 
corpus guy
@sbc.com | FTTH Next they could give all the homeless in San Fran a new laptop to complement their city wifi. But FTTH for the homeless may be a problem. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL | Re: FTTH said by corpus guy :
But FTTH for the homeless may be a problem. FTTH=Fiber to the Homeless?
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | let the threats begin! "If the City deploys fiber, why should AT&T bother with any investments in the community?"
that's fine. if AT&T wants to ignore the future, let 'em die. | |
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SuperJoker
join:2005-11-21
Yermo, CA
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: let the threats begin! said by morbo  :"If the City deploys fiber, why should AT&T bother with any investments in the community?" that's fine. if AT&T wants to ignore the future, let 'em die. Yep, The "New" AT&T is sounding more and more like The "Old" AT&T every time they open their mouth. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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JamesPC
join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA
| Re: let the threats begin! ya, waist money on a city that already has the infrastructure (sarcasm). I would have to agree with ATT on this, there is no reason to build in a city like this if you ATT because there are hundreds of cities down the road that need ATT services. Why put so much in to not see as much back. THESE ARE COMPANIES PEOPLE, THEY MAKE MONEY. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
 ·Comcast
| said by morbo :"If the City deploys fiber, why should AT&T bother with any investments in the community?" Isn't AT&T just saying that if the city builds a fiber network they have no need to remain in SF. It is not AT&T ignoring the future, since it is not AT&Ts choice.
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| said by morbo :"If the City deploys fiber, why should AT&T bother with any investments in the community?" that's fine. if AT&T wants to ignore the future, let 'em die. AT&T can wait until SanFran builds a fiber infrastructure and then sue to make sure they can provide service over it. That way the taxpayers fund the system and then they get to use it.
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: let the threats begin! But they do not want that. AT&T competes by controlling the pipe. Take away that control and they do not have a competitive advantage over other independent ISPs. They will not sue to get access, they will sue to prevent the government from building and owning a competitive pipe.
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58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11 | Re: let the threats begin! Nice rant, but their behavior in Utah on Utopia begs to differ.
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Toolmaster of La Grange.
For "Pompous Windbag", see 419381 | |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | sounds good fiber and wifi say goodbye to at&t if they can get it through | |
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join:2006-04-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Re: sounds good fiber and wifi Then I say good riddance. Bring on Verizon, or whatever google is using all that DarkFiber for. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
1 edit | Re: sounds good fiber and wifi If the city builds it, it will not be Verizon, or AT&T, it will be an independent like Earthlink or Joes ISP.
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join:2000-11-18
Fremont, CA | Re: sounds good fiber and wifi And then they would get real competition on providing services to the end user. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL
·Comcast
| Re: sounds good fiber and wifi Not only real competition, but probably something they could not compete with. AT&T would likely leave the area as they would not provide a needed service that could not be undercut by competitors. This is why AT&T said they would not upgrade the city infrastructure, they would eventually be forced out and lose the investment. They will invest money elsewhere where the environment is better.
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24
| Given the anit-corporate sentiments expressed at the meetings for the Earthlink/Google project, there's little to no chance the city will build the network and then allow outside competition from the private sector. The services will be provided by the City itself or a non-profit funded by the city.
While I'm glad to see them run at&t out of town, its not creating competition. They're just replacing one choice with another. | |
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dbennett1106
join:2000-05-28
Menlo Park, CA | FTTH? I watched Palo Alto go through the FTTH and it was a big deal to dig up the entire city (which is flat). I can not see AT&T digging up the City (SF)to put in Fiber Optics. It is a big enough mess as it is. | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
| eh. I object to the City spending useless money on itself. Let at&t use its own money to roll out whatever it is they want. (Such as with Comcast, when they rolled out their own fiber).
San Francisco should instead spend money on local education as its getting worse and worse as the years go by. Don't let us become the next "Oakland."
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defcon888@gmail.com
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: eh. said by brandon :said by Defcon888 :I object to the City spending useless money on itself...San Francisco should instead spend money on local education That would also be spending money on itself. It's your definition of useless that needs work. As if fiber to every home would not potentially dramatically increase education anyway. I see no need for fiber to the home (especially not to promote better education). I think kids are fine with 56k to low speed lines. They don't need to download movies, music, and porn at home. 56k will do just fine for "research." Don't you think?
The phone systems are so old and outdated these days it's extremely hard to just simply upgrade all the networks in the city. (Lower income areas don't need fiber to the home - which was what at&t originally had in mind). I say.. everyone should stick with CABLE for television, as we have for the past x-amount of years.
Anyways, I'm for at&t all the way. Cops don't need Wi-fi in their cars to surf the web; etc, and the City itself does not need to spend such money on municipal computing/telecom technologies.
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defcon888@gmail.com
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myrddin97
join:2004-09-28
Edwardsville, IL
| Re: eh. said by Defcon888 :Anyways, I'm for at&t all the way. Cops don't need Wi-fi in their cars to surf the web; etc, and the City itself does not need to spend such money on municipal computing/telecom technologies. Who says just because they're connected to the internet means their going to be browsing web sights? It's entirely possible to have web based applications that could be useful to police officers and not even to be able to reach Google.
I'm not saying there isn't better things to spend money on and I've never even been to California so I can't really comment on the state of the schools in the area, but when is the last time you tried to surf for research, or any reason, on 56K? It would be fine if you're just loading text and the odd images? But how many web sights, especially from the larger companies are full of broadband crap that takes a while to load on a fast connection, let alone dial up? It can get a little more than frustrating at times.
I'm not saying it would be a magic turn around, but from the little information I've seen, it's not going to hurt things in the short run and should only help in the long. | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | Re: eh. said by myrddin97 :said by Defcon888 :Anyways, I'm for at&t all the way. Cops don't need Wi-fi in their cars to surf the web; etc, and the City itself does not need to spend such money on municipal computing/telecom technologies. Who says just because they're connected to the internet means their going to be browsing web sights? It's entirely possible to have web based applications that could be useful to police officers and not even to be able to reach Google. I'm not saying there isn't better things to spend money on and I've never even been to California so I can't really comment on the state of the schools in the area, but when is the last time you tried to surf for research, or any reason, on 56K? It would be fine if you're just loading text and the odd images? But how many web sights, especially from the larger companies are full of broadband crap that takes a while to load on a fast connection, let alone dial up? It can get a little more than frustrating at times. I'm not saying it would be a magic turn around, but from the little information I've seen, it's not going to hurt things in the short run and should only help in the long. What web based applications can you think of that would be useful for police officers? I think it would be a pain to have *insert amount of police cruisers-number* sets of managed computers. Think of the security involved and the management of such computers.
The last time I tried to do research on credible websites on 56k or something equivalent to such speeds went perfectly fine. I think the majority of internet users just use the internet to download, file share, check e-mail and surf the web. I understand that FTTH would be useful for home/small offices but for the majority of the people, it's just not worth it.
Bottom line: I don't think San Francisco needs to invest such money on a city-wide network. I think it is at&t that needs to update its network and only provide it to the people who can and will afford it. How often do you see businesses set up in "low income districts," as at&t would call it. But, of course, to be just and fair,... at&t should provide it to everyone -- which they eventually will in the inevitable future.
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defcon888@gmail.com
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elvey
Spamassassin
join:2001-02-17
San Francisco, CA | Re: eh. Major universities are offering video feeds of courses online. 56k won't cut it for that. | |
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JamesPC
join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA | exactly | |
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warriors
It's A Great Time Out
join:2001-06-05
Alviso, CA
| said by Defcon888 :56k will do just fine for "research." Don't you think? No! Imagine a gallery of butterfly pictures being loaded with the 56k modem. Yikes!
Web sites are getting heavier and heavier. They are full of contents. What about Discovery channel videos? no way you want to use a 56k modem. | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
1 edit | Re: eh. said by warriors :said by Defcon888 :56k will do just fine for "research." Don't you think? No! Imagine a gallery of butterfly pictures being loaded with the 56k modem. Yikes! Web sites are getting heavier and heavier. They are full of contents. What about Discovery channel videos? no way you want to use a 56k modem. What I'm REALLY trying to say is... the City itself does not need to spend money on a FTTH network. Most people in the City already have DSL, if not already cable availability...
If you believe you need broadband for research then fine. I don't think research requires FTTH speeds.
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defcon888@gmail.com
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want future now
@speakeasy.net
1 edit | Re: eh.
By your argument, we should all still be watching "on tv" over a scrambled analog tv signal instead of cable tv and youtube.
We need bigger pipes to allow us to build better apps for everyone, police officers could use a more automated means of filing their reports, or tracking down where their other officers are during a chase.
Students could make use of video or other rich apps to improve their education.
We could also use some real competition to Comcast and ATT. It is ridicoulous that asia and large parts of europe have 20-30mbps to the home and we are still screwing around with 6mbs with no solution in site. ATT is not agressively upgrading our pipes because it doesnt have to. They would love it if they didnt need to upgrade San Francisco for another 10 years.
The fact is, as a society, we should be making progress and agressively building out our future. You're message that 56k is good for kids (much less anyone) is a strange one. You probably shouldnt be allowed to post in this forums because of your stone age thinking. I mean, why do you even give a crap about the dsl community considering you dont care about advancing it. | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
·DSL EXTREME
| Re: eh. said by want future now :
The fact is, as a society, we should be making progress and agressively building out our future. You're message that 56k is good for kids (much less anyone) is a strange one. You probably shouldnt be allowed to post in this forums because of your stone age thinking. I mean, why do you even give a crap about the dsl community considering you dont care about advancing it.
Not with my tax dollars.
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defcon888@gmail.com
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IwantFtth
@pacbell.net | SF wont get as bad as oakland fiber should become the backbone for the city to attract more development for business someone has to build it whether it is comcrap, at&t or SF in the mean time wifi would be nice | |
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alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
|  San Francisco wants to be on The Cutting Edge!
AT&T has to change their thinking and Bite the Bullet, their decision of FTTP will not work and they have to redesign their Network or fail. The only problem is the BellHeads are back at AT&T, and they take forever to decide which could be a big problem for them. | |
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JamesPC
join:2005-10-12
Orange, CA
| SF dont know shit Just because they have the idea does not mean our local politicians can get it done. Lets see how much money the local government can spend (taxes) before it gets all worked out. Maybe they should leave it to the professionals or at least a company that does this for a living. Don't get me wrong I think its great SF is taking the action to get fiber to the city. The real problem is that a local government cant facilitate this without waisting also of tax payers money. | |
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Defcon888
Premium
join:2003-07-22
San Bruno, CA | Re: SF dont know shit  | |
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San Fran Wants Wi-Fi and Fiber
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