  RideRedVista needs a popup blocker for VistaPremium
join:2005-06-18
USA | Looks to me that... ...telcos were able to grab more customers (compared to cable during the same time period) NOT by faster speeds but by lower prices.
Speed isn't everything contrary to Brian "BMW" Robert's claims.
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There's only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. | |
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 |  thender2Glamour ProfessionPremium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY | Re: Looks to me that... A BMW doesn't stop driving after a certain amount of time compared to a hyundai because you went over an unspecified daily mileage limit.
FTTH like FIOS > DSL > cable > supercapped FTTH(20/20 with 100 gig cap nonsense) > fake FTTH(fision) | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Looks to me that... said by thender2:A BMW doesn't stop driving after a certain amount of time compared to a hyundai because you went over an unspecified daily mileage limit. FTTH like FIOS > DSL > cable > supercapped FTTH(20/20 with 100 gig cap nonsense) > fake FTTH(fision) Why is fision fake? (noob question) | |
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| | REPONSE I agree that speed isn't everything. If this is true, then it's a matter of time before Verizon FIOS comes into my area. SO LONG Comcrap. | |
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|  RickPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT | Re: I was recently... I fail to see how DSL is the better value versus cable.
If someone subscribes to AT&T's 3000k service, (that is really 2.4 in disguise factoring in the overhead)..
they're going to pay 25.00 per month for it.
Add to that the 20.00 per month phone line that someone HAS to have in order to get the service..and you are now at 2.00 more per month than Comcasts 6000/384k standard service (that with powerboost gives up to 12,000 +/- at times).
You are getting over twice the speeds..and many times up to FIVE times the speed of that DSL connection for less money.
Take that same scenario up to AT&T's 6,000k dsl (5200k in disguise) connection (for those that would even qualify)..and you are now at 34.95 + the phone line...or MORE than Comcasts standard tier pricing.
The telco's dsl is only cheaper because their required, way overpriced..landline business is subsidizing it.
And, it's only cheaper because people are in most instances, getting far less speeds than they would with cable.
By using Vonage and dumping AT&T and their traditional landline/long distance service..I now save 50 to 60.00 per month just on that alone.
This savings single handedly pays for my entire Comcast 8000/768k connection each month (52.95 for this level of service).
And so now, for this price, I get speeds with powerboost of up to 20,000k on the download side.
This package simply blows away any dsl/telco/long distance package you want to throw at it in terms of speeds and pricing.
I think that the majority of cable customers today have thought this whole thing through and have found that cable really does provide the speeds..and value overall..particularly when packaged properly with a voip service as well.
I realize that there may be some who don't subscribe to cable tv for whom cable HSI would be more and, other variations to the above that might make dsl make a little more sense, but overall when you factor in the required pots line..dsl just comes out to be one expensive service for the speeds compared to cable most of the time.
I think the telco's could stand to gain quite a bit more business if they would just drop the phone requirement.
Undoubtedly some cable customers would then migrate to dsl and find that a 3,000k 25.00 connection was sufficient for them.
And, conversely, I really don't understand why most cable companies don't venture off into the lower speed tiers and compete more effectively with the slower speed dsl tiers.
They could undoubtedly take many customers from the telco's.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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| | | | Re: I was recently... You also forget that cable providers also charge for NOT having cable TV from them, with Charter its $10 extra a month on top of HSI, I heard with some its $15-20. | |
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| | | RickPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT | Re: I was recently... said by markopoleo:You also forget that cable providers also charge for NOT having cable TV from them, with Charter its $10 extra a month on top of HSI, I heard with some its $15-20. I didn't forget. I did mention that.
"I realize that there may be some who don't subscribe to cable tv for whom cable HSI would be more "
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
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| | | | | | Re: I was recently... I never get tired of this argument from the Cable fans. Naked at&t DSL 29.99 is a terrible deal. Comcast naked HSI 57.99. Obviously 58 30. | |
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| | | | |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: I was recently... said by Yauch:I never get tired of this argument from the Cable fans. Naked at&t DSL 29.99 is a terrible deal. Comcast naked HSI 57.99. Obviously 58 30. Ok, let me go sign up for naked 768Kbps DSL for $29.99.
Oh wait, I'll just go sign up for RR Lite, which is twice the speed for 4 cents less.
»www.timewarnercable.com/piedmont···ing.html
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Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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| |  SteveConIBEW 2222 Boston, MAPremium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA | What about naked DSL - a POTS line is not always required. You forgot to mention the caps you get w/ cable - and the slowdown when all your neighbors are online, too.
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United we bargain, divided we beg. | |
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| | |  JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | Re: I was recently... All your neighbors don't have to be online in order to experience slowdowns - a single user can cause degradation. | |
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| | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by SteveCon:What about naked DSL - a POTS line is not always required. You forgot to mention the caps you get w/ cable - and the slowdown when all your neighbors are online, too. My cable isn't capped and I don't notice slowdowns. Those problems have been resolved.
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Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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| | | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: I was recently... said by Matt:said by SteveCon:What about naked DSL - a POTS line is not always required. You forgot to mention the caps you get w/ cable - and the slowdown when all your neighbors are online, too. My cable isn't capped and I don't notice slowdowns. Those problems have been resolved. Oh you get 38000/10000 on your cable line? if not, you are capped.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | | Reviews:
 ·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| You can experience the same slow downs with DSL. The only difference is DSL puts the shared line part at a different place than cable. With cable they can easily add new customers to a node and up the fiber speed to the node or split it. With DSL they actually have to order new equipment and wait to install it at times. | |
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| | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... said by hottboiinnc:...With cable they can easily add new customers to a node and up the fiber speed to the node or split it... I don't think it's such an easy thing to do. If it is, why do cable companies terminate customers? | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... Actually prove that they have terminated customers. Customers receiving notices is one thing. Them actually doing it is another. Just because Comcast sends these letters out do not really mean anything but to scare the customer. But AT&T does the same thing with Cingular they'll terminate you for roaming too much or what ever their reason maybe because you don't make them "enough" on your contract.
and Cable doesn't do it because like all Bells- They don't have to. | |
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| | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | Re: I was recently... If you want "proof" that cable companies actually terminate people, perhaps you should contact Frank. I think he's collecting names:
»comcastissue.blogspot.com/ | |
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| | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
2 edits | Re: I was recently... Another Blog. Just because someone types it a News channel airs it especially Fox; its true. Just because you blog does not make it real.
I want solid proof. A threat letter and actually doing it is two different things.
And this from the CBS article:
The family says they have been listening to Portuguese radio, down loading movies, and playing games on line, so, maybe they used the internet more than most people.
How do you know he wasn't downloading so much that it actually affected others on the node. Movies take up a lot of gigs to download.
Last Add:
This is not true! Comcast offered frank a business account, which frank declined: why? Because Frank says it would cost $10,000 to install, then up to $2,000 per month.
Has anyone actually seen the prices for Comcast Business Internet? It doesn't cost $10,000 to install and $2,000 per month.
But hell TWC Mid-Ohio RR has bandwidth usages for their RR Biz class customers. Its posted in their TOS and AUP but doesn't state what they are. | |
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| | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... said by hottboiinnc:How do you know he wasn't downloading so much that it actually affected others on the node. Well, that was my point - a single person can cause degradation on a cable plant. And it's apparently not so easy to upgrade, or cable companies would do it instead of terminating their customers.
I could dig up "proof" of this policy (actual letters have been posted here many times), but why? I haven't kept my finger on the pulse of all cable companies but Comcast freely and publicly admits to the policy. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... The letters don't mean anything. A threat is only a threat.
And for a letter posted I can create a letter and say its from Time Warner and post it and call news stations up and report everything anyone will be willing to listen. And we all know how much the media likes to make a bigger issue out of something than it is.
but for Frank if he doesnt like it he should get a T-1 and share it with his neighbors just like anyone else that doesn't like their ISP's policies.
But why don't Telco's do anything about their networks for dsl; they don't have to. Until now they weren't worried about anything until the Cable Co's started taking their customers away because of prices on Digital Phone. | |
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| | | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... Sure, you can create a letter. But can you create quotes from a Comcast spokesperson?
Comcast admittedly terminates their customers. It seems the only way cable can win the "bandwidth wars" is to prevent their customers from consuming too much.
btw - Frank's "business" use consisted of a few dozen emails per month. The bulk of his usage was for "entertainment" purposes. But his "entertainment" usage proved to be too much for a cable system to handle. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... He is what most business call a "not profit customer" He costs them more money than what he's worth.
The cable system can handle more bandwidth then you think. Remember its all fiber up to the node. Bandwidth is pretty much already there it just depends on if they want you to use it.
The thing is with CC terminating customers there is not an actual way to prove they have terminated anyone but Frank. If they actually did. Most people would receive that letter and change ISPs right away. | |
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| | | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD | Re: I was recently... Comcast admits it publicly. Why do you need any further proof?
Cable system are capable of handling the needs of a community when they stop terminating customers. Not a minute before. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... Because like i said what they say and what they do are 2 different things. There is not any actual document from Comcast that says they have disconnected somewhere. They basically reserve the right as well as any other ISP does. Don't you know all major companies lie?
Cable systems are capable of handling by far more than what a neighborhood/community needs. Remember its built with Fiber. Not a 100+year old copper telephone line. | |
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| | | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... An HFC (hybrid fiber coax) is only partly built of fiber. If it were all fiber, Comcast wouldn't need to terminate customers, and other cable providers wouldn't need to set consumption limits or throttle customers.
So until Comcast publicly recinds this policy, they're network can't reasonably be considered capable of meeting the needs of a community. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... The fiber means there is fiber all the way to the neighborhood. Didn't you know that? thats what the Fiber part means. Also thats is why cable companies put their little cable boxes on corners of streets that have the power meter. So they can convert the fiber optic to coax. | |
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| | | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... Don't confuse amps with nodes.
HFC plants are fiber to the node. Nodes can have many amp cascades on them (generally depends on the limits set by the franchise - our system has a limit of 8 amps per cascade). Anyone who's beyond the node, which is the vast majority of customers, is not connected directly to fiber.
An HFC plant is obviously inferior to an FTTP plant, but it's inferior to the aging copper plant too - Telco's don't need to enforce heavy-handed policies to limit consumption. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... The only one that sends the letters or says they limit usage that is known is Comcast you can't say that everyone does it.
You don't know if a telco doesn't do it. Just because its not posted or hits the media doesn't mean its not done.
HFC is a state-of-the-art system it has years left on it. Telco's are the only ones worrying about if their networks can handle everything. You don't see a cable company going around bullying cities and towns to offer services or see the cable company in DC buying what ever in the hell they want. And the Node is in the same box. Everything in that neighborhood connects to that box.
FTTP can't be that big of a deal for telco's since VZ is the only one putting it out on a large scale and hell even they are starting to slow down on putting it out. Cable companies will always have the upper hand. They have been in the video business a lot longer, they can shove through more data on their network and fiber is already a few hundred feet from each customer. it wouldn't take much to for TWC or Comcast to deploy a FTTP network. | |
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| | | | | | | | | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: I was recently... I never said everyone sends "the letters". As far as I know only Comcast does. I don't follow other cable companies too closely since only one cable company serves me, but I am aware that other cable companies limit consumption in various ways - Cox states their limits up front, and I think they charge for overages, Optimum throttles your connection if they feel you've consumed too much.
We could argue whether HFC is "state-of-the-art" or not, or whether FTTP is a "big deal" or not, but either way, HFC can't as robust as DSL or FTTP since cable companies are the only ones imposing consumption limits. If it wouldn't take much, perhaps TWC or Comcast should consider FTTP. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: I was recently... Why should Comcast, TWC and Cox or any other cable company consider FTTP? Why spend money on something you don't need to? There is very little competition in 99.9% of all cable markets combined. The need to upgrade something they just did a few years ago is crazy. Fiber maybe the way of the future but is not right now. Their network can be upgraded as needed. DOCSIS was built that way and thats the reason fiber is so far out in the field. They have the upper hand no matter what. | |
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| | | | | | | | |
See 11 replies to this post |
| | | | | | | | | | | Slow?! slow putting it out huh. backup your claim sir. I dont have the link but the recent numbers i read (on this site iirc) were steadily increasing presence in states already rolled out as well as introducing more and more states. They are the only ones also because they are one of the few that can afford such a massive rollout. Slow. you guys are funny. | |
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| | cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX | said by Rick:And, conversely, I really don't understand why most cable companies don't venture off into the lower speed tiers and compete more effectively with the slower speed dsl tiers. They could undoubtedly take many customers from the telco's. It is simple, they dont want $45 customers turning into $25 dollar customers. Most consumers have little need for the fastest internet available. | |
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| | | | | Re: I was recently... Isn't the SBMC in limited areas with Comcast in the rest? | |
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| | | | | | Re: I was recently... I punched in my street address and zip code on the comcast.com prequal system and it says Comcast does not serve it.
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defcon888@gmail.com
send me spam! | |
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1 edit | Re: I was recently... that address must be only serviced by the city then. Also try TWC's site. www.timewarnercable.com | |
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| | Upload Not the upload war(hope there will be one). | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Upload said by DSLupload :
Not the upload war(hope there will be one).
Not anytime soon. As for DSL its not the companies but technology limits that allow for more than 896kbps upload.
cable will never be generous with the upload speeds(unless you're in a FIOS area)
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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| | JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Upload Verizon hasn't been terribly generous with FiOS upload speeds yet, though the presence of VZ Fiber does seem to have prompted the cable company to offer tiers with higher advertised upload speeds.
I wonder if there's any truth to the recent rumor about a new FiOS tier with 5MB upload for $45... »[northeast] Ummm..did DE get an Upload increase? | |
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 NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | Bottom Line On This Arguement Who owns the circuits that ties your network together?
Telco...
There you go.
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Ubuntu Tips »www.ubuntutips.org | |
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| | | Re: Bottom Line On This Arguement That's becoming less and less the case all of the time. The 2 largest cable companies own their own dark fiber, and light it with their own equipment.
They are not totally independent of telco circuits at this time, but they're working towards that. Just about the only telco circuits that they have are circuits for external peering. | |
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| MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | said by NOCMan:Who owns the circuits that ties your network together? Telco... There you go. Nope. Most placed I go from ATDN to Level3 to my destination.
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Use the OS tool for the job. | |
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| | | | Re: Bottom Line On This Arguement and Google is a peer to ATDN. So everything you access from Google never leaves the actual TWC network since TW owns ATDN from AOL. Many others also peer with ATDN as well. | |
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| | Speed is already in place I think the next upgrade needed will be the ability to handle traffic loads-and which model now handles that situation? | |
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 plkLil' Duffer Burger BarnPremium
join:2002-04-20
Ogden, IA | guessing what he said I'm going to guess what he is saying.
The phone company is a day late and a dollar short. Fios aside, the Bells answer (vdsl flavors) will fall short of what cable already has. In 2009 when analog TV goes bye bye, the cables will find it easy to do away with analog and at the same time shift the blame. This will free up a ton of bandwidth with little to no costs. They will need to shell out some digital converters. Something they have wanted for years.
So then cable will have some added bandwidth for HDTV and more bandwidth for HSI before even rolling out DOCSIS 3.0.
Meanwhile, the Bells solution is half azzed just to try and keep up. ie VDSL etc. Many folks have mentioned this method will not cover multiple TV homes and still allow a fast Internet connection. FTTH, the only real solution for the Bells will be in short supply and take years for the Bells to deploy. Like I have said for years, if the Bells don't deploy FTTH or some serious innovation saves them, they are done. The fools should of went balls to the wall deploying FTTH in 2002 before VoIP took off. Now they are offering DSL at a discount to just say in the game. This isn't going to solve a damn thing but keep the shareholders happy until the bottom falls out of it.
From my prospective, the Bells are damn near doomed. If they don't deploy FTTH and damn soon, they will have little cash flow or capital left to really do so in a meaningful way to save their butt. TV isn't going to be a saving cash cow especially the way they are doing it. ie half azzed technology with lack of bandwidth. Poor lines and all the work involved to share a hand full of homes. Its just not worth trying to milk a old copper system for no real gain and more then likely a business failure. Unless they come up with 100mbps via copper fast.
Like others have mentioned, the Bells will get their heads out of their ___ and see "its fiber or die". And it maybe to late. FIOS is going to save one company if shareholders tough it out for the ride.
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Thermaltake 2000a/Asus P4C-e/p4 3.4/ocz3500 2x512/WD.2x200g/raptor2x74 raid 0/ATI 9600/APC sua 1500/Logitech z-680/ Samsung 213t LCD/MX 1000 | |
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| Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
4 edits | Re: guessing what he said The problem with your analysis is that DSL is just fine for most internet users. Which explains why the telco's continue to sign more customers than the cable companies every quarter. I do agree that in 5 - 10 years telcos had better have FTTH to all the major MSA's, but they're far from "damn near doomed".
DSL is the voip of HSI. It's the cheap alternative, that works just about as good. You wouldn't want to run a small business multi line customer service center off HSI voip, just like you would want to serve online software sales off of a 3mb DSL line when a 8mb HSI line is available. (actually that's a terrible analogy because their U/L are probably the same, but I'm sure you could think of something that greater DL is useful for) Sure you COULD do either, but one is definitely superior to the other under limited, power-user, circumstances.
As for TV, well as you said, there's no money to be made here.  | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
·Time Warner Cable
| Re: guessing what he said Telco's would be better if they started buying cable companies like Charter or RCN or even WOW. They have the content handled; a FTTC network and in most places phone as well.
But the only one that has managed to do this so far is Cinci Bell and not destroy it like AT&T their old ATT Broadband did. | |
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| | plkLil' Duffer Burger BarnPremium
join:2002-04-20
Ogden, IA | I disagree
Sure, the Bells are adding cheap DSL like mad. But they are also bleeding land lines nearly as fast. I'm going to guess that providing DSL has a higher cost then providing POTS (telephone). So this gain is damn near null. No real increase in income. Especially for new dslam deployments are involved.
Meanwhile VoIP is cutting into local phone service and long distance. Long distance charges are damn near a thing of the past or headed that way.
Couple this with the percentage of young customers who are using "cell phone only" for local and long distance calls. No land line needed. So they buy cable TV or dish and cut the phoneline.
Additionally,you assume the Internet and its usage rate or bandwidth is static. Frankly I see a whole new generation of bandwidth intensive applications headed our way. We now have the X Box 360 (and others) on the net and I imagine HDTV web cams are coming soon. (surprised they are not here now) HDTV movie previews, movie downloads, better gaming. The list goes on.....
I see all this adding up faster then 5-10 years down the road. Sure, the cheap light users will continue, but not at a rate to save the day. Even this group will find reasons to use more bandwidth. So the question is, will 8 megs after HDTV via vDSL save the day? They still have to install this even for the light users in order to offer HDTV. So that COST is still THERE.
Business lines: The Bells have plenty, but those alone will not support a the bleeding monster especially if they go the vDSL route and all these other factors mentioned here and my last thread play out. ie When cable gets the analog spectrum freed and DOCSIS 3.0 is deployed. They will go after the Business market.
Since VDSL seems to being deployed and a snails pace, I am assuming just this effort will take them 5 years. I really don't see them pulling out all the stops like they should.
With that in mind, in 5 years about the time the Bells have Vdsl deployed, the cables will be offering 30 megs. Maybe even more. By then they will have VoIP much more stable and reliable. And they are going to be able to do all this far cheaper then what the Bells need to shell out.
This should lead the Cables to be able to beat the low cost dsl. Cables will be offering the 8 megs the Bells offer as their starting package for 14.95. The Bells can't pay for VDSL at that price.
The Bells are not DOOMED today, but the stage starts now. Sure they can hang on for 5-10 years. But they sure won't be a big player if they go the vDSL route unless some major innovation gets them 100megs to the home via copper.
I'm assuming they go the vDSL route. I'm also assuming that will take them 5 years if they seriously started today. I see them needing FTTH to stay in the game the day vDSL is done. Hopefully, they will wake up like others have suggested and switch to FTTH asap and get to work.
Throw in the snails pace they move and shareholder pressure......Not to mention fixed wireless and cellular broadband. The Bells have to hate competition!
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Thermaltake 2000a/Asus P4C-e/p4 3.4/ocz3500 2x512/WD.2x200g/raptor2x74 raid 0/ATI 9600/APC sua 1500/Logitech z-680/ Samsung 213t LCD/MX 1000 | |
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| | All So True As long as Fiber to the Home means fiber to ONLY to single occupancy homes cable will have the edge. The only saving grace will be DSL on the low end for those who do not need faster speeds. | |
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| Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: All So True You haven't read the news about Verizon and MDU's yet I suppose ? Might want to take a look back in the news or even google it, it is terribly interesting.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | FTTH by AT&T I thought AT&T is now considering FTTH in the next 12 to 18 months.
Wait is AT&T a phone company or a cable company or a a wireless company?? I keep forgetting .
Using copper to the home and in the home will definitely limit bandwidth but it will keep the internet from filling all of their "tubes" (will that tubes thing ever die?).
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Just my 2 cents...Flame Lightly... | |
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18 | El Cheapo While some people are into the cheapest line available, I'm more into "Bang-for-buck".
*HERE*, at this point in time, Comcast is providing me with the most for my internet dollar.
Per month outlay is more than say, SBC/AT&T DSL, but what I get per dollar spent is WAY better than anything SBC/AT&T can dream about!
You do the math!
$52.95 - 8mbps
$14.95 - 1.5mbps(if I'm within distance limitations)
Even if I were still on the basic package @ $42.95, that is 6mbps... and I could get it!
I pay the $10.00 extra per month for 8mbps... ask anyone here - I get all of it!
DSL? Uhm, no! No Thanks!
Of course, YMMV.
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Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 k7bawDe gustibus non est disputandumPremium
join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ
·Charter
·Cox HSI
| DSL STill Serves A Major Need As long as cable companies restrict servers and block ports (except on the very expensive business lines)DSL will continue to be the choice of small to medium businesses, and the technically oriented user. It enables the use of Small Business Servers, it provides adequate speed for virtually all needs, and it allows for the use of static IP addresses. It is not perfect but it just works and works well.
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Promote the radical middle | |
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 ChucklesPremium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN | Yahoo! CABLE! CABLE! CABLE! | |
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 kyler13Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD | Huh?!? Wait a minute, I thought FIOS was getting slammed for ignoring the urban/city areas (AKA where DSL works best). Now this report says they're delpoying fiber where DSL works best? That doesn't make any sense. FIOS was deployed in my neighborhood and much of suburban MD where too many people don't have good proximity to their CO. That is where FIOS works best, not DSL. | |
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 oldduke
join:2001-06-15
Gulf Breeze, FL
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Cable NOT It's reliability for me. After hurricanes, the Bellsouth land lines are the only thing working -- no power, no cell, no cable, no water, no sewer. I'll trade a little speed (which I'll never notice anyway) and a couple of bucks for the Bellsouth guys out on the street while the wind is still blowing.
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Cogito ergo sum, I think. | |
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|  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: Cable NOT said by oldduke:It's reliability for me. After hurricanes, the Bellsouth land lines are the only thing working -- no power, no cell, no cable, no water, no sewer. I'll trade a little speed (which I'll never notice anyway) and a couple of bucks for the Bellsouth guys out on the street while the wind is still blowing. Until it blows the lines down  | |
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| | And on the other hand No one will ever break the 4 min mile, going over 30mph in an auto may cause death, ever story and every 'expert' has "on the other hand" because you never know what is around the corner.
Having said this I have 6m svc from Bellso (ATT) and being that I don't torrent or really download that much I can't see a big everyday difference from 3m svc, I did see a big change when I went from 1.5 m to 3m but for me 6m was only about $5-6 more than 3m so I took it, price does matter. | |
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 alchav
join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA |  Anything Faster than Dial-Up!
You guys here want more bandwidth for your games, but the average person just wants access. When people wake up and realize they will need a big pipe to get everything they want, Verizon will be in a position to win. | |
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| | | Re: Anything Faster than Dial-Up! Ay to that!!! I for one am rooting for Verizon on this one. | |
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 Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
·Embarq Now Centu..
| two cups and a wire is better than the cable company -- simply on principle -- but I'd switch back(even to Comcast (ugh)) without thinking about it if my dsl service were to go south. In fact, I'll bounce back and forth until I find decent service.
Truth be told, I think I'd be better off without any HSI at all and checking email-only with a dialup line rather than pay any of these money sucking leeches another dollar for overpriced access with tidy-bowl tech support.
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Salary Ratios (Top-tier CEOs : firms' employees): Britain, 24:1; France, 15:1; Sweden, 13:1; United States, 475:1 .:. see you in the eye of the needle. | |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| no one really knows yet.. No one really knows yet if cable will have the advantage, although it APPEARS on the surface due to AT&T's stubborn streak sticking with XDSL vendors like crazy glue (PINK COLORED fiber node/hybrid remote DSLAM indeed!!) . AT&T will eventually be forced into massive upgrade of the last "QUARTER MILE" and that term will be etched into AT&T's bankruptcy papers if they don't wise up soon, but that's not the point. The point is, given that lack of innovation.. robust Docsis 2.0 (low subscriber per node) can hold its own against U-Verse and be CHEAPER to run. Docsis 3.0 has the potential to WIN on cost AND service hands down vs over 90% of the XDSL configurations and cost structures when finally deployed in a real (not imagined) competitive landscape... as the cable used in docsis was already laid down.. upgrading/troubleshooting twist pair networks on a network as vast as the "NEW AT&T" will be mind boggling.. but it won't be but a few years out (at least) for AT&T to realize they are "ON THE WRONG COURSE" and finally try to mend their ways..
Verizon on the other hand will be brought kicking (maybe loss of a few customers irked by rising costs)and struggling into FTTH. Eventually their first mediocre upgrades to GPONS.. offering service comparable to channel bonded Docsis 3.0 streams. So, a total victory (for cablecos), NO. They already had that when the game was double play:: internet and tv. DSL couldn't really compete.. in triple, and now the fake quad play (wireless) are into the mix and everything is still up in the air as far as commitment to upgrades and actual boots on the ground deployment of services. | |
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 macyhEx-IspPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-24
Medina, OH
·Armstrong Zoom ..
| It all depends... Cable may have some inherent advantages over ADSL, in that the speed offered is the same top end for all users. However... a surprising number of cable companies continue to overprice cable modems vs telco xDSL and FTTH offerings. The effect of this cableco arrogance should not be underestimated.
A few examples:
- My Tampa home, has FIOS 6x2 #34.95/mo fast, solid, very reliable (previously had BrightHouse TW Roadrunner 5x512 which ran about 75% as fast and was down once a month.)
- My Ohio home, has Armstrong Cable 5x768, $44.95/mo (has occasional outages) and in practice runs well less that half the speed of FIOS
- My brothers house nearby has VZ ADSL 3x512 @24.95 and it runs faster than Armstrong and has fewer outages.
- My old Ohio house had Adelphia 5x512 @44.95/mo and ran about 80% as fast as my FIOS connection, but went down several times a year without warning for hours at a time.
Guess which service I like the best?
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Macy Hallock, Medina, OH and Lutz, FL
Ex-telco tech, network engineer and former ISP Owner | |
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 tschmidtPremium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:4
·Fairpoint Commun..
 ·Hollis Hosting
| Technology vs Business This sort of discussion is always interesting because is tends to conflate technology with business.
Both DOCSIS and DSL are clever adaptations of legacy networks allowing incumbents to offer data services. As such both have strengths and some very serious weaknesses.
DSL offers relatively low speed compared to cable and limited distance. Marketing DSL is a problem because speed is a function of distance and line characteristics. Regardless what some Telcos say I can't see DSL every supporting triple play TV/Data/Phone service because it just does not have enough capacity. DSL is not shared between DSLAM and customer. The cost of reducing oversubscription is much lower for DSL then Cable. Which is why you don’t see the Telco complaining about “data hogs”
Cable offer higher speed but that capability is shared among a large number of customers making it vulnerable to heavy use. The Achilles heel of Cable is very constrained upload speed. Cable CATV HFC infrastructure will be severely tested with widespread adoption of HDTV. CATV requires active electronics in the field making it vulnerable to power outages.
Both DSL and DOCSIS allowed incumbents to quickly leverage existing cable plant, designed for another purpose, for data service. Neither is an ideal long-term first-mile technology.
As to the quote it makes sense to deploy fiber in densely populated areas. Often copper plant is old and at capacity and there are lots of customers per mile. Once the low hanging fruit is served I have no doubt fiber will be deployed to less attractive locations. Fiber is not just a residential offering. Business is hungry for higher capacity lower cost data service.
Arguing legacy technologies are fast enough to support needs years into the future is a circular argument. Applications are optimized for first-mile capabilities. I don’t know at what point we will reach “fast enough” but I assume it will be at least a couple or orders of magnitude faster then what is available today, probably in the 100-1000 Mbps range but not over subscribed allowing 24/7 video/audio streaming.
Fiber is the only long-term solution on the horizon for anything other then rural areas. New RF technologies look very attractive to deliver cost effective services in low-density areas or where untethered access is desirable. Something often overlooked about fiber is lower operating cost, helping offset high initial capital cost. Over time fiber pay for itself with lower operating cost (OpEx). Fiber is the only technology capable of delivering megabits per second on a sustained 24/7/365 basis at reasonable cost.
/Tom
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