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MS To Pay $1.5 Billion In Largest Patent Award Ever
Alcatel wins MP3 format patent dispute...

Microsoft was ordered yesterday by a jury to shell out more than $1.5 billion stemming from a patent dispute with Alcatel-Lucent over the MP3 format. In the 80s, Bell Labs and the German Fraunhofer Institute developed the MP3 standard. Bell Labs ultimately became Lucent, but Frauhofer had been getting the patent cash. While Lucent targeted Microsoft in order to try to cash in, all companies will now have to pay Lucent if this ruling (the largest ever) stands up to appeal.

Ironically, Microsoft is Alcatel-Lucent's main IPTV service platform partner, and their technology is at the heart of AT&T's U-Verse IPTV service (and many others). Om Malik and Light Reading check out the broader implications of the patent battle's impact on Alcatel and Microsoft's IPTV relationship.
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Dodge
Premium Member
join:2002-11-27

Dodge

Premium Member

Who wrote this snippet?

The way this is written makes no sense whatsoever. Lucent was annoyed at Fraunhofer Institute so they sued MS???

Who writes these things?

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

Well Karl posted it (I don't know if he wrote it).

Re-read it slowly, maybe twice over. It makes sense, just gotta read it and make a time line in your mind.

Guru5
join:2005-12-01
Canada

Guru5

Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

said by exocet_cm:

Re-read it slowly, maybe twice over. It makes sense, just gotta read it and make a time line in your mind.
LOL
How did you come up with that method?

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

said by Guru5:
said by exocet_cm:

Re-read it slowly, maybe twice over. It makes sense, just gotta read it and make a time line in your mind.
LOL
How did you come up with that method?
Public school man!

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

LOLZORS READUN SLOWLY!! LOAL!

tacoma
Bleeding Dodger Blue
Premium Member
join:2001-05-18
Murrieta, CA

tacoma

Premium Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

I submitted this yesterday, but no love?

Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium Member
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

Michieru2

Premium Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

God must be on your side if your article does indeed make it on the front page
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned) to tacoma

Member

to tacoma
said by tacoma:

I submitted this yesterday, but no love?
Seriously, you're surprised?

kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL

kyramilan to Dodge

Member

to Dodge
Lucent owned the patent before Frauhofer got involved. It is quite amazing the breadth of patents Bell Labs and IBM have.

Now, Alcatel could go after everyone else on the MP3 issue, which includes maybe Apple?

This was news yesterday in the NY Times.

"The judgment is part of litigation by Alcatel to enforce claims related to Bell Labs patents. The case was initially brought against Dell and Gateway, which make computers using Microsoft software. Other trials are pending for technology related to speech recognition, user interfaces and video processing."
clecssuck
join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL

clecssuck

Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

It makes me sick that at French company now owns Bell Labs considering all the inventions and patents it is responsible for. They still have contracts with the US military. It's said that a U.S. board will oversee all those contrats but that doesn't make me fell any better.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

1 edit

morbo

Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

said by clecssuck:

It makes me sick that at French company now owns Bell Labs considering all the inventions and patents it is responsible for. They still have contracts with the US military. It's said that a U.S. board will oversee all those contrats but that doesn't make me fell any better.
uh, blame the greedy u.s. bastards that merged/sold with a french company.

it's not like the french mysteriously took over Bell Labs. place the "sick" you feel on the people that made it that way.
clecssuck
join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL

clecssuck

Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

I never blamed anybody. I just said it makes me sick.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000

morbo

Member

Re: Who wrote this snippet?

said by clecssuck:

I never blamed anybody. I just said it makes me sick.
you should blame. and blame the appropriate u.s. individuals.
ricep5
Premium Member
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL

ricep5 to kyramilan

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to kyramilan
Lucent has quite the IP (Intellectual Property)Group there. I read an article on them sometime ago in Forbes. Back then they had 24 full time attorneys who do nothing but look for royalty enforcement. They generate a lot of revenue relative to their overhead and some in Lucent would claim that it was IP royaties that kept them afloat during the post bubble depression they went through.

In the early Nineties when IBM was starting to struggle, it was determined that they could completely leave the manufacturing and marketing business and lay off almost everyone and still pay dividends based on royalties for 30 years.

Most people don't know that IBM developed the digital encoding method used on music CD's today back in 1956. They get 3 cents for every music CD sold in the world.

What does this mean with Microsoft? Lucent really doesn't want the money (though MS can afford it), they want access to the MS asset & patent portfolio. Establishing a financial liability in the court helps them set up a negotiation position.

Lucent knows MS could afford to appeal this for years....I predict a settlement with a patent and IP cross licensing deal.

thender2
Glamour Profession
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join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

thender2 to Dodge

Premium Member

to Dodge
I agree. What does MS have to do with bell labs and fraunhofer?

Thumbs down.

Guru5
join:2005-12-01
Canada

Guru5

Member

MS will never pay

MS will dodge this one with their highly paid lawyers.

Plus, the story seems to have more than meets the eye.
Prentiss
join:2007-02-05
00000

Prentiss

Member

Re: MS will never pay

The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher.

1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm.

fdghdfe
@optonline.net

fdghdfe

Anon

Re: MS will never pay

Yeah, Google just buys $1.65 billion in worthless internet video companies. How could one search company become so powerful? I mean Yahoo and MSN Live and Ask.com do the same thing. I guess the creative "playing with legos" act paid off. It seems like ever since they went public they have just been buying companies instead of actually producing something themselves.
Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Ahrenl

Member

Re: MS will never pay

Because they're not a search company, they're THE internet advertising company. They have over 50% market share of internet advertising with very sophisticated targeting software that surpasses any of their competitors capabilities. Their company is worth so much because they grow their revenue by 100% every year. GOOG is worth 1/2 of MSFT.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5 to Prentiss

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to Prentiss
said by Prentiss:

The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher.

1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm.
And how is that good? Because MS is evil and Google is altruistic. That is a very poor reading of the relative underlying motives of a corporation. Neither is good or evil. And Google is no better or worse than MS in its future goal of making huge profits for the shareholders.

Your Google fanboy attitude is sadly naive.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

1 edit

Robert to Prentiss

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to Prentiss
said by Prentiss:

The good thing here is that while Microsoft is getting sued and is at 70k employees, Google is NOT losing billion dollar lawsuits and is at 10k employees if you go by Yahoo figures. Eventually Google will surpass Microsoft in size AND scope while Microsoft gets hit with 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuits consistently. This wont be the last lawsuit against Microsoft and the dollar amounts will ONLY get higher.

1.2 Billion is only a fraction from Microsoft's cash coffers but its being spent on lawsuits and not for R+D and investments in the firm.
I'm not defending Microsoft, but let's be realistic here. Microsoft has annual revenues of 40+ Billion. Google is around 3.5 billion. Google will never surpass Microsoft in size (employee and revenues).

When Google is split up by the U.S. Government because of anti-trust reasons, then you can say that Google surprassed Microsoft. Until then, Google is just a puppet in this game while investors get rich off their stock. Enjoy it while it lasts.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: MS will never pay

No Google will more likely become part of the RIAA/MPAA or some media company because of the copyright material uploaded to YouTube

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: MS will never pay

said by hottboiinnc4:

No Google will more likely become part of the RIAA/MPAA or some media company because of the copyright material uploaded to YouTube
Yep.
rgillis70
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join:2002-12-30
Washington, DC

rgillis70 to Robert

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to Robert
I believe the statement was that this is 6 weeks of cash flow. Not a big deal by any means to them.

FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Guru5

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to Guru5
Likely scenario:

1- The judge will reduce the award considerably. Juries are notorious for over-awarding judgments, especially against very large corporations.

2- MS will still appeal anyway, even if the award is reduced, so as not to set a precedent in future cases.

3- An Appeals court in Wash,DC is much more likely to override the decision than any California Court.

4- Final resolution sometime in 2010 or after.

vpoko
Premium Member
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

vpoko

Premium Member

Re: MS will never pay

said by FFH5:

3- An Appeals court in Wash,DC is much more likely to override the decision than any California Court.
An appeal from the California District Court would normally go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, it would only make it to Washington if the Supreme Court granted review.

FFH5
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join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

3 edits

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: MS will never pay

said by vpoko:
said by FFH5:

3- An Appeals court in Wash,DC is much more likely to override the decision than any California Court.
An appeal from the California District Court would normally go to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, it would only make it to Washington if the Supreme Court granted review.
Read the news item. It goes to Wash,DC because that is where all patent case appeals are heard.

»www.nytimes.com/2007/02/ ··· &emc=rss
If he does not, Microsoft will probably take the case to the federal appeals court in Washington, which hears patent cases.
»usgovinfo.about.com/blfe ··· urts.htm
The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit( »www.fedcir.gov/about.html ) has nationwide jurisdiction and hears specialized cases like patent and international trade cases.

rfhar
The World Sport, Played In Every Country
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join:2001-03-26
Buicktown,Mi

rfhar to FFH5

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to FFH5
Ain't that the truth.

TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium Member
join:2002-01-25
Lithia, FL

TechieZero

Premium Member

Wow

Wow & "Ironically Microsoft is Alcatel-Lucent's main IPTV service platform partner, and their technology is at the heart of AT&T's U-Verse IPTV service.." good Broadband NEWS save.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Wow

Actually that's a pretty big angle considering they together provide IPTV service to many of the world's largest telcos...

exocet_cm
Writing
Premium Member
join:2003-03-23
Brooklyn, NY

exocet_cm

Premium Member

Re: Wow

said by Karl Bode:

Actually that's a pretty big angle considering they together provide IPTV service to many of the world's largest telcos...
I agree. The old saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" couldn't be more prominent in this discussion.

AnonProxy
Premium Member
join:2001-05-12

AnonProxy

Premium Member

MS will not have to pay...

you watch and see this will be overturned because it was a BAD decision.
rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO

rradina

Member

Doesn't make sense...

I understand Microsoft licensed the technology and paid fees to Fraunhofer. How is Fraunhofer awarded a patent to which a company pays them fees if a third party can win a judgement for that same technology?

Obviously Fraunhofer may not have a valid patent but if true, will Fraunhofer be sued by MS for damages resulting from the false patent?

My guess is $1.5B can be absorbed by MS but if MS is successful at passing those damages to Fraunhofer, it would ruin them.

Although I think the amount is questionable, the jury must have convincing facts that Lucent has reasonable claim. Somewhere inside Microsoft there's a very nervous patent lawyer who advised them that they only had to pay Fraunhofer.

••••

GilbertMark
Premium Member
join:2001-05-02
Gilbert, AZ

1 recommendation

GilbertMark

Premium Member

Hmm

MS will pay, but it will be in the form of vouchers to purchase their fine products...
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

hmm

THis will get overturned considering microsoft liscenced the tech from the other company who helped form the ,mp3 standard.
Chewyrobbo
join:2005-04-12
Tacoma, WA

Chewyrobbo

Member

Revenue

Why would they go after anyone other than Microsoft? They have the implementation in their os's, which account for most personal computers. I don't believe however this will effect them at all. In addition I think the comment about Google surpassing Windows is just silly. Sure you can see a short term profit, and long term do to the sheer amount of money they can take and re-invest into other profitable things, but straight up Microsoft has more cash and assets, and just imagine what 50 Billion dollars can earn in interest in a day.

TellmeANOTHRER
@comcast.net

TellmeANOTHRER

Anon

Being ordered to pay for your crimes and actually paying...

...are two very different acts. MICROSUCKS would rather tie this judgment up in appeals and spend the $1.5 billion on litigation than pay for their crimes. Hell Bill Gates can literally pay off the national debt with the money he has stolen thru consumer fraud but he ain't in jail - YET.

In American you can buy all the justice you can afford.
rgillis70
Premium Member
join:2002-12-30
Washington, DC

rgillis70

Premium Member

Re: Being ordered to pay for your crimes and actually paying...

You do realize that they set aside the money for the judgment almost immediately, in case they lose appeals? That is the way these case run, this way companies cannot snub their nose at the judgment and spend the money while they "tie this judgment up in appeals".

That is one reason they have ONLY 40 - 50 billion in case on hand. They have billions (or at least hundreds of millions) already set aside for judgments and pending litigation.

AS far as the national debt...he ain't worth a TRILLION dollars yet. So he won't be paying that off any time soon.

insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

insomniac84

Member

The biggest reward and Microsoft was already paying for it?

How can the biggest patent reward be handed out in a case where a company was paying to license the patent? It doesn't seem micrsoft or any company paying the German Fraunhofer Institute, is intending to not pay for the use of mp3 patents. Shouldn't Alcatel-Lucent's first step be to sue the German Fraunhofer Institute for all the money they received from companies over the technology? Then go after those that weren't licensing the patent?
insomniac84

insomniac84

Member

Biggest award and Microsoft was already paying for it?

How can the biggest patent reward be handed out in a case where a company was paying to license the patent? It doesn't seem Microsoft or any company paying the German Fraunhofer Institute, is intending to not pay for the use of mp3 patents. Shouldn't Alcatel-Lucent's first step be to sue the German Fraunhofer Institute for all the money they received from companies over the technology? Then go after those that weren't licensing the patent?
r3vld
Premium Member
join:2005-05-19
Austell, GA

r3vld

Premium Member

lol

google will beat microsoft. google is powerfull wish they made Google OS

••••

odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

odreian615

Member

Next targets

Quicktime, Real, and maybe Napster

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

WAG

Looks like Bill got caught with with a bogus Windows genuin Advantage.

Bill is a crook, I'm crook it all comes out ever in the end.
drainbamage
join:2000-10-30
Beverly Hills, CA

drainbamage

Member

bell labs

the foundation of how Bell Labs plays the patent game was established at the beginning of the century, my money is on them......

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

Link Logger

MVM

So who owns the copyright

So the part I'm concerned about is who owns the mp3 patent and how aggressive will they be, for example any mp3 player who hasn't paid the licensing fees is going to be sued, which I suspect is most mp3 player vendors. Could we be forced to abandon the mp3 format because of this, which takes on the feel of an evil RIAA plot (almost too much so).

Blake

thender2
Glamour Profession
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join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

1 edit

thender2

Premium Member

Re: So who owns the copyright

said by Link Logger:

So the part I'm concerned about is who owns the mp3 patent and how aggressive will they be, for example any mp3 player who hasn't paid the licensing fees is going to be sued, which I suspect is most mp3 player vendors. Could we be forced to abandon the mp3 format because of this, which takes on the feel of an evil RIAA plot (almost too much so).

Blake
I hope so, the MP3 format has been the worst of all the compression formats for any given bitrate for over five years now.

Not natively gapless, the only real codec with steps for bitrate in 32 kbps increments(bad for VBR), the only codec with a bunch of bad encoders in addition to decent ones.

I'd love to see Vorbis(.ogg) or Musepack(.mpc) become popular. This was an issue back when standalones had trouble decoding other formats. However, there are portables nowadays that cost less than $300 that can decode 7**x3** xvid video with AC3 audio.. so why the hell not other formats?

The ones that do can decode other formats, but most are still locked to MP3/WMA unfortunately, and this isn't going to change.