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story category Battle Brews Over National Broadband Emergency Network
Cyren Call Versus Verizon & Cisco coalition...
(old news - 06:35PM Wednesday Feb 07 2007)
tags: business · wireless
The Associated Press says a battle is brewing over plans for a nationwide first responder emergency broadband network by a company named Cyren Call. The $17 billion plan would build 37,000 disaster-proof transmitter towers across the United States over a decade, in the process grabbing billions in public spectrum and putting it into a trust. "The money that would have been raised at auction, according to Cyren Call, would be reimbursed to taxpayers with funds "acquired by capital markets and secured with government loan guarantees," says the report. Those loans would then be paid back by commercial licensees who would share the network.

A group called the High Tech DTV Coalition, which is comprised of companies such as Verizon and Cisco, don't much care for the plan and have been fighting Cyren Call's proposal, which has the support of the majority of the nation's emergency personnel. Morgan O'Brien, chief of Cyren Call and a co-founder of Nextel, says he hasn't seen anyone come up with a better plan. The FCC meanwhile has told O'Brien the plan is too ambitious for them to authorize and requires Congressional approval. You can find the FAQ for Cyren Call's proposal here.

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Forums » Battle Brews Over National Broadband Emergency Network
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
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Netcong, NJ
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·Verizon Online DSL

Of course I believe you.

quote:
What are the broad outlines of Cyren Call’s plan?
Our plan is based on four basic principles:

Put public safety first:

Allocate enough prime spectrum for public safety:

Align the interests of public safety and the private sector:

Fix the problem now
They left out prime objective number one; hustle a buck.

TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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Avalon, NJ
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·Comcast

Re: Of course I believe you.

said by batterup See Profile :

quote:
What are the broad outlines of Cyren Call’s plan?
Our plan is based on four basic principles:
Put public safety first:
Allocate enough prime spectrum for public safety:
Align the interests of public safety and the private sector:
Fix the problem now
They left out prime objective number one; hustle a buck.
Looks like Cyren Calls plan is to suck up way more bandwidth than was allocated to Public Safety purposes than Congress authorized and be the sole builder of the new larger network, thereby sucking up way more money than Congress ever authorized. And they wonder why others are fighting their power and money grab tooth and nail?
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RadioDoc
58ef2c0
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Re: Of course I believe you.

Yup. These folks are Nextel in drag.
RadioDoc
58ef2c0
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join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest

There is no such thng...

...as a 'disaster-proof transmitter tower'. No matter what you do, no matter what you think you've planned for, ma nature will eventually smack you down.

Broadcast facilities in SoCal are built to withstand earthquakes and are hardened against wind and utility outage. You know what's taken the most out in the last decade? Wildfire.

A 1500 foot TV tower was just taken out by a tornado in Florida--a tower designed to withstand category 4 hurricanes. The chances of a tornado that strong hitting the tower are tiny...but it happened.

Anyone thinking this is going to work is in on the payout.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
For "Pompous Windbag", see 419381

Matt
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Re: There is no such thng...

said by RadioDoc See Profile :

...as a 'disaster-proof transmitter tower'. No matter what you do, no matter what you think you've planned for, ma nature will eventually smack you down.

Broadcast facilities in SoCal are built to withstand earthquakes and are hardened against wind and utility outage. You know what's taken the most out in the last decade? Wildfire.

A 1500 foot TV tower was just taken out by a tornado in Florida--a tower designed to withstand category 4 hurricanes. The chances of a tornado that strong hitting the tower are tiny...but it happened.

Anyone thinking this is going to work is in on the payout.
I think the idea is to build a network of 37,000 towers so if a few are taken out by a natural disaster or a terrorist, the network will still function. I don't think they are trying to say each tower will withstand anything thrown at it.
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RadioDoc
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Re: There is no such thng...

That's the problem. This is supposed to function in the area where the disaster is occurring/has occurred. No amount of generators is going to help you if the tower site is under 20 feet of water or if an F4 tornado decides to visit. The entire area will be down. Spend some time reading their proposals and filings. They are more concerned with getting their hands on some of that tasty 700 MHz band spectrum than anything.
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For "Pompous Windbag", see 419381
keyboard5684

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I agree. There is no "disaster-proof" anything. Disaster is a pretty broad spectrum. Norad is even vulnerable.

I think the "push because of public safety" is a horrible way to go about generating a revenue stream. People in that sector generally do not know much about technology, there radios work and the pcs in the cars work, they just want it to work and this probably sounds good to them.

To me it looks more like horrible vultures praying on lack of knowledge, government mis-spending, and some of the fears people have due to the current world situation.

Vultures.

2kmaro
Think
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ColossalCave
clubs:

As soon as I saw the words "disaster-proof" I immediately thought of things like
Titanic
Hindenburg
WTC
Chernoble

ohhhhh, the arrogance. Oooohhhhhh, the stupidity.

Now if they'd said multiple redundant path and function provisioned... I'd had said "pretty wordy, what does it mean" but at least it wouldn't have claimed to be totally immune to disaster.

And I agree - looks like an attempt to make a buck or a few billion of them. Wonder who they plan on getting the continuing maintenance contracts after the whole thing is built?

and why didn't I think of this first? another opportunity to become a billionaire from the pockets of the taxpayers missed, damn!
--
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apollo80

join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA

Re: There is no such thng...

said by 2kmaro See Profile :

ohhhhh, the arrogance. Oooohhhhhh, the stupidity.

Oh, the humanity!

Really, I thought turkeys COULD fly.

Sorry, WKRP reference there, I couldn't resist.

BTW, will such a tower survive, say, a NUCLEAR BLAST nearby?
RadioDoc
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join:2000-05-11

Re: There is no such thng...

Probably not. But it might survive a nucular one.
RadioDoc
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·AT&T Midwest

I just read part of their proposal. My spidey sense went into high tingle when I noticed this is being kited by a bunch of ex-Nextel folks. They're trying to get control of 30 MHz of spectrum to build and then lease out this system for commercial use when it's not needed for "emergency" use.

Smells like an end-run around the auction to me...
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tc1uscg

join:2005-03-09
Saint Clair Shores, MI

Yep. Murpheys law. I remember back in the summer, Sprint was going to work on a part of a major fiber path out west. They re-routed the traffic over to the redundent side then, as human stupidity would have it, some moron with a backhole chopped the redundent path in half. POOF!! West cost for more then just sprint customers were cut off for a few hours.

et3

@cox.net

Re: There is no such thng...

actually that is totally wrong do your homework. Fiber cuts happen but this was not the case you got bad intel. Govt huh big surprise.

batterup
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clubs:

Why?

Why does an ambulance in New York have to have broadband access to a fire house in Los Angeles?

We are not talking about a Department of Defense system, the DOD has a private system beyond what we will ever know.

dispatcher21

join:2004-01-22
united state

Re: Why?

Being able to have broadband access from NY to LA is of course possible with this but I dont think thats what the intended purpose is. Think more locally/statewide. As more of the techonology for dispatch is IP based, this would be a backup for local agencies incase their system went down due to weather or terrorist attacks. With the new IP phone systems and IP radio out there, if there was an outage of local resources, it would be awesome to be able to use this as a backup. 911 trunks damaged. No problem, switch the server over to this, a quick call to Qwest and the calls get re-routed. Radio towers are down? No problem, switch the radio server to the back up and your up and going. So yes, you can have coast to coast interopibilty if needed but I see it more as a backup for when local resources go down.

morbo
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Re: Why?

why not just use existing satellite phones as backup? i'd say that is as disaster proof as it gets.

no need to reinvent the wheel, right?

batterup
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Re: Why?

said by morbo See Profile :

why not just use existing satellite phones as backup? i'd say that is as disaster proof as it gets.

no need to reinvent the wheel, right?
This is just some small fish trying to grab prime spectrum at no or little cost. They admit most of the spectrum most of the time would be used commercially. If they can't pay for the spectrum that is tough, it goes to the highest bidder as US need the money.

The DoD doesn't share its network with leaches.

tschmidt
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Milford, NH
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What problem are they trying to solve

Lets step back a minute to address the problem space.

Interoperability
I agree emergency responder interoperability is a huge problem. Existing two-way radios are based on ancient radio technology and allocate a fixed frequency for a particular user and area. I used to be on the volunteer ambulance service on our town. Police, Fire, Ambulance, and Public Works were all on different frequencies. Not to mention dealing with Mutual Aid to other towns.

Fixing that requires new radios that are more like WiFi/Cellular then existing two-way service.

The downside of “fixing” interoperability is channel capacity, routing and security. Security is an especially thorny problem. How do you let trusted members communicate in ad hoc manner while keeping conversation private and protecting against denial of service (DOC) attack?

Spectrum
Voice is not very bandwidth intensive. Data and telemetry are very useful but again they are all that demanding. Given modern technology even supporting a few video feeds is not a problem. I don't see why the system would need to allocate lots of bandwidth.

Long Distance Communication
There is no reason to build out a new backbone - we already have the Internet. It is very robust and designed to route around failures.

Survivability
Mesh networks and micro cell technology combined with fiber backbone result in very robust network that is pretty inexpensive. Radio Mesh networks can maintain communication event if physical links are destroyed; however they are worthless without power. As we’ve seen with Hurricanes in New Orleans and ice storms here in New England power may be out for a week or more. That makes backup power a difficult problem.

As others have said any time someone bills a project as “disaster proof” my BS detector goes off. Military networks and the Internet are robust in the face a significant damage but if destruction is extensive enough the network will collapse. The trick is to build a robust flexible network that allows portable equipment to be trucked into the disaster area and quickly setup and integrated into the network. The other important aspect is not to over specialize the design. Using the Internet as an example the trick is focus on transparent end-to-end transport the so-called “DUMB” network. This allows applications to be added/removed without having to modify the network itself.

Price Tag
Not sure exactly what the $17 billion pays for. I don’t know how many responders are involved nationwide. If that equips each and every town, state and federal responders with a robust 21th century communication system it seems pretty cheap.

/Tom

madrhino

join:2004-07-03

2 edits

.........

nm
madrhino

join:2004-07-03

A novel idea

Maybe we could run wires to individual houses that tied into a central location and worked on low voltage.
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morbo
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Re: A novel idea

can we add caller id for $9/month??

NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

Buy Nextel

I'm sure Sprint would love to see their Nextel iDEN network to the government and pay off their debts.

The government would get a unified architecture and would just have to put it on it's own network with Sprint's help.

Or Sprint could migrate everyone off it, secure it and rent it out to governments.
--
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motorolaman

@cox.net

it's all about ego

for the towers to work requires mobile and portable equipment in the hands of first responders. who will purchase and (more importantly) maintain this equipment?

NYC has been going around with this since the early 70's. one of the reasons it hasn't happened is due to the layers of bureaucracy and the ego's involved.
Forums » Battle Brews Over National Broadband Emergency Network


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