 
Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs: | When it is available over more of your footprint..... Great...come back when you have covered a much larger portion of your foot print. | |
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wdoa
join:2001-10-16
Spencer, MA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... ..bingo... I don't think Verizon has plans to roll out FIOS in anything but the most populated areas. Here in Central Massachusetts Verizon has limited FIOS to areas within 30 miles or so of Boston. I'm 10 miles west or Worcester, so I don't think the odds of seeing FIOS in these parts in the next decade are so are very high. | |
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| | arck1969
join:2006-11-27
Apple Valley, CA | Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... FIOS is in rural areas in California. If Banning, CA has FIOS then you really in the middle of nowhere... | |
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| | | Pixie74
join:2006-09-10
Glen Allen, AL
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... Ha! Banning, CA. has over 23,000 people in 2000 I do NOT think that is "rural" or "the middle of nowhere". Try living in Winfield, AL. this is from city-data.com Population (year 2000): 4,540. Estimated population in July 2005: 4,673 (+2.9% change)
So yeah get a "town" with a population less than 10,000 that has FIOS and I will take that as rural, until then Verizon is still just cherry picking the rich highly populated areas. | |
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| | | | Cyber2lz
join:2001-11-15
Odessa, FL
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... I live in Odessa, Florida on a dead end road at the edge of a lake. We have had FIOS for going on two years. Hardly the bustling metropolis that is Banning, CA !!!
So all the hype about V* cherry picking dense/new/high income neighborhoods is Bravo Sierra.
Just a thought,
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The Light Pipe is the Right Pipe !!! | |
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| | | | | madrhino
join:2004-07-03
·Verizon FIOS
·Comcast
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... said by Cyber2lz  :I live in Odessa, Florida on a dead end road at the edge of a lake. We have had FIOS for going on two years. Hardly the bustling metropolis that is Banning, CA !!! So all the hype about V* cherry picking dense/new/high income neighborhoods is Bravo Sierra. Just a thought, Let me guess.A ramshackle trailer in the middle of a mosquito,snake and gator infested swamp with no local politicians or influential neighbors for miles.The kind of God forsaken hellhole that only exists in WWII jungle prison movies.
Did I mention no influential neighbors?
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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intercede007
join:2002-10-20
Fort Walton Beach, FL
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... said by madrhino :Let me guess.A ramshackle trailer in the middle of a mosquito,snake and gator infested swamp with no local politicians or influential neighbors for miles.The kind of God forsaken hellhole that only exists in WWII jungle prison movies. Actually, a metropolitan area within roughly 20 miles of more than 600,000 people (Tampa and St. Petersburg). | |
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| | | | | | | madrhino
join:2004-07-03
1 edit | Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... Gee.I wonder if any retired Verizon executives live anywhere near there.
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Get Verizon FIOS,The Anti-DIOS | |
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| | | | | | | | Fausttt
join:2006-08-07
Norfolk, VA
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... oh yeah. It costs billions to roll out a whole new infrastructure. How dare verizon try to cut their costs by rolling out the higher income locations and big cities first then spread from there. Its no in my location yet but damned if im complaining. it has been out all of around 3 years. OMG how dare they dont have it in bumf--- wherever. How come i cant have a fiber line straight to my trailer!?! | |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... said by Fausttt :oh yeah. It costs billions to roll out a whole new infrastructure. How dare verizon try to cut their costs by rolling out the higher income locations and big cities first then spread from there. Its no in my location yet but damned if im complaining. it has been out all of around 3 years. OMG how dare they dont have it in bumf--- wherever. How come i cant have a fiber line straight to my trailer!?! they can go ahead and cherry pick I don't care.....just do not make challenges you can only back up in 1% of your entire footprint.....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
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| | | | | | | | | migafre
join:2003-06-19
East Elmhurst, NY
| That's just BS man, I live in Queens, NY and the only areas I've seen dug up for FIOS is in Manhattan. Don't tell me Queens isn't dense enough at 30000 per square mile. It kills me to hear that some hole in Florida has FIOS and not my area. It doesn't fit your argument that infrastructure is rolled out in big cities and high income locations. | |
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| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| If Verizon were building out FIOS in the poorest state in the nation, to the least populated towns therein, I would be worried. Thank god you're not getting FIOS, or none of us would.. because they'd go out of business.
Btw, rich and most populated don't go hand in hand, it's usually one or the other. Rich people buy more land, and pay to keep low incoming housing out.. so there can't be as many people. | |
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| | | | atowncrazy
join:2001-11-17
Carrollton, TX | FiOS is deployed to where my parents live in Murphy Texas. Thay have less then 4000K people in the town. They also have other smaller surrounding towns as well. I would consider that rural. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Charter Pipeline
·Verizon west (ex G..
| If VZ was cherry-picking rich highly-populated areas, Banning, CA would have LOST to Redlands, CA.
Banning is a huge growth market right now as people ditch the urban sprawl (give it 10 years and they'll be right back where they started), but Banning has had FIOS since before VZ started putting FIOS in Redlands.
And even then, only a few people in Redlands can actually get FIOS. I'd say 3 people I know on this forum from Redlands have it (I'm not in that list), while I believe FIOS in Banning has more subscribers than Redlands.
Banning, in comparison, is "rural" to Redlands, which is suburban, at most.
Just my 2 cents.
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA | I have FiOS and I'm 7 miles from the nearest grocery store and nearly 12 miles from the closest CO.
Verizon isn't cherry picking anything. | |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
| Re: When it is available over more of your footprint..... again I never said they were cherry picking in this post (although I do think they are doing a couple of rural areas just so they can say "look we aren't cherry picking) I said that they should not be challenging cable until they have covered a much larger portion of their network....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| Any sign of it in Morgan Hill, CA? My firm used to have an office there and the DSL was great. We first opened the office when it was GTE but it quickly switched over to Verizon. I miss the place...
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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| | revuney
join:2003-03-22
Somerville, MA
| It seems like it's random in it's targeting of areas...
Cambridge and Somerville have yet to get a roll out, and they are right next to Boston. Yet oddly enough, Lynn (WTF) and Saugus both have it... Not that I'm complaining.. I have it, and I love it. | |
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| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Actually, FIOS is installed and working in towns right next to Worcester, like Westboro, which is 40+ miles from Boston. You still probably won't see FIOS until 2010, but a decade is absurd. Unless you live west of Springfield, you'll be brought to the 20th century soon enough. I'm sure the faster speeds won't improve your fact finding ability though.. | |
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| | bloodx
join:2002-08-25
North Myrtle Beach, SC | I'm in bloodx, SC, pop 9000. | |
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tc1uscg
join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI
1 edit | You are so right. Thats like saying "we have the most powerfull network" (in the one square block we offer it). Just like cell phone coverage.. Bet you won't see them around the Detroit market anytime soon. With 4 cable companies and AT&T in the area, they won't come near it. Hey Verizon, what are you afraid of, if you have such a badass attitude, bring it on, right here in the metro detroit. Be nice to see you get put in your place... | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Why wait? said by JTRockville :If we're lit, let's get crunk now! I think their attitude is, if we don't have to crank it up, why bother? | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: Why wait? said by JTRockville :So we're all still essentially dependent on cable companies if we want higher speeds? I don't like that dependence one bit, even if it's indirect! C'MON VERIZON. DON'T HIDE IN THE SHADOWS OF CABLE COMPANIES!
BRING THE LIGHT
WE'LL GRAB IT Unfortunately it's nothing new. Telcos where screaming a while ago about how they could barely offer 1.5M for $50/month and be profitable. Now I can get 5.0M for about $60/month. As competitions forces providers to pony up, we get more for less. Of course, every consumer wants more for less and most any company wants to give you less for more.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| But will you pay for it?
... and also, I thought Verizon was going to come in, save the day, and operate their system consumer friendly giving the people what they need.
This is just evidence that Verizon is out for themselves.. and if they could kill off cable with their better-late-than-never service, they go back to being what phone does best... rape the consumer.
There you have it. "We'll raise our speeds only when we have to"...
Ahhh... what a great day to see all you phone fan-bois (nice to get it in return, huh?) finally have to eat their own silly notions.
Want more light? Buy a 100 watt bulb.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | BROADBAND SMACKDOWN!! | |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
1 edit | Its not going to be one for one What going to happen is that one will raise speeds, then the other copies, then 6-12months goes by, then another rate increase. Its not going to get 100M overnight. Even Verizon knows thats a losing game.. | |
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rtyutdh
@optonline.net
| Re: Its not going to be one for one said by DaveNJ :ts not going to get 100M overnight. Technically, Verizon's GPON can't reach 100Mbps per customer unless they decrease the number of users sharing bandwidth (currently 32 customers) or upgrade their network to WDM-PON which will cost an additional thousands of dollars per customer. Additionally, I think they have almost hit the ceiling with the 50Mbps plan. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Its not going to be one for one said by rtyutdh :said by DaveNJ :ts not going to get 100M overnight. Technically, Verizon's GPON can't reach 100Mbps per customer unless they decrease the number of users sharing bandwidth (currently 32 customers) or upgrade their network to WDM-PON which will cost an additional thousands of dollars per customer. Additionally, I think they have almost hit the ceiling with the 50Mbps plan. Verizon can always oversubscribe like cable companies do, but Verizon has a long way to go until it reaches the ratios of cable companies (40mbitsps/200 customers=20kbitps per customer verse 622/32=19mbitps per customer, long way to go before VZ drops that low). | |
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majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY |  Yeah right
I do not see an equivalent package from verizon. | |
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See 19 replies to this post |
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raIDERspeed
join:2002-07-26
Soledad, CA | AT&T U-verse what about AT&T U-verse? NOT! | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: AT&T U-verse What about it? AT&T is not Verizon. | |
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cptmiles
Premium
join:2004-04-22
Swayzee, IN
| What Sites Please don't put me in the "How much do they really need" category, but I have access to a 30M connection via my FTTP provider (not Verizon) and I can't even find a site to prove that I am getting close to that speed. So I will say it. What can I really do with that much download capabilities as a residential customer without doing anything illegal? | |
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| timog
join:2006-01-08
Richboro, PA
1 edit | Re: What Sites hehe... cant make use of your 30Mbit line??? You need to use BitTorrent more and download more from Pr0n sites.
I often see more than 10Mb from my 15/2Mb FIOS line when downloading large videos from a pron site. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Re: What Sites I guess you have a few 500 gig HDs and gallons of lotion. LOL!!!! | |
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| blips
join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL
1 edit | »Amazon, Tivo Video Downloads
Download movies & move mass amounts of data across the interent such as backups. Share higher quality video that will look good on a tv instead of some 2.5" screen on a phone. If you have a fast upstream I would love to connect to my house with VPN and control my computer at home with VNC and not wait 30 seconds for every mouse movement I make. | |
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| phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
| said by cptmiles :Please don't put me in the "How much do they really need" category, but I have access to a 30M connection via my FTTP provider (not Verizon) and I can't even find a site to prove that I am getting close to that speed. So I will say it. What can I really do with that much download capabilities as a residential customer without doing anything illegal? I have Cablevision's 30/5 Boost service and wanted to give a couple of different Linux distros' "Live CD/DVD" a try. Was downloading two at once; one at approximately 2MB/s (yes, megaBYTE) and the other at around 1.5MB/s (yes, once again megaBYTE). Total throughput around 28Mbps. Granted... downloading two DVD ISOs at once isn't the norm for a residential customer, but it sure is nice to have the bandwidth.
Having a 30Mbps connection for a single, moderate to lite user does not make much sense. However, as more and more homes become multiple computer homes and the bandwidth needs of each goes up -- imagine a house full of teenagers each with their own laptop and each watching streaming videos, downloading music (legally, of course!), sharing pictures with friends, etc -- having that 30Mbps connections can come in handy. | |
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| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What Sites I already have something close to this.. we have three computers for my family of 3 (although one of us is only 2) and my wife constantly complains when I sap up bandwidth. Of course we're on comcasts 4mb plan because we get the special $99 triple rate. Fingers crossed for FIOS build out when that expires. | |
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proletarian
join:2007-01-08
00000
| Get the (price)point. Verizon (with the exception of the areas that offer the upgraded speeds) sell two speed tiers at two pricepoints.
One priced generally below cable for 5 meg for $39 and a $49 package with 15meg.
If they upgrade the speeds unnecessarily, they'll shoot themselves in the foot by cutting out revenue from most of the 15meg user.
ie, there are very few people who are going to pay $49 for a 20 meg package when they can get 10 or $39?? | |
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cbrain
join:2000-05-21
Silver Spring, MD | I've been hearing that for a year now ... without any increase in speed. Cable now offers a much higher download. I also see Verizon selectively raises the speed for some. I love my FiOS but view promises, ads and press releases from both industries with skepticism. | |
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whsftbldad
join:2007-02-07
Lakewood, CA
| FiOSLarge and small markets In speaking with a Verizon field tech, who reported this after a meeting, Verizon is holding off the large scale roll out of FiOS. This is explained as they want to use fiber to replace bad copper. They are only going to put FiOS in areas with problem CO's (Central Office), or old, problem backbone cabling in certain areas. This will reduce the time their techs spend on repeat trouble calls to areas with old copper. I am in the Long Beach/Lakewood CA area. I am a comm tech for another company and do work for Verizon and at&t residential and business. I want FiOS, but my area is not labeled "bad" yet, but 2 1/2 miles south there a couple of people that have it. I currently have Road Runner 8 down and 768 up verified. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | Fios How about symmetrical speeds? that would be the death knell to cable.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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raye
Premium
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA
| It helps having one of the largest IP backbones in the world One of the crown jewels (the biggest jewel IMHO) from the MCI aquisition was the MCI/UUNET IP backbone. Along with Sprint's IP backbone, it is one of the largest in the world; with OC-192 (and some OC-768 in some places) pipes the standard.
The cable companies have to buy their access for the most part; they have the local infrastrucuture but do not have their own global connections. Exception might be AOL's ATDN IP backbone but I am unsure if that is owned/operated by Time Warner Cable. I think not since TWC's/Roadrunner's routing tables tend to favor Level3.
As a result Verizon will be able to up speeds more quickly than the Cable cos, but if they will be able to match and exceed cable as their subscriber numbers apparoch cable remains to be seen. | |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA | Then finish them off ! I'd love to have more speed  | |
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Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| i'm stunned... that verizon hasn't been able to really penetrate the southern california market, like orange county and san diego counties... there is definiately a great need for this type of competitive nature to push cox and time warner into a different phase of their services... I would welcome FTTH or FIOS, but i fear that i'm not going to see it anytime soon if verizon is going to drag their feet mostly in the east coast... | |
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| proletarian
join:2007-01-08
00000 | Re: i'm stunned... Verizon doesn't have a lick of turf in San Diego County. | |
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| | Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| Re: i'm stunned... said by proletarian :Verizon doesn't have a lick of turf in San Diego County. I know, that's why i don't understand their expansion plans that do not include san diego nor orange county, but that's just me... | |
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| kamgol
join:2007-02-14
San Diego, CA | There's a reason why Verizon is not hitting a lot of the San Diego area. Most of it is dominated by SBC aka AT&T. They will be rolling out the competing U-Verse service in the next 2-3 months. | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI | Cell this cell phone company sucks. | |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| Verizon just blinked. Looks like Verizon is like that American kid in that Cisco commercial that blinks in video conference stare down with kid from Asia. Asia in this case being Comcast. Instead of going for the jugular it is shaking its tale like a gecko before it eats its prey, giving ample warning to get out of the way. Verizon says it has the network but says it will only unleash it full potential if cable companies up the bar. IMO the just took a step back.
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www.seabee.org | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Verizon just blinked. Now will the phone go out and internet if there is a power failure?? | |
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vzfioztek111
@myvzw.com | Re: Verizon just blinked. dial tone is backed up by a bbu @ the prim. tv and internet is disable during power outage. | |
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| | | utahluge
join:2004-10-14
Draper, UT
·Comcast
·MSTAR
| Re: Verizon just blinked. Here in Utah, I am on the iProvo network (similar to Utopia) where they have EVERY residence in the city able to be immediately hooked up to the fiber network. They put a UPS on their equipment that they put in houses to keep it up in a power outage!! It doesn't do me much good as my router isn't on a UPS but I think I am going to do it so I can use my laptop during a power outage. They are doing it RIGHT here on the iProvo network.
FYI, from what I have heard, you can get 100Mb/s within the iProvo network, but when you get outside of the iProvo network they limit your connection to the advertised 10Mb/s. I am going to test this in the next day or so as a friend of mine is on the same subnet as me. | |
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bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON | Canada went in the other direction It's nice to see competition in America. Here in Canada we've gone in the other direction. Slower speeds, absurd caps, speed throttling, double billing for busting 20 or 30 gigabytes a month, no newsgroups and email and sharply higher prices. | |
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tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| new ads In NY Metro, there are already commercials aimed at competition between Cablevision and Verizon (ground zero for telco vs cableco competition). Verizon has ads for fios telling you when you buy all that high-def tv and computer equipment, your throwing it away when you hook up to cable..vision..
Cablevision's response?
Mailers stating that FIOS is missing channels (What News 12?, NY1, Hah! Keep em) Cablemodem entry level speed is still slower... 15/2 or 15/5, with 30/5 as boost.. they also proclaim themselves the Fiber experts... Hmm, really? Cablevision is also targeting the triple play package at FIOS customers.. $29.95 x 3 ? Anywho... Cablevision doesn't charge extra for hi-def equipment.. fios does, woo..
In the broadband wars Verizon has 10/2, 20/5, and 50/5 at low, medium and high prices to match. Cablevision is entry level and boost $10+ for the 30/5..
If Verizon wants to put that out there, Why not boost the entry level speed up from 10/2 to 15/5, move 20/5 to 30/5, and make 50mbit symmetric... at current prices?
So, raise the speeds already and SHUT UP!!
The 10 megabits is already OOOLD and the upstream weak & piddly-- your still trying to make your dsl customers not feel antsy and shift to cable company while you keep delaying Ny Metro Fiber Deployments... Huh? | |
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| majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
| Re: new ads IF cablevision actually releases the narad tech 50/50 then verizon will have to make a symetrical package. With the narad tech and it being switched the standard docsis stinks ads wont work.
Also FIOS IS NOT available in a lot of cablevision areas.
Verizon needs a lot of work before they can truly compete with cablevision.
Also Cablevision does have fiber to the premises. Its Called there Lightpath service (wich goes up to 10 gig service) | |
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| | WETASS
join:2005-05-24
Pacoima, CA
| Re: new ads THey need to release symmetrical speeds. And cover all of socal once they do that its gonna be great!  I probably wont see it till 2010 or something like that  | |
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| | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| >Also FIOS IS NOT available in a lot of cablevision areas.
>Verizon needs a lot of work before they can truly compete >with cablevision.
>Also Cablevision does have fiber to the premises. Its Called there Lightpath service (which goes up to 10 gig service)
Verizon's overlay of Cablevision customer base: ~15% after about 2 1/2 years? In NY Metro, 85% of cablevision customers couldn't get fios.. doubtful that number will go up significantly in the next 2 1/2 years now does it..?
These points are true.. where the hell is the capex for 2007 going from Verizon's fttp deployment? We can only assume they've been redlining the most profitable deployments and services (fios-tv, wireless) at the expense of total overlay and maintaining legacy systems. These are not anomalous strategies but a concerted effort to keep costs down, profits up, shareholders happy, and attempts to be everything to everyone at the expense of the end consumer's choice and happiness.
IMHO, Verizon needs to reconsider their slow deployment schedule, because once the cable companies expand their networks into docis 3.0 or something else (narad), they can correctly exploit the saying: you can't get there from Verizon.. which is to say Verizon's FTTP network is not available everywhere **and hearkens back to the DSL failure/boondoggle**.. even the rhetoric from Verizon points to "LOOKING GOOD" while "DEPLOYING LESS"... its as mysterious as the war on terror.. you won't know which or when the broadband fttp black holes will be filled in, or with what technology: bpon, gpon, or when the bpons will be upgraded to gpons.
And the kicker is... they are hardly keeping a lid on prices.. something they claimed they would do.. perhaps this could have been partially forgiven if their deployment schedule had been implemented a bit quicker.. but nope..
BTW, if you have the $$CASH$$ Verizon can do 10gig-E easily with bonded GPONS, SYMMETRIC! | |
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mikedz4
join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV | verizon is cherry picking most definitely!!! Verizon come back when you cover ALL OF WEST VIRGINIA WITH FIOS. Then you can talk about not Cherry Picking with your FIOS, Only Then, got it???? | |
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PrinzII
join:2003-04-16
Gilbert, AZ
| I have read most of these posts and..... As for cherry picking the most populated areas, I am calling BS. If that was the case, why are large cities such as Chicago not getting FIOS? The closest I have heard FIOS coming to Chicago was Fort Wayne, IN and that is over 3 hrs away.
Let's face it. AT&T's Project Lightspeed hasn't been implemented yet and there are people in the Chicago area who are clamoring for competition to companies like Comcast. | |
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borathram
join:2006-12-26
Beaumont, CA | Banning Hey! I live in Beaumont, which is very close to Banning (2miles). It is not the rulalest (sic) of places in CA. I have been spreading the massage to my friends and neighbors abt FIOS and they love it. | |
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Verizon to Cable: Bring On The Mbps
Why wait?
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