 
biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI | First TV... Now They're in the Automotive Business? Wow. That had to be expensive. Come get your Verizon Prius! | |
| rantou
join:2002-06-04
Richardson, TX | What about that marketing scheme??? So they will use gas guzzling Hummers for advertising, but they want to be green otherwise? Sounds like the pot called the kettle black! | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: What about that marketing scheme??? Good point.. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
 ·Comcast
| said by rantou  :So they will use gas guzzling Hummers for advertising, but they want to be green otherwise? Sounds like the pot called the kettle black! They don't give a crap about the environment. They want to save money on gas. Anything that will cut costs is positive for them and much needed. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by MadMANN :They want to save money on gas. Anything that will cut costs is positive for them and much needed. Hybrid vehicles generally cost so much more than gasoline powered equivalents that any savings from gas use is minimal at best.
According to the article, Verizon had their vans equipped with after-market hybrid technology. This process adds significantly more cost to the vehicles (assuming they were purchased new). It is unlikely they will recoup any savings from gasoline purchases using this approach.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by pnh102 :According to the article, Verizon had their vans equipped with after-market hybrid technology. This process adds significantly more cost to the vehicles (assuming they were purchased new). It is unlikely they will recoup any savings from gasoline purchases using this approach. As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck?
The savings are obvious. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by MadMANN :As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck? The savings are obvious. What is not being told here is how much Verizon spent on each vehicle to have it converted. Given how much more hybrid cars cost than non-hybrid cars, it is not reasonable to assume that the cost of converting each vehicle for hybrid use could be that high. For example, compare the cost of a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid Sedan to a non-hybrid Honda Civic Sedan. The hybrid costs about $7500 more than the non-hybrid (assuming the lowest MSRPs are used).
Another factor is that hybrid cars realize much of their gas savings from the fact that they are small. Compare the 4 cylinder Saturn VUE SUV to its non-hybrid counterpart. The former gets 27-32 MPG and the latter gets 22-27 MPG. That isn't exactly a stellar difference.
I am also assuming that a field truck gets more abuse than a standard car, so there might also be a battery replacement needed (especially since older batteries lose their ability to retain charge). There's another ding in the potential savings.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pkarlos_76
join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by pnh102 :said by MadMANN :As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck? The savings are obvious. What is not being told here is how much Verizon spent on each vehicle to have it converted. Given how much more hybrid cars cost than non-hybrid cars, it is not reasonable to assume that the cost of converting each vehicle for hybrid use could be that high. For example, compare the cost of a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid Sedan to a non-hybrid Honda Civic Sedan. The hybrid costs about $7500 more than the non-hybrid (assuming the lowest MSRPs are used). Another factor is that hybrid cars realize much of their gas savings from the fact that they are small. Compare the 4 cylinder Saturn VUE SUV to its non-hybrid counterpart. The former gets 27-32 MPG and the latter gets 22-27 MPG. That isn't exactly a stellar difference. I am also assuming that a field truck gets more abuse than a standard car, so there might also be a battery replacement needed (especially since older batteries lose their ability to retain charge). There's another ding in the potential savings. Quoted from »www.hybridcars.com/faq.html
"How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?"
Answer:
"The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the car maker.
Battery toxicity is a concern, althoug today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.
There's no definitive word on replacement costs because they are almost never replaced. According to Toyota, since the Prius first went on sale in 2000, they have not replaced a single battery for wear and tear." | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by pkarlos_76 :Quoted from » www.hybridcars.com/faq.html"How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?" Answer: "The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the car maker. That answer is 100% true, of course, because by the time you have racked up that kind of mileage on a vehicle, it is not financially smart to buy a new battery, but instead to put that money towards a new car. Since for most people that means the get rid of the current car, then it is 100% true that the battery has lasted "the life of the vehicle."
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pkarlos_76
join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB | Re: What about that marketing scheme??? Haha, wouldn't last long in my business, my 3/4 ton 4x4 work truck that I own and run my business from racks up 120,000 km a year. Of course we replace them every 3 to 5 years. | |
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jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| said by MadMANN :said by pnh102 :According to the article, Verizon had their vans equipped with after-market hybrid technology. This process adds significantly more cost to the vehicles (assuming they were purchased new). It is unlikely they will recoup any savings from gasoline purchases using this approach. As a field tech, I put about $100-125 in my tank every week. In a year, that's $5200. In five years (the average life of a field vehicle, sometimes more), that would be $26,000. So you are telling me that a hybrid truck would cost close to $26,000 more than a normal truck? The savings are obvious. No, I am telling you that the 10 to 20% fuel savings ($5,000 over 5 years in your example) does not cover the cost of the conversion.
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NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. | |
| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by jaa :No, I am telling you that the 10 to 20% fuel savings ($5,000 over 5 years in your example) does not cover the cost of the conversion. My previous 2000 Camry was getting 20 MPG. My 2007 Camry Hybrid is getting an actual ~32 MPG. That was certainly more of a savings than 10%. | |
| | | | | | | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber | |
| | | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by cmaenginsb :You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings. I can't? My 2000 Camry was rated 23/32, yet I still only saw ~20 MPG actual performance for this terrain. A 2007 Camry is only better on the specs by 1-2 MPG.
All I know is that my obtained MPG in the 2007 hybrid was effectively 160% that of my 2000 car which still retains specs similar to that in the base Camry model today. | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| said by cmaenginsb :You can't compare a car built in 2000 with one built in 2007. A 2007 Camry gets 24/34 vs 40/38 for the hybrid. Making it 11% savings on the highway and 40% in the city. Assuming you had an even mix of driving you get a 26% average savings. I don't know in what areas they are deploying the hybrids, but in metro areas like NYC, almost ALL of the driving these guys do is "city" driving which is where the hybrids (of any size) really shine. Verizon is a greedy company, they would not do this just to enhance their public image.
We also don't know if these hybrid systems they are using have a plug or not. If they do, then they are going to "fill up" overnight and save even more (an all electric car is far, far cheaper to "gas up" than a gasoline car). | |
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mtech
join:2002-10-20
Jonesboro, AR
·Suddenlink
| Your math is off. You are looking at total fuel cost, not difference in fuel costs between the two types of vehicle. 18-21 mpg for hybrid vs.16-22 mpg for standard engine (per specs for Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Work Truck). That works out to an 11% savings for in-town driving and a loss for highway driving. Assuming only in-town driving, that works out to $11 to $14 savings per week. In a year, that would be a savings of only $572 to $728 and a savings of $2625 to $3640 over a five year lifespan. There is approximately $6000 difference in retail prices between a hybrid and a standard engine Silverado.
Not so obvious savings.
I totally support research into alternatives, but the solution is not there yet. | |
| | | | | cmaenginsb
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA
| As others stated, only an electric truck will eliminate the $26,000 cost you mention, the actual savings will be a wash compared to the cost of the conversion.
In the end the added cost of conversion is a wash. This is the case with most hybrids, with the biggest benefit not being a cost savings but a more "green" vehicle.
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CCNA, Comtrain Certified Tower Climber | |
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CConverse
join:2006-01-31
Syracuse, NY
| You know what? If they're saving $$$, GREAT!!! Maybe it will send the message to other businesses that they can take steps to become environmentally responsible without cutting into profits, if not potentially increasing them after the initial investment.
Kudos to Verizon. They just gained a lot of points in my book today. (and they had a pretty good debt racked up, too...) | |
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MadMANN
Premium
join:2005-08-19
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by CConverse :You know what? If they're saving $$$, GREAT!!! Maybe it will send the message to other businesses that they can take steps to become environmentally responsible without cutting into profits, if not potentially increasing them after the initial investment. I agree. | |
| | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by pnh102 :Hybrid vehicles generally cost so much more than gasoline powered equivalents that any savings from gas use is minimal at best. Possibly true. However, if I had a choice on wether to use my money to fund further further fuel consumption (from dubious countries overseas), or spend it on an innovative product, I'd personally rather not fund that whole region as much as possible. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by AquaBlaze :I'd personally rather not fund that whole region as much as possible. I agree completely... I just think that hybrids are not the best solution to that problem. I would suggest opening up more US territory to oil production, opening more refineries in the USA, pushing for significantly higher fuel economy standards for all vehicles, and possibly funding a "no holds barred" effort to develop an alternative fuel that uses raw materials that are found or manufactured in abundance in the USA.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? Like natural gas? There's a series on Discovery running for the past month called Future Car. One of the portions is on new fuels, and a natural gas engine is covered that looks pretty feasible. Since we already have a national distribution network (right to your house!) it would be REALLY easy to kick this off. Plus natural gas has VERY low emissions. Many public transportation systems already use natural gas, and the US produces collects most of the natural gas it uses domestically. Of course it would just be a patch. Hydrogen is even better.
And before you say, "but it's explosive!" so is gasoline.. using nat gas or hydrogen is actually safer as a leak will naturally disperse upwards instead of covering the occupants in flammable liquid and cooking them alive... | |
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RIRWIN1983
join:2005-08-30
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| What we realy needto do in the short term, is reduce the cost of hybrids. If there isent/wasent such a major price diffrence, then hybrids would be more main stream, get them down to the range of manual v.s. automatic tranys and then we'll see them realy take off. BTW ever notice how widely available automatic tranys are now, and the big price diffrence when they first started to come out? nowadays on most vehicles it a less that 1,000 diff for an auto trany. | |
| | | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? said by RIRWIN1983 :What we realy needto do in the short term, is reduce the cost of hybrids. Hybrids are of limited supply, and the demand is great. The price could very well be lower, but dealers are capable of selling them at suggested retail, or even marking them up for the added "green" factor. My 2007 Hybrid Camry was a relative "steal" for getting it ~$1k under sticker price.
...or at least that's how the dealers in So. Cal. operate. | |
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RIRWIN1983
join:2005-08-30
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: What about that marketing scheme??? Well in Cali your in the 3-4/gal range thus i think the dealers can get away with that a lil more than back out here where were sub 2/gal area. i can understand the cost big auto has in researching and developing this tech, but they could get a faster reurn on that expence if they dident price them so far out of most peoples willingess to spend, even if it means saving money on gas. I would fully buy a hybrid car, only if it dident mean working 3 jobs just to afford the "luxury" of being envio frendly. | |
| | | | | | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by pnh102 :I agree completely... I just think that hybrids are not the best solution to that problem. I would suggest opening up more US territory to oil production, opening more refineries in the USA, pushing for significantly higher fuel economy standards for all vehicles, and possibly funding a "no holds barred" effort to develop an alternative fuel that uses raw materials that are found or manufactured in abundance in the USA. I'd agree to opening up oil/fuel resources more...if it could actually be fruitful to a stopgap measure awaiting future alternative fuels. Oil is a limited resource, nomatter how one chooses to address the issue. However, I'm lending to believe that in the current economy, simply opening up territory will only lend to short-term profits by the oil industry with little interest paid into alternative fuel sources. Should energy become more impending a concern in the future, no doubt alternative fuel research investments will have to be a bloated government-funded kickoff, as these companies are currently too entrenched with the profit margin they enjoy now.
The future energy problem is complex, and I doubt there's a one-size-fits-all solution like hybrids...but it's a start. In the here-and-now, however, buying a hybrid car (longterm) is less resources used, less money funding "iffy" regions, and a marginal savings. I'd say the money was well worth it, even if I broke even. | |
| | | Josimars
join:2001-04-24
Port Chester, NY | So whats wrong with that | |
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thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY | In all due fairness, I have seen many of those hummers, but always parked. | |
| brainlessdog
join:2005-11-30
Portsmouth, NH | This has nothing to do with Broadband Verizon started using recycled toilet paper today. | |
| Littlefalls
join:2004-11-16
Ringwood, NJ | Cool That's pretty neat actually... at least someone is "trying" to make a difference | |
| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| They actually help start the 3rd brake light..... When Verizon was C&P Telephone here in the Mid-Atlantic, many of their cars were retrofitted with 3rd brake lights. They had a lot fewer rear-end accidents and their experience was one of those used to promote the regulations. They did this back in the 70's and 80's. | |
| | | SD6
join:2005-03-26 | nothing but PR "one of the largest private motor vehicle fleets in the US..." and they retrofit 13 vans.
big whoop, shame on those news organizations who fall for this PR and tell people that Verizon is being green | |
| | 
jimmy235
@verizon.net
| Way to go! All of you are full of crap, GTE 15 yrs ago before being taken over by Verizon had 100's of CNG (compressed natural gas) vehicles and that was just in it's Santa Monica location. It has many others in different locations, they are still in place. It always amazes me how bitter some individuals are no matter how good the news. Kudos to any large company that helps our environment | |
| 
cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Newtown, PA
| How is this being green? Duty vans just sit idling, as the techs do their paperwork, or pull along other techs and chat.
Taxicabs should be hybrids. Not utility vans. Not unless the duty of the Fios van driver is stop-n-go in a metro area.
Verizon could be green if they ditched the Hummer2 marketing vehicles (but why should they? it's a complete wash for a 100% lease writeoff...).
Verizon could mandate that all service vehicles run on ethanol (not going to happen, especially when the big trucks are diesel). Or could encourage employees with incentive to move to hybrids (again, will they go to Camrys? Since that is the only nice car-hybrid available...).
This is just attention-whoring on the "Look, we are doing something for the green team" PR.
Yet, our Fios equipment uses YOUR electricity bill. Rather Verizon could penny-up to donating to windmill farms, or solar arrays on their access/comm areas.
Sorry. bad morning. grumpy. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: How is this being green? It'll be a long time before you see a proliferation of hybrid taxi's.
Most of the taxi's in use are "retired" police cars. Hack's bid the hell out of em' Last one we sold had 80,000 miles on it, and had been in an accident bad enough to require replacement of the driver's side door, with some surgery to the "B" pillar. We still got $2500 for it.
And I don't think we'll see hybrid police cars any time soon...
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FCC, PLEASE KILL THE MERGER BEFORE THE MERGER KILLS SATRAD! | |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA | Re: How is this being green? CNG is more popular for taxi's here in Cali. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: How is this being green? said by RideRed :CNG is more popular for taxi's here in Cali. I can see that. Central refueling point, lower emissions.
CNG fueled vehicles also have lower maintenance costs, due to the fact that the fuel doesn't wash down the cylinders at startup like gasoline...
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FCC, PLEASE KILL THE MERGER BEFORE THE MERGER KILLS SATRAD! | |
| | pvc00
join:2001-03-10
Hampton, VA
| Sorry to burst your bubble Mr. VONAGE, Us Verizon techs don't sit around idling. We are busy switching over those winbacks and triple-plays from Cox & Comcast. We dont have time anymore to do that. Verizon is just trying to save some money. A  t least they are doing something. Maybe the hybrids will or will not work out. It's just a "TRIAL". Why don't you pony up some money and buy some VZ stock and then you can go to shareholders meeting and suggest your " Wind Farm Idea" to Ivan.. | |
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA
| Re: How is this being green? Yeah right. Verizon is losing copper subs hand over fist to cable and they ain't saving crap with this gimmick of hybrids.
Verizon should spend more time providing their techs better training so they can help stop the hemorrhaging customers over crap overpriced service.
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There's only 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Minimize the Impact? Hybrid vehicles are not the environmental panacea everyone makes them out to be. They simply trade one form of pollution for another. In my opinion, exchanging the pollution of a gas-powered engine for the pollution created by battery production is a bad trade.
Over the past 30 years, efficiency of gasoline engines has improved significantly, and while more work needs to be done in this area (revising CAFE standards, etc.), gasoline engines have come a long way in terms of producing less emissions as technology improves.
However... anyone who knows anything about making batteries knows that the process and chemicals used in these suckers are extremely toxic. Couple that with the fact that all batteries eventually die out and have to be replaced will mean that even with recycling, you still have to scorch the Earth to make even more.
Which poison is better?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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KoolMoe
Aw Man
Premium
join:2001-02-14
Annapolis, MD
clubs: | Re: Minimize the Impact? That's good news! I wonder what exactly the details are of these recycle claims. Do they actually recycle or do they just dump most of the parts? Hmmmm.
KM
--
Don't Lie - Be Kind - Realize your Potential | |
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BIGMIKE
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Westminster, CA
| said by KoolMoe :A rarity, I think in general, but I agree with you. Moving to batteries that are going to die eventually and no plan for recycling them (is there?) is kinda silly. However, anything that helps promote an alternative to gasoline as the only method of auto fuel is a good thing. Let's just hope these hybrids are but a temporary span of the overall evolution away from the traditional. KM To purchase a brand new hybrid battery from a dealer, the price for a Honda Insight Hybrid battery is around $3600.
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Type "miserable failure" in Google | |
| | 
tapeloop
1959. I try to kick the ball. I miss.
Premium
join:2004-06-27
Airstrip One
| Re: Minimize the OPEC? But...but...what about reduction of our dependence on foreign oil? 
I will say that the car biz is more about what sells than what pollutes the environment less. People see the dollar signs in their eyes from gas savings and buy the hybrids for that reason I'm sure. Auto makers push the hybrids because they sell. Before it was the SUVs and the whole "safety" schtick.
And batteries...don't get me started. Battery technology needs to make it to the 21st century something fierce.
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I cannot stand demagoguery. If you disagree with my stance, you're a blithering twit. You're not a twit, are you? | |
| 
Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | Was this before or after they pulled their ads from Anne Coulter's website?
i yi yi ... | |
| 
Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
| Good PR and thats it? Is anyone else as skeptical as me.....VZ owns one of the largest repair fleets in the nation and they only do 13 vehicles and then make a big deal out of it?
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good PR and thats it? said by Loker :VZ owns one of the largest repair fleets in the nation and they only do 13 vehicles and then make a big deal out of it? Yea... it sounds a lot like someone who uses 20x more power in his own house than the average house, but then buys carbon credits from a charity that he founded and still manages and then uses that as an excuse for being able to pollute more.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: Good PR and thats it? Hey, isn't that the same guy that invented the internet?? | |
| | Lets Go
join:2005-03-05
Homer, NY
| said by Loker :Is anyone else as skeptical as me.....VZ owns one of the largest repair fleets in the nation and they only do 13 vehicles and then make a big deal out of it? How would you feel if they fitted all their vans and the technology doesn't work for them. My guess is that you would then complain because they can not come to your house because all of their fleet was broken down. I think testing it first makes sense.
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Fargo, ND
clubs:
| Re: Good PR and thats it? said by Lets Go :said by Loker :Is anyone else as skeptical as me.....VZ owns one of the largest repair fleets in the nation and they only do 13 vehicles and then make a big deal out of it? How would you feel if they fitted all their vans and the technology doesn't work for them. My guess is that you would then complain because they can not come to your house because all of their fleet was broken down. I think testing it first makes sense. why make a big deal about testing it then? it is just PR....I would be surprised if we see many more the vehicles in their repair fleet upgraded to hybrid technology....I mean their trucks have been falling apart here for at least 7 years....they can not be bothered to maintain their fleet as is!
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
| | | | SD6
join:2005-03-26 | Re: Good PR and thats it? I am skeptical as well. (see my post) | |
| jervin123
join:2005-04-14
Philadelphia, PA
| Hybrid + Nickel Battery = bad I don't understand why many hybrid car makers decided to use Nickel based batteries then Lithium-ion/polymer just my opinion. Then we could store energy after shutting down vehicle where as most hybrids discharge their battery immediatly after shutting down. | |
| | 
LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| Re: Hybrid + Nickel Battery = bad said by jervin123 :I don't understand why many hybrid car makers decided to use Nickel based batteries then Lithium-ion/polymer just my opinion. Then we could store energy after shutting down vehicle where as most hybrids discharge their battery immediatly after shutting down. NIMH don't discharge on shutdowm. They maintain a charge for several months without recharging.
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
| | 
tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
1 edit | dup post please delete | |
| ATHF
join:2004-12-20
00000
| FIOS bus it already takes 5-8 hours they should schedule drop off for there tech's with equipment to houses when they done just call for pickup  on to next house.
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RideRed
Vista needs a popup blocker for Vista
Premium
join:2005-06-18
USA | Stupid Beyond stupid.
They could have gone with CNG for far cheaper and are better for the environment. | |
| Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
| the green movement is nothing more than a marketing sham... people are getting suckered into buying more expensive technology with the promise that they are reducing their 'carbon footprint'... the phrase, carbon footprint makes me nauseous to even think about or say because of what Orwellian/politically correct/leftist nonsense is derived from it... more corporations are going to glom onto the green movement, not because they think it's a legitimate thing, but because in terms of public relations it goes much further than amount of dollars spent to simply say you are minimizing your environmental impact...
the whole thing is ludicrous and as phoney as a north korean $100 bill... | |
| | techman01
join:2001-05-06
Bohemia, NY | Re: the green movement It's called federal tax credits for doing it.
That's how they make up the conversion costs. | |
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shane349
Premium
join:2005-03-21
Delta, OH
1 edit | lol is that a parking ticket on the windshield of that hummer? | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: lol Yeah big giant tax right offs and advertisements.We use ure car u use our service lol. | |
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KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
 ·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: lol Ticket??? The colors suggest it might be a Fios brochure. Kinda like a "Free Info, Please Take One". I thought most cops left the ticket on the drivers side, so you would be sure to see it. 
Verizon going green? Heck, around here, the techs actually leave their vans IDLING, WITH THE KEYS IN THE IGNITION, during the ENTIRE INSTALL.
Thats like 4-6 hours idling per install. I guess they don't want to return to a cold van. Maybe they keep the AC on during the summer too.
But it's like, Dude, you know how you left your van idling outside with the keys in the ignition 6 hours ago?
Well my buddy at the Chop Shop just called, and he says you can have your keys back now. | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
1 edit | everything starts somewhere said by jervin123 :I don't understand why many hybrid car makers decided to use Nickel based batteries then Lithium-ion/polymer just my opinion. Then we could store energy after shutting down vehicle where as most hybrids discharge their battery immediatly after shutting down. Already in the works, Toyota says the will switch to Lithium-ion (probably polymer, still testing durability) by the 2008-9 model year.
neither LI nor NiHM discharge more than 10% per week, unlike Ultra-capacitors (very fast charge-self discharge overnight)which also have potential as PART of a hybrid system. due to weight concerns, small hybrids (passenger cars) will likely stick with electrical storage, for now.
However larger service vehicles (larger vans, medium duty vehicles and up) will probably go to hydraulic which has at least 3 times the energy storage per pound, of the best batteries available, at a 1/3 the price or less (based on mass production) and up to 60% increase in fuel mileage. in stop-n-go useage like service vehicles (garbage trucks, UPS/ Fed-ex delivery vans, and probably most of comcasts mileage) add the advantage for any vehicle that uses hydraulics (garbage trucks, boom trucks (cable and phone service) is that the "battery" is storing energy in a form already needed.
Imagine a tech in the bucket truck is working on a pole-mounted device, while he is stationary or only moving around a little, the engine on the truck (smaller high efficiency diesel driving a large hydraulic pump) shuts down for 10-20 minutes at a time, only starting when the hydraulic battery (hydraulic cylinder with a reservoir of nitrogen)needs charging (it then comes on, going immedietlly to it's most efficient speed and runs only until the hydraulic battery is pumped up to 5-7500 PSI(max)and then shuts off again. generator (both for truck power and emergency recharging of nodes/tool usage, etc) and a heat pump (keeps tech,truck and equipment warm/cool) are also hydraulicly driven, the tech can fill out reports, wait for calls/assistance etc. without constantly idling the engine.
UPS is current testing 2 different prototypes based on this technology
»www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200···45/Issue
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KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: everything starts somewhere Tshirt, Lithium-Ion battery technology, although currently available in most cell phones, is still in it's infancy, (I have already been through 2 Dell recalls on my laptop's batteries).
Who wants to return to their car, only to find that it erupted into a fireball 45 minutes ago, and took 6 other cars with it?????
Ni-Cd was OK, but yes, memory effect was ugly, and Cadmium is a toxic metal. Ni-MH is better, but still does not come close to Li-Ion in capacity per cm/2, and can still suffer memory effect. Li-Ion, is common to internal shorting, and any contact with oxygen likely results in a fire.
The copper and zinc electrodes jabbed into an Orange seemed to work OK when I was in Junior High School, why not offer a trunk load of oranges as a fix for the problem??
I will wait for Nickel-Hydrogen batteries to become available, or cold fusion, before I consider jumping in. | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: everything starts somewhere said by KA3SGM : Tshirt, Lithium-Ion battery technology, although currently available in most cell phones, is still in it's infancy, (I have already been through 2 Dell recalls on my laptop's batteries). Who wants to return to their car, only to find that it erupted into a fireball 45 minutes ago, and took 6 other cars with it????? That is certainly a danger is the energy density is increased. as sony and others are learning manufacturing QC, or even the risks are not yet fully understood.
Of course laptop and cellphones have the additional requirement needing of extremely compact batteries
Automotive designers more than double the size per watt to allow safety barriers, fuses, temperature sensitive, voltage and short circuit saftey cutoffs, and cooling passages.
Orange likely don't have the energy density to transport them selves very far.
I don't believe we can wait for portable fusion before finding way to use fossil fuel more effciently the "hybrid" technologies being developed will work with ANY storage battery type, and any power source that comes along.
Auto makers are all spending huge amounts to create new, better batteries.
Verizon's test is a great demonstration of their potential demand for a useable more efficient service vehicle.
A smart auto manufacturer would be a partner in the test to gain knowlwdge and experince towards meeting that demand | |
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KA3SGM
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Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| said by tshirt :"Automotive designers more than double the size per watt to allow safety barriers, fuses, temperature sensitive, voltage and short circuit safety cutoffs, and cooling passages". Tshirt, Automotive engineers have only recently figured out safer fossil fuel transportation, as learned from the Ford Pinto 30 years ago, and GM trucks of 20 years ago, and are just now moving the fuel tank forward of the rear axle, and within the perimeter of the frame.
All the safety cutouts, cooling passages, and fuses won't help if the battery is damaged during a collision, or in any other physical manner.
I would hate to look back on an accident, to say that it was not severe, and everyone would have walked away with a few scrapes or bruises, but the slurry of Lithium under the back seat hit 3000 degrees in 5 seconds, and the occupants were unfortunately incinerated.
If these automotive engineers continue to follow the same 20-30 year learning curve, I can't imagine how many people will be injured or killed, before they eventually perfect the Li-Ion hybrid vehicle technology.
Even rocket scientists took a decade to figure out that a 100% Oxygen environment, in a space capsule filled with hundreds of switches that produce small sparks when actuated, would eventually cause a fire, killing the astronauts on board.
Lithium is a HIGHLY reactive alkaline metal. It does not like contact with air or water, 2 things you are likely to encounter in an automotive environment.
If you clip a small lithium watch battery with a set of wire cutters(Just an example, I don't advise anyone to actually do this), you get a good flash, and some smoke. Then drop it in a bucket of water, more flash, smoke, and sizzle.
Do you really want 20+ pounds of this stuff in the car with you?
Maybe 15 years down the road the engineers will have developed front, side, rear, and top mounted air bags for the battery pack itself. Then 5-7 years later they will introduce lower powered air bags for the battery, after they determine that the originally designed ones were causing more damage than the collision itself. | |
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XoLiMiT
join:2001-10-04
Newark, NJ | tax well their either doing it to claim it on corporate taxes and create a positive image or to get the tax cut bush gives for hybrid vehicles | |
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
·Comcast
| Re: tax said by XoLiMiT :well their either doing it to claim it on corporate taxes and create a positive image or to get the tax cut bush gives for hybrid vehicles You mean the tax credit Bush originally tried to kill?
The same one that limits benifits for existing sucessful fuel efficient hybrids (the prius being most effected, so far) but gives maximum credit to new "hybrids", even if they are designed to primarily use the electric motor for a power boost, not to increase efficiency (the original purpose of the tax credit) | |
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gar187er
Premium Alcoholic
join:2006-06-24
Dover, DE | ........... i wonder if their new vans will have a/c.....lol...i feel sorry for most verizon techs not having a/c....oh yea and for having GPS tracking.....DAMN THE MAN!!! | |
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FiOS Techs Get Hybrid Vans
