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story category Judge Orders Injunction Against Vonage
Then puts order on hold for two weeks
(old news - 02:16PM Friday Mar 23 2007)
tags: legal · business · trouble · VoIP
Tipped by kapil See Profile
On the heels of their patent court loss against Verizon, a federal judge today granted a permanent injunction against Vonage. He added, though, that he would hold off on signing the order for two weeks while Vonage organizes their appeal. The injunction would prevent Vonage from connecting to the PSTN, unless technological workarounds could be found. Vonage stocks stopped trading today after the announcement triggered a 6.2% drop.

The Judge says that the monetary damages awarded Verizon, which included a cash payout of $58 million and a 5.5% royalty rate on each Vonage customer per month, were not sufficient. According to the judge, they do "not prevent continued erosion of the client base of the plaintiff." Verizon lawyers say the telco is "suffering irreparable harm" from Vonage's patent infringement, losing hundreds of thousands of customers to its competitor.

Related:
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  2. Vonage Owes Verizon $120 Million
  3. Vonage Faces Patent Infringement Claim by Nortel
  4. T-Mobile Sues Starbucks Over AT&T WiFi Giveaway
  5. Solar Wi-Fi Plan Ends In Lawsuit
  6. MediaDefender Makes Both Legal and Illegal Downloads Available
  7. Verizon Lobbyist Tom Tauke Pretends Up Is Down
  8. NebuAD Hit Hard By PR Disaster
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compugeek
Have you pooped today?
Premium
join:2002-07-30
Pickerington, OH

Oh Crap!!!

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.

Geek
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TK Junk Mail
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Margate City, NJ
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edit:
March 23rd, @02:02PM

Re: Oh Crap!!!

said by compugeek See Profile :

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.

Geek
Even if Vonage loses the appeal and the injunction is enforced in 2 weeks, it gives Vonage enough time to switch their current technology to a non-infringing technology. At least they claimed they could do that, even if they lost the case. »www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···fer=home
Vonage, based in Holmdel, New Jersey, said it is developing ``technical workarounds'' to avoid infringing Verizon's patents. The company expects to win a 120-day stay of today's order from Hilton or an appeals court, allowing it to pursue an appeal of the jury verdict, spokeswoman Brooke Schulz said in an interview. Hilton will hear Vonage's request April 6.

``We are confident Vonage customers will not experience service interruptions or other changes as a result of this litigation,'' Mike Snyder, Vonage's chief executive officer, said in a statement.
But if they do switch to something else, there will probably be disruptions while it is rolled out.
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Phattieg

join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL

Re: Oh Crap!!!

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

said by compugeek See Profile :

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.

Geek
Even if Vonage loses the appeal and the injunction is enforced in 2 weeks, it gives Vonage enough time to switch their current technology to a non-infringing technology. At least they claimed they could do that, even if they lost the case. »www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···fer=home
Vonage, based in Holmdel, New Jersey, said it is developing ``technical workarounds'' to avoid infringing Verizon's patents. The company expects to win a 120-day stay of today's order from Hilton or an appeals court, allowing it to pursue an appeal of the jury verdict, spokeswoman Brooke Schulz said in an interview. Hilton will hear Vonage's request April 6.

``We are confident Vonage customers will not experience service interruptions or other changes as a result of this litigation,'' Mike Snyder, Vonage's chief executive officer, said in a statement.
But if they do switch to something else, there will probably be disruptions while it is rolled out.
Whoo hooo, whoo hoo hoooo. (humms Vonage theme)... I think they stole the technology, just like they tried to steal $150 from me for an adapter I returned USING THEIR UPS LABELS.
JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA

If they had a work around, you'd see it by now.

JammerMan79
Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC

Re: Oh Crap!!!

agreed... If they already had a workaround that actually worked don't you think they would have already implemented it?
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TK Junk Mail
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said by JohnA See Profile :

If they had a work around, you'd see it by now.
Not necessarily. The workaround may mean paying money to license another companies(instead of Verizon's) patents. Or it may mean a more costly way to route calls to the off the internet termination points. They wouldn't implement the workaround, if it is more costly, unless they had no other choice.
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Rick
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Waterbury, CT
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Re: Oh Crap!!!

Exactly TCH. I think what people are misunderstanding here is that Vonage has not yet lost this case by any means in the legal sense of the word AND they are still saying that they have not violated anyone patents with the way things now stand.

And so, their position today is they aren't changing a thing unless they absolutely have or are forced to.

Obviously, changing things around of this order of magnitude will carry with it risks for service disruptions.
And, there's always the potential for whatever they switch over to just not working as it should, or as good as what they have today.

But, if that's what it takes, then I suspect they do have workarounds in mind.

I hope they prevail and do well. Speaking as a customer, I think their service is great in every regard.

It's a real money saver over pots/ld of old and that's obviously what's winning them over so many customers.
Not Verizons tired old pots technology.
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
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Re: Oh Crap!!!

I have one thing to add... if Verizon's purchased technology from the corrupt and bankrupt MCI/Worldcom/MCI owner is so dang great, then why aren't they using it themselves?

It's amazing that Verizon's awesome patented technology worth 58 million that Vonage stole is causing Verizon harm by lost customers... I have to laugh.. they are loosing customers not because of the technology.. they are loosing customers because Vonage is selling a service at a more appealing rate.

Change the technology Vonage uses (c'mon Vonage.. change one part of it.. just one and avoid the patent) and continue to sell the service at the same price. Vonage will still bleed.
--
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Rick
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join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
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This whole injunction might be a moot point anyway. Vonage is reportedly saying they have workarounds to these patent issues.

"Vonage has reassured its 2.2 million customers that service will not be affected by the court case, indicating that it would deploy different technologies to work around the patents in question."
»business.bostonherald.com/techno···d=190427

I'm like you, very happy with my service and I hope to see them win and go on to bigger and better things!
--
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CrazyTown

@verizon.net

Re: Oh Crap!!!

There is not a work around.. Everyone talking about this is crazy.. How can you have a work around to get to the Pots customers House.. None of the VOIP Providers have a way to get to the Pots Customer House.. Not even the cable companies.. Vonage is cheap because they dont pay anything to maintain the facilites they are leaching from.. Vonage is just a Leach and everyone that uses them is part of the problem that is costing people jobs everyday.. Verizon's VOIP service isnt that much more expensive then Vonage, even though Vonage has nothing invested in the Service they provide and Verizon has a lot invested. If Verizon is making $5/mnth off the service and Vonage is making $15/mnth, then why is everyone so Pro-Vonage.. I wish you could just go down to the Car Dealership and take a car then sell it and keep the money, while the car dealership pays for the car. That is basically what Vonage is doing with Verizon..
bobny1

join:2004-09-10
Bronx, NY

Re: Oh Crap!!!

It is the same F*****G crap over and over again!. The music industry, phone companies, cable companies, all freaking monopolies keep squashing progress in this country with the help of crooked judges and politicians. Wake up America!. It think is time for revolution!.
fallenangel

join:2005-10-04
USA

Well lets see... you must be a coward. Posting replies as anonymous. What type of jobs have been lost? I see more innovations b/c of Voip. Verizon may have their own VoIP service - but according to the reviews, which service sucks? Oh thats right, Voicewing. And by the way, if you remember correctly Crazytown (you Verizon supporter you), Verizon didn't even get into VoIP on their own. They had to buy Voicewing and rebrand it as their own.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
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said by compugeek See Profile :

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.
Oh don't worry, you'll keep your vonage, it'll be just about six or seven dollars more when vonage passes its additional costs all down to the subscriber.
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dodgetech2

join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·Vonage

Re: Oh Crap!!!

said by dvd536 See Profile :

said by compugeek See Profile :

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.
Oh don't worry, you'll keep your vonage, it'll be just about six or seven dollars more when vonage passes its additional costs all down to the subscriber.
And that will still make it about 50% less than Verizon......

Jeffrey
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·magicjack.com
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·Vonage

said by dvd536 See Profile :

said by compugeek See Profile :

I have had Vonage for 4 years. I don't know anything else anymore. I hope this gets tossed on appeal or I am screwed. I don't want to go back to a normal POTS line.
Oh don't worry, you'll keep your vonage, it'll be just about six or seven dollars more when vonage passes its additional costs all down to the subscriber.
My Vonage service is so good (3 lines here), that I'd still be a subscriber even if they increased the bill on each line by $7.
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supergirl

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»electronics.howstuffworks.com/ip···ony2.htm

Bascially, when you call from Vonage it hits their softswitch to find the IP address of the number you are calling. A softswitch is basically a massive database of phone numbers and their IP addresses. It changes as IPs change. Once the softswitch figures out where to go, usually in milliseconds, rings the number. Faster path is to another VOIP number. The tricky part is the path to a PSTN (public switched telephone network). The QoS problem of VOIP is the multiple paths the packets take in reaching their destination. It does find the closest connection point and the terminates to that PTSN, which is then connected to that POTS number. The system has to convert the digital signal of VOIP to the analog signal of the POTS line. Net Congestion, or even many softswitches, can cause all kinds of problems unless the VOIP is on a dedicated network (like Cable VOIP). Once it hits the PTSN and connects, the call is at a termination point--call connected.

So, a VOIP call, if properly routed, can bypass a lot of the PTSN but not all of it. Hence, it does terminate at the closest access point, which is usually the phone company's network. Hence, the phone company is basically paying for the connection probably in their intralata system.

Now, FIOS uses softswitching but is dedicated and digital until it terminates at an analog switch. The more dedicated the network the higher the cost.

Now, if everything was fiber and digital, Vonage would not be but an irritant to the telcos since the cost of connection to a digital phone is a heck of a lot cheaper since it is just a better IP phone system. Copper POTS is costly to maintain so termination fees are higher.

So, that is basically how it all works.

paulhaskew
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hah!

irrepairable??? If the friggin Bell's hadn't been so damn greedy in the first place and trying to force their stick up everyone's ass then we wouldn't need alternatives like this...
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morbo
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Re: hah!

bingo.

yock
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said by paulhaskew See Profile :

irrepairable??? If the friggin Bell's hadn't been so damn greedy in the first place and trying to force their stick up everyone's ass then we wouldn't need alternatives like this...
How do you justify that statement? They defended a legitimately obtained patent. It seems as if you advocate that they abandon their legal patent protections in favor of helping a competitor break patent law.

This country certainly needs patent reform, but this is a good example of properly applied patent law.
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cdru
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Re: hah!

I think his comment about being so greedy is from essentially identical services, but VoIP providers charging significantly less then what the traditional telcos do.

I can get the standard POTS service with the usual bells and whistles for around $45/month after taxes + LD charges from Verizon. I can get the same features and then some for around $10 from ViaTalk.
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yock
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Re: hah!

That's great, but you don't know how much it cost the innovator to implement their patented technology. ViaTalk might only be able to provide those low rates because they're standing on the shoulders of geniuses. They didn't do any of the grunt work developing the technology, they're just implementing it and reaping the benefits.
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cdru
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Re: hah!

said by yock See Profile :

That's great, but you don't know how much it cost the innovator to implement their patented technology. ViaTalk might only be able to provide those low rates because they're standing on the shoulders of geniuses. They didn't do any of the grunt work developing the technology, they're just implementing it and reaping the benefits.
I'm not arguing that Verizon doesn't deserve the royalties if the patent is upheld (although I don't believe it will nor should it).

I'm mearly commenting to the original post by paulhaskew See Profile that said the original Bells were greedy and that in some ways brought in on themselves.

They accepted numerous government handouts, continually charge users "required" fees such as 911 and Universal Service Fees which are essentially fees they keep but are just part of doing business.

They long ago could have adapted and reduced their costs significantly. The new kid on the block comes in and can provide similar service but at a fraction of the price. Instead of adapting with the competition, they researched and patented other promising methods so that if the competition used it, they would get a cut of the royalties. If they were cheaper in the first place, significant competition likely would have come.
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yock
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Re: hah!

You'll get no argument from me. I'm not defending their business practices, but to imply that Vonage should be allowed to exploit their innovation just because the Bells are poorly run companies is a fallacy. It only creates more problems.
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cdru
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Re: hah!

said by yock See Profile :

You'll get no argument from me. I'm not defending their business practices, but to imply that Vonage should be allowed to exploit their innovation just because the Bells are poorly run companies is a fallacy. It only creates more problems.
Agreed. That being said, I don't think Verizon's patents will hold up as there were packet-switched to circuit-switched VoIP-like implementations long before Verizon filed for their patent. I think the patent will be overturned on review.
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fiberguy
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Um.. Verizon invented nothing. They obtained the right to the patent in the purchase of MCI. I really don't think I have seen Verizon pushing their Voip service.

This is how I see it.. it's the gas companies buying a patented on how to run a car on water and then shelving it so they can continue to sell over priced, outdated expensive gasoline.

VZ may own/hold the patent to Voip, but they aren't implementing it, are they? If a patent holder wants to horde the patent and not use it, I think it should become public domain VERY quick so that the innovative process can progress.
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rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage

I think he meant if the ILECs wouldn't have charged first-born-child rates for POTS and then $10 extra for every caller-id, call waiting, voice mail option thingie, Vonage would have never been. We'd all be happy with our $25/month unlimited LD POTS service. If that's what he meant, I couldn't agree more.

Camelot One
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If you can't offer a better product...sue

So I guess Verizon is finally taking VoIP seriously. They refuse to offer the same pricing, even though they could. They refuse to offer the same features, though they could. So.....just sue the competition out of business.

What a great system we have.

Mind you I say this despite my hatred of Vonage.
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supergirl

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Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

POTS lines can't compete with VOIP since VOIP uses the Bell network to finish a lot of calls. VOIP is not paying the true cost of phone calls. POTS is only a 10-12% biz, which is the corporate average.

The one with the infrastructure always wins. Good for VZ.

Judge really slammed Vonage said monetary damages "does not prevent continued erosion of the client base of the plaintiff."
rradina

join:2000-08-08
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·Charter Pipeline
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Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

said by supergirl See Profile :

POTS lines can't compete with VOIP since VOIP uses the Bell network to finish a lot of calls. VOIP is not paying the true cost of phone calls. POTS is only a 10-12% biz, which is the corporate average.
So does POTS not pay the true cost of a call when it's made to my Vonage number?

supergirl

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Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

said by rradina See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

POTS lines can't compete with VOIP since VOIP uses the Bell network to finish a lot of calls. VOIP is not paying the true cost of phone calls. POTS is only a 10-12% biz, which is the corporate average.
So does POTS not pay the true cost of a call when it's made to my Vonage number?
There is no cost. That's why Vonage and VOIP is so cheap. No termination fees coming or going. If you can prove otherwise, let me know. But, that is the understanding of Net VOIP. POTS customers in FL pay a $6.50 FCC Access Charge (access to LD networks) and other hidden stuff in LD, which pays for the termination costs.
rradina

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Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

I thought the TA 1996 act required the calling party's carrier to pay termination fees to the destination party's carrier. Doesn't Vonage use CLECs to hold every Vonage number?

I don't think Vonage is as different from POTS as folks think it is. The two differences are Vonage uses the Internet for the last mile (from the CLEC CO to your house) and because they can keep your call on the Internet and terminate it as close as possible to the destination number, they don't incur as many or any LD interconnet fees.

I would guess a portion of the Vonage fee goes to the CLEC that owns the POTS number on behalf of Vonage. As a CLEC, they have infrastructure tied to the POTS system and pay interconnect fees just like an ILEC.

Regardless, if VOIP was in some way not paying its weight, one would think the ILECs would be losing money hand over fist. Large corporations also use VOIP over their private networks to likewise deny the telco of revenue streams. If all this VOIP were ruining the POTS infrastructure, I would think the ILECs would be posting huge losses instead of using their massive war chests to plan mega mergers.

I think VOIP destroyed the LD companies, not the POTS companies.

supergirl

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Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

said by rradina See Profile :

I thought the TA 1996 act required the calling party's carrier to pay termination fees to the destination party's carrier. Doesn't Vonage use CLECs to hold every Vonage number?
Local Number Portability is what you are looking for. Termination fees aren't paid there. The customer owns the number until they quit paying pretty much. Who holds Vonage's numbers? It appears Vonage: »www.vonage-forum.com/ftopic5008.html.

Now a carrier can refuse to port if:

You haven't paid your bill on time

You disconnected service

The paperwork to port doesn't match the exact customer info with the carrier.

That's all FCC-approved.
battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

"The paperwork to port doesn't match the exact customer info with the carrier."

Carriers use this to drag out ports. They pass the paper work back and fourth as a stall tatic. During the paper work war the losing carrier sends in their customer retention drones to try and save the account. I see this happen first hand very often.
rradina

join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
·Vonage

I'm not talking about portability. I'm talking about inter-carrier termination fees. I don't think Vonage has any facilities to interconnect POTS with VOIP. I think they contract the interconnect to CLECs that have a telephone switch in major area codes. Using that network of CLEC contracts, the Internet and apparently techniques that infringe upon Verizon patents, they became a national telephone carrier.
xsiddalx

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Chicago, IL
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said by rradina See Profile :

I thought the TA 1996 act required the calling party's carrier to pay termination fees to the destination party's carrier. Doesn't Vonage use CLECs to hold every Vonage number?
Exactly. If we are talking "Local Exchange Carriers".

i.e.
The intent of local competition:
Bell 1 serves Customer A (you)
CLEC 1 serves Customer B (me)
You call me, Bell 1 pays CLEC for the termination.

In both cases, the TA96 was developed with the idea of
voice services in mind (IMO). Dial Up internet access
muddied the waters and the voip model is essentially
founded on the idea that a local call to an ISP or VOIP
provider is the same. Much more complicated, but hopefully
abbreviated enough to get the point across. The game would
certainly change if the local telephone company model
changed to mirror the cellular model (customer pays for
all outbound and inbound calls). We currently only pay for
outbound.

said by rradina See Profile :

I don't think Vonage is as different from POTS as folks think it is. The two differences are Vonage uses the Internet for the last mile (from the CLEC CO to your house) and because they can keep your call on the Internet and terminate it as close as possible to the destination number, they don't incur as many or any LD interconnet fees.
They don't incur any LD fees. Vonage isn't considered a Telephone Company (local or long distance). Vonage, in legal parlance, is considered an "information service provider". Similar to itunes or broadbandreports. BBR might charge us for access to this board, but it doesn't make them a long distance company. Vonage defines itself as a company that connects customers using ip voice services to each other. The telephone companies in this equation are CLECs such as Level 3. Level 3 does indeed charge Vonage for each call terminating to the public network, they take a cut between access rates and local interconnection rates generally speaking, a business that purely exists due to FCC action/inaction. See Level 3 financials and/or investor calls for more clarification on the fragility of this line of their business.

said by rradina See Profile :

I would guess a portion of the Vonage fee goes to the CLEC that owns the POTS number on behalf of Vonage. As a CLEC, they have infrastructure tied to the POTS system and pay interconnect fees just like an ILEC.
Exactly. Vonage is sort of the new LD company that pays someone to connect to a customer. The difference is that they pay someone (level 3) to pay someone (verizon) to connect to grandma, since she hasn't migrated to voip yet.

said by rradina See Profile :

Regardless, if VOIP was in some way not paying its weight, one would think the ILECs would be losing money hand over fist. Large corporations also use VOIP over their private networks to likewise deny the telco of revenue streams. If all this VOIP were ruining the POTS infrastructure, I would think the ILECs would be posting huge losses instead of using their massive war chests to plan mega mergers.
Large corporations pay for other services from the ILECs - i.e. ATM, Ethernet, special access, MPLS etc..the VOIP issue isn't about breaking the ILECs, it was about breaking the LD companies.

said by rradina See Profile :

I think VOIP destroyed the LD companies, not the POTS companies.
Now that the LD companies are going and all the POTS lines disconnect at what point do the ILECs start raising basic local connection costs higher? Same can be said for the Cable companies as more content becomes available over the internet. Or will both essentially collude to ensure any highly demanded service made available via the internet eventually become a part of their own offerings with subsequent blocking of degrading of competitors products?

Short - Long term, our voice will be voip provided by the same companies that we desire to leave. Abundant wireless spectrum will be the only effective competition but that may never happen for a number of reasons (money begets money principally).
xsiddalx

join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service

To be fair, there is a cost to call a Vonage number.

If the number is LD, a customer will pay LD charges.

If local, it is built into the local rate.

If it is made via a cell phone or another VOIP (internet based) provider, it generally won't matter.

The 6.50 charge doesn't cover termination or origination fees (there are both at the wholesale level for regulated telcos). The 6.50 charge is just an allocation from intercarrier rates (carrier to carrier compensation) to customers. It's complicated, but short order, the 6.50 is effectively a rate increase that the states can blame on the feds while keeping the local telephone rate as low as possible (my take on it at least).

But in the end, voip is cheap due to a multitude of FCC orders and lack of orders. It can all change on a dime. Vonage being subjected to USF fees for instance...go figure, they became subject to USF fees.

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by rradina See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

POTS lines can't compete with VOIP since VOIP uses the Bell network to finish a lot of calls. VOIP is not paying the true cost of phone calls. POTS is only a 10-12% biz, which is the corporate average.
So does POTS not pay the true cost of a call when it's made to my Vonage number?
There is no cost. That's why Vonage and VOIP is so cheap. No termination fees coming or going. If you can prove otherwise, let me know. But, that is the understanding of Net VOIP. POTS customers in FL pay a $6.50 FCC Access Charge (access to LD networks) and other hidden stuff in LD, which pays for the termination costs.

See 9 replies to this post

sporkme
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join:2000-07-01
Netcong, NJ

said by supergirl See Profile :

said by rradina See Profile :

said by supergirl See Profile :

POTS lines can't compete with VOIP since VOIP uses the Bell network to finish a lot of calls. VOIP is not paying the true cost of phone calls. POTS is only a 10-12% biz, which is the corporate average.
So does POTS not pay the true cost of a call when it's made to my Vonage number?
There is no cost. That's why Vonage and VOIP is so cheap.
That is bullshit, plain and simple.
xsiddalx

join:2005-03-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: If you can't offer a better product...sue

said by sporkme See Profile :

That is bullshit, plain and simple.
Not really.

Speculation on my part, but Vonage's business plan ain't long term. I guess I don't trust Citron after the same arbitrage play he profited from in Datek. Of course if it benefits us short time consumers but will become another one of those blighted "universal service fees" called corporate bankruptcy.

We all see those costs buried in our 1040s.
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX

Bad for the customer.

Before I switched to Vonage I paid 60 dollars a month for a plain POTS line.

Did you know VZ charges 4.60 for DTMF or you're stuck using rotary codes? Plus all the taxes and fees and USF charges etc etc.

Vonage with the full feature set only sets me back 30 dollars a month.

Sure you may want to say "YOu have to pay for internet access" I use the internet every day just like a utility.

Even covad with their Line Powered Voice is more expensive than vonage.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net
NYC Girl
Premium
join:2007-02-04
New York, NY
I would have gladly switched to their voice wing service but they suck so badddddddd, horrible reviews everywhere and anywhere there was a blog. It is cheaper than Digital Phone.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA

suffering irreparable harm

Really?

I doubt it. Vonage has actually caused Verizon to benefit callers with its Freedom America plan (unlimited calling).
By making Verizon compete, the consumer again, has choice. Either VoIP or POTS.

Besides, what about all the DSL companies that dried up thanks to the "increased databasing" by Telcos and then taking their customers with their own DSL? Judge should see who is calling the kettle black...

BTW, I dropped Vonage after two years due to poor VQ (likely due to Comcast). But it caused more hassle then savings. I went back to Verizon for the bundle which cost $15 more yet know I pick up that phone, no static, choppiness or drops.

"If you don't own the lines you use, you are at the line owner's mercy"

Pz_

join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN
clubs:

Re: suffering irreparable harm

I used to work for one of those DSL providers back in 2000. Every time we had to deal with the telco (Ameritech back then) they would drag their feet at every junction. Trying to delay or straight up sabotage the install. Then, afterwards would solicit the customer with their own (slower and more expensive) DSL offering. Of course all the "technical issues" that caused slow downs or prevented them from provisioning the circuit before were magically fixed, and fixed right away.

Sorry to see Vonage go, I don't use them but their existence is significant to the landscape.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

Re: suffering irreparable harm

.. you forgot to mention.. during that long and un-necessary and unfair delay in provisioning the circuit for you, they were also busy soliciting your customer with an "even better offer" resulting in your loosing a customer.

.. and people call cable evil. The phone company always has been, always will be, and just plain is the anti-Christ SCUM suckers of the earth! They will NEVER change.
--
"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-reitchous and lazy ... those who also never take the time to point out a good fortune when the opportunity presents itself. It says a lot about one's moral character." - Unknown

charlie3

@comcast.net

I had voice quality problems with vonage. Turned out to be a faulty moden what was dropping uploaded packets. Replacing the moden solved the problem. A few months later a sister of mine reported the same problem with vonage and replacing the modem completely cleared up her problem as well.
nasadude

join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

wouldn't swith to verizon

if vonage gets ordered to stop connecting to the PSTN, I sure as hell won't switch phone service to verizon. I will either get another VOIP provider or use my cell phone.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest

Re: wouldn't swith to verizon

said by nasadude See Profile :

or use my cell phone.
it's verizon, isn't it?
Nice Try

join:2003-04-17
Silver Spring, MD

Re: wouldn't swith to verizon

said by nasadude See Profile :

it's verizon, isn't it?
Too funny!

But I must say, I agree. I'll get another voip or use my cell phone instead (Cingular, or is that AT&T ... whatever).