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RIAA's DMCA Takedown Request Process Flawed
BayTSP's process could put them in legal jeopardy
by Karl Bode 05:20PM Thursday Feb 08 2007
The MPAA and RIAA have long used the services of companies like BayTSP, who peruse p2p networks looking for the trading of copyrighted files; such companies frequently advertise fake clients to nab IP addresses. They then deliver this information back to the entertainment industry, who use it as the basis for DMCA takedown requests (example) and, in some cases, lawsuits. Blogger Ben Maurer (via Slashdot) explores just how (un)reliable this data collection process is:
"For my investigation, I wrote a very simple BitTorrent client. My client sent a request to the tracker, and generally acted like a normal Bittorrent client up to sharing files. The client refused to accept downloads of, or upload copyrighted content. It obeyed the law. I placed this client on a number of torrent files that I suspected were monitored by BayTSP (For my own protection I don't want to identify the torrents used for this research)" - - - [and found that] BayTSP does not confirm that the client it is accusing actually uploads illegal content could cause false identification of innocent users."
Obviously, most people using regular clients are connected with the intent to share the copyrighted file, but his primary point is that BayTSP could face legal issues, since they're technically never proving people actually uploaded or downloaded copyrighted content. He also highlights a number of ways it could be theoretically possible to generate fake takedown requests.

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brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

wish

There was a way to cut off their source of income......

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

1 recommendation

Re: wish

There is: Stop buying their shit.
ender7074

join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO

Re: wish

Done. I haven't bought a CD in years and have no plans to start ever again. And, no, I don't download music either.

snipper_cr
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Wheaton, IL

Re: wish

I havent bought a CD in years either. I might make the decleration that I have download good amount of music and movies, although immedinately will follow the person saying "OMG THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING ON A PUBLIC FORUM YOU PIRATAE, TEH RIAA/MPAA WILL APPRECIATE IT KTHXBI!!!11"

Unfortunatly, my own boycot doesnt seem to be having much help either.
--
Serenity Day - June 23rd 2006. You Can't Stop the Signal

Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND

1 recommendation

Re: wish

OMG THANK YOU FOR ADMITTING ON A PUBLIC FORUM YOU PIRATAE, TEH RIAA/MPAA WILL APPRECIATE IT KTHXBI!!!11

Expand your moderator at work

sivran
Seamonkey's back
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1

Re: wish

Sheesh for a minute I thought you were serious
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
said by snipper_cr:

I havent bought a CD in years either. ....

Unfortunatly, my own boycot doesnt seem to be having much help either.
same here - no CDs, no DVDs, no DRMed "legal" downloads

remember: a journey of 1000 miles starts with a single step

now if I could only go the next step and get rid of comcast...

J E F F
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Rogers Portable ..
You are a pirate! It disgusts me how you people think you have the right to download movies and music and software without paying the proper royalties...I hope you(s) burn in hell.

Anyway, can't say anything more, I have to check how my DVD-Screeners are doing on my bit torrent client. Plus I gotta download some more albums because of some of the great music I listened to off of satellite.


--
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." Bill Gates - 1981

pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: wish

said by J E F F:

You are a pirate! It disgusts me how you people think you have the right to download movies and music and software without paying the proper royalties...I hope you(s) burn in hell.

Anyway, can't say anything more, I have to check how my DVD-Screeners are doing on my bit torrent client. Plus I gotta download some more albums because of some of the great music I listened to off of satellite.


Indeed!

"chu!"
--
Webmaster - Steve
- - - - - - - - - - - -
»ppnhosting.com
»www.1-gb.net
»pokemonpalace.net

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
You can always buy from non-RIAA/indie labels as well as going to band shows and buying merchandise..

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

Re: wish

Find me the Alice In Chains and Dream Theaters and Apocalypticas not signed to major labels, and maybe I'll consider it.

For now, abstaining from 95% of all music made isn't really an option.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Bright House

I've got a DEAL!

Major labels have signed 95% of all music made?

Did they pay royalties to George Washington's Church Choir or did they stiff them like nearly every black artist before 1970?

Dig it! My Glee Club has a major record deal!!!

Your glee club's in the OTHER 5%. Nyaah, nyaah, nyaah!

NV

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

Re: wish

Guess it's easier for me because I prefer a lot of the really out there stuff that's not on major labels anyway.

Most of the crap I get has to be ordered on-line and some of it even takes Amazon a month or so to get their hands on.

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
said by thender2:

Find me the Alice In Chains and Dream Theaters and Apocalypticas not signed to major labels, and maybe I'll consider it.
Umm Dream Theater recently signed onto Roadrunner Records and I believe AiC was on a major label before Layne passed away..
Expand your moderator at work

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

Re: wish

Thanks for pointing out what I already said.

My point was that they are on a major record label, and talents with similar musical skill are not on indie labels.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

Re: wish

said by thender2:

Thanks for pointing out what I already said.

My point was that they are on a major record label, and talents with similar musical skill are not on indie labels.
Musical skills or "packagable", homogenized "talent"? Just because you don't know about skilled music sources doesn't mean they're not out there.

-tom
--
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

Re: wish

said by nixen:

said by thender2:

Thanks for pointing out what I already said.

My point was that they are on a major record label, and talents with similar musical skill are not on indie labels.
Musical skills or "packagable", homogenized "talent"? Just because you don't know about skilled music sources doesn't mean they're not out there.

-tom
I predicted this a mile away.

I know there are, but by comparison, they're few and far between when you consider what a stranglehold the RIAA and major labels have over music distributed in the US. It's simply not viable for someone whose primary hobby is music to stop listening to so much music.
--
The Problem With Music.


Our Rationale


Time to rewrite the DMCA.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
said by ender7074:

Done. I haven't bought a CD in years and have no plans to start ever again. And, no, I don't download music either.
I used to buy 30-40 CDs a year. Then, the RIAA started their shit. Haven't bought new music since then. And, no, I don't download music (that isn't made available for free by the author), either.

-tom
--
"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis

phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
said by brianiscool:

There was a way to cut off their source of income......
I've stopped worrying about them anymore. Send me a letter, I'll just download thru IRC, or a few other options I know as a backup. I am sick of hearing how rich artist and actors are these days, and don't feel up to contributing to their financial gain, as it does nothing for me. Most of the stuff out these days doesn't really entertain me. The stuff that does, I purchase. Most artist have 3 songs (if even) that are entertaining enough to listen to, the rest are just junk/filler songs to make people spend $15-$20 for the album. Not to mention, the radio stations these days play the new songs so often, in such rapid rotation, they prevent the listener from feeling the urge to buy the album after hearing a particular song a million times a day. And coming from a person who makes music too, I don't take offense to it. It actually saves money on production, and considering you need a few hundred thousand sales to get enough copies online to start hurting the artist, by the time their pockets feel the effect of piracy, they are already rich.
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1.

viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL

We need music to live

Even if you don't buy a CD or use P2P the RIAA would say your lying and that your really stealing music. Just like we all need to breath to live, the RIAA thinks we all need music to live.

riaasux

@pacbell.net

fake process

intent to download legal files but without downloading or uploading there is no crime

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

Re: fake process

said by riaasux :

intent to download legal files but without downloading or uploading there is no crime
Taking action to do something isn't the same thing as intent. That's why they can prosecute pedophiles who think they're talking to kids, when in reality they're talking to an investigator. I think RIAA sucks, too, just pointing out the law on intent.
russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

Legal process is flawed

The problem is that there's no punishment for a false takedown notice. Good for BayTSP and the **AA, bad for everyone else.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
Reviews:
·Charter

This proves what?

I thought the infringement came when the suspect IP made available the copyrighted material, not actually distributing it.

This is like saying bootlegging out of the trunk of your car is not illegal if no one actually buys anything.
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::
Kital

join:2002-01-04
Park Hills, MO

Re: This proves what?

There is no proof that they are making it available if no one has received it. For that matter if I make a torrent called TheMatrixTrilogy, until some one gets it, as far as they know it could be a word file or family photos.

DaSneaky1D
what's up
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

Re: This proves what?

OK, that's the part I was missing in my understanding. Thx for the clarification.
--
:: my trivial ramblings ::

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

My answer: Block BayTSP in my firewall

I have most, if not all of the ranges they use to try
and scare people away from p2p (and yes, this is a scare
tactic - they assume that just because you are using BT,
you are sharing copyrighted files) in my Sygate Pro Advanced
Rules to always block.

Most of these have been obtained from the various IP
blocklists, such as used by PeerGuardian and those that
Bluetack uses.

Also, here is the p2pnet.net article on this as well:
»p2pnet.net/story/11263
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
bigjimc

join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA

Novel Idea

Why not share your music collection with your friends via AIM or Yahoo IM. Don't share with the world.

And rip your MP3s in 192bit or better. I hate these 96ers.

Just like swapping tapes in the 80s.

The best is the artists like Barenaked Ladies who have come out with their own record label. Their best comment was. They could sell 23,000 copies of their own labeled album and make as much as when they would sell 1,000,000 records on the major label.

Use the major labels to create a following then fulfill that contract and go it alone.
Methadras

join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA

what i don't understand...

is how baytsp or any of the other henchmen of the **AA's know what you are sending simply based on file name of alleged content... for example, if i setup a fake file, send it out, someone at baytsp sees this file and says, "oh, i've got you now with ip address and file" and then send out a takedown request to my isp or even if it goes to court, how will baytsp explain the actual contents of the packet if they are encrypted...? can someone explain this to me...? because it seems you can nab people for downloading files, but what if they are downloading fake filenames that are based on fake files or content...?

••••••

karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Chicago, IL

Flawed Legal Process

First question, does a corporation have ANY legal right to monitor what you use your internet connection for? If Baytsp is OFFERING a legitimate file, then I can legally download it. If they are offering a FAKE file, then I'm not guilty.

The problem is that we are allowing the outsourcing of the law to private companies. That is wrong on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin. We the people granted the GOVT the right to prosecute crimes, show me where in the constitution any corporation has those right.

Any lawsuit filed with information from Baytsp or the ilk should automatically be thrown out. Only the govt has the right to enforce the law, and hopefully the courts will recognize that
--
Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs.

manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth, TX

Re: Flawed Legal Process

These are civil lawsuits. At least take the time to understand the issue.

44402812
Hack The Planet
Premium
join:2006-08-28
Plattsburgh, NY

1 edit

Nightfall WTF Are You?

(Nightfall) usually has something that is pro-RIAA/MPAA
I wonder if he has wet dreams of them at night

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Re: Nightfall WTF Are You?

Neither have any of the other pro-RIAA/MPAA types
posted about this news item. Not even a certain
anonymous troll who posts from a Comcast account in
Taylor, MI.

I guess this subject matter is something they would
rather not comment on.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

anonman

@cbp.dhs.gov

Re

With digital radio such as SIRUS, you can listen to it on your PC, and you can copy the stream to your PC anytime.
no need for P2P networks. Its just like copying music off the radio with casettes back in the day.

rbinpa

@verizon.net

1 edit

RIAA SUCKS!

I will never buy another piece of music or download another piece of music as long as I live after reading this. I might just go sell my CDs and shit to someone who cares...get some money back. SCREW THE RIAA!
short09

join:2006-07-21

riaa sucks

ima continue to dl music until riaa says i cant