:41:05 ·

slimpickinz join:2003-11-29 Conyers, GA	Please tell us... WHERE? are you buying 80Gb SATA 3.0Gbp/s drives for $39??
	permalink · 2007-01-23 18:06:46 ·

techjoe Premium join:2004-02-20 Schererville, IN ·Sprint Mobile Broa..	Re: Please tell us... said by slimpickinz : WHERE? are you buying 80Gb SATA 3.0Gbp/s drives for $39?? www.newegg.com ... $43.99 though, but close. »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···22145127 from the top of the list (sorted low to high price) for example. And no, I don't work for newegg -- I just buy way too much gear when I browse there... -- www.clanc.cc
	permalink · 2007-01-23 18:19:10 · Print ·

Camelot One
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·VoicePulse

Re: Please tell us...

said by techjoe

said by slimpickinz

:

WHERE? are you buying 80Gb SATA 3.0Gbp/s drives for $39??

www.newegg.com ... $43.99 though, but close. »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···22145127 from the top of the list (sorted low to high price) for example.

And no, I don't work for newegg -- I just buy way too much gear when I browse there...

I buy in bulk so I get them a little cheaper, but NewEgg is my fallback.
--
AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler

permalink · 2007-01-23 18:43:15 · Print ·

Anonymous_ Anonymous Premium join:2004-06-21 127.0.0.1 clubs: ·RoadRunner Cable ·Time Warner Cable ·Time Warner VOIP	160GB for 10$ more »www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a···22145088 -- Your Thread Is worth less With out Pictures
	permalink · 2007-01-24 01:30:54 ·

fireflier Coffee. . .Need Coffee Premium join:2001-05-25 Limbo	Not just blanks. I'd like to be able to easily afford a BD Burner! 25GB available for backing up my machine? Yeah, I'll take that! Somebody wake me up when NEC has a BD burner for $40. . .
	permalink · 2007-01-23 14:02:05 ·

fairusehddvd @uslec.net from: emig5m thumbs down from: emig5m	The reason people are doing this is not to pirate but to circumvent the hdcp compliancy requirements, for the ability to stream their own purchased content via their current VGA equipment. The industries are trying to force consumers to replace perfectly good theater setups with hdmi capable ones to plug the analog hole...
	permalink · 2007-01-23 14:58:55 ·

Goober join:2000-12-17 Naperville, IL ·WOW Internet and C.. ·Comcast	Re: Yep! I don't have a problem with that. I absolutely believe in fair use and I don't agree with any arguments to the contrary, nothwithstanding the DMCA. But, I think those that deny that this information will not be used for piracy are kidding themselves.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 15:19:38 ·

PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA

·CableOne

Re: Yep!

Of course this may be used for piracy, but it is STILL not fair that if you buy the BD/HDDVD disc, you can't watch it on whatever monitor/TV you want. I can plug my VCR and DVD player into anything with a composite video input, so why not BD/HDDVD?

From »www.slyck.com/story1390.html:

Thomas Mennecke:

What motivated you to help circumvent the content protection scheme associated with HD DVD and Blu-ray?

muslix64:

With the HD-DVD, I wasn't able to play my movie on my non-HDCP HD monitor. Not being able to play a movie that I have paid for, because some executive in Hollywood decided I cannot, made me mad...

The guy BOUGHT an HDDVD, and it wouldn't play simply because his HDTV wasn't a new model.

(Note: I don't ACTUALLY own a VCR

)
--
"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.

permalink · 2007-01-28 11:22:28 · Print ·

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

said by Goober

said by dadkins

No kidding! People should just pony up the few bucks for the DVDs.

It wouldn't be a problem if the service were better.

I doubt the rips of these without the encryption will require HDCP. I doubt they will only work in specific, MPAA hand picked software. I doubt the resolution on this version will dumb itself down to DVD quality if I'm not using the newest connector that tells the TV to only let me watch the movie twice before I have to renew my license. I am 100% aware we aren't at this point yet, but I threw it in to exaggerate the potential downfalls of a world in which the TV and the source actually communicate with each other. If the DVD player can already think enough to say "this TV is not whatever, dumb down resolution to DVD quality", then a scary path has already been taken.

DVDs aren't like this. You buy the original, you get everything online plus the warm fuzzy feeling of owning the original.

Here, you buy it.. and you get _less_ than what joe FIOS downloaded off of usenet. It's ridiculous. It used to be a joke that you received better service through piracy, but the time has come where this actually stands true.
--
The Problem With Music.

Our Rationale

Time to rewrite the DMCA.

permalink · 2007-01-23 20:54:53 · Print ·

xrobertcmx
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I have absolutly no problem at all purchasing DVDs. I own two shelves two rows deep. My problem is that the slightly under 1 year old 26in LCD television I have, the Nvidia 7600GT, and 19in LCD monitor all might not be compatible with the current content protection systems. And because of this they might well downgrade the quality of the playback.

So I see no reason to even consider buying either the equipment or the movies until my next major tv upgrade, say in 5 to 10 years.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time.

permalink · 2007-01-23 21:08:47 · Print ·

Goober

join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

·WOW Internet and C..

·Comcast

Re: Yep!

said by xrobertcmx

:

I have absolutly no problem at all purchasing DVDs. I own two shelves two rows deep. My problem is that the slightly under 1 year old 26in LCD television I have, the Nvidia 7600GT, and 19in LCD monitor all might not be compatible with the current content protection systems. And because of this they might well downgrade the quality of the playback.

So I see no reason to even consider buying either the equipment or the movies until my next major tv upgrade, say in 5 to 10 years.

I have no problems with fair use. My disagreement is with those that upload content so that the stuff can be downloaded by people for the sole purpose of not having to pay for what they are consuming.

permalink · 2007-01-24 14:54:21 · Print ·

xrobertcmx
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Sterling, VA
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Re: Yep!

That is a problem these days, sadly though it is sometimes easier to steal then to buy a legal copy. The copy protection schemes are now getting into the realm of the insane. My girlfriend has some rap CD at home that will only allow itself to be ripped using WMP. She put it into her laptop and it started trying to install files. Forget that. At the same time I could easily download them via P2P or buy them from allofmp3.com if I wanted, and no copy protection. (Itunes managed to convert it on a MAC, who knows why)
The large media companies need to realize that they can't keep punishing the consumers if they want to fight piracy.
--
Retaking our country one election at a time.

permalink · 2007-01-24 15:06:27 · Print ·

dr3yec join:2002-12-19 00000	x264 is that compression. If you ask me it looks dam good to.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 09:59:45 ·

See 24 replies to this post

c0de

join:2004-10-14
Richmond, VA

I would think it would take (over bittorrent) just as much time to download a BD as it would to have one delivered from Netflix.

Also, you can't burn a HD/BD & the cost/trouble of having a PC setup with 1080P output to a 1080p TV is gonna be little high right now.

Seems like too much trouble right now, espically if i can't pop the disc into a BD/HD player after I download it. Not to mention the cost of the players.

I'll stick with my good ole DVD till the format wars are settled.

Hell I don't even bother downloading regular DVDs right now. But maybe if I give up my job/life I would have time to do all that.

permalink · 2007-01-23 10:28:36 · Print ·

See 8 replies to this post

Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs:	My guess is that most of the ripped movies would be turned into an .avi and compressed to a below DVD quality picture.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:14:46 ·

AmnChode Premium join:2001-03-27 San Antonio, TX	well, with that line of thinking, why would have they even bothered encrypting it? If there is a will there is a way, hackers and crackers prove it time and time again....
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:54:45 ·

Maxo Your tax dollars at work. Premium,VIP join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL clubs: ·Embarq	Re: Yep! said by AmnChode : well, with that line of thinking, why would have they even bothered encrypting it? If there is a will there is a way, hackers and crackers prove it time and time again.... There really is no point. It's a cat and mouse game that the mouse always loses at.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:56:21 ·

Camelot One
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·VoicePulse

said by AmnChode

:

well, with that line of thinking, why would have they even bothered encrypting it? If there is a will there is a way, hackers and crackers prove it time and time again....

Because they have no interest in stopping the die hards, just in making sure the "average" user is prevented from doing this sort of thing.
--
AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler

permalink · 2007-01-23 11:57:08 · Print ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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1 edit

said by AmnChode

:

well, with that line of thinking, why would have they even bothered encrypting it? If there is a will there is a way, hackers and crackers prove it time and time again....

One reason, so you and I(I already did BTW) will have to buy HW that will decode it.

It's a vicious circle. I wanted true HD. I paid for it!
These Sony products *ARE* Full HD 1080p.
That's part of Sony's new advertising!

»www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSH···&nonav=1

New tech is not cheap, but I saved and gots me some!

--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-01-23 12:15:56 · Print ·

BloodRoses Gods lend wings to tainted hearts Premium join:2003-03-17 clubs:	25-50GB isn't that bad... what's wrong with uploading a Blue-Ray of last Christmas to grandma in London? -- Cheers, Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com
	permalink · 2007-01-23 12:27:07 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: Yep! said by BloodRoses : 25-50GB isn't that bad... what's wrong with uploading a Blue-Ray of last Christmas to grandma in London? Burning it and mailing it would be faster? Plus, it wouldn't be maxing out your connection for hours(days?). -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 12:29:48 ·

BloodRoses Gods lend wings to tainted hearts Premium join:2003-03-17 clubs: ·Cox HSI ·Verizon Online DSL	Re: Yep! But that's not an issue with the format, that's an issue with your connection not meeting current day requirements. Blame your ISP, not the format. -- Cheers, Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com
	permalink · 2007-01-23 13:19:09 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

·Comcast

Re: Yep!

...and I suppose you have a connection that will allow you to upload a file this size within a reasonable time?

We *ALL* need to talk to *OUR* ISPs, huh?

I have no need or want to upload something of this size to anyone.
I'll use a SD video for uploading, or even still burn that SD video and mail it.

You just want to argue, huh?
Tell me, do you even have one of these babies?
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-01-23 13:50:23 ·

BloodRoses Gods lend wings to tainted hearts Premium join:2003-03-17 clubs: ·Cox HSI ·Verizon Online DSL	Re: Yep! I don't, and I don't think anyone in America does. That wasn't the point. You don't have a want or need because you simply can't. I will use 1080p, and no I don't have a Blu-Ray player/recorder as of yet. What difference does that make in this discussion, exactly? -- Cheers, Stephanie - www.GlitterFaerie.com
	permalink · 2007-01-23 14:07:28 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA	Re: Yep! Uhm, the Title of this news article maybe? If you do not have a BD drive/player/burner, what difference does any of this matter to you? LMAO! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 17:36:28 ·

snipper_cr

join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL
clubs:

Yeah... and even with former Permaboost, 22 gigs is a heafty download

Also burning as it has been talked about is pretty darn expensive... sometimes even the cost of going out and buying it yourself! And if you have a misburn... thats a really REALLY expensive coaster.

Finally, HDDVDs and BRDs are not all that expensive. Ive seen them from 17 bucks to 29 bucks which really isnt bad. Plus, they last for ever! I know CDs start to fall apart after 10-15 years, not sure about DVDs but I am sure BRDs have the same problem.
--
Serenity Day - June 23rd 2006. You Can't Stop the Signal

permalink · 2007-01-23 13:01:40 · Print ·

rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

·Charter Pipeline

But if the movie is *only* released in Blue Ray or HD DVD, folks may still want to *ahem* "trade" it by recoding it at lower quality. That would probably reduce the size of the upload/download.

Frankly I'd be happy if I could still do what I do with DVDs. Before I go on a business trip, I usually rent a few videos, copy them to my laptop's HD, return the videos and watch them at my leisure over the next several days. When I'm done watching them, I delete them. I'm sure someone has a problem with this but I'm just avoiding the frigging outrageous hotel On Demand rental charges and making the flight pass more quickly.

I know with the Internet rental services I could take the DVD with no worry of late fees but that's one more thing to pack/lose/break. It's really nice to just have it on the hard drive. And maybe I it's my power settings but if I run the DVD drive, I don't get as much battery life.

permalink · 2007-01-23 15:43:58 · Print ·

eco Premium join:2001-11-28 Wilmington, DE	I've already seen 720p HD movies on torrent sites that are the same size as a DVD-R, about 4.4gigs, compressed using H.264. The quality of them is excellent.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 16:47:55 ·

BIGHUSKER

join:2002-01-20
Minneapolis, MN

said by dadkins

When HD-DVD burners and Bluray burners become commonplace, then you'll see the good old "disc-to-disc" copying that is pretty common with DVDs these days. However, that's probably still a couple years off...

permalink · 2007-01-23 20:32:51 · Print ·

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
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Staten Island, NY

said by dadkins

I can download 13 GB/hour. I wouldn't mind waiting an hour or two for a nice copy of a movie. I can upload 4 gigs an hour.

I wouldn't mind BUYING it either, but then again, sony has made sure it's 100% unuseable and unplayable unless I stick to their restrictions, so that's not an acceptable choice either.
--
The Problem With Music.

Our Rationale

Time to rewrite the DMCA.

permalink · 2007-01-23 20:37:53 · Print ·

Sunburn join:2000-10-05 Denver, CO	Re: Yep! Exactly, I download around 15 GB/hour and it will probably be 100 in 2 years. Just a joke and a bunch of hype for something that is not even true 1080 as advertised. Should have made it into true life vision @ 700GB per disk....that might have lasted a few years.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 22:57:32 ·

thender2 Glamour Profession Premium join:2004-05-16 Staten Island, NY	Re: Yep! Real film can do over 4000 lines of resolution. 1080p sucks compared to that. Now that would be a standard.
	permalink · 2007-01-24 00:34:16 ·

PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03 Riverside, WA ·CableOne	Re: Yep! said by thender2 : Real film can do over 4000 lines of resolution. 1080p sucks compared to that. Now that would be a standard. That would be an ORGA- ahem, a really nice picture! -- "I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.
	permalink · 2007-01-28 12:10:53 · Print ·

PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03 Riverside, WA ·CableOne	said by thender2 : I can download 13 GB/hour... I can upload 4 gigs an hour. Alright, quit taunting me with your FiOS, you prick Thasp! -- "I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.
	permalink · 2007-01-28 12:08:37 · Print ·

Toadman
How do you like these Apples

join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH

Cyberlink license revoked

Read the article. I can't believe that an organization can revoke the license for cyberlink and actually cause cyberlink to "flip a switch" to disable the blue ray dvd playing software on users machines. It would majorly suck if you paid for it, and then later on, you couldn't use it. I would be asking for a major refund!

Yet another reason why I am glad I have waited for the HD DVD / Blue Ray war to complete.

permalink · 2007-01-23 10:23:36 ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
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1 edit

Re: Cyberlink license revoked

I'll live.

permalink · 2007-01-23 10:31:13 · Print ·

c0de join:2004-10-14 Richmond, VA	Re: Cyberlink license revoked PS love your desktop background, i have it too, just not currently applied...
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:43:03 ·

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

2 edits

This is what you get for buying software.

You get screwed.

You can't use powerdvd to play certain DVDs on vista, but VLC works.

Unless there is no feasable alternative, legally Free software > other software by far.

Do you have to connect to the internet to constantly validate your machine and software in order for it to work? I can't think of any other way for cyberlink to do something like this.

It's disgusting that there even is a war in the first place. Imagine if you will that there were no HDCP, DRM, and encryption. How much faster would technology move along? How much cheaper would it be? How much quicker would people adopt it?

It's sad to see paranoia consistently beating common sense.

permalink · 2007-01-23 20:45:40 · Print ·

PolarBear
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·CableOne

Re: This is what you get for buying software.

said by thender2

:

Imagine if you will that there were no HDCP, DRM, and encryption. How much faster would technology move along? How much cheaper would it be? How much quicker would people adopt it?

And how much LESS piracy there would be, as people wouldn't have nearly as much of a reason to do it?
--
"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.

permalink · 2007-01-28 12:15:48 · Print ·

Harddrive
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT

all of you are missing the point.

wake up!

its not about the BR/HD DVDs being traded. the folks that are cracking the protection on Blu-Ray DVDs and HD-DVDs are doing it to prove that the MPAA protection isn't worth a damn. who cares if the movies can be traded or not. its about the little guy beating the big bad evil corporate empire.
its the same reason most hackers do the thing that they do. to prove that it can be done.
--
Fortunately I keep my feathers numbered, for just such an emergency.-Foghorn Leghorn

permalink · 2007-01-23 10:28:21 · Print ·

See 7 replies to this post

ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA	Size is a better at stopping piracy Size, not DRM will be more discouraging. All DRM is going to do is frustrate legitimate users. Pirates will always get around DRM eventually. Personally I think size of HD content (at 20+GB) will be more of a factor, slowing distribution, than DRM would be.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:26:14 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy Sure as f*** is going to stop my ass from even thinking of sharing them!! So Far they have all played fine even though they are encrypted with DRM/AACS. Decoder is working. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:36:46 ·

wrenchmonkey Premium join:2002-05-04 Sacramento, CA	It was just a matter of time..... Dual-format is here: »www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/07/ces20···_player/
	permalink · 2007-01-23 11:37:11 ·

guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

·epix

Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy

said by ColorBASIC

:

Size, not DRM will be more discouraging. All DRM is going to do is frustrate legitimate users. Pirates will always get around DRM eventually. Personally I think size of HD content (at 20+GB) will be more of a factor, slowing distribution, than DRM would be.

Its possible in the manner of downloading/uploading movies of such size. An easier way is to simply trade dvd movie lists, trade X BD 20+gig for Y BD 20+gig movie, burn, test, then snail mail the swap very simple, very easy. In doing so more bandwidth is at one's disposal.

In the grand scheme of things, DRM will get cracked, DVD's will get traded, the MPAA still gets its azz handed to it. Now it will cost the MPAA more $$$ to lose on what was once cheaper for P2P'ers to swap before.
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.

permalink · 2007-01-23 23:20:50 · Print ·

ColorBASIC 8-bit Fun Premium join:2006-12-29 Corona, CA	Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy That's true...you could just do it with Netflix or Blockbuster Online which rent Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs (if DRM was defeated).
	permalink · 2007-01-24 09:33:48 ·

PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03
Riverside, WA

·CableOne

said by ColorBASIC

:

Size, not DRM will be more discouraging.

Size was what discouraged people from downloading music back in 1999 when most of the country had dial-up. But internet connections became faster and more widespread, and now I can download a CD's worth of music in about 3 minutes instead of three hours.

Internet connections are getting faster all the time, especially with technologies like FTTC, FTTH, and docsis 3.0.

It may seem like it takes a long time to download a BD now, but when BD or HDDVD become the norm as DVD is today, 50mbps internet connections will also be the norm. And at 50mbps, a BD downloads in under 20 minutes.
--
"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.

permalink · 2007-01-28 12:32:58 · Print ·

Martindziad Premium join:2002-04-04 Chicago, IL clubs:	This is just funny. LoL how long do they think their new protection would last, this is just super funny to me for some reason. Either way if they do implement some new protection format someone out there will crack it eventually, no matter what.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 12:02:17 ·

BF69 join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN	Last time I checked "almost" doesn't count. What is the newsworthyness of something that is "almost"
	permalink · 2007-01-23 12:18:54 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast 1 edit	Re: Last time I checked Something to look forward to? Seeing as I am paying $24-$29 a pop for these new BD movies, you damn skippy I want to back them up! Cracking is the only way I have(AFAIK) to exercise "Fair Use". -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 12:22:28 ·

kpatz
MY HEAD A SPLODE
Premium
join:2003-06-13
Manchester, NH

1 edit

It's not just about burning or uploading...

Cracking the DRM also allows uses such as:

* storing movies on a media server
* playing discs on Linux and other open OSes
* playing discs in HD on displays that aren't "approved" for HD display (due to lack of HDCP inputs), if/when the downrez flag starts being used
* Backing up discs before the toddler or dog starts teething on them
* Format shifting (it would be nice to be able to buy a HD or BD disc, then rip it, downconvert to 480p, and burn a regular DVD to watch on a portable). Sound like a weird thing to do? Ripping a CD to a MP3 player is no different...

Not to mention other uses allowed by Fair Use, including copying excerpts for educational purposes.
--
SMTP: Spam and Malware Transfer Protocol. Also used on rare occasion to transmit e-mail messages.

permalink · 2007-01-23 12:52:40 · Print ·

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:

·Comcast

Re: It's not just about burning or uploading...

said by kpatz

:

Cracking the DRM also allows uses such as:

* storing movies on a media server
* playing discs on Linux and other open OSes
* playing discs in HD on displays that aren't "approved" for HD display (due to lack of HDCP inputs), if/when the downrez flag starts being used
* Backing up discs before the toddler or dog starts teething on them
* Format shifting (it would be nice to be able to buy a HD or BD disc, then rip it, downconvert to 480p, and burn a regular DVD to watch on a portable). Sound like a weird thing to do? Ripping a CD to a MP3 player is no different...

Not to mention other uses allowed by Fair Use, including copying excerpts for educational purposes.

Agreed!
--
Webmaster - Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»ppnhosting.com
»www.1-gb.net
»pokemonpalace.net

permalink · 2007-01-23 12:56:41 · Print ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast 1 edit	*Damn Straight!* At this point in time, the only machine I have that will play(soon to rip) BD is this laptop. Now, at $24-$29 per DVD, Hell Yes I want to back them up! -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 13:12:28 ·

jimkyser

join:2000-10-13
Naperville, IL

* playing discs in HD on displays that aren't "approved" for HD display (due to lack of HDCP inputs), if/when the downrez flag starts being used

Exactly!

I have a Pioneer plasma HDTV that just happens to be too old to have HDMI. I use component video to connect it to my Dish Network HDTV receiver. It displays very nicely in 1080i. I don't want the MPAA to suddenly decide my TV is not supported for full HD viewing.

* storing movies on a media server

I am looking into one of these, too, for my music and my movies.

permalink · 2007-01-23 15:42:04 · Print ·

tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One

said by kpatz

:

* Format shifting (it would be nice to be able to buy a HD or BD disc, then rip it, downconvert to 480p, and burn a regular DVD to watch on a portable). Sound like a weird thing to do? Ripping a CD to a MP3 player is no different...

Until they come out with an HD PDA(and what would be the point in that?), keep the DRM cracks coming!
--
I cannot stand demagoguery. If you disagree with my stance, you're a blithering twit. You're not a twit, are you?

permalink · 2007-01-23 16:26:50 · Print ·

jwardl

join:2000-08-12
Spring, TX

No surprise

Any DRM *will* be cracked, given time.

The studios will no more eliminate theft than the local Wal-Mart manager has. Some theft is a fact of sales. All they can do is minimize it.

To do so, all they need to do is provide their market with a product worth paying for, and find a price point that people are willing to pay, that allows them to make a profit.

Unfortunately, the MPAA would read that last paragraph as, "Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah MAKE A PROFIT."

permalink · 2007-01-23 13:25:01 · Print ·

brooklynman4 join:2004-09-07 Brooklyn, NY	Re: No surprise its been cracked alrady where have you guys been lol
	permalink · 2007-01-23 14:46:40 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: No surprise said by brooklynman4 : its been cracked alrady where have you guys been lol Too busy watching them! Waiting(hoping) for the prices of blanks to come down. I'd really hate to have Ulead make me a $18.00 coaster. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 14:51:41 · Print ·

TigerLord Resident Pentaxian Premium,Mod join:2002-06-09 Chicoutimi	Re: No surprise Maybe not on BitTorrent or Emule, but I bet a week's salary you'll see plenty of Blu-Ray content on Usenet.
	permalink · 2007-01-23 15:32:31 ·

Martindziad Premium join:2002-04-04 Chicago, IL clubs:	Re: No surprise U betcha!
	permalink · 2007-01-23 17:58:23 ·

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

said by TigerLord

:

Maybe not on BitTorrent or Emule, but I bet a week's salary you'll see plenty of Blu-Ray content on Usenet.

There's little to no HD content on emule, but there's tons of x264, and original streams to be found on usenet.

I'd kill myself downloading this on emule. 0-20 KBps just doesn't cut it like it did when my max downstream was 88 KBps.
--
The Problem With Music.

Our Rationale

Time to rewrite the DMCA.

permalink · 2007-01-23 20:58:36 · Print ·

JimmySask

join:2004-06-24
Regina, SK

DRM vs File Size

Honestly, I think that the file size is going to be the biggest barrier to mass piracy of HD/BD movies. With current connection speeds of the average user, it really is likely to be a pain to get a full size rip of the disk, and when you compress the video, you will lose quality somewhere.

So... To me, the FILE SIZE is the deterrant, more so than the DRM, because we all know there will better tools to avoid DRM soon enough. I download movies to watch that I am unsure about - the same as music. If I like it, I buy it, often just to get the higher quality version. I would not be so likely to do so with the file sizes necessary to maintain the quality that makes it worthwhile considering an HD version of a movie. More likely, I would download the standard-def version, because I could get a complete DVD rip in a smaller file size than a heavily compressed HD version.

Some food for thought: Popular Mechanics did some experiments a few months back. They set up a regular DVD in a high-end progressive scan DVD player, connected to an HDTV. They set up an HD-DVD player wih a copy of the same movie in HD-DVD format (If I recall, Blu-Ray was not launched, or possibly not widely launched at least, at the time of the experiment). With their test subjects at optimum viewing distance, most of the test subjects noticed no appreciable difference in video quality.
--
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me too....

permalink · 2007-01-23 17:34:31 · Print ·

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

·Comcast

1 edit

Re: DRM vs File Size

EXACTLY!!!
Thank you JimmySask!

I have a delima though... my HD screen is 18-20 inches from my eyes.Trust me, I can see the difference!
It's more or less pointblank!

Here's a nugget... the "Extras" or "Deleted Scenes" are presented in SD of some of the discs(*cough* Warner Brothers *cough*).

Night and day!

Ah well, the main movie is killer!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

permalink · 2007-01-23 17:52:32 · Print ·

JimmySask join:2004-06-24 Regina, SK	Re: DRM vs File Size At that distance, you can pick out the pimples a "film star's" backside in SD, nevermind HD. I can see where that might be an issue, sitting that close... -- I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me too....
	permalink · 2007-01-23 18:15:28 ·

dadkins Can you do Blu? Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA ·Comcast	Re: DRM vs File Size Sure is going to force the makeup artists to earn their pay! We won't get into(pun intended) adult "Research Videos". -- Think outside the Fox... Opera
	permalink · 2007-01-23 19:16:34 ·

PolarBear The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium join:2005-01-03 Riverside, WA	Re: DRM vs File Size I don't think I would WANT to see an "adult research video" in 1080p. There are just some flaws you DON'T want to be able to see! -- "I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del.
	permalink · 2007-01-28 12:42:38 ·

brut7 join:2000-10-06 Babylon, NY	xvid File size? Have you guys viewed 1080p xvids or H.264 vids? Have a look over here: »www.apple.com/quicktime/guide/hd/ Best Wishes
	permalink · 2007-01-24 19:04:08 ·

brut7 join:2000-10-06 Babylon, NY 1 edit	ooops
	permalink · 2007-01-24 19:05:29 ·

nexus79
Premium
join:2003-07-08
Japan

In the past couple weeks, I've been seeing an increasing amount of HD-DVD movies on my favorite torrent sites. I've been enjoying the higher def. However, even with my 100Mbit fiber optic Internet connection, there is no way I'm going to try and download the 25GB HD-DVDs - I'm getting the compressed ones which are usually x264 format, the 720p ones come in at the same size of a compressed DVD (4 point something gigs). That's about the max I'm willing to download, even on my fast connection...

If you want the 1080p stuff, EVEN COMPRESSED the file sizes are quite ridiculous... and I know most people in the world don't even have the connection I have, so...
So I think the pirating of HD-DVD & Blu-Ray movies is almost a non-issue. The favored format, by far (due to bandwidth constraints) will be the 700MB Div'xs & xvid rips of standard DVDs. At least for the foreseeable future. When we all have 1 gig to the desktop, then it'll be a different story.
--
Bandwidth is just like money - you can never get enough of it!

permalink · 2007-01-25 01:27:43 · Print ·

lakino
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Campbell, CA

Re: non issue

said by nexus79

:

If you want the 1080p stuff, EVEN COMPRESSED the file sizes are quite ridiculous... and I know most people in the world don't even have the connection I have, so...
So I think the pirating of HD-DVD & Blu-Ray movies is almost a non-issue. The favored format, by far (due to bandwidth constraints) will be the 700MB Div'xs & xvid rips of standard DVDs. At least for the foreseeable future. When we all have 1 gig to the desktop, then it'll be a different story.

It will come very soon. today 700mb xvids, tomorrow 4.3gb x264 will be the standard. I'm 100% positive it'll happen very soon. I'm quite looking forward to it. 1280 x 720 resolution is plenty for me. Don't need anything more in the next 10 years.
--

In an uncertain world, there is absolutely no security in banding together. -- Robert X. Cringely

permalink · 2007-01-25 11:43:52 · Print ·

though

join:2003-12-03
Lincoln, NE

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfzLVogXOpM

permalink · 2007-01-26 19:03:36 ·

your comment..

Forums » Blu-Ray (Almost) Cracked


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Cyberlink license revoked

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This is what you get for buying software.

Re: This is what you get for buying software.

all of you are missing the point.

Size is a better at stopping piracy

Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy

It was just a matter of time.....

Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy

Re: Size is a better at stopping piracy

This is just funny.

Last time I checked

Re: Last time I checked

It's not just about burning or uploading...

Re: It's not just about burning or uploading...

No surprise

Re: No surprise

Re: No surprise

Re: No surprise

Re: No surprise

DRM vs File Size

Re: DRM vs File Size

Re: DRM vs File Size

Re: DRM vs File Size

Re: DRM vs File Size

xvid

Re: non issue