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Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Ok so what about stations that pay nothing like a few I listen to that run on listener donations to stay afloat? if the RIAA doesn't know about you or something do you slide under the radar?
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"Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious."- Alan Minter, Boxer"I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada."- Britney Spears, Pop Singer | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY | Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? I'm sure some stations would be able to slide under the radar, but the minute they were found out they would owe the RIAA huge fees. It's not a situation that many Internet radio stations will choose to put themselves in. | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA | The most important voice, NPR, will. And I'm sure, will represent ALL the public stations.
BTW, why are your avatars so...obnoxious? Does it reflect...  | |
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manfmmd
Premium
join:2003-01-14
Earth
clubs:
 ·AT&T Southwest
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? said by cableties  :The most important voice, NPR, will. And I'm sure, will represent ALL the public stations. BTW, why are your avatars so...obnoxious? Does it reflect... Perhaps your NPR station is different, but mine usually plays all classical music in the public domain that requires no royalties be paid.
[rant]
I may need to listen more, I enjoy the classical music, but when the talk shows come on, it almost puts me to sleep. Their "content" isn't bad per se (I'm politically right leaning and if you didn't know it NPR is traditionally left leaning), it's informative at times, but the delivery???  Who wants to listen to a monotone delivery with a complete lack of emotion.. They should not be so stoic in their delivery and at least pretend that what they are talking about affects them emotionally.
[/rant]
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huh? | AIM | The beauty of ignorance is indescribable. | |
| | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Wrong. Not only do ASCAP and BMI claim copyrights on arrangements of just about any classical piece you can think of, the performances themselves are all copyrighted too. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | viperlmw
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| NPR said by supergirl :Dump NPR. Taxes pay for it. With all the news out there, why do with need a taxpayer paid station? Only news rejects work there. Considering how bad CNN's ratings are, how hard is it to land a job there? NPR is a taxpayer rip-off. I'd rather pay taxes for NPR than buy products advertised on FOX noise. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Warez_Zealot
Mr. Misanthrope
join:2006-04-19
St Catharines, ON
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? said by supergirl :said by russotto :Wrong. Not only do ASCAP and BMI claim copyrights on arrangements of just about any classical piece you can think of, the performances themselves are all copyrighted too. Dump NPR. Taxes pay for it. With all the news out there, why do with need a taxpayer paid station? Only news rejects work there. Considering how bad CNN's ratings are, how hard is it to land a job there? NPR is a taxpayer rip-off. You might want to research the topic before commenting on "all the new out there"
»www.cjr.org/tools/owners/ | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| These are not royalties on the work itself; they are royalties on public performance of those works. So unless the station is performing the work using their own orchestra or are playing a public domain recording, of which there are few, then the RIAA will be in the station's pockets rummaging around for what amounts to the yearly budget for some.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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Jehu
dejapoo
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA | No shit... Nothing like being smacked in the face to wake up. | |
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Sarah
Premium,ExMod 2002-05
join:2001-01-09
Cambridge, MA
clubs:
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? said by supergirl :TCH - apparently you like the RIAA sticking it to Net radio, but why isn't the RIAA not sticking it to over the air radio or satellite radio? Payola scandals plague over the air stations as of late. Maybe the RIAA should be paying Net radio too? That's exactly why they're sticking it to net radio and not OTA or satellite. We don't play what they want us to play and we don't take their bribes...
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| | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA | Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Time to put on the eyepatch and run up the Jolly Roger, then, because there's no doubt the RIAA has the money to buy the copyright board and get Internet radio out of business or under its thumb. | |
| | | rustyhodge
join:2007-03-21
San Francisco, CA
| They are sticking it to over the air and satellite. You haven't seen all the fighting between Sirius, XM and the RIAA? Do a little googling. They're fighting over royalty rates right now as well.
And the NAB and the RIAA have been fighting for a long time. The RIAA has stated that they want over-the-airt radio to pay as well, but over-the-air is legally exempted in the copyright act. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if the RIAA isnt carefull they will just spawn Pirate Internet Radio. if people are willing to dodge the FCC with illegal transmitters dont think people wont try and dodge the RIAA with illegal server streams.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL | You're wrong this time, Tom. The independent Internet broadcasters participated as a group through representation and were ignored (just like in 2002).
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? said by RadioDoc :You're wrong this time, Tom. The independent Internet broadcasters participated as a group through representation and were ignored (just like in 2002). If they participated, then why aren't there any documents from them filed on the government web site?
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
edit:
March 21st, @02:03PM
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? You can do better than that.
edit: See below for the real participation information you carefully avoided finding.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? said by supergirl :said by RadioDoc :You're wrong this time, Tom. The independent Internet broadcasters participated as a group through representation and were ignored (just like in 2002). Don't confuse TCH with facts. RIAA people don't like facts. It messes up their bullsh*t arguments. I don't see any facts. Just an unsubstantiated claim.
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My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Okay, TCH, explain how the Copyright Board's "ruling" was damn near the same thing the RIAA submitted? I know Indie radio submitted since it is on their websites. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | rustyhodge
join:2007-03-21
San Francisco, CA
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Those are the links for the SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES.
»www.loc.gov/crb/proceedings/2005···05-1.pdf is the proper link, and lists who got involved.
Also, it cost a lot of money to be part of the hearings, so many stations couldn't afford to participate on their own; however many of the larger "indies" did, and many smaller stations that did not officially participate paid into a legal defense fund for the small webcasters defense.
»www.loc.gov/crb/proceedings/2005···05-1.pdf
B. PARTIES TO THE PROCEEDING
The parties to this proceeding are: (i) Digital Media Association and certain of its
member companies that participated in this proceeding, namely: America Online, Inc. (“AOL”),
Yahoo!, Inc. (Yahoo!”), Microsoft, Inc. (“Microsoft”), and Live365, Inc. (“Live 365”)
(collectively referred to as “DiMA”); (ii) “Radio Broadcasters”(this designation was adopted byB. PARTIES TO THE PROCEEDING
The parties to this proceeding are: (i) Digital Media Association and certain of its
member companies that participated in this proceeding, namely: America Online, Inc. (“AOL”),
Yahoo!, Inc. (Yahoo!”), Microsoft, Inc. (“Microsoft”), and Live365, Inc. (“Live 365”)
(collectively referred to as “DiMA”); (ii) “Radio Broadcasters”(this designation was adopted by
the parties): namely, Bonneville International Corp., Clear Channel Communications, Inc.,
National Religious Broadcasters Music License Committee (“NRBMLC”), Susquehanna Radio
Corp.; (iii) SBR Creative Media, Inc. (“SBR”) and the “Small Commercial Webcasters” (this
designation was adopted by the parties): namely, AccuRadio, LLC, Digitally Imported, Inc.,
Radioio.com LLC, Discombobulated, LLC, 3WK, LLC, Radio Paradise, Inc.; (iv) National
Public Radio, Inc. (“NPR”), Corporation for Public Broadcasting-Qualified Stations (“CPB”),
National Religious Broadcasters Noncommercial Music License Committee (“NRBNMLC”),
Collegiate Broadcasters, Inc. (“CBI”), Intercollegiate Broadcasting System, Inc., (“IBS”), and
Harvard Radio Broadcasting, Inc. (“WHRB”); (v) Royalty Logic, Inc. (“RLI”); and (vi)
SoundExchange, Inc. (“SoundExchange”).
DiMA, Radio Broadcasters, Small Commercial Webcasters, SBR, NPR, CPB,
NRBNMLC, CBI, IBS and WHRB are sometimes referred to collectively as “the Services.” The
Services are Internet webcasters or broadcast radio simulcasters that each employ a technology
known as streaming, but comprise a range of different business models and music programming.
DiMA and certain of its member companies that participated in the proceeding (namely: AOL,
Yahoo!, Microsoft and Live 365), Radio Broadcasters, SBR and Small Commercial Webcasters
are sometimes referred to collectively as “Commercial Webcasters.” NPR, CPB, NRBNMLC,
CBI, IBS and WHRB are sometimes referred to collectively as “Noncommercial Webcasters.” | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Thank you. I was going to hunt those down but had a paying client call me. Something Tom doesn't have to worry about now.
That list is certainly representative of independent webcasters participating in the proceeding.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the RIAA is so Evil that they have sued stores who play CDs instead of signing up for Muzak or playing the radio.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? You can't legally play the radio in a store...nor can you play it over your telephone system's on-hold function...without a performance license. Did you know that?
CD playing is expressly verboten without that same license.
Muzak is a licensed service, so you are paying indirectly with that.
The whole thing is insane.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? It is NOT the RIAA who sues over playing the radio in a store or playing a CD on hold. It is ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC, the OTHER music mafia, representing songwriters and composers. They go into a public place (restaurant, store, whatever) and listen for music. If they hear anything on their (enormous) list, they go to the owner and they offer him a deal -- pay thousands of dollars for an ASCAP (or whoever) license, or get sued for hundreds of thousands. If the victim doesn't pay up, they do indeed sue, and usually win (it's good to have the laws in your pocket). They've been doing this for longer than the RIAA has.
Like the RIAA, they're ALSO known for screwing the people they represent, distributing their spoils according to a secret formula that assures the top people get all the royalties and those further down the list get literally nothing.
Another game they play is one with arrangements. Suppose your venue plays only classical (public domain) music. Not so fast -- they claim copyrights on many different arrangements on the music. And if you don't have a license, they'll demand that _you_ prove that all the music played in your venue was performed according to a public domain arrangement. If you don't (and you're unlikely to be able to), they sue, and win, because they can claim they own all the popular arrangements and the chance of you using all public domain ones is small.
They have lost a few battles about radio play in smaller establishments, but the rules are pretty arcane. | |
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RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time? Actually, we're both right. The composers and writers come at them as well via ASCAP et. al. as you succinctly describe.
I didn't mean to say the RIAA had an exclusive on racketeering. They've just been a lot more aggressive about it lately.
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Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | oh man then the staples i worked in got off so lucky, we didnt have a Muzak system so people would bring in CDs and we cranked them out of the computer speaker display.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| thats pretty sad that playing a CD in a shop is considered public performance, its not like people come to one store over another because on plays the beatles and one plays the stones.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Jehu
dejapoo
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA | Careful, Kids Before you get yer rant on, try to remember that fees imposed upon internet radio are issued by the U.S. Copyright Royalty Board, not the RIAA. | |
| |
See 7 replies to this post | |
kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
clubs:
| If they want to leave money on the table...... by forcing these internet radio royalty rates here, they are more stupid than i thought. If this does go through, it will most certainly spell the end of the dozen or so internet stations that quite frankly turned me back onto music. I will miss them terribly.
But i do have to believe that internet radio won't be gone- just not here in the USA. Creating opportunities for our member friends in Europe, Canada, Mexico, and every other point on the globe to fill the void.
Let's hope reason prevails. | |
| | 
froggers
@btcentralplus.com
| Re: If they want to leave money on the table...... Dont believe that
As soon as the riaa have got what they want UK and all the other greedy vultures will home in like bees round a honey pot. These rule's will follow round and affect the rest of the globe. This will create a whole new broadcasting world out there on the net of pirate stations galore or the riaa will all of a sudden wake up to the fact that it will affect there artists sales to such an extreme level very qiuckly they will see how much they shot themselves up the arse.
After all the net stations are giving over there streams by playing there music FREE ADVERTISING OF THERE PRODUCTS SO WHY DONT WE ALL SEND THEM INVOICES FOR THE ADVERTISING SPACE THAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO PAY. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if the FCC cant stop pirate radio. the copyright goons will never stop internet radio. the difference is its alot harder to send someone to prison over "Pirate" internet radio.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| stomp357
join:2003-04-13
Lake Charles, LA
·AT&T Southeast
| More money for the RIAA I sometimes stream music on Shoutcast. Since I can only upload 512kbps (actually 400kbps with overhead). That means I can only support 2, or 3 listeners at once. Will the RIAA be suing me as well? I'm sure I'd be eroding music sales with my criminal actions.  | |
| robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
 ·Cox VOIP
·Cox HSI
| All about greed You people need to wake up. The CRB is taking us for a ride. I've never seen such greed in my entire life. Why would they want to do this? CONTROL. Only those with big money and those who can afford backdoors to cut a deal will be able to stay on will do this.
You people need to wake up before it's too late. Call your congressmen and tell them to decline this.
-Rob | |
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Hope For Internet Radio
Will internet broadcasters actually follow up this time?
