 
CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN | Thank you.,,, Thank the universe for Doom9..... | |
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CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN | Re: Thank you.,,, I know,....I beta test JDobbs's Rebuild.... 
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"In God We Trust,All Others Pay Cash" | |
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| floydb_1982
join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA | I Know what you mean. I use DVD Shrink to copy all of my favorite Miss Marple DVDs that I check out from the library. Although BBC does encrypt the DVD they produce I use DVD shrink to shrink 8.5 GB to 4.7 GB. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol? | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness The processing key is the Bob of the Alice and Bob crypto schema. In order to encrypt a disc, you need two things, a public key (alice) and a private key (alice). For Bob to decrypt something from alice, he needs to know Alice's public key (i.e. the HD-DVD). That's what the studios are looking to 'blacklist', so if a player is compromised, they could make the new dvd's NOT work with that player. Thus, every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray contains a section of 'disabled' players (public keys).
If what he said is correct, he's found alice's PRIVATE key. With that key, you don't need to care about the public key. EVERY DVD uses the private key, so you can decrypt everything.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Wow, I didn't realize it had such a glaring weakness said by karlmarx  :The processing key is the Bob of the Alice and Bob crypto schema. In order to encrypt a disc, you need two things, a public key (alice) and a private key (alice). For Bob to decrypt something from alice, he needs to know Alice's public key (i.e. the HD-DVD). That's what the studios are looking to 'blacklist', so if a player is compromised, they could make the new dvd's NOT work with that player. Thus, every HD-DVD and Blu-Ray contains a section of 'disabled' players (public keys). If what he said is correct, he's found alice's PRIVATE key. With that key, you don't need to care about the public key. EVERY DVD uses the private key, so you can decrypt everything. I don't claim to be a crytologist, but I think I'm missing something from your explanation. In asymmetrical encryption, there are two keps. Private and public. Something is encrypted with one, and then decrypted with the other. The key that did the original encryption can't also be used to decrypt the cyphertext. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by vpoko :What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol? I can't remember the source of the information (Ed Felton maybe, at Freedom to Tinker?), but if you read the history of these DRM methods, it appears that some decisions have been made based on things such as how many circuit cards would be needed to implement the DRM - the circuitry for really robust DRM would take 2 ckt boards, but this would add cost and the decision was made to go with a one ckt board, less robust "protection" to keep costs down.
I'm not saying that's why this weakness occurred, just that these DRM schemes are so easily compromisable sometimes because of decisions like these. | |
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peter_m
Premium
join:2005-07-13
Canada, QC
| Ever seen a downloadable movie before it was ever released in theatres???? Well, DRM is just one aspect. The problem also resides with industry insiders. A combination of DVD screeners and DVD masters end-up on the net....
The solution is not DRM. Just like for music, DRM hinders and limits the honest users and not the crooks. If the price is right, people will stop bothering with pirated copies... If you ask me, it's a shame to pay 25$ for movies like "click". | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| said by vpoko :What's the purpose of a "processing key"? Why introduce a weakness like that into their protocol? But I'm just wondering about the DRM - this crack has nothing to do with masters or other unencrypted content. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| YAY! So, where's my AnyBD driver?
Still though, at 25-50GB per movie... freakin HUGE ass files!
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
| said by dadkins :So, where's my AnyBD driver? In case you haven't read the news, SlySoft is actually working on HD-DVD decrypting software and is currently looking for beta testers. Not sure how soon before they begin working on something similar for Blue-Ray, but I am sure that eventually it will come.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: YAY! I'm SO there!  | |
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thrillhaus
Premium
join:2003-12-26
Tucson, AZ
clubs: | In the words of Nelson.... "Ha ha!" | |
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL
| Re: In the words of Nelson.... said by thrillhaus :"Ha ha!" LMAO
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Nice guys finish last. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Newtown, PA | Cold war? Who will run out of money first:
1.Consumer
2.Distributor
3.Producer
4.Pirate
Hmmm...economics of piracy, a thesis for a grad student... | |
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NowVOIP
In the beginning there was POTS
join:2006-03-05
Round Lake, IL | Re: Cold war? Hmmm....I would who would win! lol! | |
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| RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by cableties :Who will run out of money first: 1.Consumer 2.Distributor 3.Producer 4.Pirate Hmmm...economics of piracy, a thesis for a grad student... Don't know about money, but if they start disabling already-purchased players, the consumer will run out of patience first...
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Toolmaster of La Grange.
For "Pompous Windbag", see 419381 | |
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guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA
·epix
|  Re: Cold war?
said by RadioDoc :Don't know about money, but if they start disabling already-purchased players, the consumer will run out of patience first... Excellent point and post RadioDoc.
When a couple of disabled units gets blazed at sales people, the way Nolan Ryan usta coulda throw smoke over homeplate. Then they'll get the message loud and clear.
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Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power. | |
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George Kidd
join:2001-08-09
Vancouver, BC
| Cyphers All encryption schemes these days are required to contain "backdoors". After all Big Brother wants to have an easy way to check for secret "terrorist" messages being sent through otherwise innocent media. | |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL | ... One processing key to rule them all :| | |
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TigerLord
Resident Pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Chicoutimi | Re: ... Until 20mbit broadband connections are standard across the planet the distribution of Blu-Ray and HD content will be low profile... | |
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TigerLord
Resident Pentaxian
Premium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Chicoutimi | Re: ... blue-ray are more like 50GB ... | |
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL | Re: ... From what I hear, most Blu Ray movies released already are on a 25gb disc, and if they are on a 50gb disc, they arent must bigger than 25gigs. It still wont take more than one overnight download.
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Nice guys finish last. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: ... Single layer BDs are 25GB, Dual layer BDs are 50GB.
Crank is 49,898,065,940 bytes.
Pearl Harbor is 47,568,993,406 bytes
Close enough to 50GB.
BIG ass file sizes
Stripped down to JUST the movies themselves you are looking at 21-29 GB average.
Playback can reach 40mbps+
*FOR ME* file sizes, at my current internet speed, dictates that sharing isn't going to happen.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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bpx
join:2003-01-25
Saint Augustine, FL | Re: ... Not doubting you, but how did you find out the file sizes?
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Nice guys finish last. | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
| Re: ... Two ways actually...
#1 This laptop has a BD drive.
#2 Blu-ray Forums... someone has a WAY bigger library than I do.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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Pirate515
Premium
join:2001-01-22
Brooklyn, NY
| said by MxxCon :What to do with them is...no affordable burners yet. Give it a few years, and prices will come down. DVD burners were also mad expensive too when they first came out: $500 - 1,000 for a 1x or 2x one. Now you can get one for as low as $30.
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Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies...
A MESSAGE to the RIAA and the MPAA: You shouldn't wound what you can't kill... | |
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Thrudd
join:2004-06-21
Mississauga, ON | Re: ... Don't forget that the first CD format burners were in the 5-10K$ range ... and you made less dollars back then yes? | |
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fgdjre
@optonline.net | I don't think it's internet bandwidth... Internet bandwidth will always bottleneck somewhere. Broadband ISPs need to install Caching servers. | |
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texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| I Don't understand encryption I have no idea how it works, zero. However I've seen crackers go in a defeat encryption on DVDs, HD DVDs, Blue-Ray, WiFi, etc. It seems to me encryption is pointless and if anyone wanted to access your info, be it the FBI,NSA,China, or a private person they can. SSL, TrueCrypt, etc are all crackable.
Someone help me out here, I'm not being sarcastic when I say I don't know. What's the difference between breaking the encryption on a DVD vs breaking the encryption used on packets via SSL or even an encrypted drive using TrueCrypt. | |
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| phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
| Re: I Don't understand encryption The easiest way to think of encryption is to think of it as a math equation.
Take y=x*2.
In this example:
- x is the information we want to encrypt,
- y is the encrypted information
- *2 'encryption algorithm.'
So, if I needed to send you the number 5 --> y=5*2 --> y=10. Obviously, to decrypt the message, you simply use the equation x=y/2 --> x=10/2 --> x=5.
In this example, if the hacker doesn't know the encryption method, we are safe. However, once he figures out we are simply multiplying by two, the hacker has cracked our encryption scheme. As such, the hacker would be attacking the encryption scheme. Needless to say, this method of encryption isn't very secure. So, we can make it slightly harder by changing the encryption equation to:
y=x*c
- x is the information we want to encrypt
- y is the encrypted information
- multiplication is the encryption algorithm
- c is the password (or key)
This method is more robust because we can change the value of c each time we send information. Obviously, we have to agree upon what c will be before hand. In this example, the hacker can figure out our encryption scheme (multiplication) but that knowledge is useless to him if he doesn't know what c is. However, depending on how large a number c is, it may not take long for the hacker to simply correctly guess what c is. In this case, the hacker would be attacking the encryption key.
In the real world, the encryption algorithms are more complex and the keys (passwords) are also much more complex, but the basic principle should hold true. Most encryption algorithms are open so that anyone can critique them and ensure there isn't a fundamental flaw in the algorithm. A flawed encryption algorithm would be one where simply having the knowledge of the algorithm would allow the hacker to crack the information.
Since most encryption algorithms in use today are very robust, hackers attack the keys (passwords) that are used to encrypt the information. As I understand it, this is what happened in this news story. The keys used to encrypt the content on the HD-DVDs and Blueray Discs has been discovered, which should allow anyone to decrypt the information.
Hope this helps. | |
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| | fenix_jn
join:2006-12-28
Miami, FL | Re: I Don't understand encryption It does | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Encryption is weak in media formats because the player has to decode in real time, now a computer file that you dont want someone to see can use much stronger keys and scrambling because it doesnt have to work in real time as the viewer can wait for that word file to be unencrypted. but you wouldnt want a movie to miss a beat because a cheap HD-DVD player had a crappy processor.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Fluker
join:2005-04-07
West Lafayette, IN
| The difference is that the key for decryption is not hidden in the media in the case of SSL and truecrypt. With SSL, the server basically says "scramble everything with this key" and the only other key that will un-encode the message never leaves the servers possession. This makes SSL very secure because by the time the key can be discovered, the session is likely to be over.
Media distributors on the other hand have a problem. They need to ship their content and the key that unwraps the data together. So what they basically do is encrypt the disc key for the movie and then only pass out the key to access the disc key to people they trust to bury it deeply within a player.
Before, when certain titles were able to be unlocked, this is because it was discovered where the key used to decrypt a particular disc could be found.
What we have now is the key that unwraps the key for us. It's no longer required to look into the guts of a player and grab what we need from there because we can do that ourselves.
Or at least thats what I believe I have read in all of this. | |
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dslextreme
Premium,VIP
join:2001-02-23
Canoga Park, CA
| You are missing the point I don't think the point of DRM and encryption is to keep out the hacker or even well educated computer person. The idea is to keep 95% of the public from duplicating and sharing the files. There is no need for a bulletproof prison, just a hurdle big enough to keep the casual user at bay. | |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: You are missing the point Only one person needs to crack the DVD and share it on the net. Then the casual users can just download an unencumbered version. And that is why DRM is so idiotic. ONE person has to crack a CD or DVD and it's out there on the net with no restrictions forever and ever.
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Check out Folding@Home - Join Team Helix and find a cure! | |
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dslextreme
Premium,VIP
join:2001-02-23
Canoga Park, CA | Re: You are missing the point I understand your point.
My point is that my father can not rip a copy and give it to his friend, nor is he likely to download it. | |
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| | | Capharnaum
join:2006-06-19
Montreal, QC
| Re: You are missing the point said by dslextreme :I understand your point. My point is that my father can not rip a copy and give it to his friend, nor is he likely to download it. The point is that type of piracy isn't the one hurting the big companies. In other words, DRM mostly annoys casual Joes but not the real copy machines. | |
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| waka
join:2002-06-01
Tacoma, WA
·Speakeasy
| said by dslextreme :I don't think the point of DRM and encryption is to keep out the hacker or even well educated computer person. The idea is to keep 95% of the public from duplicating and sharing the files. There is no need for a bulletproof prison, just a hurdle big enough to keep the casual user at bay. Why do I need to be kept out of backing up my legit copy of a movie for personal use? Why does someone get to tell me where and how I can play a movie that I purchased? and where do you get that 95% of the public shares its files? Do you also believe there were WMDs in Iraq? One of the biggest problems with DRM is that it also prevents or makes it way too difficult for the general public from making a perfectly LEGIT personal copy, something that is called Fair Use. Heck DRM can even prevent you from watching a movie you bought. What is that about?? DRM assumes that everyone is going to share the files illegally which is a flawed way of thinking and a poor way to thank the paying consumer. I'm just greatful that there is now a way for me to make legit copies of my HD/BR movies so I can file away the originals. Anyone who has young kids or pets will know what i mean. | |
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dslextreme
Premium,VIP
join:2001-02-23
Canoga Park, CA
| Re: You are missing the point I'm not saying that you should not have that right. Just pointing out that the companies that employ DRM and encryption understand that their products can be cracked. Their main motivation is to prevent the average joe from easily duplicating and sharing their products.
Whether that's righteous or not is a different argument altogether. | |
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Warez_Zealot
Rural land of the rising sun
join:2006-04-19
japan
| HD rips? When will we start to see HD rips of movies? I know that aXXo makes great DVD rips of movies, but having a HD rip would look even better. 
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The meek shall inherit the earth but don't forget the poor are the ones who inherit the debt. | |
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Harddrive
Premium
join:2000-09-20
Norwich, CT | Re: HD rips? they are already on Usenet if you know where to look. | |
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| thebulldan
join:2005-06-13
Bridgeport, PA | Everywhere. Not just Usenet. | |
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jakroo99
Premium
join:2003-10-09
Riverside, CA
clubs:
| Compression is it true that the 25gb rips ive been seeing on usenet and BT are already in a compressed form??? What I mean is DVD's for example are shrinked from 4.36gb to very good looking 700mb xvid rips imo...the hd rips we see...are they already compressed or would that defeat the whole purpose??? just curious as i am new to this HD thing...i still plan on rockin xvids for a long time | |
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dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000 | Re: Compression | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY
| Just give up. You're making a fool out of yourselves, and just alienating potential customers who are sick and tired of all these stupid limitations.
Ideally, they'd like HD-DVD and bluray to be a standard. If I can't make a lower quality copy of a few episodes of a tv show I watch for my PMP, that's it - the format is useless. If I can't use it the same was I can use DVDs, then I don't care about the quality, it's useless for me.
Thank usenet. Thank the people who, during this silly ordeal that will continue on and on, will continue to ensure it's possible HD content be playable on as many devices as possible, with the least limitations. Thank people who for no money are working to get you content better than what people who're being paid for get.
The protection doesn't work. It's a bottomless pit of money for whoever is shelling out the money to develop these ass-backwards protection schemes.
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The Problem With Music.
Our Rationale
Time to rewrite the DMCA. | |
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darrinjh
join:2000-07-23
Offutt A F B, NE
| Cost vs piracy There is some pretty good discussion of piracy issues and encryption in this thread. I've enjoyed reading them. I think one thing that many people don't take into consideration is that if the cost of music CD or DVD movie is reasonable then the majority of people will not be motivated to make or obtain an illegal copy. This definitely holds true for me. I'd much rather buy a legal CD at a good price than spend the time it takes to locate the music and burn it to CD, then make & print a cover. As far as today's music goes there is so little out there that I would even want to buy, especially at the prices they want. If record labels and Hollywood want to reduce piracy, they should reduce prices. I'd bet they would be pleasantly surprised at the increase in sales and profits! | |
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DJStarfox
join:2000-07-05
Orlando, FL | Root Bow before Arnezami. He has root password of the DVD. | |
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SpyderCKE
We call that the Dennis Miller Ratio
Premium
join:2000-10-26
Milwaukee, WI
| Re: Root Re: Size being a tricky issue, I can download a BR movie in a day or two, which is about the time NetFlix would send it to me. Now, since I've become lazy, I don't make copies anymore, in addition to the fact I realize I just don't watch a lot of movies twice. Anyways, I download the movie, hook my laptop up using DVI and digital out for the movie, watch it in wonderful HD, then delete it when I'm done. If I like the movie, I have 500GB of server space that it can borrow until I've had my way with it.
Size is only a problem if you like to archive, or distribute, but can't manage an external drive for some reason.. This just makes me laugh that they are outright being worked over like this.
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See you on:
AA:SF - [69th SAG] SpyderCKE
XBL - H2 - eTard | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
| The Snowball Effect With HDDs becoming cheaper and cheaper every day, and broadband speeds getting faster (albeit a slow roll out) it's getting more and more feasible for people to be able to download these movies and not think twice about it.
I know it'd take me about 6 hours to download a 50GB hdd movie, and as was said, it's just an overnight thing and when you wake up, you're done. No worse than waiting overnight for a torrent to finish.
Now all we need to do is wait for HD-DVD and BR-DVD burners to come down in price.
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»www.myspace.com/intranet
I once had a dream that Sean Connery stayed at my apt., and he had his laptop with Win98 on it, and he knew how to connect to my wireless network. I don't do drugs  | |
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dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA | Re: The Snowball Effect Drives?
Blanks need to come down in price! | |
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furlonium
Computer Over? Virus equals Very Yes?
join:2002-05-08
Bethlehem, PA
| Re: The Snowball Effect said by dadkins :Drives? Blanks need to come down in price! Their prices seem to coincide with one another. Once the HD/BR DVD burners aren't $500-$600 anymore, and more around $100 or so, then the media follows.
I'm just wondering how long it'll take.
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»www.myspace.com/intranet
I once had a dream that Sean Connery stayed at my apt., and he had his laptop with Win98 on it, and he knew how to connect to my wireless network. I don't do drugs | |
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HD-DVD, BluRay DRM Further Compromised
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