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HD-DVD, BluRay DRM Further Compromised
Processing key uncovered....
Engadget notes that DRM hacker 'arnezami' over at the Doom9 forums has found the "processing key" used to decrypt the DRM on all HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc films. "Let's break this down for what it is: instead of needing individual keys for each and every high-definition film -- of which there are many -- the processing key can be used to unlock, decrypt, and backup every HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc film released so far." The war on keeping pirated HD content out of the hands of broadband users isn't going very well so far -- the only thing holding back increased HD piracy is bandwidth.
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CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN

CPUYODA

Member

Thank you.,,,

Thank the universe for Doom9.....

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY

MxxCon

Member

Re: Thank you.,,,

doom9 site and forum are for much more than just cracking drm
most video/audio/player developers post and collaborate there
they also have excellent video codecs comparison tests, ie is xvid better than divx better than x.246

CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN

CPUYODA

Member

Re: Thank you.,,,

I know,....I beta test JDobbs's Rebuild....
floydb1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA

floydb1982 to CPUYODA

Member

to CPUYODA
I Know what you mean. I use DVD Shrink to copy all of my favorite Miss Marple DVDs that I check out from the library. Although BBC does encrypt the DVD they produce I use DVD shrink to shrink 8.5 GB to 4.7 GB.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness

What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol?

karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Moscow, ID

karlmarx

Member

Re: Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness

The processing key is the Bob of the Alice and Bob crypto schema. In order to encrypt a disc, you need two things, a public key (alice) and a private key (alice). For Bob to decrypt something from alice, he needs to know Alice's public key (i.e. the HD-DVD). That's what the studios are looking to 'blacklist', so if a player is compromised, they could make the new dvd's NOT work with that player. Thus, every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray contains a section of 'disabled' players (public keys).

If what he said is correct, he's found alice's PRIVATE key. With that key, you don't need to care about the public key. EVERY DVD uses the private key, so you can decrypt everything.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

1 recommendation

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness

said by karlmarx:

The processing key is the Bob of the Alice and Bob crypto schema. In order to encrypt a disc, you need two things, a public key (alice) and a private key (alice). For Bob to decrypt something from alice, he needs to know Alice's public key (i.e. the HD-DVD). That's what the studios are looking to 'blacklist', so if a player is compromised, they could make the new dvd's NOT work with that player. Thus, every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray contains a section of 'disabled' players (public keys).

If what he said is correct, he's found alice's PRIVATE key. With that key, you don't need to care about the public key. EVERY DVD uses the private key, so you can decrypt everything.
I don't claim to be a crytologist, but I think I'm missing something from your explanation. In asymmetrical encryption, there are two keps. Private and public. Something is encrypted with one, and then decrypted with the other. The key that did the original encryption can't also be used to decrypt the cyphertext.
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude to vpoko

Member

to vpoko
said by vpoko:

What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol?
I can't remember the source of the information (Ed Felton maybe, at Freedom to Tinker?), but if you read the history of these DRM methods, it appears that some decisions have been made based on things such as how many circuit cards would be needed to implement the DRM - the circuitry for really robust DRM would take 2 ckt boards, but this would add cost and the decision was made to go with a one ckt board, less robust "protection" to keep costs down.

I'm not saying that's why this weakness occurred, just that these DRM schemes are so easily compromisable sometimes because of decisions like these.

peter_m
Premium Member
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC

peter_m to vpoko

Premium Member

to vpoko
Ever seen a downloadable movie before it was ever released in theatres???? Well, DRM is just one aspect. The problem also resides with industry insiders. A combination of DVD screeners and DVD masters end-up on the net....

The solution is not DRM. Just like for music, DRM hinders and limits the honest users and not the crooks. If the price is right, people will stop bothering with pirated copies... If you ask me, it's a shame to pay 25$ for movies like "click".

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

said by vpoko:

What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol?
But I'm just wondering about the DRM - this crack has nothing to do with masters or other unencrypted content.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

1 recommendation

dadkins

MVM

YAY!

So, where's my AnyBD driver?

Still though, at 25-50GB per movie... freakin HUGE ass files!

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

2 recommendations

exocet_cm

Premium Member

Re: YAY!

said by dadkins:

So, where's my AnyBD driver?

Still though, at 25-50GB per movie... freakin HUGE ass files!
This is why I am greatful for the available access to bonded T1s near my area.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Pirate515 to dadkins

Premium Member

to dadkins
said by dadkins:

So, where's my AnyBD driver?
In case you haven't read the news, SlySoft is actually working on HD-DVD decrypting software and is currently looking for beta testers. Not sure how soon before they begin working on something similar for Blue-Ray, but I am sure that eventually it will come.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Re: YAY!

I'm SO there!

thrillhaus
Premium Member
join:2003-12-26
Long Beach, CA

1 recommendation

thrillhaus

Premium Member

In the words of Nelson....

"Ha ha!"

bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL

bpx

Member

Re: In the words of Nelson....

HaHa.wav
3,130 bytes
said by thrillhaus:

"Ha ha!"
LMAO

cableties
Premium Member
join:2005-01-27

cableties

Premium Member

Cold war?

Who will run out of money first:

1.Consumer
2.Distributor
3.Producer
4.Pirate

Hmmm...economics of piracy, a thesis for a grad student...

NowVOIP
In the beginning there was POTS
join:2006-03-05
Round Lake, IL

NowVOIP

Member

Re: Cold war?

Hmmm....I would who would win! lol!

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

1 recommendation

RadioDoc to cableties

to cableties
said by cableties:

Who will run out of money first:

1.Consumer
2.Distributor
3.Producer
4.Pirate

Hmmm...economics of piracy, a thesis for a grad student...
Don't know about money, but if they start disabling already-purchased players, the consumer will run out of patience first...

guitarzan
Premium Member
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

guitarzan

Premium Member

Re: Cold war?

said by RadioDoc:

Don't know about money, but if they start disabling already-purchased players, the consumer will run out of patience first...
Excellent point and post RadioDoc.

When a couple of disabled units gets blazed at sales people, the way Nolan Ryan usta coulda throw smoke over homeplate. Then they'll get the message loud and clear.
George Kidd
join:2001-08-09
Vancouver, BC

George Kidd

Member

Cyphers

All encryption schemes these days are required to contain "backdoors". After all Big Brother wants to have an easy way to check for secret "terrorist" messages being sent through otherwise innocent media.

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium Member
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Michieru2

Premium Member

...

One processing key to rule them all :|

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

1 recommendation

TigerLord

Re: ...

Until 20mbit broadband connections are standard across the planet the distribution of Blu-Ray and HD content will be low profile...

MxxCon
join:1999-11-19
Brooklyn, NY

MxxCon

Member

Re: ...

3-15mbit connections, 20gig movie is an overnight download
so download size isn't a deterrent
what to do with them is..no affordable burners yet.

TigerLord

join:2002-06-09
Canada

TigerLord

Re: ...

blue-ray are more like 50GB ...

bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL

bpx

Member

Re: ...

From what I hear, most Blu Ray movies released already are on a 25gb disc, and if they are on a 50gb disc, they arent must bigger than 25gigs. It still wont take more than one overnight download.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Re: ...

Single layer BDs are 25GB, Dual layer BDs are 50GB.

Crank is 49,898,065,940 bytes.
Pearl Harbor is 47,568,993,406 bytes

Close enough to 50GB.
BIG ass file sizes

Stripped down to JUST the movies themselves you are looking at 21-29 GB average.
Playback can reach 40mbps+

*FOR ME* file sizes, at my current internet speed, dictates that sharing isn't going to happen.

bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL

bpx

Member

Re: ...

Not doubting you, but how did you find out the file sizes?

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA

dadkins

MVM

Re: ...

Two ways actually...
#1 This laptop has a BD drive.

#2 Blu-ray Forums... someone has a WAY bigger library than I do.

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

thender2 to TigerLord

Premium Member

to TigerLord
said by TigerLord:

blue-ray are more like 50GB ...
So what? That's four hours off of usenet.

It used to take me five hours to grab a full DVD + par2 files on DSL.

Pirate515
Premium Member
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY

Pirate515 to MxxCon

Premium Member

to MxxCon
said by MxxCon:

What to do with them is...no affordable burners yet.
Give it a few years, and prices will come down. DVD burners were also mad expensive too when they first came out: $500 - 1,000 for a 1x or 2x one. Now you can get one for as low as $30.

Thrudd
join:2004-06-21
Mississauga, ON

Thrudd

Member

Re: ...

Don't forget that the first CD format burners were in the 5-10K$ range ... and you made less dollars back then yes?

fgdjre
@optonline.net

fgdjre

Anon

I don't think it's internet bandwidth...

Internet bandwidth will always bottleneck somewhere. Broadband ISPs need to install Caching servers.

texans20
Premium Member
join:2002-09-28
Texas!

texans20

Premium Member

I Don't understand encryption

I have no idea how it works, zero. However I've seen crackers go in a defeat encryption on DVDs, HD DVDs, Blue-Ray, WiFi, etc. It seems to me encryption is pointless and if anyone wanted to access your info, be it the FBI,NSA,China, or a private person they can. SSL, TrueCrypt, etc are all crackable.

Someone help me out here, I'm not being sarcastic when I say I don't know. What's the difference between breaking the encryption on a DVD vs breaking the encryption used on packets via SSL or even an encrypted drive using TrueCrypt.

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dslextreme2
Premium Member
join:2001-02-23
Canoga Park, CA

dslextreme2

Premium Member

You are missing the point

I don't think the point of DRM and encryption is to keep out the hacker or even well educated computer person. The idea is to keep 95% of the public from duplicating and sharing the files. There is no need for a bulletproof prison, just a hurdle big enough to keep the casual user at bay.

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Warez_Zealot
join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

Warez_Zealot

Member

HD rips?

When will we start to see HD rips of movies? I know that aXXo makes great DVD rips of movies, but having a HD rip would look even better.

Harddrive
Proud American and Infidel since 1968.
Premium Member
join:2000-09-20
Fort Worth, TX

Harddrive

Premium Member

Re: HD rips?

they are already on Usenet if you know where to look.
thebulldan
join:2005-06-13
Bridgeport, PA

thebulldan to Warez_Zealot

Member

to Warez_Zealot
Everywhere. Not just Usenet.
jakroo99
Premium Member
join:2003-10-09
Riverside, CA

jakroo99

Premium Member

Compression

is it true that the 25gb rips ive been seeing on usenet and BT are already in a compressed form??? What I mean is DVD's for example are shrinked from 4.36gb to very good looking 700mb xvid rips imo...the hd rips we see...are they already compressed or would that defeat the whole purpose??? just curious as i am new to this HD thing...i still plan on rockin xvids for a long time

dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000

dr3yec

Member

Re: Compression

The new hd-dvd compression, like xvids. Is x264. I got a few movies and I am quite impressed.

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

1 recommendation

thender2

Premium Member

Just give up.

You're making a fool out of yourselves, and just alienating potential customers who are sick and tired of all these stupid limitations.

Ideally, they'd like HD-DVD and bluray to be a standard. If I can't make a lower quality copy of a few episodes of a tv show I watch for my PMP, that's it - the format is useless. If I can't use it the same was I can use DVDs, then I don't care about the quality, it's useless for me.

Thank usenet. Thank the people who, during this silly ordeal that will continue on and on, will continue to ensure it's possible HD content be playable on as many devices as possible, with the least limitations. Thank people who for no money are working to get you content better than what people who're being paid for get.

The protection doesn't work. It's a bottomless pit of money for whoever is shelling out the money to develop these ass-backwards protection schemes.
darrinjh
join:2000-07-23
Offutt A F B, NE

darrinjh

Member

Cost vs piracy

There is some pretty good discussion of piracy issues and encryption in this thread. I've enjoyed reading them. I think one thing that many people don't take into consideration is that if the cost of music CD or DVD movie is reasonable then the majority of people will not be motivated to make or obtain an illegal copy. This definitely holds true for me. I'd much rather buy a legal CD at a good price than spend the time it takes to locate the music and burn it to CD, then make & print a cover. As far as today's music goes there is so little out there that I would even want to buy, especially at the prices they want. If record labels and Hollywood want to reduce piracy, they should reduce prices. I'd bet they would be pleasantly surprised at the increase in sales and profits!
DJStarfox
join:2000-07-05
Orlando, FL

DJStarfox

Member

Root

Bow before Arnezami. He has root password of the DVD.

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