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Vonage Insists It's Business As Usual
Should customers be concerned about the recent legal decisions?
After Vonage was court ordered to pay $58 million to Verizon as a result of patent infringement, the company issued immediate statements to consumers informing them that Vonage service will still continue. The Vonage press release suggests that it is unlikely that the court findings will be upheld, but tells customers that in the “unlikely event” that Vonage does have to pay, the company has the funds to make the payment and still remain in business. Vonage cites several positive indicators that the company will continue to grow including “19 consecutive quarters of double digit revenue growth” but fails to address the fact that the lawsuit decision bars Vonage from using the patented technology which has certainly contributed to the company’s previous growth.
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Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
Premium Member
join:2004-09-11
San Diego, CA

Edrick

Premium Member

Why is it?

That companies only go ahead and sue companies for patent infringements when the company starts to make money is it that they're afraid of some other company actually doing better than them?
cahiatt
Premium Member
join:2001-03-21
Smyrna, GA

cahiatt

Premium Member

Re: Why is it?

Because it isn't worth their time to sue a company for patent infringement if the offending company doesn't have any money to pay or isn't being competitive enough to worry about.

dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA

dodgetech2

Member

Re: Why is it?

said by cahiatt:

Because it isn't worth their time to sue a company for patent infringement if the offending company doesn't have any money to pay or isn't being competitive enough to worry about.
Bingo !!!....
They are cutting into our profits..lets find a way to sue them out of business so we can go on overcharging for phone service ...and no one will have a choice but to pay us

muwahahaha
juggernaut83
join:2004-10-25
Princeton, NC

juggernaut83 to Edrick

Member

to Edrick
vonage sucks.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

Re: Why is it?

Way to miss

that this is the method to end all independent VoIP services

and allow Verizon to reacquire some of their past monopolistic glory days.

Good one there.

NV

ofacesig
join:2007-01-23
Coppell, TX

ofacesig to juggernaut83

Member

to juggernaut83
Vonage is actually quite good. My brother uses it as a second line for his work. It's the cleanest line I've ever heard. Zero background noise or static.
JohnA4
Premium Member
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

JohnA4

Premium Member

Not!!


Vonage was not barred from continuing to use the technology. Rather it had a forward going 5.5% royalty for it's use imposed.
lew_jean
join:2005-05-13
Marietta, GA

1 recommendation

lew_jean

Member

Re: Not!!

Verizon lawyers have requested a permanent injunction barring Vonage from further use of the patented tech, with a hearing date set for March 23. Let the Vonage death watch commence.
alalper
Premium Member
join:2000-08-20
Philadelphia, PA

alalper

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

Their requesting an injunction does not make one automatic. They might not be able to get it.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by alalper:

Their requesting an injunction does not make one automatic. They might not be able to get it.
With many, many people possibly using VoIP as their only phone line, and thus their link to 9-1-1 service, I can't imagine that the court will rule in favor of an injunction.
kherr
Premium Member
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL

kherr

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

Or they could get a thing called a "telephone" that is serviced by 2 copper wires. Like what was used before voip. I'm sure that they aren't going to turn off the voip an hour after the ruling ......

And then there is the "thingy" called a "cell phone" which many people use sole already.

It's not like voip is their only option.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by kherr:

Or they could get a thing called a "telephone" that is serviced by 2 copper wires. Like what was used before voip. I'm sure that they aren't going to turn off the voip an hour after the ruling ......

And then there is the "thingy" called a "cell phone" which many people use sole already.

It's not like voip is their only option.
I'm not saying everyone isn't like that.

We have disconnected all POTS phone lines here, though the wiring remains.

I'm sure there are people out there who using VoIP exclusively---no POTS and no cell.

Technically, any land line we get will technically not be on copper, as we have Fios from Verizon.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by Jeff:



I'm sure there are people out there who using VoIP exclusively---no POTS and no cell.

Well those people are not very bright and they should and will die because they can't call 911. Their neighbors know they are not very bright and will not call 911 for them as they bring down property values.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by batterup:
said by Jeff:

I'm sure there are people out there who using VoIP exclusively---no POTS and no cell.

Well those people are not very bright and they should and will die because they can't call 911. Their neighbors know they are not very bright and will not call 911 for them as they bring down property values.
Are you Verizon employee, or a Sunrocket customer?
NYC Girl
Premium Member
join:2007-02-04
Bronx, NY

NYC Girl

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

Too funny, both of you!!

scrummie02
Bentley
Premium Member
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA

scrummie02 to batterup

Premium Member

to batterup
bzzztt...wrong answer, let's try again.

I have Vonage, have had them for two years, not one POTS working in my household. They state you need to change your address. So if you move, change your address, if you call 911, 911 will find you. It's that simple.

Verizon is doing nothing more than stifling competition and innovation. If that injunction is made, they'll go after others.
NYC Girl
Premium Member
join:2007-02-04
Bronx, NY

NYC Girl to Jeff

Premium Member

to Jeff
I wouldn't recommend that as one would have nothing if the VoIP goes out.

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

1 edit

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by NYC Girl:

I wouldn't recommend that as one would have nothing if the VoIP goes out.
Oh I don't recommend it either. I'm just saying I'm sure there are people out there with VoIP, no POTS and no cell phone.

Here, we have 3 VoIP lines, and 4 cell phones. Plus, a generator hooked up for decent power production during an outage. Not a big deal for us.
NYC Girl
Premium Member
join:2007-02-04
Bronx, NY

NYC Girl

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

You don't need to worry about losing anything, ever !!!

Jeff
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium Member
join:2002-12-24
GMT -5

Jeff

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

said by NYC Girl:

You don't need to worry about losing anything, ever !!!
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but thanks for the vote of confidence.
NYC Girl
Premium Member
join:2007-02-04
Bronx, NY

NYC Girl

Premium Member

Re: Not!!

LOL

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to alalper

MVM

to alalper
It's almost all but certain that the injunction would be stayed pending appeal. Any possible "damage" to Verizon by Vonage not paying royalties is far exceeded by the potential for damage by Vonage. If Vonage does ultimately lose the appeal, they would be responsible for royalties dating back so in the long run Verizon does not lose out on the money in the long run. If Vonage does win, well, Verizon shouldn't have gotten the money in the first place.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc to lew_jean

to lew_jean
That's the backup position for the royalty payments. Kind of like having some muscle standing behind you when you come around to collect "insurance" from the local shopkeepers.

Crazytown
@verizon.net

Crazytown to JohnA4

Anon

to JohnA4
On the 23rd of this Month.. VOIP from anyone other then VZ will be a thing of the Past... Unless someone can figure out how to do VOIP without using Verizon's Network.. Good riddens to all these Free Loaders..

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

I call Shill Troll!

6 Points for first Call!

NV

dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA

dodgetech2 to Crazytown

Member

to Crazytown

Re: Not!!

said by Crazytown :

On the 23rd of this Month.. VOIP from anyone other then VZ will be a thing of the Past... Unless someone can figure out how to do VOIP without using Verizon's Network.. Good riddens to all these Free Loaders..
Thats not true , because on the 22nd Martians are coming to kill us all...
rhexis
join:2002-05-18
Gilbertsville, PA

rhexis to Crazytown

Member

to Crazytown
on the 23rd of this month.. monkeys will fly out of your ass and take a dump on your sister...unless someone can figure out how to diaper the ass monkeys without using your hands..good riddens (sic) to all these ass monkeys...

dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA

dodgetech2 to Crazytown

Member

to Crazytown
said by Crazytown :

On the 23rd of this Month.. VOIP from anyone other then VZ will be a thing of the Past... Unless someone can figure out how to do VOIP without using Verizon's Network.. Good riddens to all these Free Loaders..
just checked my phone and guess what...IT STILL WORKS..LMAO.......

better luck next time..:)

Dobs
@comcast.net

Dobs

Anon

Vonage

Verizon wants to force vonage to up its rates. That way vonage will be doomed in the long run

PolarBear03
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium Member
join:2005-01-03

PolarBear03

Premium Member

Why did it take so long?

Vonage started doing business in January 2001. Verizon didn't sue them until June 19, 2006.

What took them so long? It took Verizon five and a half years to figure out Vonage was using one of their patents? I doubt it. This just shows Verizon doesn't have their s#!t together, and probably that their claim is unfounded.

I know nothing about the technology involved, who invented it, and who uses it. But I do know that if someone stole something of mine and was using it without my permission, I wouldn't wait 5.5 years to do something about it.

I call bulls#!t.

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Why did it take so long?

Maybe they were letting Vonage do the beta testing for them? Or maybe they waited until Vonage had enough money to make suing them worth while? It all stinks when big corporations start stirring up the ____!

BodyBumper
join:2004-06-21
Beverly Hills, CA

BodyBumper to PolarBear03

Member

to PolarBear03
or maybe someone didn't actually get to it until 2005-2006.

CrazyTown
@verizon.net

CrazyTown to PolarBear03

Anon

to PolarBear03
If Vonage was paying to use Verizon's Network it wouldnt be a big Deal.. Why would any company think they could sell a service over someone elses network that competes with the service they sell.. Anyone using VOIP Tech and selling it, better take the money and run.. Its over for them.. Even without an injunction it would be hard for the court to stop Verizon from just stopping Vonage traffic over the Verizon Network, or any other VOIP provider.. Every VOIP provider is using the same Tech, so they all have violated the Patent.. Its OVER for VOIP..

•••••••••
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1 to PolarBear03

Premium Member

to PolarBear03
Well, since Verizon didn't own the technology until January 2006 after the MCI merger completed, it wasn't 5 years but around 5 months. That would be about the amount of time to do due dilengence before filing suit.

Who knows why MCI never filed on it.

PolarBear03
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium Member
join:2005-01-03

PolarBear03

Premium Member

Re: Why did it take so long?

Well, since MCI never filed suit, and Verizon just happened to acquire the patent with the acquisition of MCI, the suit should be thrown out.

Say a friend has a collection of 100 CDs. Five years ago, someone steals 2 of them. Yesterday, the friend sells me the (supposed) 100 CDs. Should it be right for me to sue/file charges/whatever against the guy who stole the 2 CDs from the friend 5 years ago, even though the friend didn't seem to care they were stolen?

I know it is somewhat apples to oranges as we're talking about real property versus patents, but you see my point, right?
Kiwi88
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Bryant, AR

Kiwi88 to cmaenginsb1

Premium Member

to cmaenginsb1
I have Used the Vonage service since way back, I always *Cringed* with their AD campaign; realizing it cost customers. If Vonage had kept a lower profile, and the idiots who were 'Ironed-Hat' with the e911 concept, I'm sure they could have ducked this radar scan.

On the other side, Vonage is NOT the only VoIP to utilize the technology they incorporated; so, are all others now open to a court action? Looks like double jeopardy to me.

Sometimes innovations should be coveted to those that understand the gain. When the idiot population tries to play, everyone suffers.

datguy
@verizon.net

datguy to PolarBear03

Anon

to PolarBear03
verizon didnt know about until vonage went public with their IPO and released details of their business.

They should have stayed private.. foolish them

MTBikerChris
Premium Member
join:2001-08-28
Erie, CO

1 edit

MTBikerChris

Premium Member

RIP VONAGE

I knew this day would come sooner then later.In due time Vonage will be gone. Look TWC/CC have more then 4 mill voip lines together and is growing.

The cable companies will win this one.

thender2
Glamour Profession
Premium Member
join:2004-05-16
Staten Island, NY

thender2

Premium Member

Re: RIP VONAGE

Just like you knew FISION would reach 1.3 million people in a month, back in 2005.

YEAH RIGHT!
Rick5
Premium Member
join:2001-02-06

Rick5

Premium Member

One thing I'm not clear on

And that is can Vonage continue to use VZ's technology if the judge grants the injunction but they pay the royalty payment (5.5%) to VZ for the use of it?

That would seem to me to be a major question because Vonage doesn't seem to have a workaround in place as of yet.

If that's the case, then I can see Vonages statements as being accurate that worst case, customers will stay connected if they pay the payments.

But, if the judge says they can't use it..that would seem to jeopardize their service if they can't get that stayed AND if they can't pay the 5.5% to continue using it.

The 5.5% part of the jury verdict doesn't seem clear to me as to where and when it might kick in.

rudnicke
Premium Member
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL

1 recommendation

rudnicke

Premium Member

FIOS

Wow. Not only am I paying taxes and fees galore on my vonage account, but now I'm going to subsidize Verizon's rollout of FIOS to the rich folk.

If Vonage makes it through this, I'll be amazed.

ifarrell
join:2000-08-10
Willow Spring, NC

ifarrell

Member

Vonage Insists It's Business As Usual

Most companies usually say that just before they go into bankruptcy.
They would have to pass an awful lot of that cost on to customers to stay solvent in the near future.
Isn't Vonage still in the red after all these years?

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

I love this place.

TPC 1 leaches 0. Can you pay me NOW?
Kiwi88
Premium Member
join:2003-05-26
Bryant, AR

Kiwi88

Premium Member

Re: I love this place.

Crystal based radio, anyone? I know that dates me, but....

I'm tired of the BS patents, if reality kicked in we would not even be on line!

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ

batterup

Premium Member

Re: I love this place.

said by Kiwi88:

Crystal based radio, anyone? I know that dates me, but....

I'm tired of the BS patents, if reality kicked in we would not even be on line!
Let me count the patents; the transistor, laser and the decibel. Plus thousands more issued to Bell Labs. Now what did Bell Labs have to do with all of them? They had to place them in the public domain because they were a regulated monopoly. No more, they now belong to TPC and TPC alone.
Ma Bell is dead and yet the people bitch, bitch and pay.

Now go ahead little children, follow the Pied Piper MCI/WorldCom/Teletruth and a thousand leaches. How far can America fall compared to the world?
batterup

batterup

Premium Member

It is only the beginning.

Sprint/Nextell is next in line to sue Vonage over patent infringements. Can you hear men now? NO.

Trinijoy
Premium Member
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ

2 edits

Trinijoy

Premium Member

Yeah whatever

It's about who has the bigger penis.

I think whoever sues another company just to stfile competition is a coward, a downright coward.
Antonlm
join:2004-09-15
Birmingham, AL

1 edit

Antonlm

Member

Vonage was their own worst enemy not Verizon

From the way some have posted you wouldn't even know that Vonage put themselves in this position. It almost seems like Verizon, through some backdoor politics, pulled the rug from under them. Verizon deserves whatever monetary reward they get and vonage deserves whatever they get.

edit: spelling

gwion
wild colonial boy

join:2000-12-28
Pittsburgh, PA

1 edit

gwion

Not a real problem for customers...

... VOIP's still a promising new tech, but investors should hang garlic and crosses over their beds, tonight. I don't for one second believe this was a "bogus" patent case. I genuinely believe they're infringing other peoples' patents, or the court wouldn't have agreed and found against them. Verizon very much intends to be a player in VOIP, if you ask me. Verizon's characterizing themselves not as a "plain vanilla ILEC", but as an integrated communications provider. They've been very proactive, and I can't believe this hasn't been many months in planning, which would include research, development and securing patents.

I warned on this company, getting back to the investor angle, months ago, and suggested that the best thing we can say about VG is that a stock can't fall below "zero". Bottom line, they're in the right business, at the right time, but they're rushing to go public, and rushing to go mainstream. VOIP is just not mainstream, yet, it has a lot of rough edges that need working out, and the target audience isn't (yet) "80% of the American public". They would have done a great deal better, I think, staying a private equity firm, for a while, developing their business plan, then taking themselves public. Instead, they've chosen a strategy that makes them a prime candidate to become just one more roadkill along the information superhighway... either that, or they want to be a "take out" target from the start... perhaps this is just Verizon's way of "calling a bluff"? Take you out? Forget it, you stole our implementations... we'll just take you down... but I digress.

VOIP is a promising tech... but Vonage isn't VOIP, they're just one company trying to leverage the technology. One company, in my humble opinion, trying to bite off too much, too soon, with an as-yet still developing medium.

PS - and yes, my money's where my big mouth is --- I've been short Vonage literally since they went public, before Jim Cramer, even, who seems to be in complete agreement with me, from what I've gotten from his commentaries... just wanted to point that out. I might be wrong, and, crazy as it sounds, I hope I am, for the technology's sake. But my gut tells me I'm right, and it will be somebody else, not Vonage, who really penetrates this emerging new market space...

•••