 
karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
 ·Fairpoint Communic..
| Any time the CEO says "The deal is good for workers", you KNOW they are going to get shafted. BIG TIME.
Once again, Verizon is trying to rip off the consumer. The COST of those lines to verizon was ZERO. We, the people, paid for those lines with subsidized rates. WE the people, OWN those lines. Why should verizon get 2.7 billion dollars for something that they never even paid for? This is PA all over again.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
| Re: Any time the CEO says DSL is still current. Only FIOS is new in the USA. All other Bells use DSL not FTTH but FTTP.
Personally, I still think Cable is better in most places.
Actually, you don't own the lines. Over the years, all the Bells have replaced most of their infrastructure due to DSL so the "we paid for it" doesn't apply anymore. You might as well say Detroit owns GM and Ford due to subsidizing them but they don't. Phone lines do get special treatment since they are a lifeline as well.
The break-up of AT&T was good for consumers. I doubt VOIP, Cellphones, Telephones, etc. would be where they are today without it. The Bells are trying to survive and they are going to have to take drastic measures to do so. Rural areas are just not profitable for the Bells like it is for other telco providers since they get that ridiculous USF money.
New Hampshire, Vermont and Maine are not really cost effective for FIOS so VZ is dumping it. I'll bet it is more an Investor demand than a VZ demand. VZ invested about $7 billion a year before FIOS to upgrade their lines so taxpayers owning it isn't consistent with the facts.
See VZ's corp website for capital expenditures. It is available to the public. | |
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clarky
@verizon.net | Re: Any time the CEO says must be a Fairpoint subscriber.... | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by karlmarx  :"The deal is good for workers", you KNOW they are going to get shafted. BIG TIME. Once again, Verizon is trying to rip off the consumer. The COST of those lines to verizon was ZERO. We, the people, paid for those lines with subsidized rates. WE the people, OWN those lines. Why should verizon get 2.7 billion dollars for something that they never even paid for? This is PA all over again. No the stock holders own the lines. You bitch about Verizon then you bitch about not-Verizon. You recite the leeches mantra. The subscribers did not pay for the lines, they payed for a service. They had the best service in the world for 98 years.
Oh, I forgot, this is the bitching forum. Why doesn't Telltruth take over New England, the we will see how it is done.
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Re: Any time the CEO says KarlMarx thinks everyone should pay the same bill for the same level of service (in his case: NY is rich so they should pay for FIOS to rural areas so he can live in the woods). It really worked well for the USSR, didn't it? | |
| | | | matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
2 edits | Re: Any time the CEO says And yet we also have programs such as "affirmative action" that promotes one race over another. Same thing holds true for many other government programs where the unspoken and unwritten rule of "if you're not white, don't bother asking" has governed them with an iron fist for the past thirty years. We love to talk about "equality for everybody" in this country but we forget to read the little asterisk and fine print that says "this only applies to non-whites." How is it that having an NAACP isn't discriminatory but trying to create an NAAWP is? We have black history month -- where's white history month?
My point is that there IS no such thing as equality in any country in the world and this country is no exception. Until the NAACP and other organizations that promote one race over another in this country are gone and government programs actually distribute aide based on actual need and not skin color, I will take the word "equality" in this country with a grain of salt.
This country is not and has never been a true democracy like what the Greeks had. It is a republic that is already beginning to see corrosion from corruption much like what happened to the Roman empire at the end of its time. | |
| | | | | Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD | Re: Any time the CEO says Vary true, more people need to learn that! I stand with you on those words and I have spoken them many times to people. | |
| | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
| said by karlmarx :"The deal is good for workers", you KNOW they are going to get shafted. BIG TIME. Once again, Verizon is trying to rip off the consumer. The COST of those lines to verizon was ZERO. We, the people, paid for those lines with subsidized rates. WE the people, OWN those lines. Why should verizon get 2.7 billion dollars for something that they never even paid for? This is PA all over again. Verzion is trying to rip them off? Uhh, no. They are selling them to Fairpoint. Like kyramilan, those lines were paid for a long time ago. Even so, that doesn't concern the lines being sold off to another company. That would apply if Verizon refused them service all together.
Don't talk that crap about DSL, it's non-regulated like Caller ID. Telcos are under no obligation to provide it, even though they all do because it makes business sense. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| said by karlmarx :"The deal is good for workers", you KNOW they are going to get shafted. BIG TIME. Once again, Verizon is trying to rip off the consumer. The COST of those lines to verizon was ZERO. We, the people, paid for those lines with subsidized rates. WE the people, OWN those lines. Why should verizon get 2.7 billion dollars for something that they never even paid for? This is PA all over again. 1) How is this a bad deal for the workers? If nothing else, this is better for them since they will be working for a much smaller, "locally run" company that is less likely to feel the pinch of layoffs due to other markets not performing.
2) Neither you, nor I, nor anyone on this site has contributed a single penny towards building the OLD AT&T network here in the US. While there were certainly government subsidies that began around a 100 years ago, as of present time Verizon has rebuilt the entire network many times over. The lines have been managed, maintained, and upgraded for years by Verizon. Verizon has spent billions on the network, completely independent of the original subsidies. Ergo, the network belongs to Verizon.
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я люблю Денди! | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by wifi4milez :certainly government subsidies that began around a 100 years ago The government NEVER subsidised The Phone Company. Long distance subsidised local service; One System it worked.
You have to stop reading Teletruth's un-truths. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by batterup :said by wifi4milez :certainly government subsidies that began around a 100 years ago The government NEVER subsidised The Phone Company. Long distance subsidised local service; One System it worked. You have to stop reading Teletruth's un-truths. Perhaps I should clarify what I meant by subsidies. I dont mean subsidies in the traditional sense ($ exchanging hands, etc.), I use the term to describe the monopoly status and rights of way given to American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T for those who dont know) in order to facilitate the building of a telephone network in the US that began in 1885.
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я люблю Денди! | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by wifi4milez : I use the term to describe the monopoly status and rights of way given to American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T for those who dont know) in order to facilitate the building of a telephone network in the US that began in 1885. There you go again; rights of way were not given they were rented and are taxed. The Telephone Company does not control the right of way, they were forced to give space on there poles to CATV. | |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable
·BroadVoice
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by batterup :said by wifi4milez : I use the term to describe the monopoly status and rights of way given to American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T for those who dont know) in order to facilitate the building of a telephone network in the US that began in 1885. There you go again; rights of way were not given they were rented and are taxed. The Telephone Company does not control the right of way, they were forced to give space on there poles to CATV. I am not entirely sure why you are arguing with me given that we both have the same point.
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я люблю Денди! | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by wifi4milez :I am not entirely sure why you are arguing with me given that we both have the same point. Really? You keep saying The Phone Company was given something by the government. Actually they were hindered by the government. In 1956 AT&T got to keep Western Electric if they promised not to go into any other business except the telephone business in the Us. They were forced to sell Canada Bell and Northern Electric and NNT in Japan. Yes that NNT that is a regulated utility in Japan that owned NEC.
AT&T lost out on the computer revolution because of the government. It was Bell Labs the wrote Unix and had to give it away. So when you parrot Trletruth and say the government gave AT&T anything I have to correct that untruth. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Any time the CEO says said by TKJunkMail :You, the people don't own 1 inch of those lines. Bell and their successors and their investors own those lines. I thought Al Gore owned the phone lines so that he could reduce his carbon footprint.
Oh wait, never mind.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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upidstay
@bellsouth.net
| AOL? now AWOL! It seems as if the workers have a great reason to be concerned, while fiber is still expensive, a company with
a viewpoint like FairPoint will almost certainly end up in the condition that AOSmell is right now. There are just too many advances and innovations in the tech industry to sit on top of old technology for too long. While DSL RIGHT NOW may be fairly modern, it certainly WILL NOT be (with its limitations for standard ADSL) in 3 to 5 years. Heck, some on this forum would tell you that DSL is obsolete already, and that sentiment would be from REGULAR internet users not the jaded 15mbps speed plan power users on cable or fiber. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Re: Fiber... Phone service is quickly becoming a losing prop for the Bells.
Hate to tell you but FIOS and FIOS TV are way underpriced. I see, wait, huge price increases on both in the next few years. Probably the same rates as cable and maybe more. | |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME | Re: Fiber... I would pay the same price as cable in a heart beat for FiOS. The value for the money of the service is great. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
| Workers are worried... ...Fairpoint isn't going to pay them the ridiculous high salaries VZ does for people that only grad from high school and took training at VZ.
Unions are worried about losing dues; they don't care about the workers.
And, if you are wondering, FIOS will eliminate a lot of jobs at VZ anyway. That is one big bene VZ is counting on. | |
| | srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY | Re: Workers are worried... So you've decided the telecom sector is overpaid in the northeast. One question: Who the hell are YOU? | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Re: Workers are worried... Kyra Milan last time I looked. ??? | |
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BOGBS
Premium
join:2004-05-11
Saco, ME
·RoadRunner Cable
4 edits | I'm not sure what college offers OSP training better than actual work with Verizon, or any phone company for that matter. I think these workers deserve good pay, because on any given day, they could be doing a number of maintenance. Would you want to be paid 30K a year while being up several feet in the air in 15 degree weather with 20mph+ winds. That's only one example of any number of fun weather aspects these people have to deal with.
I don't think these employees are overpaid. They're not exactly working one of the safest desk jobs around. They also happen to be working with some of the oldest, not so well maintained NE network. That's my feeling. As much as the unions might have their own agenda, they still offer some security for workers of the company, so the employees/members don't get fired/laid off at will.
If you were in these workers' position, you wouldn't be worried about losing your job because of a sale to another company? Their contracts are only applicable until fall 08, so I think I'd be slightly more than worried.
How do you know if these employees are being overpaid if you've never done their job? Unless I'm missing something that you didn't say... | |
| | | srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY | Re: Workers are worried... Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Somebody who understands! | |
| | | | gower2352
join:2005-06-08
Weston, WV | Re: Workers are worried... Why haven't they sold West Virginia yet??? | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
| VZ has way too much overhead staff.
Workers that don't add value to the company in those states are worried like Union lackeys. Just sit around and do grievances and bleed the company.
I would like to see one person when you call a company be able to handle just about everything. Unions have made that impossible.
Non-union companies like Cable seem to be able to handle everything and make less money.
If techs are overpaid, you would have to look at the salaries for those areas. I bet they make a lot more than the cable cos. I've seen double.
I'm for the following:
Full Health Care
Life & Disability Insurance (10 times your annual salary)
401K (100% match)
Vacation and Sick Leave
When I invest in a company, I look at the number of employees and divide that by revenue and profits. I look at Dividends and ten years of revenue and profit growth. I look at R&D.
I invested in VZ and I would like to see a annual stock price gain of 10% over the next 20 years. | |
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anon101
@verizon.net
| Re: Workers are worried... Dear Kyramilan,
VZ has way too much overhead staff...IT SURE DOES!!! But not like you think...Its top heavy...3 mergers in last 9 years, no overlapping territories, to me it means that those "union lackeys" are needed. Its the middle management that is in excess. That will be proven this month. And can you explain to me why they are still hiring these "union lackeys", I can, because they are NEEDED!!!
You want one person to do everything, what a ridiculous point of view! You probably complain about being on hold too long right now, but imagine in your world~~~You call Vz and an employee answers your call, then enters your order or trouble report, then goes to the central office, (that is where the wires come from that connect to your home), too wire the job, then he/she drives to your home and wires that in meanwhile making sure everything is connected in between and doing the job in a safe manner. That is a real cost efficient way to run a business.
You are right in what to look in when you invest...but nowadays there is something that the colleges seem to forget when they teach you, that's common sense! These employees that "sit around", don't exist, they built this company and maintain it to keep it making money. Right now all the corporate office looks at is the $$'s. That is a dangerous tactic when one gets used to it. Next thing you know, they sell the whole company from beneath their feet, but who cares, at least they(corporate mgmt) got paid well...too bad for the employees and the investors, right?
Vz is a good company to invest in, as long as they manage it correctly. Selling off 3 states (NH, ME, and VT) just to dump off debt just shows the greed. The southern half all 3 states are pretty much suburban, they can make money there and offer same product in different platforms to the rest,(ie DirecTv and dsl instead of Fios) to the rest, but why do that when you can talk a company into taking your debt. Lets see how Fairoint would handle an ice storm.
Vz will make you money, and the union will keep corporate honest. To provide a great product, you need skilled people to build and maintain it. Anytime, anyplace, any weather. | |
| | | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | quote:
VZ has way too much overhead staff.
Then tell me why Verizon missed Regulatory Body Target Time frames for Out of Service Restorals in 17 out of the 28 states it offered service in during 2006 for 2 or more consecutive months? Why did they miss those commits for more than 3 months straight in 8 of those states? Why are service orders for installs and jack work delayed several weeks when they have to constantly pull Installers off of their work to help Repair get caught up? Why are installs in new subdivisions/housing complexes held up for 2-3 months while they wait for Facilities to be built and people are moving into their new homes?
kyramilan, you have no clue as to how short staffed the Field Techs are thoughout Verizon. The copper network is disintegrating due to lack of funds and the proper amount of techs to maintain it. This costs the company mutlimillions in fines every year. Futhermore, it is not the Unions that decided to segment the divisions within Telecomm Companies. Much of that is due to Fair Competition Rulings imposed on Telcos as part of the Telecommuications Act. The ISP Divisions of all the ILECs have to be treated as though they are CLECs and can not share records.
Maybe you should look at how overcompensated the Executives are, instead how much the average Union Employee makes. Ivan makes more in 1 day than over 85% of Americans make in 1 year. This does not include his Diamond studded, Titanium Parachute that he will recieve upon retirement. FIOS is not the magic goose that lays golden eggs, and Verizon will be forced to maintain 2 networks{copper and fiber} for at least 20+ years...guess infrastructure costs will actually go up instead of down as the Fiber network grows. The only thing that makes fiber easier to maintain is that it is not succeptible to corrosion/damage from moisture. You will still have aerials taken down by wind/ice, UG drops cut by homeowners that don't get their lines marked before digging, and cables cut by whatever kind of construction/road/sewer crew you want to name.
Wouldn't be nice if all the stocks we invest in gained 10% annually, but only a fool would count that as a guarentee over the next 20 years.
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my computer:
P4 3.4 GHz
550 Watt Antec Neo HE PSU
Nvidia Geoforce 7900GS 256Mb
2GB pc3200 RAM
XP Media Center SP2
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anon101
@verizon.net
| Dear Kyramilan,
VZ has way too much overhead staff...IT SURE DOES!!! But not like you think...Its top heavy...3 mergers in last 9 years, no overlapping territories, to me it means that those "union lackeys" are needed. Its the middle management that is in excess. That will be proven this month. And can you explain to me why they are still hiring these "union lackeys", I can, because they are NEEDED!!!
You want one person to do everything, what a ridiculous point of view! You probably complain about being on hold too long right now, but imagine in your world~~~You call Vz and an employee answers your call, then enters your order or trouble report, then goes to the central office, (that is where the wires come from that connect to your home), too wire the job, then he/she drives to your home and wires that in meanwhile making sure everything is connected in between and doing the job in a safe manner. That is a real cost efficient way to run a business.
You are right in what to look in when you invest...but nowadays there is something that the colleges seem to forget when they teach you, that's common sense! These employees that "sit around", don't exist, they built this company and maintain it to keep it making money. Right now all the corporate office looks at is the $$'s. That is a dangerous tactic when one gets used to it. Next thing you know, they sell the whole company from beneath their feet, but who cares, at least they(corporate mgmt) got paid well...too bad for the employees and the investors, right?
Vz is a good company to invest in, as long as they manage it correctly. Selling off 3 states (NH, ME, and VT) just to dump off debt just shows the greed. The southern half all 3 states are pretty much suburban, they can make money there and offer same product in different platforms to the rest,(ie DirecTv and dsl instead of Fios) to the rest, but why do that when you can talk a company into taking your debt. Lets see how Fairoint would handle an ice storm.
Vz will make you money, and the union will keep corporate honest. To provide a great product, you need skilled people to build and maintain it. Anytime, anyplace, any weather. | |
| ElJay
join:2004-03-17
1 edit | Like FIOS was coming to Maine or Vermont anytime soon... Let's not kid ourselves. I have to agree with FairPoint that DSL is sufficient at the moment for most applications and it's not even a decade old yet in this state. | |
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New England Workers Unite Against Verizon Sale
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